Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November

  • @musicmee said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @itz-majman THIS 100%

    They were never gonna be the fight you wanted in High Seas or have the loot, flag, orb (etc) you so very much crave... so let them live in their safe spaces.

    When the time comes they will move over... And if they don't you'll never know, the server will still be full of up to X boats anyway.

    I am actually kind of impressed with such an honest take by a moderator. Usually we get canned responses from mods regarding this topic, so thanks for being a breath of fresh air.

    And honestly, it is a correct take. There are people who will never touch high seas. I would rather them play in a boosted SS than never play at all.

  • @blue-sfumato

    I am actually kind of impressed with such an honest take by a moderator. Usually we get canned responses from mods regarding this topic, so thanks for being a breath of fresh air.

    There are only a handful (and even that is being generous) of mods that would reply in this manner on a SS/PvE related topic. The rest disappeared from the map the moment Drew made the announcement. What a funny little coincidence, eh?

    I don't even need to create a "I told you so" post. They know, and that's sufficient for me. xD

    @Musicmee

    And if they don't you'll never know, the server will still be full of up to X boats anyway.

    If only more people could understand this, that servers cannot become "empty" due to how servers (more precisely - merging) function.

  • @musicmee said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @itz-majman THIS 100%

    They were never gonna be the fight you wanted in High Seas or have the loot, flag, orb (etc) you so very much crave... so let them live in their safe spaces.

    When the time comes they will move over... And if they don't you'll never know, the server will still be full of up to X boats anyway.

    Sure, true for people who didn't play on High Seas and didn't want to have 30% gold value so tehy're not playing SoT at all.

    But with increase of loot payout on Safer Seas, more people who now are playing (reluctantly perhaps) on High Seas will choose Safer Seas (at least for their PvE sessions). If this increase in players is high enough, this would make the average crew on Higher Seas more PvP oriented as those that move to Safer Seas were more inclined to stay away from other crews on the server or more inclined to form alliance &c.

    Which will be nice for players actively seeking PvP, but less so for PvPvE players when their encounters with other (PvP seeking) crews will increase.
    Speaking for myself, in my experience when solo 1 in 10 sessions or so where I'll be in a fight I'd rather had avoided (but that risk is one I'm ready to take); if that would change into 5 out of 10 for example, that would decrease the fun of sailing around and getting stuff done and probably will having me playing less solo.
    Other players when confronted with increasing "sink chance" will perhaps move to Safer Seas (or play less or not at all), making the High Seas on average more dangerous &c.

    It's why PvPvE oriented players are against introducing PvE servers and the more Safer Seas will be like more of a pure PvE server, the worse it gets for them on High Seas.

    For people saying this is "anti-Safer Seas", no: not at all.
    Safer Seas was great for new players to get familiar with non-PvP possibilities of the game, great for families who rather not have their kid(s) be confronted with possible toxic crews &c and it needs a certain amount of restrictions to incentivive other people to play on High Seas.

  • I think the changes are still fair and balanced considering the load of incentives still remaining in HS, plus the rep/gold balance cap are still reasonable enough. As long as players are happy all around, I still support the devs decision whatever they think feels best. (Current season troubles also probably warranted throwing a bone to players too).

    I agree with @Lem0n-Curry though, the PVEVP players will now see more aggressive players in their sessions and it will now skew the balance in favor of a more PVP-focused adventure, where there was already a good balance in place. We will see how things go, maybe hourglass will lose it's raison d'être?

    Bit disappointed to see you push the "easy pray craving" narrative though @Musicmee, what if "they" are not the fight or loot I crave, but rather the fellow mellow players I appreciated having around to keep encounters, motivations and behaviors varied and overall server aggressiveness balanced?

    Anywho, I am pretty sure there is enough motivations for people to have fun and whether people decides to leave SS or not, better having players that play there than not at all. Personally I will still play both sides for the same reasons I used to, carrots or not!

  • @r3vanns said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @blue-sfumato

    I am actually kind of impressed with such an honest take by a moderator. Usually we get canned responses from mods regarding this topic, so thanks for being a breath of fresh air.

    There are only a handful (and even that is being generous) of mods that would reply in this manner on a SS/PvE related topic. The rest disappeared from the map the moment Drew made the announcement. What a funny little coincidence, eh?

    I don't even need to create a "I told you so" post. They know, and that's sufficient for me. xD

    It always depends on the nature of the posts; tone-deaf threads beating a dead horse are met with an equally copy-pasted answers. It is indeed good to have moderators that have different opinions and takes though, forums shouldn't be echo chambers as long as rules are followed!

    @Musicmee

    And if they don't you'll never know, the server will still be full of up to X boats anyway.

    If only more people could understand this, that servers cannot become "empty" due to how servers (more precisely - merging) function.

    Would be equally nice if people understood the server composition aspect as well, it's not a matter of having an empty servers, but rather balancing the player types amongst those X boats. 2-3 boats doing their things, events voyages etc + 2-3 boats doing pvp is cool, 5 reapers and 1 boat wanting to do their things will push them even more towards SS and there is no more balance.

