Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

  • AngryCoconut16

    @entspeak You can quote the devs all you like, that is what the devs envisioned, that doesn't make it the reality. The devs can tell you what they were aiming for with their system, and they can use player feedback to see how close they were to achieving that or how fulfilling it is for the player, that's the purpose of feedback.

    I am not disagreeing that if I lose loot it's partly, or all my fault. I am not debating that! What I am saying is, the loss is too large at the moment! And yes, your solution is essentially go to an outpost as soon as you have loot (or valuable loot) as that's the only way to prevent loss. To be quite frank, that is a very dull mechanic, I think going to an outpost is fine but at the moment is really discourages any player to take any risks (such as staying at sea longer or engaging in PvP)

    What we are saying is, loss is OK and a core aspect of the game, but at the moment, it is too great. It is not a satisfying experience or game for someone who is voyaging. I am not saying there is a FAULT in game design. The game design is really fun to be honest, I love the idea of having to defend my loot and it is thrilling running away from people. What I am saying is that the game design can be taken one step further, to keep this core experience, whilst not making it such a deflating experience when loot IS lost, and at the same time this will encourage people to make riskier decisions and not feel so bad if it goes badly, something which I strongly believe would greatly enhance everyone's game experience.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @entspeak That is exactly how this works! It is much more difficult to come up with a solution which will fix both PvE, PvPvE, and PvP in one swoop, but to come up with ideas which will enhance each aspect of the game is much more feasible! Plus, I want you to answer now. Please stop dodging. Comment on the positives we have said this will have on PvP.

    I agree there is no guarantee PvP ideas will be adopted, but there is no guarantee this idea will be adopted, that is a very poor reason to be dismissive of it. If Rare ever did implement this idea they would do what they saw fit for their game to make sure all aspects of the game are viable and fulfilling, which is afterall their aim! Perhaps they'd wait to implement this till PvP has something ready to implement. Perhaps they'd add this idea, then in a subsequent patch one month later, add something to revitalise PvP. I have no idea. The point is, it's not relevant. AND for the umpteenth time, this will have many positive effects on PvP too, which you seem intent on ignoring.

  • DaveyJay1984
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    @angrycoconut16 I agree that there needs to be more use of the reputation system. There should be more factions.
    I want to see the marauder faction - already a chest and use of this name in game - which is about PVP achievement and the tracking of associated statistics.
    I want to see an explorer type faction - you are rewarded for travelling long distances and having encounters such as the Kraken.
    I'm sure people can think of many more.

    I'm not arguing with you here but backing up my statement a little. As there are still a lot of suggestions that the terms EXP and REP are interchangeable. These are two seperate, existing mechanics in game design.
    EXP (experience points) is about game character progression in a set of skills, usually allowing for buffs such as medic skill leading to a 5% improvement to healing time etc. This type of system doesn't exist in SoT as all skill development is by the player not their in game representation.
    REP (Reputation) is about your relationship with factions. It is gained by completing tasks for the faction. Voyages in this case. Missions, quests etc elsewhere, where you are rewarded for completing a specific task and returning with evidence of completion.
    These two mechanics are often utilised side by side in RPGs amongst other game types and Rare specifically chose the Reputation mechanic and the language related to it, expecting that people would recognise the difference.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 I think this is where I differ in the entire discussion. I feel XP should be awarded for the tasks an individual completes. For three reasons.

    1. It is XP. "Experience Points". Players should be rewarded for engaging in the wider game. Killing skeletons, Krakens, even other crews. It would encourage wider gameplay.

    2. It fits thematically, although I don't care about that, a great number of people do. A pirate's Reputation should be based on accomplishments, not deliveries (although those can count some too).

    3. Timing, as I mentioned to one of the local trolls (see above posting) would virtually guarantee that no one ever logs out without zero XP as long as they engaged with the game in some fashion. Which snowballs into all of the other bennies we covered dozens of times.

    Anyhow, I do believe that is where I part ways with most in the discussion. I say as I did early on, it is a system that would take time to implement (guessing, because I am not a code monkey). Which is why, if you look WAY back in the thread) I said early on that as a foundation to change, and a band aid to stem the tide, Just award the reputation on "VC". But that part has been lost in discussion. Page 1, around the 7 or 8 post.

    The thing is, I do completely agree with you. The reason I changed my mind is because someone pointed out that it would probably be far easier for Rare to program exp gains on 'voyage complete' and just add a bonus there. Your idea would make this EVEN MORE fulfilling for a PvE player, I don't think skeletons should award much if any exp to be quite honest, because I see them more as a pest then a threat... not worthy of exp, but skeleton captains could EACH award rep, and each chest successfully located could provide rep etc.. The kraken should award some... the storm (not too much so that everyone guns for the storm as a form of grinding, but maybe if a player is in the storm for at least a certain length of time, they are awarded some exp/rep for successfully braving the dangerous waters as it were). PLUS if this was the case it would finally function more as reputation!

