Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

From what I see people recycle quest based on loot per island. So if you get 1 skull captain on 3 islands you will recycle that as opposed to 1 island with 3 captains. Longer and therefore harder quests are usually done partway only hitting the important big loot islands then canceling afterwards. This promotes a bad system where completing a voyage is not as important or effective as doing big cash islands. I want to encourage people to do the whole voyage to make them stay at sea longer and reward them for taking the extra risk and putting in the extra effort. It doesn’t stop voyage canceling/recycling it just encourages voyage completion as it should.

I definitely agree that it is annoying that some quests are just ignored until you get the one with good rewards, I think they should have a longer timer on when you can get quests from the NPC, or perhaps you have to complete a quest to get a new one from the NPC... It just feels cheap to me when people consistently bin the quests which give a lower reward, although sometimes you can't blame them but yea... I tend to do any quest which is given to me :P

I also see how this suggestion would provide incentive for people to stay at sea a little longer, and take more risks, whilst also providing more incentive for people to complete voyages. A win win I think!

@entspeak I told you I wouldn't reply if you do that to my post, and I standby that. You could have said all of that in a short paragraph rather than commenting on every other sentence I wrote.

Ok. So the time thing. The PVPer uses time looking for the PVE ship just as the PVE ship sinks time into questing. But the difference is the PVP ship can sit on the open ocean risking nothing but time as they stand in the crows nest looking around for ships. The PVE ship risks time and their rep reward and their gold in that same amount of time. The pvp ship didnt purchase a quest or deal with a crapload of skeletons, or solve a riddle quest. The PVP ship is empty and if someone comes up and attacks they may gain some loot if they win. If they lose they lose nothing.

If the PVE player is in a cave on an island looking for a guy crushed by a boulder for a riddle and his ship gets blasted with 12 cannonballs before he can get back to it...he loses everything. Not just time. The whole leaves his lights on and gets snuck up on thing is rediculous. The reason most get sank at an island is because they are on the island looking for some riddle and just cannot get back to the ship in time. From the time you hear the first cannon blast near the ship until the time you get back it will be hit by quite a few before you can get on the ship and avoid getting hit by a cannonball, patch up and escape or return fire. By then you are being attacked on your ship.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the PVP element of the game and I'm decent at it. I just see the benefit of a fraction of rep for doing the quest or finishing the skull fort. People rage quitting may be funny and you may say oh well who needs them. But if you're a PVP player...you need them.

@angrycoconut16 I would just ignore entspeak. He doesn’t provide anything to contribute to the discussion of the thread. He simply believes the game is perfect and shouldn’t be changed and can’t really change a mind of a person who is so stubborn. Rare will decide how they want their game to change to meet the wants of the community and that will be the end of this thread. As someone mentioned earlier he met a rare employ and passed the word on this thread so we will see what happens.

@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@angrycoconut16 Your choice. But, I didn't alter the meaning or intent of anything you said by responding the way I did. My points are still valid. I find the decision not to respond based solely on how a post is formatted kind of silly... but... choose to respond... or not. That's your choice. :)

I never implied you did. You keep running on and on and on about choice, it's pathetic. Ok lets try talking in your language.

1. This idea would make players more likely to make the CHOICE to stay at sea longer collecting loot, which would be beneficial to PvP rewards as it is likely they will stash larger loots
2. This idea would make players less likely to make the CHOICE to log off, uninstall the game and never play it again... and will provide a more positive atmosphere to all
3. This idea as suggested above, another bonus which I hadn't thought of, is going to encourage players to make the CHOICE to complete the entirety of their voyage...
4. This idea will make players more riskier by way of making the CHOICE to engage in PvP a bit more frequently.. I know I would make that CHOICE if I knew that I wouldn't get 0 if it went really badly.
5. This idea will not affect the CHOICE that Rare made when deciding to make this a game about risk and paranoia on the seas. People will still have to make the CHOICE of when to go to an outpost, where they want to sail etc, their cargo is still their most valuable income.

At the end of the day, it is your CHOICE to not be open minded and see this suggestion for what it really could be, and help the game grow positively. It is your CHOICE to believe that the current system is the best and the only thing which will work. It is your CHOICE to ignore the positives of this idea rather than suggesting constructive ways to remove any parts you see as a potential negative (like I did).