    Thats pretty much the reasoning of PVEVP players, not the whole "punching down and easy targets" narrative.

    But again, having good incentives like keeping captaincy, Athena/Reaper activities and rep should be interesting enough to have all kind of players try HS out too.

    I am of course expecting to see the further pushing of goalposts and more threads asking for all these incentives to be brought to SS again. Some mods sure will have there cheat sheet of replies at the ready, until the next seasonal emergency at least :P

  • @BloodyBil

    Pushing "easy pray craving" narrative is very often actually valid though. I'm not saying all the PvEvP are players like this. I'm saying many that are so adamantly complaining about it are like this, and that's a big difference. I'm not saying nor even implying you are falling into that second category, please don't get me wrong.

    @lem0n-curry

    Who ACTIVELY seeks PvP in the open seas the most, with a living and breathing PvP mode (HG) available? Apart from some people who do it just for a few giggles and fun - people who are not confident enough/not good enough for HG streaks.

    And let's not pretend this is not the case. Because ppl who actually love PvP mainly and/or are good at it, are spending time in HG, rather then sailing around, searching for players just to see them endlessly run away from them.

    By saying PvEvP part of the seas is gonna be more dangerous - for who's gonna be more dangerous? For niche players that I mentioned - the ones not good enough for HG, but good enough for attacking new players/weaker targets, because now they'll be running into same type of player. That's not more dangerous, that's fair.

    In that case, I'll be happy to give the same backhanded advice people are giving to PvE crowd - get good/it's sea of thieves not sea of friends.

    Players who don't want a fight, will run away/server hop. The same way they have been doing so far, as these were the very same suggestions you were telling them (if they don't want to fight, to learn how to run away). Nothing stops you as well to keep hopping until you get into a more chill server, with people who do not actively seek PvP in the sandbox (both PvE and PvEvP crowd).

    This SS change means nothing at the end of the day, as people will "adapt" the same way they've been doing it so far.

  • @bloodybil

    It always depends on the nature of the posts; tone-deaf threads beating a dead horse are met with an equally copy-pasted answers. It is indeed good to have moderators that have different opinions and takes though, forums shouldn't be echo chambers as long as rules are followed!

    Exactly. The same way I respond to other people's thoughts/replies depending on the tone and/or content of their message. It would be unfair of me to expect different from the others, including mods.

    The issue is, some mods kept spamming those same copy-pasted answers and locking threads even on topics where people were actually trying to explore and discuss beyond the "tone-deaf threads beating a dead horse", simply because they didn't like them, or didn't even bother to read what those threads were trying to explore. That's the only part I have against them.

  • @r3vanns said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @BloodyBil

    Pushing "easy pray craving" narrative is very often actually valid though. I'm not saying all the PvEvP are players like this. I'm saying many that are so adamantly complaining about it are like this, and that's a big difference. I'm not saying nor even implying you are falling into that second category, please don't get me wrong.

    @lem0n-curry

    Who ACTIVELY seeks PvP in the open seas the most, with a living and breathing PvP mode (HG) available? Apart from some people who do it just for a few giggles and fun - people who are not confident enough/not good enough for HG streaks.

    • People who don't like playing HG every session or all of the session;
    • People who like to get more than some allegiance reputation and perhaps a flag if they win a fight;
    • People who like to get into a fight about a fort, fleet &c

    You know, the things that the PvPvE players have been doing since SoT started, before Arena and/or HG.
    The High Seas are a PvPvE environment; not all players who like PvP or are willing to take the risk of encountering possible violent other crews start up Hourglass.

    And let's not pretend this is not the case. Because ppl who actually love PvP mainly and/or are good at it, are spending time in HG, rather then sailing around, searching for players just to see them endlessly run away from them.

    Nope, not true.

    By saying PvEvP part of the seas is gonna be more dangerous - for who's gonna be more dangerous? For niche players that I mentioned - the ones not good enough for HG, but good enough for attacking new players/weaker targets, because now they'll be running into same type of player. That's not more dangerous, that's fair.

    Not niche players at all. It's the type of players Rare created SoT for.
    We (and I suspect most PvPvE players) do not go looking around for new or weaker players, sure they cross our path, just like every other type of player on Higher Seas.

    In that case, I'll be happy to give the same backhanded advice people are giving to PvE crowd - get good/it's sea of thieves not sea of friends.

    SoT is for PvPvE; people only wanting PvE can choose to play another game or enjoy Safer Seas with certain limitations, as there is less risk, tehre should be less rewards.
    I already said earlier in this topic, 100% for new(er) players is fine by me.

    Players who don't want a fight, will run away/server hop. The same way they have been doing so far, as these were the very same suggestions you were telling them (if they don't want to fight, to learn how to run away). Nothing stops you as well to keep hopping until you get into a more chill server, with people who do not actively seek PvP in the sandbox (both PvE and PvEvP crowd).

    More hopping == less fun, therefor less playtime &c.

    This SS change means nothing at the end of the day, as people will "adapt" the same way they've been doing it so far.