    The reason I changed my mind is purely because I'm happy with either solution (as I've never really had an issue with losing loot while completing a voyage, it's always been while at sea.. so the bonus on VC would make me happy) and to make it easier for Rare...

    They could always implement VC bonus as a temporary measure and then depending on player feedback add more rep for the other bits and bobs which does make more cohesive sense. And yea this discussion sure has got long now xD

  • AngryCoconut16

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    The devs disagree.

    And how do you know they disagree? Have you asked them personally what they feel given player feedback so far? If you have an official statement on their CURRENT opinion please do share, I'd genuinely be very interested in it. I know they've released information on solo play recently but I've not seen anything on this matter.

    The whole idea of feedback is to let the devs know how the player experience is, ideas, how we think it could be improved etc. That is what we are doing. This is how no small number of players feel.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @nquarter said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    I have to completely disagree. I don't think a Reward should be given, when you haven't actually "finished" a Voyage by handing in the items you were sent to retrieve. It kind of contradicts the purpose of the Voyage... well what vague purpose they implemented within their Story anyway.

    In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with Risking a Reward for Success. It is much more rewarding [not talking about Rep, or Gold], but a sense of accomplishment of actually making it to the end without losing a single piece of Item, whether that be by running, or by standing your ground and fighting back.

    Some people already run when they have Loot on board, and some fight back. This will not change regardless of if we get Rep for Completing a Voyage, or handing in a Voyage. It will still be the same, but there will just be that added "Risk" aspect to be able to receive something a little extra at the end by handing in the Items.

    I play Solo quite a bit, because I enjoy that Risk of dealing with Duo Sloops, or Galleon's, and coming out on top. Yes sometimes I don't, and I do lose everything, but hey, that's just the nature of the Game. I just shrug it off and start another Voyage.

    I think giving free Rep before the Items were handed in, would create another form for the Community to purely grind for Rep. They will do full Voyages, yet care not if they lose their Items, because the Risk of their Reward will be completely washed out to Sea... so to speak.

    They would have a sense of carelessness, because they are given what they desire, which is Rep, surprising enough, is what the Progression in SoT is all about.

    The Game needs to make ways to allow players to WANT to play the Game correctly, by doing Voyages, succeeding in the Voyages, and earning their Rewards and Bonus afterwards. This will be the incentive Players need.

    We are not asking for a full reward, most of the reward should still come from an outpost we completely agree. The vast majority of players do NOT turn and fight when they have loot I can assure you :P

    What we are suggesting is a BONUS on voyage complete. This will give players more encouragement to make riskier game decisions as if it goes badly, they won't walk away with 0. I agree with the feeling of accomplishment, I also feel great when I successfully run from an enemy, and it is so thrilling to be chased, and naval combat is really fun. These experiences can all be retained with our suggestion, as most of the reward will STILL come from handing in loot at an outpost. It's just if a player is bested, or makes a decision which results in their demise, they don't have such a crippling loss and waste a significant amount of their time, as they have still gained SOME exp.

    You can't say the risk of their reward will be washed out to sea, that depends on quantity. If for instance you were given 5% of you reputation up front and your loot was worth 95% would you not care about your loot? I don't think so, I'm sure you'd want to cash in and get that 95%. If you were given 80% up front, and your loot was worth 20% would you care? Personally I wouldn't so much. I do agree it is an important thing to consider, but that's why quantity is so important. It is very feasible to implement this idea whilst keeping the value and risk element in the game however. This is the exact reason I support the incentive of this thread while being 100% against the OP suggestion of ALL loot on voyage complete, you are correct, that removes far too much risk from the game.

    Also, be careful when you say 'play the game correctly', the devs specifically want players to play the game how they want. I do agree that all players should be encouraged to participate in the 'full game experience' (PvPvE) but Rare want to support people who prefer PvP or prefer PvE too. This suggestion will primarily encourage PvE, and healthy PvPvE interactions. (If people have received some rep and know they won't walk away with 0 they are more likely to be up for PvP combat, which is healthy for the game)

  • Skyewauker
    Insider

    @urihamrayne It has nothing to do with assuming I will be defeated. This is how it plays out for me, very simply.

    I have a decent haul on my ship. I see a ship. Do I run the risk of losing ALL of my progress? After all, its a 50/50 coin flip if going to win or lose. Or do I just go turn in due to said risks. Im not assuming defeat. Im assuming that I could potentially lose an hour or 3 worth of gameplay for no reason whatsoever lol.

