Purchasing Supplies

  • Killer Jay17
    Seafarer

    As I'm sure this has already been suggested, I couldn't find a thread on it.

    SO, I really do enjoy this game. It's a lot of fun, and I like the aspect that you actually have to put work into this game to get the full experience.

    One of my gripes though are getting ready to attack Forts or Skelly Ships. You have to spend 30mins -1hr simply preparing for battle by gathering supplies, go to another island, and gather more supplies. I'm not saying I hate this, but sometimes you just wanna jump in real quick, attack some forts/skelly ships/other ships and hop off. To really do anything in this game, you need to commit a solid 2 hours to playing this game; gathering supplies, sailing, attacking, and then returning to outposts if you have booty. And if you sink, you need to start all over.

    Idea: Add a market where you can buy cannons/planks/bananas. Now before you say "this will make to easy to grief people/too easy/ etc." make the supplies expensive.
    For example: 25% of supplies could cost like 10k gold. To fully load your ship up could cost like 50k. So if you have a crew of 4, you each can spend 10k on supplies so you can have a fully loaded ship, ready to go, instead of spending an hour drag going to different places collecting supplies. It would also be really helpful when you ALMOST kill a fort/skelly ship but sink, so you can buy supplies and rush back over before it resets.

    Just my 2 cents, curious on your guys thoughts or opinions are.

    -Killer Jay17
    (Also said to be the best pirate around)

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  • Nayfe P
    Master
    Insider

    @killer-jay17 I feel like there may be a hint towards supply purchasing with the chalkboard at every merchant alliance trader, it shows cannon balls and bananas for a kinda smudged price.
    And a third smudged out "supply" which doesn't seem to be planks.

    I feel this is a little nudge towards a trade agreement between outposts, with different buy/sell prices at each outpost.

    It's just an assumption through observations but hey could be something there.

  • Killer Jay17
    Seafarer

    @nayfe-pacewell I've noticed that as well. I sure hope so, cause I mean come on, you're telling me none of those dang NPCs need cannons, planks, or even bananas! Lazy sons of guns.

  • Emmire9573
    Marauder

    @nayfe-pacewell I hope so.

  • KushKaptain96

    @killer-jay17 love the idea actually suggested it this morning. Its on here. Glad to see im not the only one

  • KushKaptain96

    @Nabberwar

  • WLBCrash
    Marauder

    This would create a horrible imbalance between newer players and those who have merely been playing a while.

  • KushKaptain96

    @BecauseSCIENCE1 @Killer-Jay17 @Nayfe-Pacewell. I like the idea please check out my thread too maybe leave and opinion [mod edited] if you like the idea
    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/70482/supplies/21

  • KushKaptain96

    @crash4654 not really. Newest players would just have to go find it. I think it would actually bridge the gap between those who want to spend half their playtime gathering, and those who just want to play the game.

  • Ever Reddy
    Commander
    Insider
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @killer-jay17 I have to say I'm not a fan of purchasing supplies as if it's for a large sum it'll give more experienced players an advantage over newer players and if it's a small amount to negate that issue then it'll be pretty meaningless anyway.

    I think the best idea I've heard is to allow ships to resupply to half full for free, but with a cooldown of an hour or so.

  • Killer Jay17
    Seafarer

    @crash4654 I'm not saying it wouldn't create an imbalance, (and lets be honest, it wouldn't be "horrible") but that's why I suggest making it a high priced item. Make players think twice before they make the purchase because of the high cost. Make it more of a "I need supplies now" type deal, but something you can only do on special occasions/events.

    KillerJay17
    (Also known as the best pirate)

  • Crimsonraziel
    Master
    Insider

    @killer-jay17 said in Purchasing Supplies:

    As I'm sure this has already been suggested, I couldn't find a thread on it.

    Buying ship supplies
    Merchant Company Trade Route and Buying Planks, Bananas, and Cannonballs
    Purchasing supplies for gold?
    A Variety of Suggestions
    Resources gathering
    Purchase crates of supplies for gold.
    ...

  • Killer Jay17
    Seafarer

    @ever-reddy (Sorry for double post) Agreed, it would give a slight advantage over newer players, that's why i saying make it a high price of gold to pay, so its not something people can do every time they respawn. (But lets be honest, WE WORKED FOR OUR GOLD!) I'm simply trying to find a solution to reduce the grind we all have to do gathering supplies. For the groups who want to hop on for a quick sail, gather some loot, then hop off. It just sucks sometimes having to take an hour gathering supplies to do a fort/skelly ship.

    As for the half resupply and a cooldown every hour or so, I like it.

    KillerJay17
    (The Best Sailor Around)

  • Killer Jay17
    Seafarer

    @crimsonraziel This is why I keep you around.

