Game suggestions

  • There needs to be significant changes before Sea of Thieves will ever have the playerbase it used to have.

    Elite Dangerous has nothing stopping anyone from opening fire on other players. Anywhere. At any time.

    But there are port authorities. They are decent pilots with decent ships and they come in teams. In that game I run a freighter. It isn't meant for dogfighting and certainly can't outrun the typical port authority ships. But even then, one on one, I can usually shoot my way out of a scenario. In a freighter. With no shields. Few weapons. No missiles, ECM, cloaking or anything aside from raw nerve, tenacity and stubbornness. Oh, and a 25mm chaingun.

    With Sea of Thieves the law seems to be "pirates do whatever they want whenever they want".

    Even from a historical standpoint this makes little sense. Pirates had a code of honor and were usually former soldiers themselves. They often resorted to piracy when contracts with their respective governments ran out and suddenly they were starving.

    From a narrative perspective this actually can potentially add a lot of content to the game.

    First, have port authorities. Even if they're a small team of sloops it'll force players to do more than "hur hur hur, I waited in port and pew pew with my big epeen". It forces strategy, team cohesion and critical thinking.

    Secondly, add something other than pirates for port authorities to protect. A civilization runs on shipments and supplies that aren't universal. NPC merchant ships would provide not only a new target for gains but also encourages teamwork if the fleets are protected well enough.

    For that point, assume a merchant vessel is carrying 20,000 gold in goods but is escorted by three galleons, two sloops and a brigantine. Any singular player vessel has nearly nothing to gain from attacking. But a skilled FLEET of players? Even just two or three sloops can easily get the drop on these guys, sail hard and snatch the treasure before the authorities can react. Suddenly there's a reason to get cooperating at least for a little while.

    Third, implement something that makes gold worth it. Right now the only thing gold is doing is "unlock these skins!!!!" And "go on more voyages!!!". This gets boring quickly.

    Add ship maintenance. Add ship upgrades. Maybe better sails, better cannons, reinforced hulls, etc. Add the need to repair more often due to time. Boards rot. Cannons rust. Sails tear and weather.

    Fourthly, add factions and the ability to have multiple ships of players in the same game. I have a team of five, including Siglei, who routinely play. But we always have to pick one person to exclude because the biggest ship is a four man ship.

    If we could do something like "make a faction by doing x, y, z and you guys are going to have a high chance of spawning into the game together" then suddenly you have even more reason to encourage cooperation between players.

    Suddenly, attacking that team that's turning in their loot isn't such a good idea when they might have six galleons in their fleet total. Or when Port Authorities can easily scuff up an unwary crew. Even if port authorities turns into the vendors not accepting "hot items" that were recently stolen it adds a huge chance for retaliation by the people that did all the work.

    I get the idea of thieves. But a world full of nothing but thieves becomes a chore. Many games die due to their player base rather than other causes.

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  • After nearly two years of hearing how this game is dying, you'd think players would have a clue by now what makes SoT so special.
    Servers get around twenty players spread out on about five or six ships. No safe zones with open rules of engagement.
    On a map big enough to get lost, or hide in.

    All of your suggestions are a great way to break the game, not sorry this is not your typical MMO.
    There is what you would expect the game could be, then there is the game that SoT actually is.
    I'm quite unconcerned as to what Elite Dangerous brings to the table here.

    Thanks for posting.

  • @rascaldees-ii “playerbase it used to have”

    With more and more people coming into the game, it having a steady spot on the rankings (players playing it) from xbox live numbers....

  • @rascaldees-ii
    Lets begin...

    There needs to be significant changes before Sea of Thieves will ever have the playerbase it used to have.

    I'm game for change, this game doesn't have my interest like it used too, but reading the rest of this, I'm pretty sure we disagree on how.

    Elite Dangerous has nothing stopping anyone from opening fire on other players. Anywhere. At any time.