Oh and I also find it silly that you edited your post god knows how many times to say exactly the same thing (yes I was watching it every time, it was quite entertaining, about 10 times it flashed on my screen and changed yet the message was the same..) and that you feel the need to comment on almost EVERY sentence someone writes. But that is your CHOICE. Just like it is my CHOICE to not respond any further as clearly our conversations will take us nowhere.

Now do us a favour and stop wasting everyone's time.

@rp-slayer-2 True, and a good way around that is to leave someone on the ship to stand guard, but come on.. few people really want to be that person.... it's not fun, everyone wants to be on the island and solving the riddle! I wouldn't mind being sunk if I knew I had gained some progression for everything I had done previously, even if I don't get the major reward from handing in.

Thank you for seeing the positives of this idea :) It is intended almost as a 'cushion the blow' sort of measure, but it will have other indirect positives too which will benefit PvP. And like you say, you NEED PvE players to get your reward as a PvP player.

@theblackbellamy

I wanted to address a concern I've seen a few people say... As much as I support this idea I, along with some other people are worried that awarding all rep on 'voyage complete' will introduce some additional problems. @enpixelate I'd like some clarification on your view too as it's your thread, and you still also want 100% progression on voyage complete.

These problems mainly concern people who (like myself..) are not so interested in gold and cosmetics and just want to grind to PL. Unless Rare introduce lots of new cosmetics lots of people will be reaching this point as there is only a limited number of things you can spend gold on... inflation is a real problem in the game for people who play a lot.. literally when they introduce new items plenty of people are going to be able to buy them straight off the bat as they have a lot of excess gold. Even if you don't feel this way, the loot has GOT to have incentive for everyone to protect it. If you removed ALL progression associated with the chest:

1. People can potentially stay at sea forever, someone even said you can shoot one member of your crew to shore by cannon, to pick up additional quests, mermaid back and keep going, and yes, I fear this would become a real thing... If people don't care about their gold why would they care about what they are accumulating, and if they lose it?
2. It really reduces the feeling of risk and loss, and it is just as dangerous to remove that from the game, as it is to have too much of it (the current state)...

Like I said, this is relevant to people who want to progress and don't care about gold, not everyone, however I can assure you that this still represents a significant proportion of the community.

Due to this, what do you think about the system that I and @I-Am-Lost-77 were discussing. On 'voyage complete' you receive a bonus 'well done voyage complete! have this progression' sort of thing, but you still get the current loot/gold on hand in. The bonus in question wouldn't be massive, but it wouldn't be small either. Lets say handing in at an outpost gives you 100 reputation points (for simplicity). The bonus should be somewhere between 25-50 points in my opinion. Enough to be meaningful, but not to detract too much attention from the main aspect of the game, which Rare want in the game, and a lot of people enjoy - to defend your 'belongings' in a sea full of thieves!

@enpixelate I've noticed that several people joining the discussion are immediately dismissive of the idea on this basis so wanted to hear your view. I personally am actually strongly against what you said on the first page, because of the reasons in this post, but I am strongly for the incentive and believe people should not be left empty handed feeling c**p if they have things stolen, it drains enjoyment and passion for the game out of people...

@angrycoconut16 agreed OP initial post is a little dated and I actually disagree with the taking away xp from loot.

@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

Players running around solving riddles will always have significantly less loot than players cycling quests for large reward digs.

If people do large reward digs they will have their treasure for less time making it more difficult for a PvP player to steal. If they are focused on completing a voyage they may have less loot (or more since they are doing an entire voyage) but they will have it for a greater amount of time thus giving PvP players more opportunity to steal.

Plus if you front load the reward for chests by doing something like giving the rep when you dig it up, or backload it by giving you all the rep when you complete the whole voyage, you'll see a significant decrease in how many chests are actually brought back to ships. Have you never been on a Legendary voyage?

The bonus xp for voyage completion should not be large enough to discourage turn in. Turn in loot should still be the primary and most effiecnt way to get xp and gold

Basically every suggestion thus far makes the chests and skulls worth comparatively less on turn in than they are now. The degree to which they are worth less is equal to a PvE player and a PvP player.