    KillerJay17
    (Also known as the best looking pirate)

  • Hynieth
    Master
    Insider

    At this moment a crew that's well prepared has an advantage at forts, with your suggestion a crew with money will pay for that same advantage.

    I like the progression where you start a game with an empty ship and over time get more powerfull. The cursed cannonballs and Rowboats will even help in this since those too are things you'll find.

    This is why I say let it stay the way it is.
    I won't mind having more cannonballs in barrels on islands and barrels of plenty tho. They are a bit scarce since you can carry 10 and are full on planks and bananas while still only on 3/10 with cannonballs more often then not.

  • Killer Jay17
    Seafarer

    @hynieth I completely agree! A well prepared crew definitely has an advantage, and I don't want to take the resource gathering aspect of the game away, and I love that aspect of "You gotta work if you wanna play/win"
    It can just be so boring sometimes to have to gather resources when all you wanna do is hop on real quick and shoot some stuff. I totally understand peoples opinions of it being "unfair" or "unbalanced", and one of the solutions I can see is to just make the supplies stupid expensive. Make it something like "I'm willing to spend this much because this battle/session means that much to me."

    Again, I don't hate the current set up, just sometimes I get tired of the grind.

    KillerJay17
    (Known to never have been sunk)

  • Hynieth
    Master
    Insider

    @killer-jay17 As is right now I've never even used my full stock of supplies ever.

    The skeleton ships sure are a sponge to cannonballs but all you really need is one shot and someone to protect the hole.

    We're just wasting more because we like to make things go boom.

    With forts we often need a lot less cannonballs, most players have awefully bad strats and sink really fast and often cannonballs are needed to fend off multiple ships (this rarely happens, people seem to avoid forts when there's a galleon parked there).

    So It's not like you'll need all the supplies in most cases.
    Buying them at any cost would take away the progression aspect.

  • Stone0898
    Master
    Insider

    @killer-jay17

    Last night I spent an hour and a bit stocking up my sloop and collecting double figure gunpowder barrels, getting ready for the skeleton ship battle in the shores of plenty. Within the first 10 mins my sloop was sinking and all my hard work was for c**k all.

    Rather than do the same thing again I headed straight back to the fight with the bare minimum of supplies, and to cut a long story short - still managed to get the skelly ships sunk. When your cannonballs are all gone, the sloop makes a fine battering ram.

  • RedEyeSith
    Champion
    Insider

    I think that generally stocking up is on the players to get done as it is now, however, what I wouldn't mind seeing is an option in the "Ship Customization" chest at the Shipwright an option for both "Repair Hull" and "Restock Ship" respectively. The chest is already setup that if the ship isn't close enough it won't work so you can't use this "drive-by" style. All these would do is "Repair Hull" would remove damage from the ship and restore the Hull to pristine (many people want this) and "Restock Ship" would return any supplies that are below the initial spawn values to the initial spawn values. Basically, if you burn through your supplies you can get back to baseline at a Outpost, but a freshly spawned ship would still need to manually stock up.

    Just making these two quick selections available in the "Ship Customization" chest would work really smoothly, wouldn't give an advantage to any player over another, and doesn't really promote a system ready for griefing (instead it is a system that saves people needing to Scuttle for either of these basic purposes).

  • KushKaptain96

    @killer-jay17 exactly! I'm GRINDING when I'm fighting skeletons (ect..) I'm BORED when I'm gathering things. A restock option would make us all happy. I can spend my time gathering skulls like I want, and they can still spend their time gathering bananas like they want. Its not meant to be an advantage. Its meant to make one of the worst aspects of the game better, and get all these people picking up planks playing the game. Not everyone has 2 or 3 hours to play.

    if we were really sailors, these things would be payed for at the dock. Why make something that should be as simple as reality so difficult? Why do I a pirate want to waste my play time picking up sticks? I want to go shoot stuff and dig up treasure. And I have the hard earned gold to pay for it so let me!?

  • khaleesibot
    Master
    Founder

    Hey @kushkaptain96, really glad to see you're trying to collaborating to expand on your feedback! We don't allow posts to request for upvotes, so I've edited that out of your reply.

  • TuukkaTL
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @kushkaptain96 yeah, lets see how you think about that after someone exhausts all your supplies at a fort, because they keep coming back with full supplies after you sink them.

  • TuukkaTL
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @killer-jay17 You think it will be nice to do those forts if people can just buy supplies and come back ?

    Think about this, you are at fort, full supplies, a ship attacks you you use 2/3 of your supplies to sink them, they spawn few islands away from you. On their way back they go past the outpost and fully stock their ship. in 5-7 minutes they are back at you full supplies while you have 1/3 of yours. Who has the upper hand in this battle ?