    But there are port authorities. They are decent pilots with decent ships and they come in teams. In that game I run a freighter. It isn't meant for dogfighting and certainly can't outrun the typical port authority ships. But even then, one on one, I can usually shoot my way out of a scenario. In a freighter. With no shields. Few weapons. No missiles, ECM, cloaking or anything aside from raw nerve, tenacity and stubbornness. Oh, and a 25mm chaingun.

    Secondly, add something other than pirates for port authorities to protect. A civilization runs on shipments and supplies that aren't universal. NPC merchant ships would provide not only a new target for gains but also encourages teamwork if the fleets are protected well enough.

    This sounds like a hidden method to add a safe zone with port authorities. The first problem, is it doesn't really fit the theme with the games notion of no safe zones. The second, is that this isn't really feasible from a server load perspectives. According to Rare, we are already at peak ship count for ships, they are physically unable to add more ships because of how taxing they are on the server. Throw in the fact that you want AI defenders and more forms of taxing the server besides the ships simple doesn't help.

    With Sea of Thieves the law seems to be "pirates do whatever they want whenever they want".

    Even from a historical standpoint this makes little sense. Pirates had a code of honor and were usually former soldiers themselves. They often resorted to piracy when contracts with their respective governments ran out and suddenly they were starving.

    A quick google search demonstrates this as false, unless your source is Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean. Pirates code of honor seems like a romanticized notion attempting to detract from the truly horrendous actions these individuals did. At most you had very loose confederations of ships, but that's it. No real governing body.

    First, have port authorities. Even if they're a small team of sloops it'll force players to do more than "hur hur hur, I waited in port and pew pew with my big epeen". It forces strategy, team cohesion and critical thinking.

    Their is some great irony here, you would think the people would do some critical thinking and not fall for obvious ambushes. A mermaid announces the presence of players always. A critical thinker might be able to put two and two together. Your demeanor gives the presense of someone who keep falling for the ambushes. Our crew has fallen for one ambush, but we learned after it, maybe you should as well.

    Third, implement something that makes gold worth it. Right now the only thing gold is doing is "unlock these skins!!!!" And "go on more voyages!!!". This gets boring quickly.

    Add ship maintenance. Add ship upgrades. Maybe better sails, better cannons, reinforced hulls, etc. Add the need to repair more often due to time. Boards rot. Cannons rust. Sails tear and weather.

    This is lateral progression, and Rare has said no to this. This goes against the idea that all crews are equal, the only difference between crews is the experience that is between them. How is a new person supposed to compete against a fully decked ship with all these upgrades? They already don't have the funds to respond back accordingly, as well as not having the experience. Simple put, new/poor pirates are at an extreme disadvantage.

    Even if port authorities turns into the vendors not accepting "hot items" that were recently stolen it adds a huge chance for retaliation by the people that did all the work.

    You do see that you are trying to punish piracy in a Pirate game right?

    I get the idea of thieves. But a world full of nothing but thieves becomes a chore.

    Its almost as if their is a Sea of Thieves.

  • With Sea of Thieves the law seems to be "pirates do whatever they want whenever they want".

    It's sorta the point ....

    Rule 1 of Pirate Club: Pirates will be Pirates
    Rule 2 of Pirate Club: Adhere to the Pirate Code
    Rule 3 of Pirate Club: All is fair... as long as Rules 1 &2 are followed.

    There's a book about it :)

  • @rascaldees-ii

    Pirates do what they please. The players here are not former soldiers in real life (mostly, a few may be) or in the game. The Sea of Thieves in the lore is said to be a place hidden from the outside world. Few, if any, governments outside of it know of the region, and fewer still know how to get in. Entering a significant force through the passage in the Devil's Shroud is impossible. The area is a safe haven, with few rules which are more of an honorary code that most follow, bountiful treasure and no major governments.