    Depends on the "success" of the changes made - the more people play on Safer Seas instead of High Seas will likely have adverse effects on High Seas.

  • @Lem0n-Curry

    People who don't like playing HG every session or all of the session;
    People who like to get more than some allegiance reputation and perhaps a flag if they win a fight;
    People who like to get into a fight about a fort, fleet &c

    "People who don't like playing HG every session or all of the session" - good. You have other exclusive PvEvP players like you're claiming to be yourself to still run into
    "People who like to get more than some allegiance reputation and perhaps a flag if they win a fight" - still the same exclusive PvEvP players I mentioned above
    "People who like to get into a fight about a fort, fleet &c" still the same exclusive PvEvP players

    You know, the things that the PvPvE players have been doing since SoT started, before Arena and/or HG.
    The High Seas are a PvPvE environment; not all players who like PvP or are willing to take the risk of encountering possible violent other crews start up Hourglass.

    Again, you still have the same strict exclusive PvEvP crowd like yourself. Those devoted PvEvP enjoyers that follow Rare's vision by the book. Nothing to do with SS, nor exclusive PvP players. Because, you're NEVER planning to move to the either side. Right? Right....? :D

    Nope, not true.

    Top notch argument! You got me.

    Not niche players at all. It's the type of players Rare created SoT for.
    We (and I suspect most PvPvE players) do not go looking around for new or weaker players, sure they cross our path, just like every other type of player on Higher Seas.

    Again, you (most PvEvP) players will luckily remain devoted to Rare's vision and will be there for each other to keep the balance. SS exclusives will remain in SS (as they anyways would), but other ones will join you after they feel comfortable (and still be easier target for your core PvEvP base) and will be enough of them to keep HS fresh.

    SoT is for PvPvE; people only wanting PvE can choose to play another game or enjoy Safer Seas with certain limitations, as there is less risk, tehre should be less rewards.
    I already said earlier in this topic, 100% for new(er) players is fine by me.

    Exactly! PvE players ARE enjoying SS, and now they're gonna enjoy it just a little bit more. Still nothing to do with HS.

    More hopping == less fun, therefor less playtime &c.

    Great that you realize how unfun it was for people more leaning into PvE.


    TL:DR - your fear is that your so called PvEvP base devoted to Rare's vision, might not be so devoted, and could actually slip to SS because they do not want balance between PvP and PvE, but are actually mostly into PvE.

    That means they were never so devoted in the first place, and would actually prove how big portion of the actual playerbase is more for pure PvE. It automatically dismantles the "most of the playerbase is PvEvP" theory you people keep saying.

    If SS 100% gold alone, which anyways doesn't mean anything at certain point in time (after you've bought everything), is still enough to make your fellow PvEvP-ers switch completely - Rare should start thinking if they should actually make fully fledged PvE servers, because you're not the majority anymore, as you claim to be.

    If not, well... nothing for you to worry about.

  • @r3vanns said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @Lem0n-Curry
    TL:DR - your fear is that your so called PvEvP base devoted to Rare's vision, might not be so devoted, and could actually slip to SS because they do not want balance between PvP and PvE, but are actually mostly into PvE.

    That means they were never so devoted in the first place, and would actually prove how big portion of the actual playerbase is more for pure PvE. It automatically dismantles the "most of the playerbase is PvEvP" theory you people keep saying.

    Nope, PvPvE players need a certain balance on the server they're on. This includes crews that avoid other crews and prefer to do PvE content with better reward than 30%. If those leave to sail in Safer Seas, this will disrupt the balance on High Seas.

    If, in an extreme case, the other 5 crews are looking for a crew (prefarable with loot on board) to sink, this will become a PvP server instead of a PvPvE server. For PvPvE players there needs to be a chance to do PvE content and possibly get away from other crews, which is a lot more difficult if all other crews on the server are looking for a fight.

    Instead of people posting using hyperbole about getting attacked "5 seconds after leaving an outpost" or "not even being able to turn in their meager foul bounty skull", those statements might become "trueish".

    If SS 100% gold alone, which anyways doesn't mean anything at certain point in time (after you've bought everything), is still enough to make your fellow PvEvP-ers switch completely - Rare should start thinking if they should actually make fully fledged PvE servers, because you're not the majority anymore, as you claim to be.

    For every PvPvE player the balance they'll want to handle will be different, some might want to be able to have 9 out of 10 sessions to be worthwhile (regarding loot) or not be running away, some might be happy to have only 1 in 10 and loads in the middle. Some might like to do one voyage and then spend the rest of the session trying to stay out of the hands and balls of more violent crews.
    Depending on that preferred balance they might move to Safer Seas or stop playing all together - disappointed in the course Rare took the game they liked playing before.

    If not, well... nothing for you to worry about.

    As seen in this topic (and previously posts regarding Safer Seas), people are wanting to have even less limitations in Safer Seas; an IMO drastic change like this will open the way in even more demands regarding change - and therefor even more issues regarding balancing on the High Seas. The statement that Rare wants to have limitations so people are incentivived to play Higher Seas becomes less believable.