Yes but in reality they are worth the exact same amount. All you get is bonus xp for playing the game. PvE get rewarded for investing time into the game the, change to pvp players reward is literally nothing.

@enpixelate @TheBlackBellamy

Just to illustrate my point, I've been on this thread a while so was just about to see what others are floating around, the FIRST one I come to was this:

https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/56323/feels-like-rare-wants-people-to-stop-play-this-game

Take a look, the OP says people are accumulating hundreds of thousands of gold. This is the exact reason removing all progression from loot hand in will remove the need to ever visit an outpost, and will remove far too much risk.

@I-Am-Lost-77 Hah! Just noticed you directed them here too. That's hilarious (:

@angrycoconut16 because this thread makes sense!!! lol. I direct anyone to this thread who I think this will help whatever problem they may have

@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@angrycoconut16 Your choice. But, I didn't alter the meaning or intent of anything you said by responding the way I did. Disliking the way I arrange my posts in no way invalidates the content. It's clearly a dodge.

What the heck are you guy's point about efficiency?? Efficiency is all relative to the player, yes. Someone can beat Mario in 6 min or 45. What does that have to do with anything? The only part about this argument where efficiency comes in is that people ditch voyages after doing the most rewarding parts to be efficient, and we think they should be encouraged to actually do the whole voyage, which we've said a hundred times, would make PvP more likely, and make PvP more rewarding.

@graiis It's irrelevant now. Entspeak was concerned about PvP rewards and I was basically saying look, if people ONLY PvP they are going to get rep/gold far less efficiently anyway, if they choose to completely ignore other aspects of the game and only focus on combat that is their deal. It is already a less efficient method, it is not our concern here if it becomes slightly less efficient still when they are ignoring the voyaging side of the game completely, plus it isn't usually their concern, they just enjoy sinking ships.

@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@TheBlackBellamy

1. People can potentially stay at sea forever, someone even said you can shoot one member of your crew to shore by cannon, to pick up additional quests, mermaid back and keep going, and yes, I fear this would become a real thing... If people don't care about their gold why would they care about what they are accumulating, and if they lose it?
2. It really reduces the feeling of risk and loss, and it is just as dangerous to remove that from the game, as it is to have too much of it (the current state)...

Like I said, this is relevant to people who want to progress and don't care about gold, not everyone, however I can assure you that this still represents a significant proportion of the community.

Due to this, what do you think about the system that I and @I-Am-Lost-77 were discussing. On 'voyage complete' you receive a bonus 'well done voyage complete! have this progression' sort of thing, but you still get the current loot/gold on hand in. The bonus in question wouldn't be massive, but it wouldn't be small either. Lets say handing in at an outpost gives you 100 reputation points (for simplicity). The bonus should be somewhere between 25-50 points in my opinion. Enough to be meaningful, but not to detract too much attention from the main aspect of the game, which Rare want in the game, and a lot of people enjoy - to defend your 'belongings' in a sea full of thieves!

If you're finishing voyages, does it matter if you're at Sea forever? I don't think the devs would care if you level exclusively from finishing voyages. You're still spawning rewards into the world, are you throwing them in the ocean to be extra petty if you're not turning them in? The devs love how people leave chests and skulls around

@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

If you're finishing voyages, does it matter if you're at Sea forever? I don't think the devs would care if you level exclusively from finishing voyages. You're still spawning rewards into the world, are you throwing them in the ocean to be extra petty if you're not turning them in? The devs love how people leave chests and skulls around

Yes, it does matter, because the whole feeling of risk and the requirement to defend your loot primarily comes from returning to an outpost, but if you have got your progression immediately and thus don't need to sail anywhere to 'deliver' it removes the risk from that portion of the voyage, and this is the main part of your voyage associated with risk. It is unlikely you happen to dock at the same island as others but it is very likely another ship might spot you and start to come your way especially if they think you have something valuable. The devs would care about this because that is one of their aims in the game, to give players that feeling of paranoia which is at the core of what this game aims to deliver.