    Port authorities wouldn't do much more than limit playstyles and limit entertainment. I've had times where our two galleons park next to each other and crew-to-crew duel just for the fun of it after turning in the treasure from a large battle. Port authorities would try to sink us both. Other strategies, such as setting traps at outposts, or even just catching up to someone midway through their selling of treasure, would all be stopped by any powerful (or weak, in some cases) port authority. Yes, outpost camping is considered a valid strategy. It's up to you to be on your guard about it. As for the outposts themselves, they are little more than outposts. They have no major amount of useful resource or treasure hoarded, and they trust the pirates who like the outposts to stop any who try to defeat them, as the outposts are essential in the way of life of the Sea of Thieves.

    The Sea of Thieves is widely considered an uncolonized land due to how overrun with pirates it is and the many other threats that are within it. The shopkeepers and others at the outposts live in ships or their shops, and the pirates who deliver resource for the Merchant Alliance support anything they end up needing (so really they should be failing). As stated earlier, larger governments and countries cannot enter the Sea of Thieves in the same way the pirates do, nor do many of them seem to wish to.

    Merchant vessels were given long ago. Commonly requested here we see:
    -Roaming merchant ships
    -Defended fortresses to siege
    -Fleets to battle in open sea
    -Bounty hunter ships which ambush and attack pirates
    All of these were granted by the skeletons, however players often don't find enough entertainment in that and so continue requesting a different form they'd also likely never do.

    Gold isn't meant to be used to gain an advantage. This is why we can't buy bigger cannons, or resource restocks, or ship repairs. It would be unfair to the new players who scrounge for every bit of gold they can and start with nothing. The game itself isn't meant to be played for the quests alone, the quests are just to push people to leave the outpost and move from place to place.

    Multiple ships in a server is interesting, but we'd need larger servers first. The game currently maxes out at 6, as there are that many outposts to start from and the map is built around this. When we get more map expansions we will get more ships. Also, for outpost vendors, they don't care who got the treasure there. They just care that they get it (Excluding the Merchants).

    The world is not full of nothing, there is much to do on your voyages. The game is a sandbox game, there's no direct storyline for you to follow. You can find lore, but you must explore for it or look to some of the other official sources. You are supposed to go out and be a pirate, in whatever way you want to. You want to have some navy thing and a code to follow? Make one! Go find some ship you can buy for some treasure to get a fleet, and play the game your way. And the playerbase isn't dying, it's continued to expand since day one. It's bigger than ever before.

  • @piratecraggy said in Game suggestions:

    With Sea of Thieves the law seems to be "pirates do whatever they want whenever they want".

    It's sort of the point ....

    Rule 1 of Pirate Club: Pirates will be Pirates
    Rule 2 of Pirate Club: Adhere to the Pirate Code
    Rule 3 of Pirate Club: All is fair... as long as Rules 1 &2 are followed.

    There's a book about it :)

    Must you be so frivolous with our secrets?

  • @rascaldees-ii

    I do not agree with any of your suggestions.

    This is a game where we are free to interact with other players in any way that we choose. There should not be any limitations or suggestions from within the game for me to behave a certain way.

    That means no safe zones and no penalties just because I chose to attack a ship. Remember the game you're playing...

  • @Rascaldees-II
    You suggested many different things with which I partially agree, partially disagree and partially need to think about ;-). So I try to explain it in more detail:
    the disagree first:

    • getting ship upgrades for gold: This would ruin one of the basic concepts of the game. If you can buy improvments for gold the rich pirates have better ships and can sink the poor ones more easily ... to become even richer and sink other pirates even more easily. There is already a discrepancy between PVPers and PVEers in the SoT community. It will become even worse with the possibility of 'pay to win', although paying means paying with ingame gold or doubloons. In SoT your success depends on your skill, your experience, not on the time you have been online to farm gold. The only thing I could imagine is to buy wood, cannonballs and fruits for gold. So the rich pirates can simply save some time by spending gold. I remember this was already suggested somewhere in this forum, but don't remember where.