    Being brave or a coward? Huh? This isn't real life bro lol. Simmer down Lt. Dan.

    This is a game. Within this game, it has a progression system, the way the progression system / mechanics work, it IS actively discouraging PvP. With the current system, I am NOT fighting with loot on board. Not any meaningful loot anyways. After I turn it in, sure, I am all for the fight. Hell, after I turn in, part of the way I play , is to go back out on the seas and look for PvP. There is no amount of taunting / baiting that will get me to engage when I have a couple captains and a grog on board. Negative ghost rider.

    Again. This isn't cowardice. Its being smart about the time I've spent in game. Period.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @daveyjay1984 I would love a PvP faction or something to encourage healthy PvP, and something for people who primarily prefer PvP... I think having too many reputation systems could be detrimental to the game but I do like the idea of something PvP related, it's ridiculous that we don't have a system dedicated to PvP in my opinion.

    Exp - it also about 'experience' in the game, whether it leads to something or not. Killing enemies is also experience, especially larger more significant bosses. Successfully locating chests using your map and compass is experience, and you will get better over time as you practise, same with riddles. It all culminates as progress towards pirate legend, and experience at the game.

    Rep - I do agree with you, but are you telling me killing the kraken wouldn't earn you rep with all factions? 'woah you defeated the kraken! you are awesome, now I trust you to do more quests for me' kinda thing, or even ONE faction? (perhaps curse faction would be most relevant) Also if you defeated a pirate who has a higher reputation, why would they not respect that? The entire game is about sea of thieves right? So why would they not respect someone who can hold their own on the ocean, they really ought to respect that as it means you have more chance of coming back with the item they want, even if someone attacks you!

    This is why I'm saying rep isn't fit for purpose currently :P There are too many holes which don't make sense..

  • lotrmith
    Marauder
    Insider

    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 To be clear, how XP is awarded, as in the form is really not what concerns me. When, is what concerns me. The timing as it stands now has one moment at which XP can be rewarded. The point at which a voyage "truly" ends, upon the redemption of items. This naturally excludes the tiny amount received from Commendations. However, a closer examination of commendations shows (that for the most part) this is an existing bonus for further handing in more items! Truthfully, it is a redundancy on the existing system.

    So, to put my thoughts in a more bare bones proposition...the rewarding of XP should be done upon the accomplishment of sub-tasks involved in a voyage. Therefore, changing the timing of the rewards and allowing a more fulfilling gaming experience, that lends itself to consistent progression toward the "finish line". In other words, if an individual is actively engaged with the game's content, they should never logout without receiving XP that progresses them toward Legend status.

    Simply put, the timing of rewards is my chief concern.

    You can do this already by visiting outposts to turn in your loot island by island rather than waiting until your whole voyage is finished. It is your choice to increase efficiency by stocking up on loot from many or all islands in a voyage before turning in. But, you're taking an increased risk, and that is your choice. Coincidentally, how efficient does it turn out to be if you are sunk and get nothing?

    By the way...Did you happen to get those numbers yet? Hard to take someone seriously when by appearances you are willing to just make up nonsense to support your argument. That is why, i am giving the benefit of a doubt. It's all good...I'll wait.

    You haven't been asked for hard numbers of exactly how many players feel their play sessions are unrewarding, and quantifiable survey results for exactly how upset they are at the current system. Quit being ridiculous. Your entire premise is based on your personal feelings and projecting those feelings onto your supporters and assuming those feelings are representative if the majority playerbase.

    The opinions counter to yours are, however, grounded by the personal opinions of the developers.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @skyewauker That's exactly it. There is NOTHING wrong with loss, hell you lose games sometimes, and usually it takes a lot to make me angry if I find a game fun! I'm happy to lose. But the potential for 100% loss is just so frustrating to most people! That's why you see rage threads, that's why people are leaving, that's why people are discouraged to PvP or do make interesting plays, because the risk is soo great if it goes badly!

    They changed the auto aim of skeleton cannons this patch :) That's good it was a bit too strong. Hopefully they'll do the same with the skeleton gunners at some point :) Rare do seem to be paying attention, I just truly hope they resolve this issue too as this is a big one.

  • Skyewauker
    Insider

    @angrycoconut16 Its kinda like in FFXI.

    There used to be exp loss if you died. You would go level some and some j*****s would train mobs and get you killed. There goes all exp earned and then some for those 3-4 hours you just played.

    Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan it was rage enducing.

  • Nebacuhnezar
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @enpixelate

    I really like this idea.

    One has to consider though, that if there is a XP reward to complete voyages/find chests, etc, and unless it is a small one, it can have a large impact on how quickly a player gets to legend status. It has to be something that takes awhile to achieve.