  • @lem0n-curry

    Nope, PvPvE players need a certain balance on the server they're on. This includes crews that avoid other crews and prefer to do PvE content with better reward than 30%. If those leave to sail in Safer Seas, this will disrupt the balance on High Seas.

    If, in an extreme case, the other 5 crews are looking for a crew (prefarable with loot on board) to sink, this will become a PvP server instead of a PvPvE server. For PvPvE players there needs to be a chance to do PvE content and possibly get away from other crews, which is a lot more difficult if all other crews on the server are looking for a fight.

    Instead of people posting using hyperbole about getting attacked "5 seconds after leaving an outpost" or "not even being able to turn in their meager foul bounty skull", those statements might become "trueish".

    The "extreme" case happens with everything else. If you don't want to be a part of it, you can server hop.

    Regarding hyperboles you mentioned - the same rule apply. Because, we are talking about extremes. Server hop, as you have this feature in the game like everyone else. Rare put it there for a reason.

    Extremes are never painting the picture of majority. Most extreme PvPers, and most extreme PvEers are not the majority (at least according to what people claim, that is).

    As seen in this topic (and previously posts regarding Safer Seas), people are wanting to have even less limitations in Safer Seas; an IMO drastic change like this will open the way in even more demands regarding change - and therefor even more issues regarding balancing on the High Seas. The statement that Rare wants to have limitations so people are incentivived to play Higher Seas becomes less believable.

    I'm on your side with this one - I'll be the first to tell people to stop being greedy, the same thing I'm doing with whatever nonsense/entitled ask on forums that I deem completely unreasonable.

    I stand firm on the ground that Emissaries should NEVER be allowed in SS. End of the story. With this change to base gold, I'm also leaning into being against Sovereigns/Captaincy in SS as well, but it's not the hill I'd be willing to die on. On the other hand, I'm absolutely against all the commendation & progress on Captaincy. Just not that much on the cosmetic parts.

    Incentives for HS must remain, same as a healthy risk & reward balance.

    100% base SS rewards are still not shaking that up. Emissaries go up to 150% bonus, you have G&G, Rush, the more lucrative stuff like FotD, BB, etc, none of which are available in SS (nor they should be).

    For every PvPvE player the balance they'll want to handle will be different, some might want to be able to have 9 out of 10 sessions to be worthwhile (regarding loot) or not be running away, some might be happy to have only 1 in 10 and loads in the middle. Some might like to do one voyage and then spend the rest of the session trying to stay out of the hands and balls of more violent crews.
    Depending on that preferred balance they might move to Safer Seas or stop playing all together - disappointed in the course Rare took the game they liked playing before.

    That's why many others including myself believe Rare forcing mashup of PvP and PvE without any safe space was a bad design idea from the start. The only difference why you'd lose your "balance" now (as in more people moving and staying on SS) is not cause people didn't want to do it (already) a long time ago, but simply because they didn't have the option.

    This would mean there was hardly ever a real balance you're trying to describe. I'm not debating Rare's intent and the ideology you guys are sharing with them, I'm saying that in such case reality might be very different then what was initially aimed at. Or the playerbase was actually really PvEvP oriented back then... but times change, ideas change, needs change, and MAYBE that initial ideology/playerbase is not the case anymore.

    Only Rare has actual stats to back it up. We can only discuss and guess here, until they make anything public.

    Strict PvE crowd was running away, hopping, scuttling, you name it - actively avoided any type of PvP, from the moment this game got released (not just as of recently) because they didn't have better options. Looking from that perspective, it was still not balanced properly even back then, because why would anyone actually playing by Rare's playbook keep doing this over and over. Otherwise, even now, there shouldn't be any fear of balance being shaken up to such a degree that it affects the main mode.


    All I'm saying is... let them cook haha. And see how this plays out, and what majority really wants. I still believe this is not gonna impact HS, as long as majority of the playerbase is actually PvEvP minded (maybe even if they're not the majority).

  • @wolfmanbush said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @the-old-soul800 said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    Until Safer Seas allows all content, especially captained ships, and without a rep cap (slower rep & gold gains is fine), it's existence is just an insult.

    There is a part of Safer Seas that is just flat out an accessibility mode. Some with anxiety or trauma or whatever their personal experiences may be can literally play SoT because it exists.

    You don't get to call it an accessibility mode when it prevents you from accessing content you may want to do.
    An accessibility mode makes it easier for a person with given issues to access and complete things they otherwise couldn't. It does not remove that content.
    An accessibility mode would allow you to do FotD, sail the Blade, use a captained ship, and everything else.
    Calling Safer Seas an accessibility mode when it blocks certain content is like calling removing subtitles an accessibility option for the deaf.

  • @the-old-soul800 said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @wolfmanbush said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @the-old-soul800 said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    Until Safer Seas allows all content, especially captained ships, and without a rep cap (slower rep & gold gains is fine), it's existence is just an insult.

    There is a part of Safer Seas that is just flat out an accessibility mode. Some with anxiety or trauma or whatever their personal experiences may be can literally play SoT because it exists.