    The forts end now when better crews sink worse crews, or if the crews are of similar skill, it's up to who has most supplies. If you are able to just stock your ship at outpost it, completely changes the balance of the game. The fort fights will last for hours, it doesn't take that long for a ship to get back to the fort, even from other side of the map.

  • QuixoticRocket
    Marauder

    @tuukkatl
    The problem here is people want to hoard the fort rewards to themselves. No one considers co-operation when it comes to forts.

    The ideal situation is some other pirates come along and you don't waste supplies fighting them off, but rather they add their supplies to your own to help take down the fort.

    Sure it means you need to split the loot but it also means the fort becomes much easier and quicker to do.

    But in the "shoot first, all loot is mine" mentality this just doesn't happen. So maybe allowing quick resupplies will make co-operation viable.

  • Crimsonraziel
    Master
    Insider

    @quixoticrocket Forts already are pretty easy. The only difficulty actually are competing crews. Besides that, as much as I like increasing friendly encounters, forts are PvP beacons and it should stay that way.

  • QuixoticRocket
    Marauder

    @crimsonraziel
    Forts are only pvp beacons because of the shoot first mentality. Rare always talked about co-operation in forts leading up to release and often went on about how they expected uneasy alliances to form to overcome the fort and then see how things hold out when dividing the loot.

    Obviously that plan didn't pan out at all.

    Imo they shouldn't be pvp beacons. Pvp doesn't need any encouragement. They should ramp up the difficulty of forts to push for cooperation and challenge, and then add some real pvp arena or games or something to which they can attach proper pvp rewards and commendations (without forcing pvp out into the entire world).

    But that's a major change. Adding an option to buy supplies, imo, shouldn't be blocked by fort pvp. The game desperately needs quality of life improvements and gold sinks, and this provides both.

  • RedEyeSith
    Champion
    Insider

    That and cooperation is already possible. Last night I worked in an alliance of 3 ships, we did a batch of Skeleton Ships and turned in with no problems. Since a Skull Fort was also up we went and cleared that too - one crew took skulls, one took gold hoarder stuff, and one took merchant stuff. No qualms at all.

    In fact, beyond that, I've done maybe 15 forts in my time (don't do them a ton, but do them sometimes), of those 5 are one ship and the rest were cooperative with only 3 betrayals in that mix (giving me 7 successful co-op ones).

  • TuukkaTL
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @quixoticrocket There is nothing wrong with that either. Sinking other ships and taking their stuff is part of the game. and like @Crimsonraziel said, forts are easy. Only difficulty comes from other crews. I'm sure rare didn't realize how easy the forts really are if you do them uncontested. I disagree with you, forts should be the beacon for pvp, those should be known as the places where you go fight. Where do you think those kill hungry people go if forts seized to be pvp ? They would either leave the game or hunt for other ships even more. Fort pvp isn't the only reason why I don't want to see resupply for money, all pvp is. You think those people who like to kill other ships are suddenly going to think that wow, we can buy supplies now! Lets be friends everyone!

    No, they will realize that now they don't have to worry about losing their hard gathered supplies since they can just buy full stock from outpost. Resupply for money will make it even more pvp oriented game, not more pve.

    The game becomes boring if everybody is just friends, part of the beauty of this game is fighting and allying with other crews. That's what makes it interesting. You gotta work for your stuff too, it makes the victory even sweeter. It feels nice to know that all the supplies you gathered on your way paid off and earned you that victory.

    To me it seems, people just want stuff instantly and easy without the risk of losing it. I think instant resupply for money would ruin big part of the game for me. Using your supplies smartly would become useless since you could just throw money at the screen and get everything instantly. No need to make every shot count anymore.

  • Nabberwar
    Lord
    Insider

    @kushkaptain96
    My opinions on this matter are still the same, but if Rare wants to make the change, so be it. The most I can do is discuss why I'm against it. As @Killer-Jay17 has stated some cost I will try to discuss specifically that with some other arguments made previously.

    He mentions using it to get in the action quick, but when will this be needed outside of this event? Skull Forts are mentioned, but is that fair to the Ship that won the previous fight? They are on limited supplies on what they could collect off island, or what they had on them. Meanwhile a ship could get a lucky spawn, while having the means to be more then prepped to take back the fort. This goes against the equal playing field that Rare wants. More gold equates to better chances then what a new player. At least with a Fresh spawn, they are at a disadvantage.

    We would also need to ask ourselves, if its even worth it? The amount of Gold gained from a fort doesn't remotely offset the cost previously named. It would be only worth maybe for the rep. At that point though, I would just hop to new server for a second go. If you sunk against that ship before whats saying they won't do it again?