    I do believe that there should be some reward, but it cannot be a big one. I don't want to see everyone starting to become legend and the title/status mean nothing. This is just my opinion, and is subject to change.

  • Skyewauker
    Insider

    @doctor-dissaray Even with the change, the grind is still the grind. Thats a whole different can of worms though.

    The title already means nothing. There are 1000s of pirate legends already. They really need to flatten out the curve for progression. Right now its a small hill then Mt. Everest. I don't want to de-rail the thread.

    Simply put, you cannot say the real game starts at legend then lock legend behind a wall that most casual players ( the life blood of your game btw) cannot climb.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @skyewauker Exactly. Let us not forget that this is a casual game, aimed at casual players, and marketed to anyone 12+. It should be a FUN experience. Losing is a part of any game but the current risk of loss discourages other fun avenues for play, and is excessively rage/anger/frustration/sadness inducing.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @doctor-dissaray A complete non-issue. If Rare are concerned about this, reduce rep gain from outposts (and make sure the bonus is below this) perhaps collectively it will equal the current outpost hand in gain. Alternatively just increase the rep required for each faction to reach 50. There are simple ways around this, the grind can be adjusted around this. I have no issue with the grind.

    Thanks for the support :)

  • SavageTwinky
    Master
    Insider

    @zneekey said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @savagetwinky Offence is the best defence ;)

    maybe but how else are you supposed to talk to someone who's entire refute is "your not supposed to criticize my idea, I didn't criticize yours". There's no way to be offensive at this point the bar is so low...

  • lotrmith
    Marauder
    Insider

    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    The devs disagree.

    And how do you know they disagree? Have you asked them personally what they feel given player feedback so far? If you have an official statement on their CURRENT opinion please do share, I'd genuinely be very interested in it. I know they've released information on solo play recently but I've not seen anything on this matter.

    The whole idea of feedback is to let the devs know how the player experience is, ideas, how we think it could be improved etc. That is what we are doing. This is how no small number of players feel.

    Their statements have been quoted in this thread. You have chosen to ignore them.

  • TouchDown1504
    Insider
    Founder

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    A forest with 3 wolves and 300 rabbits is in balance, despite there not being an equal number of wolves and rabbits.

    Currently in Sea of Thieves, there are a balanced number of predators (PvPers) vs prey (PvEers). Anything you do that incentivizes one more than they other upsets that balance.

    So...this wasn't you simply pulling Facts out of your magic hat?
    (the emphasis in bold is mine, so everyone knows)
    Then you are going to come in here and say one side of the argument is invalid because it is based in emotion, the other is completely valid because it is based all in fact? You have zero credibility sir, go back and look at your posts filled with the same nonsense "facts".

    The fact you have to resort to outright lying shows exactly the strength of the original idea.

  • lotrmith
    Marauder
    Insider

    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    A forest with 3 wolves and 300 rabbits is in balance, despite there not being an equal number of wolves and rabbits.

    Currently in Sea of Thieves, there are a balanced number of predators (PvPers) vs prey (PvEers). Anything you do that incentivizes one more than they other upsets that balance.

    So...this wasn't you simply pulling Facts out of your magic hat?
    (the emphasis in bold is mine, so everyone knows)
    Then you are going to come in here and say one side of the argument is invalid because it is based in emotion, the other is completely valid because it is based all in fact? You have zero credibility sir, go back and look at your posts filled with the same nonsense "facts".

    The fact you have to resort to outright lying shows exactly the strength of the original idea.

    No, I'm saying you're holding counter arguments to a higher standard than your own, when yours is the one that is contrary to the game design and the intentions of the devs.

    It doesn't make for a very compelling argument on your part.

  • AngryCoconut16

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    Their statements have been quoted in this thread. You have chosen to ignore them.

    You can't just take a quote and assume that Rare STILL hold that opinion! The game was released March 20th, if their quote was before that, it is not a statement of what they currently think based on what they have learnt and the feedback they have obtained from players in the previous 6 weeks or so. If you have a statement which is CURRENT, please do share it. If it's a copy of paste from something a few months ago, then it is only slightly relevant. It states their thoughts THEN which is not based on the feedback they have received since the game was launched and how a player feels about the CURRENT experience offered when they play the game. Feedback is not just about suggesting new items and new ideas, it is also about feeding back on how a player views current mechanics and systems in the game.

    By all means they may look at this thread and think 'nope don't care, sorry we like what the game is now, this is what we aimed for and this is what we hoped to achieve', if you have something like that please do share it and I will stop debating this. Otherwise, previous quotes only have a limited worth. We have raised this issue, at the very least we need an official CURRENT statement from Rare if they want to ignore this issue, because many players feel this way (including all of the new faces which are appearing in support of this suggestion).

