Sloop speed

@every-henry Sloop is faster directly into the wind if you put the sail flat and not left or right.

Of course, that hardly counts as "balance" since:

• You eventually run into red sea and since the change the attackers get your loot
• Running away is not fun, it's a game, that is supposed to be fun

@foambreaker , should the wind be steady , ok , but we know how the wind trades to make chaser's lives easier , let's say. Sloop should be faster in any conditions.

@callmebackdraft , I see this as a punishment to solo sloopers. Unfair , many new players start as solo.

@every-henry said in Sloop speed:

@callmebackdraft , I see this as a punishment to solo sloopers. Unfair , many new players start as solo.

Yes, the problems with grouping only aggravate the balance between ship types making new players basically fodder for sweaty vets.

The new play retention stats for this game must be just dismal.

@callmebackdraft said in Sloop speed:

@every-henry a smaller ship should never be faster it USED to be faster directly against wind but somehow something changed and the brig can catch up to it

what's odd about this is how it's slowly become worse over time

when it started it was very subtle so only a few solos that do a lot of solo v brig play were gonna notice it, brig needed to be high skill naval

now it's any tdm squad with whatever naval can just do the catch and harpoon strat lol. It's wild some of the combat situations I've seen in game where a brig's speed is just laughable.

In my own combat I started carrying more water and resetting way less because it became fairly pointless over all which doesn't bother me as an individual but it's pretty terrible for sloopers overall that are told to go against wind and that everything else is slower.

@every-henry The sloop needs to be the fastest ship into a crosswind. That would balance the point-of-sail advantage. There are four points of sail in the game.

Currently, the sloop is the fastest ship in a headwind and that is all. One point of sail.

A brigantine is faster than a sloop sailing into a crosswind, billowing in a crosswind, and in a tailwind. Three points of sail. A brigantine is faster than a galleon in a headwind and catching a crosswind. Two points of sail.

A galleon is faster than a sloop sailing into a crosswind, billowing a crosswind, and in a tailwind. Three points of sail. A galleon is faster than a brigantine sailing into a headwind and in a tailwind. Two points of sail.

If the sloop speed sailing into a crosswind was buffed to be the fastest ship, each ship would have two points of sail that make it faster than every other ship in the game, balancing the point of sail advantage.

I understand that the sloop turns the fastest, but with harpoon turns this is not really an advantage against skilled crews. Since the devs changed the red sea, they owe it to sloops to be able to run from the other ships in an equal number of points of sail.

@lordqulex

I mostly agree with you, just not your counting ;-)
You correctly say there are basicly 6 wind types, however you didn't realise that those crosswinds are from 2 sides, so they count double. Making the brig not faster in 3 winddirections, but in 5!

Also what matters is the difference in speed between the directions. In the 5 directions the brig is faster then the sloop, the difference is significant. But in that single direction the sloop is faster in, the difference is almost 0.

This is also why the sloop in reality is slower in every single direction, because the wind changes, so if a sloop wants to stay in the headwind, it has to make turns. A chasing brig can then just cut that corner and catch some crosswinds. Not only will he gain because of the shorter distance, but also because of the crosswinds where the brig has a far higher speed then that sloop (even a sloop in crosswinds is faster then a sloop that tries to stay in headwinds like that...). That difference is so big that even if you sailed straight into headwind for multiple minutes, a brig will already catch up with you in just a handfull of seconds. That is why a sloop is slower in every direction. A sloop can never run from a brig.

@super87ghost Oh my bad, you're right there are 4 points of sail. Whoopsie, fixed above.

I disagree with what you've said though, I've never been caught in a sloop sailing into a headwind. Tacking doesn't work in my experience, I've never seen a tacking brig catch a sloop.

@wolfmanbush "...what's odd about this is how it's slowly become worse over time..."

This was what prompted me to make the discussion about the devs disclosing changes. When changes are not openly disclosed it opens the door for unauthorized changes by "wildcats".

@foambreaker said in Sloop speed:

@wolfmanbush "...what's odd about this is how it's slowly become worse over time..."

This was what prompted me to make the discussion about the devs disclosing changes. When changes are not openly disclosed it opens the door for unauthorized changes by "wildcats".

In general tinkering without saying anything about it isn't an issue on smaller things imo but when it's something that leads to misleading or inaccurate advice/direction it becomes more of an issue.

Sloops being told to run against wind against brigs aren't being given bad advice but the outcome of that has been slowly changing over time so it's more of a "running against the wind might help but persistent brigs are very likely to catch up"

I've never understood why the brig has slowly become faster than the sloop against wind and why nothing has been done about it. It genuinely confuses me

@scurvywoof said in Sloop speed:

I've never understood why the brig has slowly become faster than the sloop against wind and why nothing has been done about it. It genuinely confuses me

I've long wondered if they were silently trying to do something about running/chasing scenarios

they brought in chain shots with high quantities, they did the red sea thing and anchor thing, that's my theory

galleons are fairly irrelevant because they are so rare, can't do much about same ship v same ship

they never said anything about merges after a few sinks either but it seems pretty clear to a lot of people that merges became much more common after 2/3 sinks

the brig speed never felt like a bug to me it felt like intentional tinkering over time

@pithyrumble said in Sloop speed:

I'm gonna say it.