    the agrees

    • having the option to connect to a specific server to join a group. Alternatively, forming a group or 'faction' on xbox live or somewhere else and connecting to the same server with the whole group/faction: I have the same problem with my friends that you have. We are about six people but do not have the possibility to connect to the same server. We always need to split the group somehow. That's really a pitty. I would love the option to connect to the same server with our whole group and playing with two ships. For me it would be even more fun to fight my friends than forming an alliance. Maybe RARE will find a way somehow in the future. But I already know what the critics will say: 'People will abuse this option to form big alliances and beat up other players.' For those who disagree here: There is already the option to form an alliance in the game. So why not forming an alliance with your friends? Think about it. There would also be a benefit for PVEers: If you sail with two ships (can also be two one-man sloops) and you are chased by a gallion you can trick your enemies by fighting them with one ship while saving the loot with the second. That gives some nice tactical opportunities.

    Last, the part where I still think about:

    • the port authorities: I think they might be a good idea to close the gap between PVPers and PVEers a bit. While there is still PVP possible on the open seas, there would be a safe zone at the outposts to sell the loot (according to the pirate codex). I just do not know how much effort this would be as it seems to be a major change of the game. And how can the port authorities distinguish between attackers and victims fast enough before the loot is gone?

    Cheers
    Mr. B.

  • I am not suggesting an overwhelming port authority nor am I suggesting the use of a port authority to make outposts effectively safe zones.

    What I am suggesting is giving the player base a chance to react to an ambush. Spawn camping ia common and most times I'm still in the loading screen as the enemy player shoots me in the face, killing me before I can even enter the game.

    I highly doubt any pirate just stands still to be shot in the face.

    And I'm not saying ALL ports should be locked out for the duration of x, y, z. Just the nearest port (or ports assuming equa-distant ports) or maybe just ports in a certain range.

    An example being you initiate PvP. All ports within 2 grid squares are now locked. This still provides plenty of opportunities for PvP as it doesn't even nearly cover a major portion of the map. There are many islands where people can have their PvP and much of the world is open ocean.

    As to a pirate code, I am not talking about a pirate's government. I am talking about the fact most pirates wouldn't steal from each other. They had unspoken rules and spoken rules. When you stole from another pirate you were usually hunted down. It was bad for business. Any pirate crew that became a turncoat on their own was shunned if anyone ever found out. And often times pirate ships didn't sail alone. They usually also had certain methods of communicating with their home territory when relatively close to them such as carrier pigeons. And yes, that was common. They adopted their use from the Navy who used them to send word back to their government in order to alert the governing body of an impending attack or successful mission since otherwise ships were horridly slow.

    Pirates were a LOT more complicated than this game portrays. I don't expect miracles. I don't expect no PvP ever within the entire history of the game.

    Furthermore, mermaids don't always spawn immediately. Often times for myself and my own crew it usually takes several minutes for them to appear even in open waters.

    And regarding the upgrades, I'm not saying "suddenly my cannons can punch twelve holes in a ship because I bought the upgrade". This doesn't even have to be costly. It could be "pick your cannon type, they're all free. This one has more range, these do a bit more damage, these fire and reload faster" while nerfing the individual qualities to make them fair and balanced. Maybe the high ranged cannona take a long time (relatively) to reload. Maybe the high damage cannons too.

    And supposedly the player count is increasing. I doubt that. Everyone I know that has ever played SoT has abandoned it in favor of other games. I would speculate these are people from lower income families that are getting the game long after post release who haven't experienced it. Eventually that is going to change assuming it's true.

    For clarification, the game is currently a mile wide but an inch deep.

  • @luciansanchez82 said in Game suggestions:

    Must you be so frivolous with our secrets?

    lol... I know... at this rate everyone will want to be a Pirate!

  • In Pac-Man you can eat little dot’s that allow you to eat ghosts. If Sea of Thieves doesn’t add ghosts or edible dots the game will die.

    Logic as applied per OP.

  • @mr-bavinsky Bump.

    As I am on mobile, this will need to be edited until such time as I have offered my full rebuttle. At such time it shall be marked with END.

    Regarding port authorities, it should be a relatively simple write to input a code with the following conditions. Keep in mind, my experience with coding is limited to Ladder Logic which is not used to write code for video games.