    Oh and your previous reply to @TouchDown1504 is utter rubbish. This suggestion is NOT compromising game design and devs intentions, because at the very core of this idea we do NOT want to affect the paranoia and risk associated with having loot on the open ocean. If implemented properly this idea will NOT compromise that. What do you not understand about that? You will STILL need to go to an outpost to get most of your reward.

  • TouchDown1504
    Insider
    Founder

    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 I think this is where I differ in the entire discussion. I feel XP should be awarded for the tasks an individual completes. For three reasons.

    1. It is XP. "Experience Points". Players should be rewarded for engaging in the wider game. Killing skeletons, Krakens, even other crews. It would encourage wider gameplay.

    2. It fits thematically, although I don't care about that, a great number of people do. A pirate's Reputation should be based on accomplishments, not deliveries (although those can count some too).

    3. Timing, as I mentioned to one of the local trolls (see above posting) would virtually guarantee that no one ever logs out without zero XP as long as they engaged with the game in some fashion. Which snowballs into all of the other bennies we covered dozens of times.

    Anyhow, I do believe that is where I part ways with most in the discussion. I say as I did early on, it is a system that would take time to implement (guessing, because I am not a code monkey). Which is why, if you look WAY back in the thread) I said early on that as a foundation to change, and a band aid to stem the tide, Just award the reputation on "VC". But that part has been lost in discussion. Page 1, around the 7 or 8 post.

    The thing is, I do completely agree with you. The reason I changed my mind is because someone pointed out that it would probably be far easier for Rare to program exp gains on 'voyage complete' and just add a bonus there. Your idea would make this EVEN MORE fulfilling for a PvE player, I don't think skeletons should award much if any exp to be quite honest, because I see them more as a pest then a threat... not worthy of exp, but skeleton captains could EACH award rep, and each chest successfully located could provide rep etc.. The kraken should award some... the storm (not too much so that everyone guns for the storm as a form of grinding, but maybe if a player is in the storm for at least a certain length of time, they are awarded some exp/rep for successfully braving the dangerous waters as it were). PLUS if this was the case it would finally function more as reputation!

    The reason I changed my mind is purely because I'm happy with either solution (as I've never really had an issue with losing loot while completing a voyage, it's always been while at sea.. so the bonus on VC would make me happy) and to make it easier for Rare...

    They could always implement VC bonus as a temporary measure and then depending on player feedback add more rep for the other bits and bobs which does make more cohesive sense. And yea this discussion sure has got long now xD

    I didn't want to quote, but it so far back it would be lost in translation.

    I know you agree. Here is the thing, The other day I skimmed back through the thread, I re-read quite a bit of it. A couple things came to mind as I browsed the amazing ideas being put forth by so many people in support of having Reputation awarded for more than just a turn in.

    The first is numbers, percentages, etc. I decided that discussing a percentage, or a numbers based solution does nothing here. We don't know what the numbers are, we cannot place a numerical value on even one Captain's Chest. So, getting lost in the "numbers" is a senseless exercise in discussion. It literally leads no where. Unless someone wants to track everything they turn in for about the first 10 promotions. Then we could sit down and come up with an equation that would put us in the ballpark. That someone won't be me LOL.

    Second, with the exception of a very small hand full of people everyone here agrees on one thing. The rewards system as is (currently) is unsatisfying. Regardless of what angle a poster is coming from, there is obvious discontent in how the rewards (Gold and/or Reputation) are handled. Going through other threads is where the exact same sentiment pops up over and over again. As well as other social media, including Rare's own Twitter.

    Third. The detractors from the idea have some valid points and concerns. However, those points and concerned were addressed on countless occasions. Go back through and see how many times the same "rebuttal" is asked of those who support, and how many times an answer is given. I have come to the conclusion that the Hardcore detractors are just here to have an argument. this is their entertainment. If anything it is a distraction from the core of the conversation, which very well may be the goal. One dude has posts filled with outright made up nonsense as if it is fact. If you confront him on it, he brushes it aside and drives on. Probably some politicians kid.

    Finally, the truth in all of this is Sea of Thieves is a business model. It is gaming as a service. Case and point, the Chips Ahoy cookies code my daughter redeemed this morning. It is about making money. Rare and Microsoft will either adjust to insure they maintain the largest paying player base possible, or the plug will get pulled. That is the reality. I don't know if the ideas here would maintain a larger player base. What I do know is there are 4 people, myself and my kids, that would be much more motivated to play. And I am sure there are more then just us 4 ! A whole hell of a lot more.