Sloop v Brig had not changed.

Some Brig crews have gotten better. I can still outsail a mid tier Brig. With my legend kid we can outsail most brigs. Background didn't change, talent did. Sloops can still outrun a brig. Show me all the clips you want. Live game? I can still outrun brigs. I'd 1v2 you but Rare won't let me prove my point.

That being said. Boost sloop speed. I'd like to get more things done and make more brigs cry about it.

The crews that are relying on the brig speed are often tdm crews (you may see less of these on xbox servers I dunno) and they aren't often known for their naval which is why solos/smaller crews have sunk so many of them.

It's also going to depend on the scenario, if people take off once they spot a brig, sure they won't catch up at the distance any time soon

active battles with resetting, stationary strats, resupping, etc is where it shows

Well, like the last lady i have dated told me, size doesn't care, the only thing that cares is how you can use it. in Sot with a sloop you can destroy a Galleon if you want, you don't need to be faster to run away, the enemy ship doesn't appear from nowhere (unless if you are not on HG, in that case ok, can happens) so you can start moving for time and avoid to be catched

@every-henry This is a Ludacris suggestion. The sloop is already the best ship by far. Doing this would make the sloop extremely over powered even more than it already is.

IF anything the sloop should be nerfed in every way, and Galleon is the ONLY ship that needs a speed boost.

The game is already practically " Sea of Sloops " we don't need more incentives to have double gunning solos destroying every ship they encounter because the sloop can take water like no other ship and its turn radius and ability to have more speed against the wind, makes its tactical capability completely trump the brig or galleon.

@captaintibbz said in Sloop speed:

@every-henry This is a Ludacris suggestion. The sloop is already the best ship by far. Doing this would make the sloop extremely over powered even more than it already is.

IF anything the sloop should be nerfed in every way, and Galleon is the ONLY ship that needs a speed boost.

The game is already practically " Sea of Sloops " we don't need more incentives to have double gunning solos destroying every ship they encounter because the sloop can take water like no other ship and its turn radius and ability to have more speed against the wind, makes its tactical capability completely trump the brig or galleon.

The game is "sea of sloops" for many reasons, maintaining larger crews can be a pain, a bunch of voices during a session can be a pain.

The only larger ships that "double gunning solos" are taking out are crews that don't repair their boat, that aren't coordinated, tdm crews that sacrifice their boat, or people that are more focused on getting a screen shot than winning a fight if a well known SoT content creator is involved.

Skilled crews that are taking a fight serious are going to win again a solo sloop unless something goes very very randomly wrong against them.

@wolfmanbush All true, sloop still needs to be nerfed.

@captaintibbz said in Sloop speed:

@wolfmanbush All true, sloop still needs to be nerfed.

Personally I think scaling based on crew size makes things more interesting than general nerfs/buffs

The thing this whole discussion is missing is that even if the sloop is faster, that does not constitute balance between ships. Being able to run until you hit the red sea, sink and the chaser gets your loot is not balance and it is not fun.

@foambreaker said in Sloop speed:

The thing this whole discussion is missing is that even if the sloop is faster, that does not constitute balance between ships. Being able to run until you hit the red sea, sink and the chaser gets your loot is not balance and it is not fun.

It opens up more plays which allow people to express and exercise their situational awareness and strats. Losing chasers during cat and mouse scenarios, drop selling, these are valid adventure plays and can be exciting situations.

@wolfmanbush said in Sloop speed:

@foambreaker said in Sloop speed:

The thing this whole discussion is missing is that even if the sloop is faster, that does not constitute balance between ships. Being able to run until you hit the red sea, sink and the chaser gets your loot is not balance and it is not fun.

It opens up more plays which allow people to express and exercise their situational awareness and strats. Losing chasers during cat and mouse scenarios, drop selling, these are valid adventure plays and can be exciting situations.

I wouldn't call that situational awareness, more like luck.

Since you can only sail dead into the wind, things like running into the fog, or a storm, are luck since there may not be fog or a storm upwind.

@foambreaker said in Sloop speed:

@wolfmanbush said in Sloop speed:

@foambreaker said in Sloop speed:

The thing this whole discussion is missing is that even if the sloop is faster, that does not constitute balance between ships. Being able to run until you hit the red sea, sink and the chaser gets your loot is not balance and it is not fun.

It opens up more plays which allow people to express and exercise their situational awareness and strats. Losing chasers during cat and mouse scenarios, drop selling, these are valid adventure plays and can be exciting situations.

I wouldn't call that situational awareness, more like luck.

Since you can only sail dead into the wind, things like running into the fog, or a storm, are luck since there may not be fog or a storm upwind.

People focused on the "spite" red sea plays but a lot of it was because that's eventually where the wind lead and the reason people didn't have much choice is because "against the wind" is a lot different in reality of gameplay than it is on paper. Chasers stayed close enough or in some cases gained enough to where it was largely just prolonged stalemate scenarios until the red sea.

If there is gonna be an against the wind scenario then it is worth looking at when it comes to Rare's apparent interest in shaking up things in the game, imo.

@unleet1 Plus, lets not forget, it is a GAME that is supposed to be FUN. Running with no real hope of escape is unfun.