    You don't get to call it an accessibility mode when it prevents you from accessing content you may want to do.
    An accessibility mode makes it easier for a person with given issues to access and complete things they otherwise couldn't. It does not remove that content.
    An accessibility mode would allow you to do FotD, sail the Blade, use a captained ship, and everything else.
    Calling Safer Seas an accessibility mode when it blocks certain content is like calling removing subtitles an accessibility option for the deaf.

    The game still needs to pursue balance with the foundation that it has. The only way to offer a quality multiplayer experience in a game like this is to commit to balancing risk/reward.

    To the people that struggle with the harshness of what the internet is capable of, in general, and in gaming, it is a form of accessibility. Having the freedom to sail around and explore and escape and chill without harsh mic/text encounters from random people allows some people to play the game.

    Mental health is health and health is a part of everything we do, including gaming. A low risk/lower reward design allows some to play a game they couldn't play before (without a lot of stress).

    I know people that use safer seas (without any issues about the balancing) because it allows them to do something they enjoy without being subjected to not only toxicity but the fear of encountering toxicity. It provides access to this adventure game for some.

  • I understand why they want to encurage transition from Safer Seas to High Seas as intended gameplay is a blast.
    I honestly think that if somebody don't like it then it is perhaps not a game for him and pushing for change of working model of game is quite strange behavior.

    That said I really don't care about Safer Seas, and folks who enjoy it. Proposed changes of 100% gold and lower reputation limits are probably good balance. And If they happy its ok for them.

    I don't think that Higher Seas will be hurt in that way, if eny maybe little bit rougher for new crews.

    But for average pvpve player with some experience or just being ok with sinking (like me) there will be no change.

  • Personally, I'm happy about this change, which was inevitable, and I'm sure there will be more in the future. I predicted it on this forum.
    However I must say something about some of the responses:
    We, here, the players who post, respond on the forum, it represents only a minority of players. The decisions we make are undoubtedly intelligent decisions based on the data available in the game.
    Except that we don't have this data, and I'm surprised that some people dare to speak on behalf of everyone...

    I must confess, too, that I appreciate the change from gold winnings to safer seas, for one simple reason: console players who don't pay a subscription fee won't, at least, be penalized in this respect.
    Basically, we need to think globally and stop believing we're the center of attention...

  • @zeyrniyx
    Exactly as I stated before:

    Only Rare has actual stats to back it up. We can only discuss and guess here, until they make anything public.

    Until I see the actual numbers of the current percentage of players in HS and SS, and how many players are leaning into PvP, PvEvP and PvE, nobody on the forum can claim anything.

    With that said, at the same time I still wonder why Rare actually doesn't show real numbers to back up some decisions or claims? I'm not saying we're entitled to it, far from it. But the question still stands, cause some other gaming companies do this. Especially around controversial topics.

    Even now for example, Drew had an opportunity to say what they actually saw within a year of SS existence, that lead them to make this change. But he didn't. Saying they realized it was too punishing, still doesn't explain what actually pushed them to backtrack on what they said. Most of the PvE community said from the start that it's too punishing, you don't need any stats for that. Few glances on forums, reddit and other channels would be more than enough.

    As long as they keep NOT doing it, discussions like this one will keep reappearing. Not just regarding SS, but for other "hot" stuff as well.

    I wish they were more transparent. Their own community would appreciate it, as at least some decent portion of forum (and in-game) dramas could be avoided that way.

  • It is true though, that HS needs to have more features in order to attract player stepping out of SS. I will always agree with that. I dare even to say, that after this 100% change to the gold income for SS, Captained ships/Sovereign shouldn't get added to SS, because then there is really a high chance the majority will never step outside of SS. Like, ever.

    If the majority would stay in SS then make SS have the same things as HS. Your saying that a majority of the player base doesn't like PVP while at the same time saying the devs shouldn't cater to the majority. Im still of the opinion that HS and SS should be the same and Live events, Gold and glory, etc, should be only HS with new commendations for only HS. Have everything else merge hell even do a 1.25 or 1.5x multiplier for HS but don't limit SS because you specifically don't like it

    @wolfmanbush said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @the-old-soul800 said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    Until Safer Seas allows all content, especially captained ships, and without a rep cap (slower rep & gold gains is fine), it's existence is just an insult.

    There is a part of Safer Seas that is just flat out an accessibility mode. Some with anxiety or trauma or whatever their personal experiences may be can literally play SoT because it exists.

    Adventure is for everyone and because of Safer Seas it is available to more people in SoT.

    It doesn't take full rewards to deliver a quality experience to many of the people that sail there.

    I only play high seas and I don't have everything in the game and never will. Not having everything is just a part of life.

    Then why is it marketed as a PVE mode when a majority of the game is not achievable in it

    "Adventure is for everyone" unless you like playing solo or only PVE cause you dont get to level up factions, emissary flags, Athena, captained ships

    ah yes a "quality experience' that ends when you realize you are penalized for playing SS

    That last part is partially true but not having and not being able to have are 2 different things

  • @nullvoid4558
    You don't get me. Unlike people in this discussion who know how regular I was on any SS topic, defending pro-PvE community. I'm still one of these who wouldn't mind separate accounts/progression for SS and HS, just as an example.