  • TouchDown1504
    Insider
    Founder

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    A forest with 3 wolves and 300 rabbits is in balance, despite there not being an equal number of wolves and rabbits.

    Currently in Sea of Thieves, there are a balanced number of predators (PvPers) vs prey (PvEers). Anything you do that incentivizes one more than they other upsets that balance.

    So...this wasn't you simply pulling Facts out of your magic hat?
    (the emphasis in bold is mine, so everyone knows)
    Then you are going to come in here and say one side of the argument is invalid because it is based in emotion, the other is completely valid because it is based all in fact? You have zero credibility sir, go back and look at your posts filled with the same nonsense "facts".

    The fact you have to resort to outright lying shows exactly the strength of the original idea.

    No, I'm saying you're holding counter arguments to a higher standard than your own, when yours is the one that is contrary to the game design and the intentions of the devs.

    It doesn't make for a very compelling argument on your part.

    "Currently in Sea of Thieves, there are a balanced number of predators (PvPers) vs prey (PvEers)."

    You still are not answering where you got this information. Weave and dodge all you want. Your credibility is [mod edited]. You don't have to like the ideas here, but making up facts and lies to discredit them ? What does that say about you? (rhetorical question BTW, we all know what it says about you)

  • AngryCoconut16

    @touchdown1504 With you on that, I'd be more motivated for sure. I'm literally so against PvP at the moment because 1) there is no real incentive (but this is another thread) but mainly 2) I voyage a lot and if I have loot I don't want to go anywhere near PvP! having said that I have done it a handful of times and it is so fun! If this change was implemented I'd be so more up for PvP.

    The number of players who have left.. I'm sure this idea would help retain a larger player base personally, and you are right we all agree it is just unfulfilling and not fun the current risk and feeling of loss is just too steep. Lets see what happens. I'm going to continue debating until we get an official statement from Rare on the matter anyhow.

  • TouchDown1504
    Insider
    Founder

    @angrycoconut16 Ok, guilty confession time....

    I rarely play at all now...But when I do, it is literally just to get into ship battles with myself and my kids. Honestly, the PvP is where I find the most "fun", but the least bit of rewards. Do we steal people's loot? Yes and No. Situation dependent. The one rule we do have is we do not attack solo sloops. Duo sloops are fair game! I will get back into doing voyages, maybe after the content drop, but as it stands now I pop in two times in a week for an hour or so, and that is it.

  • lotrmith
    Marauder
    Insider

    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    Their statements have been quoted in this thread. You have chosen to ignore them.

    You can't just take a quote and assume that Rare STILL hold that opinion! The game was released March 20th, if their quote was before that, it is not a statement of what they currently think based on what they have learnt and the feedback they have obtained from players in the previous 6 weeks or so. If you have a statement which is CURRENT, please do share it. If it's a copy of paste from something a few months ago, then it is only slightly relevant. It states their thoughts THEN which is not based on the feedback they have received since the game was launched and how a player feels about the CURRENT experience offered when they play the game. Feedback is not just about suggesting new items and new ideas, it is also about feeding back on how a player views current mechanics and systems in the game.

    By all means they may look at this thread and think 'nope don't care, sorry we like what the game is now, this is what we aimed for and this is what we hoped to achieve', if you have something like that please do share it and I will stop debating this. Otherwise, previous quotes only have a limited worth. We have raised this issue, at the very least we need an official CURRENT statement from Rare if they want to ignore this issue, because many players feel this way (including all of the new faces which are appearing in support of this suggestion).

    Oh and your previous reply to @TouchDown1504 is utter rubbish. This suggestion is NOT compromising game design and devs intentions, because at the very core of this idea we do NOT want to affect the paranoia and risk associated with having loot on the open ocean. If implemented properly this idea will NOT compromise that. What do you not understand about that? You will STILL need to go to an outpost to get most of your reward.

    How far you gonna keep moving that goalpost? Seems any piece of evidence, quote, idea, or opinion contrary to yours gets dismissed off hand simply because it goes against your gut feeling.

  • Skyewauker
    Insider

    @touchdown1504 Im on the same boat. I rarely play either. Its just not fun atm.

    The grind, losing your s**t, not much to do lol.

    The game has gone down hill fast.

  • lotrmith
    Marauder
    Insider

    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 Ok, guilty confession time....

    I rarely play at all now...But when I do, it is literally just to get into ship battles with myself and my kids. Honestly, the PvP is where I find the most "fun", but the least bit of rewards. Do we steal people's loot? Yes and No. Situation dependent. The one rule we do have is we do not attack solo sloops. Duo sloops are fair game! I will get back into doing voyages, maybe after the content drop, but as it stands now I pop in two times in a week for an hour or so, and that is it.