It isn't petty to leave chests around, it's something which could really occur, as I said, many players are primarily interested in progression.. why purpose would I have to cart a chest which is essentially dead weight around? I mean perhaps I'd keep them for as long as I could, some gold is always better than 0, but if at any point any form of risk or enemies chase me, that loot is going overboard because why would I waste my time when it isn't my main interest. That isn't petty it just fits with people who want to level and aren't so bothered about accumulating a ridiculous amount of gold in a game with very limited places to spend it..

@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

If you're finishing voyages, does it matter if you're at Sea forever? I don't think the devs would care if you level exclusively from finishing voyages. You're still spawning rewards into the world, are you throwing them in the ocean to be extra petty if you're not turning them in? The devs love how people leave chests and skulls around

Yes, it does matter, because the whole feeling of risk and the requirement to defend your loot primarily comes from returning to an outpost, but if you have got your progression immediately and thus don't need to sail anywhere to 'deliver' it removes the risk from that portion of the voyage, and this is the main part of your voyage associated with risk. It is unlikely you happen to dock at the same island as others but it is very likely another ship might spot you and start to come your way especially if they think you have something valuable. The devs would care about this because that is one of their aims in the game, to give players that feeling of paranoia which is at the core of what this game aims to deliver.

It isn't petty to leave chests around, it's something which could really occur, as I said, many players are primarily interested in progression.. why purpose would I have to cart a chest which is essentially dead weight around? I mean perhaps I'd keep them for as long as I could, some gold is always better than 0, but if at any point any form of risk or enemies chase me, that loot is going overboard because why would I waste my time when it isn't my main interest. That isn't petty it just fits with people who want to level and aren't so bothered about accumulating a ridiculous amount of gold in a game with very limited places to spend it..

Right I'm not saying it's petty to leave a chest. I was just wondering if you'd be purposefully sinking chests so noone could have them if you didn't care about turning them in yourself. I'm saying, if you don't care about the chest for whatever reason, like that you already grinded a million gold but you're 45, (which people have mentioned, and I agree is totally BS, balance your grind Rare, you shouldn't be so rich you can buy everything and not be at the end, less gold or more stuff plz) anyway... Then you won't feel anything if you have chests aboard, you won't be paranoid because you're already considering just leaving it. I'm also saying, you're still causing the loot to exist, and someone can pick it up and they'll probably be worried about it. Also, they'd actually be discovering something out in the world. Also about the overboard thing, I know I've heard the devs brag about enticing someone chasing you with a chest thrown overboard, so that'd be good too.

@quietrobot @TouchDown1504 I don't see how this would avoid that case? Can someone explain that to me? Is that another potential benefit?

@graiis I see. Well you illustrate my point when you say 'You're still causing the loot to exist and someone can pick it up and they'll probably be worried about it'....

Everyone needs to be worried about their own loot, everyone. That is the core of the game, having something to defend. That's why it would be BS to give people 100% progression on 'voyage complete'... your voyage is complete, yes, but your JOURNEY isn't, it is very important that people need to sail somewhere to turn in the loot, so they have the opportunity to be engaged and thus have to defend their loot.

@touchdown1504 Dude, just ignore him. He isn't worth your time, or any of our time. He is just stubborn and will refuse to change his opinions until the end, he is too close-minded and immature.

@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@graiis I see. Well you illustrate my point when you say 'You're still causing the loot to exist and someone can pick it up and they'll probably be worried about it'....

Everyone needs to be worried about their own loot, everyone. That is the core of the game, having something to defend. That's why it would be BS to give people 100% progression on 'voyage complete'... your voyage is complete, yes, but your JOURNEY isn't, it is very important that people need to sail somewhere to turn in the loot, so they have the opportunity to be engaged and thus have to defend their loot.

Yeah for sure, I'm not on the split the loot side, I want bonus stuff

@GraiIs Ahh ok. That's fair enough then. By the way don't feed the troll! ^

@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@AngryCoconut16
Is that not a legitimate question? This is your idea. Shouldn't it stand up to scrutiny? What do you say to a player upset that he has only gained a bonus, but lost 80% of the rest of his potential reputation reward and 100% of potential gold reward in PvP?

You say nothing. they did the voyage they got some xp they don’t feel like they wasted their time. Sure they could have gotten more but they lost the battle the learn from it.

Just like games with a match victory bonus: you played got your xp, could have gotten more if you won but at least you got something. Some is better than nothing.