    First off, I'm a big time supporter of SS. Second thing, I'm a big time supporter of the variety of options.

    You jumped into this whole discussion, sticking to one post only, without seeing all the previous ones that I've made.

    I never said that a majority of players don't like PvP. This whole discussion is based on "IFs", and I was debating people here on their "IFs". If you've read it, you wouldn't state such nonsense completely out of place.

    Go read all of my comments and, then get back with some context. Until then, I'm def not gonna waste my time for a cherrypicked reply. If @Lem0n-Curry had nerves to go toe-to-toe arguments with me (which I actually respect very much and appreciate, because I know I'm pain in the *** with anything PvE related), so can you.

    PS.

    Then why is it marketed as a PVE mode when a majority of the game is not achievable in it

    It's not marketed as a PvE mode. It's marketed as an extended tutorial, or a safe space (usually for families). Rare NEVER used the term PvE in relation to SS. Go google.

    Would I love having PvE servers? Yes.
    Would it affect HS? Definitelly.

    Just because I'd love pure unlocked PvE experience, it doesn't mean it wouldn't affect and potentially harm the main community that's been playing this game for several years before me. Let alone till SS introduction.

    Being entitled is gonna get you nowhere on this forum mate.

  • Please avoid engaging in personal arguments and derailing the topic of the thread. It is fine to debate the content of the post, and the viewpoints therein, but disrespecting any of your fellow pirates personally is against the pirate code, and our forum rules.

  • @r3vanns said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @nullvoid4558
    You don't get me. Unlike people in this discussion who know how regular I was on any SS topic, defending pro-PvE community. I'm still one of these who wouldn't mind separate accounts/progression for SS and HS, just as an example.

    I never thought of separate accounts or progression for SS and HS. I think that is a good idea aslong as it syncs for esisting players ie your progression gets duplicated so you dont need to start from scratch if this did happen

    First off, I'm a big time supporter of SS. Second thing, I'm a big time supporter of the variety of options.

    As am I tbh I just want a good PVE mode

    You jumped into this whole discussion, sticking to one post only, without seeing all the previous ones that I've made.

    Correct I saw a post that I could leave my take on so I did

    I never said that a majority of players don't like PvP. This whole discussion is based on "IFs", and I was debating people here on their "IFs". If you've read it, you wouldn't state such nonsense completely out of place.

    This misunderstanding is on me as I read this "because then there is really a high chance the majority will never step outside of SS. Like, ever." and seem to have gotten the wrong idea

    Go read all of my comments and, then get back with some context. Until then, I'm def not gonna waste my time for a cherrypicked reply. If @Lem0n-Curry had nerves to go toe-to-toe arguments with me (which I actually respect very much and appreciate, because I know I'm pain in the *** with anything PvE related), so can you.

    While I agree so far apart from a few misunderstandings you cannot expect someone to go to your profile and read all your comments

    PS.

    Then why is it marketed as a PVE mode when a majority of the game is not achievable in it

    It's not marketed as a PvE mode. It's marketed as an extended tutorial, or a safe space (usually for families). Rare NEVER used the term PvE in relation to SS. Go google.

    Correct as far as im aware they never said "PVE" but they did say "Allowing you to play SOT how you want", "an environment free from pvp battles" as well as it getting named PVE servers by the community

    Would I love having PvE servers? Yes.
    Would it affect HS? Definitelly.

    Agree

    Just because I'd love pure unlocked PvE experience, it doesn't mean it wouldn't affect and potentially harm the main community that's been playing this game for several years before me. Let alone till SS introduction.

    Thing is the community is already split and many OG players left because the game started leaning more and more to the pvp crowd

  • @nullvoid4558
    First of all, thank you for actually taking the effort to go back and read. Many wouldn't do that, and honestly, I didn't expect you would even though I asked. I'm pleasantly surprised. Karma points restored hahaha! :D

    Now with that said:

    I never thought of separate accounts or progression for SS and HS. I think that is a good idea aslong as it syncs for esisting players ie your progression gets duplicated so you dont need to start from scratch if this did happen

    If Rare would eventually decide to go this way (if ever), it would still need to be approached very carefully not to harm the main mode of the game. Even then, I somehow still doubt this will happen, at least not before sunsetting of the game (before SoT 2, or whatever).

    Correct as far as im aware they never said "PVE" but they did say "Allowing you to play SOT how you want", "an environment free from pvp battles" as well as it getting named PVE servers by the community

    While never using "PVE" specifically, I'll admit that they were dancing around semantics, and that they maybe should've better flashed out publicly what the mode is actually about. There were indeed a lot of complains when SS was initially introduced for the same reasons, because there were some inconsistencies in Rare's "advertisement" of SS.

    Thing is the community is already split and many OG players left because the game started leaning more and more to the pvp crowd

    I do believe that. However, there's always two sides of the coin. And in this case, that coin has 3 sides. PvP, PvEvP and PvE. Super hard to balance. Nigh impossible to make everyone happy and keep things fair at the same time. You give a nod to PvE crowd - PvP and PvEvP crowd are threatening to leave. And so on.