    So, your anecdotal evidence, gut feelings, and suppositions about the general state of the game and the average player's opinion are worth more, as a player who pops on twice a week, than those of players who play several hours a day at least, most days? Gotcha.

  • TouchDown1504
    Insider
    Founder

    @lotrmith Opinions are opinions and everyone's is worth an equal amount. There is nothing that separates the value of anyone's opinions because..well..they are opinions!

    So anyhow...about that whole balance thing...you know this one...

    @lotrmith said "Currently in Sea of Thieves, there are a balanced number of predators (PvPers) vs prey (PvEers)."

    How did you come to that conclusion...Other than just inventing it, this is not an opinion. This you stating a "fact". In that vain of thought, yeah my opinion is worth more, because I am not outright lying! You on the other hand...

  • lotrmith
    Marauder
    Insider

    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @lotrmith Opinions are opinions and everyone's is worth an equal amount. There is nothing that separates the value of anyone's opinions because..well..they are opinions!

    So anyhow...about that whole balance thing...you know this one...

    @lotrmith said "Currently in Sea of Thieves, there are a balanced number of predators (PvPers) vs prey (PvEers)."

    How did you come to that conclusion...Other than just inventing it, this is not an opinion. This you stating a "fact". In that vain of thought, yeah my opinion is worth more, because I am not outright lying! You on the other hand...

    It's an opinion same as yours (I never claimed otherwise) and it holds more weight because I play almost every day for several hours primarily to quest on four man galleons and we make decisions all session long about whether or not to engage other ships based on their likelihood of having loot worth our time, and we do forts whenever they pop.

    The game feels balanced, to me. I experience a fair number of crew vs crew battles every session. My crews do not fear other crews (skill, coordination) but are always on the lookout for enemy ships that want to fight because if we are not, it is an unnecessary risk. This adds up to our collective experience in Sea of Thieves and contributes to the atmosphere we experience being one of excitement, risk, and reward. We play for the progress but it comes so slowly at advanced levels that even an entire multiple-hour session's worth of loot lost is just a drop in the bucket and not worth crying about. You, on the other hand, want a reward for every single Castaway's chest you find without even having to go through the effort of handing it in.

    Even taking this thread as evidence, it's got 286 upvotes in 23 days, for an average of about 12 upvotes a day by virtue of it being constantly bumped to the top by a few vocal supporters and opponents. You think 12 upvotes a day represents an overwhelming majority opinion? You think 286 players in a month is representative of the entire playerbase?

  • TouchDown1504
    Insider
    Founder

    @lotrmith An opinion would have been stated with the beginning of your sentence saying something like...

    "I believe...." or "I think...." followed up the rest of the statement. You stated it as if it was fact. Furthermore, the hours you put in compared to someone else means jack and nothing. Should we start talking about how much membership time we have in these forums or your lack of Insider and Founders tags? NO. Why? Because they don't mean anything. My little forum tags and time here do not invalidate your opinions. Just like someone playing less time their opinions are not invalidated by your hours upon hours of gameplay.

    I am not sure what to think now. Either you think so highly of yourself that you believe your own b******t, or you realize you dug a hole by lying like that openly in a forum and can't find a way to back pedal out of it. Real easy...just apologize for lying and say you'd like to retract what you said in error, and the situation is done. THEN you can start trying to rebuild some credibility. You invalidated your opinions and are making them worse with a pathetic attempt to weasel out of it.

    @lotrmith said "The game feels balanced, to me." Go back through your posts. You tell everyone that say its unbalanced they are wrong. And you purport everything you are saying as being truthful and fact. If you like I can do it for you...we can make a big list.

    Guess what hundreds on this forum, hundreds in Reddit, hundreds in other places are saying "The game feels unbalanced to me"!

    Boom Opinions!

  • lotrmith
    Marauder
    Insider

    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @lotrmith An opinion would have been stated with the beginning of your sentence saying something like...

    "I believe...." or "I think...." followed up the rest of the statement. You stated it as if it was fact. Furthermore, the hours you put in compared to someone else means jack and nothing. Should we start talking about how much membership time we have in these forums or your lack of Insider and Founders tags? NO. Why? Because they don't mean anything. My little forum tags and time here do not invalidate your opinions. Just like someone playing less time their opinions are not invalidated by your hours upon hours of gameplay.

    I am not sure what to think now. Either you think so highly of yourself that you believe your own b******t, or you realize you dug a hole by lying like that openly in a forum and can't find a way to back pedal out of it. Real easy...just apologize for lying and say you'd like to retract what you said in error, and the situation is done. THEN you can start trying to rebuild some credibility. You invalidated your opinions and are making them worse with a pathetic attempt to weasel out of it.