    If:
    Player fires weapon: true
    Then:
    Lock ports for X time
    If: Player boards ship (not theirs) and picks up treasure
    Then:
    Lock ports for X time
    If:
    Player attacks another in areas x, y, z
    Then:
    Port is locked for X time

    One potential solution of many. This doesn't negate PvP at outposts. It simply makes it harder and take more time.

    Regarding the purchasing of better ship equipment, this doesn't necessarily have to be a purchase. It could simply be a game option. If players are given the option to increase their ship's abilities in certain ways without needing anything it adds a lot more tactical sense to the game. And if all players have access to all upgrades, it's merely a matter of balancing those upgrades.

    Some players may want a ship that's as fast as possible while others want lumbering behemoths of unstoppable firepower and armor. Others might prioritize range and speed while sacrificing armor and overall firepower. Yet others may want a build as balanced as possible.

    It would, ultimately, still come down to skill at that point since everyone cam copy the build of another on the fly.

    Reinforcing the point of port authorities, this can be easily done as well.

    Instead of simply moving treasure from A to B a player that touches the treasure first gains ownership of it to their ship. Anyone that isn't from the ship that turns it in incures the treasure's worth as a bounty on their ship.

    By this, the game is providing the bounty. Not the players.

    Any player ship that sinks that ship gains that money from sinking them. There's nothing lost from stealing at that point but the people who were ambushed now have a very valid reason to hunt the ship down and cover their losses.

    Port authorities don't necessarily have to be OPFOR. They can merely be an administrative force that levies bounties which not only encourages PvP but gives it a purpose other than stealing loot.

    I would say that I don't think outposts should be 100% safe but also adding something like "the NPCs can be temporarily killed in the crossfire" means that suddenly you might accidentally shoot the guy you need to sell stuff to. And likewise people turning in loot can use that to their advantage and shoot the guy.

    If the guy knew my stuff was gotten by me and he was going to allow a sale after a theft, I'd probably shoot him just out of spite.

    END

  • @rascaldees-ii said in Game suggestions:

    An example being you initiate PvP...

    This is just one of the many reasons something like this will never work. Often times when my crew attacks another ship, the other crew technically initiates the actual fighting. All that we have done is boarded or attempted to board their ship, but they fired the first shot. How would the game determine who initiated the attack?

    It can't and it shouldn't. Any attempt to do this in any meaningful way would place large restrictions on the freedom of interaction with other players in the game, which is totally against the spirit of the game. Barring a few things, pirates in the Sea of Thieves are free to do whatever they want, whenever they want.

  • And to all the people saying things like "muh freedomz!". No. I'm not taking them away with anything I have suggested. I'm simply proposing consequences for actions.

  • @Rascaldees-II Please refrain from bumping threads, as it is a violation of our forum rules. Your post has been edited accordingly.

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  • How would this pvp lock system determine who the aggressor is in a ram? What if someone rams your ship and in order to stop them you hop over their ship to stop it, you would be locked.

  • @rascaldees-ii said in Game suggestions:

    @mr-bavinsky
    If:
    Player fires weapon: true
    Then:
    Lock ports for X time
    If: Player boards ship (not theirs) and picks up treasure
    Then:
    Lock ports for X time
    If:
    Player attacks another in areas x, y, z
    Then:
    Port is locked for X time

    Again demonstrating why this won't work. The first if/then scenario punishes me for defending myself against an attack. Because according to this "simple" rule if I fire my weapon in defense, now the port is locked to me.

    As for the second if/then scenario, this, among other things, punishes different crews that and are working together to unload a ship.

    Not to mention that the easiest way to steal a bunch of loot off of a ship is often just to sink it and there are many ways this can be done without firing a single shot.

    Also, there are already consequences in the game for players' actions. For PvE actions, the consequences are provided by the AI/environment. For PvP actions, the consequences are provided by the other players as they see fit. This is how it should be.