    While I agree so far apart from a few misunderstandings you cannot expect someone to go to your profile and read all your comments

    And that's actually my bad! I just noticed that I've typed "sticking to one post only" instead of "one reply only". Sorry for that! I definitely wouldn't expect of you to go through all of my threads hahah! Just replies in this post/thread.

  • @r3vanns said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @nullvoid4558
    While never using "PVE" specifically, I'll admit that they were dancing around semantics, and that they maybe should've better flashed out publicly what the mode is actually about. There were indeed a lot of complains when SS was initially introduced for the same reasons, because there were some inconsistencies in Rare's "advertisement" of SS.

    They definitely danced around what it was going/intended to be

    I do believe that. However, there's always two sides of the coin. And in this case, that coin has 3 sides. PvP, PvEvP and PvE. Super hard to balance. Nigh impossible to make everyone happy and keep things fair at the same time. You give a nod to PvE crowd - PvP and PvEvP crowd are threatening to leave. And so on.

    This is very true they have done updates that favor PvP, PvEvP but not so much PvE and unfortunately that lead to a lot of the PvE crowd leaving (which imo was a bad move by rare cause there is no other PvE game like SOT)

    this goes with your point as well but PvPvE appeals to 3 crowds PvP, PvEvP and PvE now look back on the updates to this game there are very clear updates that PvP and PvEvP hardly any that favor PvE and yes there are updates that don't focus at all on the 3 crowds like POTC for example but when someone buys this game they get sorted into these category's and only PvP and PvEvP get meaningful updates that change how things work (PvP got hourglass. PvEvP when this seasons finished at least will have disguises. you could argue that PvE got S11 with the new quest system but thats more of a revamp of stuff that already existed. as for dives they do help a bit but most quests already pick islands near you anyway and you lose all your loot if you dive as for raids nearly all of them start world events so personally I tak that to PvEvP)

    I feel like the other points were as discussed as they can be without more people/dev waying in

  • @schmeling65 said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    The changes ingeneral sound good and we hope that we see this affecting the game it positvely (including server performance as that actually got worse).
    But the main point I wanna give feedback here is about the Safter Seas change.
    I am one of the these players that enjoy playing with other crews in High Seas and therefor always thought if someone doesn't want to play with others, then go Safer Seas. There was always this topic on "why should people go High Seas when they have Safer Seas" and in this video hte problem got discribed. The changes of lowering the reputation limit to 25 while giving 100% gold is a good change.
    At first I thought you/Rare are gonna lift it up even more to get more players into Safer Seas and we would have less in High Seas, which is the reason I was scared of.
    But now after I watched the video I can approve this decission as a good one to split these 2 areas up even more into their distinctive roles and theirfor keep Safer Seas a "safe" place for new players, but also keep High Seas the place for the other players after getting enough experience in the game.
    Therefor this is a good change in my oppinion.

    To be honest with you all, I suggested in the Insider forums, before Safer Seas even came out, that it should have 100% reputation and 100% gold exactly like High Seas. I also proposed that players in Safer Seas should be able to vote for Hourglass, just like in High Seas. Unfortunately, my voice was shut down by moderators, and when I sent this suggestion to support, they told me to post it in the mega thread. I even have screenshots showing that my posts were deleted by moderators.

    I agree with you, @schmeling65—this update looks like a step in the right direction. Splitting Safer Seas and High Seas further into their distinct roles will definitely help preserve the balance of the game. Safer Seas should remain a welcoming place for new players, giving them the chance to learn the ropes without the pressure of PvP interactions. On the other hand, High Seas should be where players who want more of a challenge and interaction with other crews can thrive.

    The changes to lowering the reputation limit and offering 100% gold are a great way to incentivize new players without disrupting the overall balance. It's clear Rare is aiming for a better distinction between these two areas, and this will help make both experiences more enjoyable for their respective player bases.

    As for those who are concerned about the changes, it's important to remember that Safer Seas isn't designed to be a place for high rewards or intense competition—it’s for players to ease into the game at their own pace. High Seas is where the true PvP experience shines, and it’s where players who’ve gained enough experience can really take the gloves off.

    Safer Seas should be a place where new players can enjoy the game at their own pace, with full rewards, exactly as High Seas offers. I also suggested that the maximum faction level in Safer Seas should be 50, and once they hit level 50 in all factions, not just Pirate Legend, High Seas should unlock for them. This would allow for a smoother transition and ensure that when players enter High Seas, they are ready for the true challenge.

    Once High Seas opens up, the open crews there should be worth the blood of pirates, making the experience meaningful and rewarding for those who have put in the time and effort to get there. This is how you can make the High Seas truly valuable—by making it feel earned.

    This update is thoughtful, and I'm glad to see Rare embracing the differences between the two experiences!