    @lotrmith said "The game feels balanced, to me." Go back through your posts. You tell everyone that say its unbalanced they are wrong. And you purport everything you are saying as being truthful and fact. If you like I can do it for you...we can make a big list.

    Guess what hundreds on this forum, hundreds in Reddit, hundreds in other places are saying "The game feels unbalanced to me"!

    Boom Opinions!

    You've dismissed everyone else's opinion that is contrary to yours, even when supported by stronger evidence.

  • TouchDown1504
    Insider
    Founder

    @lotrmith Stronger "evidence" you mean like the evidence you like to give? Made up nonsense. @lotrmith said "Currently in Sea of Thieves, there are a balanced number of predators (PvPers) vs prey (PvEers)."

    Yes, I dismissed that. Because that "evidence" does not exist. It is a flat out lie, as we have gone over a few times now. And yes it is often I dismiss much of what you say, because your earliest comments are both arrogant and condescending. Its not so much what you write I am dismissing, but you, yourself in general. Does that make better sense? why does it matter to you anyway? Apparently what anyone says in support of a change is wrong "based in emotion" and not fact (like your facts!) Bro, you can't fix this. Well, I guess you can go back and edit your "opinion". Anyhow, just a suggestion...

    I am now back on topic. The rewards system blows, I believe it needs some change!

  • lotrmith
    Marauder
    Insider

    @touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @lotrmith Stronger "evidence" you mean like the evidence you like to give? Made up nonsense. @lotrmith said "Currently in Sea of Thieves, there are a balanced number of predators (PvPers) vs prey (PvEers)."

    Yes, I dismissed that. Because that "evidence" does not exist. It is a flat out lie, as we have gone over a few times now. And yes it is often I dismiss much of what you say, because your earliest comments are both arrogant and condescending. Its not so much what you write I am dismissing, but you, yourself in general. Does that make better sense? why does it matter to you anyway? Apparently what anyone says in support of a change is wrong "based in emotion" and not fact (like your facts!) Bro, you can't fix this. Well, I guess you can go back and edit your "opinion". Anyhow, just a suggestion...

    I am now back on topic. The rewards system blows, I believe it needs some change!

    I mean, it is a matter of fact that your opinion on the state of when loot rewards should be given is directly contrary to that of the developers, both in outright statement and in implementation both current and since launch.

    • We've made decisions where all quest rewards are physical, and all of that stuff is never truly yours until you get back to the outpost. We believe in the paranoia of having that stuff on the ship because you know that someone can come and take it.
  • GraiIs
    Ship Mate

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    • We've made decisions where all quest rewards are physical, and all of that stuff is never truly yours until you get back to the outpost. We believe in the paranoia of having that stuff on the ship because you know that someone can come and take it.

    Literally everyone in this thread arguing for and against the new rewards right now is aware of this sentiment and agrees with it. We don't want to break the system. We just want to be more encouraged to engage in all the games systems, actually finishing voyages, reasons to PvP, fighting skeletons that aren't captains, etc, without it being a completely all or nothing endevor. The Division had big complaints with the dark zone and had to do major overhauls, and it's not even the only option to play and gain loot. Pve only servers are a really bad idea, and would kill the game completely, so we're just looking for a good middle ground. I think the belief that adding rep reward on VC would encourage a more varied playstyle is a fair one, and hasnt really been explored by any detractors.

  • lotrmith
    Marauder
    Insider

    @graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    • We've made decisions where all quest rewards are physical, and all of that stuff is never truly yours until you get back to the outpost. We believe in the paranoia of having that stuff on the ship because you know that someone can come and take it.

    Literally everyone in this thread arguing for and against the new rewards right now is aware of this sentiment and agrees with it. We don't want to break the system. We just want to be more encouraged to engage in all the games systems, actually finishing voyages, reasons to PvP, fighting skeletons that aren't captains, etc, without it being a completely all or nothing endevor. The Division had big complaints with the dark zone and had to do major overhauls, and it's not even the only option to play and gain loot. Pve only servers are a really bad idea, and would kill the game completely, so we're just looking for a good middle ground. I think the belief that adding rep reward on VC would encourage a more varied playstyle is a fair one, and hasnt really been explored by any detractors.

    Agreeing with that statement and not wanting loot to be all or nothing are two irreconcilable stances. The idea is that all of the reward, all of the rep and gold, is physically manifest in the individual pieces of loot and you get none of it without making it back to an outpost and handing it in. Adding in any kind of bonus either upon discovery or voyage completion that is not physically manifest in the piece of loot itself and able to be completely lost to another crew is directly contrary to that statement.

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