    If you really think these ideas don't limit the freedom that players have, then you haven't thought through the consequences with a complete understanding of the many different ways that people play this game.

  • @little-squash

    Also, there are already consequences in the game for players' actions. For PvE actions, the consequences are provided by the AI/environment. For PvP actions, the consequences are provided by the other players as they see fit. This is how it should be.

    Did you just look at me funny? Let the attack commence! Did you just call me a Poopybrain? This unjust action deserves retribution! What was that? Did you just say, "Good game?" How dare you treat me like a respectable opponent!

    I am the arbiter of my own justice, I don't need or want some mechanic doing it for me. (By the way this agreeing with you, only adding on)

  • I see so many posts like this on here, from people who can't accept that maybe Sea of Thieves just isn't for them and feel like it should be transformed beyond all recognition to satisfy them.

    Any number of those suggestions would make this a completely different game. Maybe wait for that game instead of asking for this one to be something it was never meant to be?

    Sea of Thieves is an excellent game, but it's not everyone's cup of tea. And that's okay.

  • Not to poke at your post but this game is not elite dangerous. This is a pirate game. The sea of thieves is in a shrouded. It is remote. It’s segregated from the real world. There is no authority. In elite dangerous space is colonized. There are galactic powers. Of course there is authority and law. I love both games but you can’t compare this to elite. They are very similar though. Both are shared world sandbox games. You see way less players in elite though mainly because it’s like a scaled down version of the galaxy. Many places to go,

  • @rascaldees-ii

    While I think Rare's idea for the game is a bit different than this, I love a few of the ideas you offer!

    I like the idea of NPC port authority ships, but do not think this will make it into the game, unfortunately.

    I love the idea of NPC merchant ships that offer some random prey on the seas. They could have unique items that are highly sought after, like that found on Skull Forts or Reaper's Chests, to encourage PVPVE encounters. And the idea of a convoy for fleet challenges is very interesting and welcome.

    I, too, think that some form of ship degradation would be interesting. Too many battles leaving your sails tattered and in need of repair is a nice idea. I also like the thought of something like barnacles needing a brief scrape off the hull of the ship to keep you moving at potential max speeds.

    As far as factions go, I have many friends who play the game who would like to see player factions introduced.

    Overall, some good ideas to offer. I have played Elite as well. While SoT has no intention to be a game like Elite or to give you the choice of being anything other than a Pirate/Thief, some of the additions would be interesting!

  • I use Elite Dangerous because in their basic fundamental concepts the games are identical. Both games are sandbox games with nothing limiting WHERE, WHEN AND HOW you do PvP. There are situations where it's not wise. People can and do dogfight INSIDE a station. I've done it. Just for kicks.

    As for the questions regarding how the outpost lockdown would work? I'm not sure. I'm bringing ideas to the table and so far no one has tried offering a compromise, alternative solutions or anything similar.

    As I said before, I don't think SoT outposts should be 100% safe. They should just be "safe enough" or annoying enough to add some real challenge to the 4 v 2 ambushes that are a constant.

    Elite Dangerous has less than 2% of space colonized and it launched over a decade ago.

    Or even better! Give the players the freedok to pick PvE servers. On those servers loot is locked to the first person to pick it up.

    Bam. Everyone keeps their PvP if they want it and the rest of us can opt out since no compromise can be achieved.

    Also the "arbiter of my own justice" argument doesn't apply if they steal your loot, sink your ship and immediately log out. Then you can do nothing.

    I even suggested a bounty system. Literally no other effects than if someone blaps your ship after you stole from people they get coin and the ship in question loses nothing.

  • @rascaldees-ii
    All of your ideas have already been addressed and denied by Rare.

  • You have not cited any evidence or sources to confirm that Sea of Thieves playerbase is shrinking. Without sources, it is a rumor and misleading.

  • Ultimately just like Rare doesn't have to address and listen or approve these ideas I don't need to source them.

    And by this I mostly mean you're not open to hearing my ideas. So why would I bother sourcing anything for you?

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