  • [mod edit]

    I agree with you, @schmeling65—this update looks like a step in the right direction. Splitting Safer Seas and High Seas further into their distinct roles will definitely help preserve the balance of the game. Safer Seas should remain a welcoming place for new players, giving them the chance to learn the ropes without the pressure of PvP interactions. On the other hand, High Seas should be where players who want more of a challenge and interaction with other crews can thrive.

    The changes to lowering the reputation limit and offering 100% gold are a great way to incentivize new players without disrupting the overall balance. It's clear Rare is aiming for a better distinction between these two areas, and this will help make both experiences more enjoyable for their respective player bases.

    As for those who are concerned about the changes, it's important to remember that Safer Seas isn't designed to be a place for high rewards or intense competition—it’s for players to ease into the game at their own pace. High Seas is where the true PvP experience shines, and it’s where players who’ve gained enough experience can really take the gloves off.

    Safer Seas should be a place where new players can enjoy the game at their own pace, with full rewards, exactly as High Seas offers. I also suggested that the maximum faction level in Safer Seas should be 50, and once they hit level 50 in all factions, not just Pirate Legend, High Seas should unlock for them. This would allow for a smoother transition and ensure that when players enter High Seas, they are ready for the true challenge.

    Once High Seas opens up, the open crews there should be worth the blood of pirates, making the experience meaningful and rewarding for those who have put in the time and effort to get there. This is how you can make the High Seas truly valuable—by making it feel earned.

    This update is thoughtful, and I'm glad to see Rare embracing the differences between the two experiences!

  • Please avoid engaging in personal arguments and derailing the topic of the thread. It is fine to debate the content of the post, and the viewpoints therein, but disrespecting any of your fellow pirates personally is against the pirate code, and our forum rules.

  • I have been playing SOT since launch. I have seen it all, I have fought everything and everyone under the sun and sea. I have gotten to the point now where I’m pretty much over all the sweating. I’m 44 and I just tired. I have almost everything I could want in the game. I love the feel of SOT. The music the ocean and just all of it so now most times I just want to get on and get Lit. I do things at a slow pace and just chill as I listen to music on Spotify, sometimes I even match up Spotify songs with the I game shanties and it sounds amazing.
    I want to play on SS to do that but I just can’t. See because we can’t take our own ships we have earned as a Captain. I earned that stuff I should be able to have it on SS. Especially with having it fixed at the shipwrite. I don’t care about. Earning Milestones. Hell I have my sloop where I want. I have lvl 300 with Playing Shanties alone on my ship for my milestones so I’m good. Just give me my GD ship with all its trinkets and the ability to fix it up.

    The way I see it when it comes to people who hate SS is this. The people who trash on SS and it even being in the game are the [mod edit]. They are the ones who just want to hunt down and trash on people. The ones who will instead of fighting and taking your stuff they will camp your ship and just spawn kill you till you scuttle, and you know what their opinions don’t matter because they suck. So SS is great for people who are new or just want a peaceful chill time. If they added Captaincy on SS but not being able to earn milestones then I would play SS mostly and then when I Do play High Seas I will be down to fight. Them adding 100% on SS will mean people who play HS will be more likely to say alright let’s throw down and give you sweats that fight you want.

  • @itz-majman agree 100%

    Def a step in the right direction. Should be more reasons to play Sea of Thieves not less in my opinion. I will def play more if they lower restrictions on SS and lift restrictions on SS. As long as I can level and do Season stuff in SS, I'd be happy.

    I think opening up SS could potentially be a place for people to go if they rage quit from HS instead of Uninstallingbor closing game they could chill on SS and return back when ready.

    Maybe they could try a SS shared server, or other type of shared server down the road. Like Safer Seas private or open/shared. Who knows what's possible.

  • One thing I forgot to say that I thought of. Is that improving PVE only server (SS) experience and rewards will bring new people into the game that might not have tried pvp, are hesitant. They even may find they like the pvp in SoT and jump over to HS. I honestly think gold received in SS should be 50%- 80% of gold you get in HS. I think Sovereigns and owned ships should be available. I'm ok with emissaries but with no bonus or reduced bonus.

    Not sure on Athena"s or Reapers. But I think you should be able to get commendations, challenges and seasonal in SS. Reputation should be similar to gold sell rates in SS and should have no limit on levels earned in SS.
    My opinion.

  • @darkghosto58 totally agree. Appreciate what you said. Many times I've gone to introduce SoT via SS to someone and I help them and I earn no xp cause of the limits and can't show my ship.

    Not sure that everyone that hates on pve are the ppl trashing on ppl in game. But I'm sure removing sheep (pve'ers) from the field that were easy prey for PvPers is upsetting to many of them. Would force many PvPers that chase players that don't want to fight (as the run away into red zone) to have to go against others like them and might force them to get good.

  • @musicmee said in Changes to Safer Seas announced in Developer Update 12th of November:

    @itz-majman THIS 100%

    They were never gonna be the fight you wanted in High Seas or have the loot, flag, orb (etc) you so very much crave... so let them live in their safe spaces.

    When the time comes they will move over... And if they don't you'll never know, the server will still be full of up to X boats anyway.

    This 1000% THIS. Why try to force someone to play your way and in doing so Guarantee that they never will .

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