    How about once this events over, do you need that much supplies? The answer is no, because this event is unique because people want to immediately go for Skeleton Fleets. If we follow Rare's patterns on post events, Ships will be more random, so the player base has downtime to do other things. They could be doing quests and the like, and at that point why not restock on supplies as you go?

    @KushKaptain96 I still enjoy the conversation though, we merely disagree. I like being able to restock on the go, it helps with the downtime. You can only move sails so often, at least while we sail I can shoot myself to islands and do something.

  • Nebenkuh

    If you are gathering supplies as a main activity you're doing it wrong.
    Just do whatever you want to do, and gather supplies on the side. Your crew should be cannoning themselves to every island, wreckage and supply barrel in range and then mermaid back to the ship. You'll have enough supplies when you arrive at your destination.

  • QuixoticRocket
    Marauder

    @tuukkatl
    You seem to miss the bit where I suggest a pvp alternative that can actually focus on pvp. I agree. With no additional work the forst will remain a pvp focus. I just think that's a waste.

    There should be a pvp arena for pvp focus where rewards and commendations can be given for more structured pvp with actual progression. There's a definite faction of the playerbase that wants more meaningful pvp and adding something like that would allow this without pushing pvp into the rest of the world more than it does.

    The only reason forts are pvp beacons is because that's the only real outlet for it at the moment.

    And I don't think everyone will be friends at all. If pvp is an option there will always be people who exercise that option even without any gain. I just don't see a "resupply for gold" option doing particularly much for or against pvp.

    but that's besides the case. I do see your point about gathering supplies making them seem more valuable and not wanting to waste them. It's a balancing act though. How much is resource management a part of the game? And is it a fun part? There's already resource management in your inventory (you can only carry a limited amount). What if they introduced a "pay for resources" option but also reduced the number of resources your ship can carry? This allows people to hop into the "fun" quicker, while also making resources valuable as they are more limited now?

    I don't think anyone really cares about losing resources. And by paying for them you're still losing something (money spent on resources) when you get sunk.

    It comes down to whether you think gathering supplies is fun and worth doing. I don't think the gathering part is fun. I want to head out and play the actual game, not spend half an hour prepping to head out. That part isn't fun for me. That's my opinion.

    EDIT:
    I'd like to see some sort of interaction on the islands with resources... like feeding planks into a steam engine to get a cart moving that you need to push across an island while fighting off skeletons or something... that would put resource management on an inventory level under stress and would be an actual fun use of resource management. (this is just a poorly thought out example of the sort of interactivity I wish were on the otherwise empty islands)

  • TuukkaTL
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @quixoticrocket Yeah no, this is just the age old, I don't want to be sunk by other players topic wrapped up in the lets supply with gold. No, both PvP and PvE belong together and they have said already that they will not do anything to separate the player base. Buying supplies allows you to get back into the action faster, so yeah it directly changes the balance, people who are tied at a specific point on the map ie. fort cannot sail to the outpost to resupply, without losing their foothold on the fort.

    I don't know why so many people whine first about having nothing to do and then they whine because there is something to do in the game.

    Resource management = Don't shoot unless you can hit, make sure you hit in the correct spot on the enemy ship (as in water line, or on the top deck if you are told ) every cannonball that hits the water is wasted cannonball. Reducing the amounts of supplies on the ship fixes nothing, just makes you buy them more often. The point is you could still buy them. And if you can, you will slowly stop caring if you hit or not, because you know you can have full stock in 5 minutes by sailing back to outpost and back.

    Fix the second level holes only if you really must, ( doesn't apply to brig).

    Gathering supplies is obviously worth doing because you guys are wanting to buy them instead of spending 10-15 minutes gathering them from the world while you move on to whatever you are going to do, be it voyages or forts, or just PvP.

    Instant gratification, that's what it is. I don't really want to work for my victory but I still want to win stuff!

  • QuixoticRocket
    Marauder

    @tuukkatl
    I think we're looking at this from 2 very different perspectives. You seem to be looking at this from a very pvp point of view and I'm looking at this from a more pve point of view.

    I don't pvp much so I'll concede to your viewpoints in that regard. Obviously I may be overlooking the importance there.

    However, from my point of view I'm not trying to outresource another player. I want to jump in and start voyages. In one sence, yes, it's instant gratification because I don't want to do 30 minutes of work just to start having fun playing a game. I want to start on my voyage quickly.

    And this is a pretty straw man argument here: "I don't know why so many people whine first about having nothing to do and then they whine because there is something to do in the game."
    If they added some tax forms for you to fill out in the game I would definitely complain about having to do that. It's not about "adding stuff to do" it's about adding fun things that engage players. If they add something unfun / boring then obviously it's going to garner complaints because the game is meant to be about having fun. Imagine if you had to sharpen all your swords for 15 minutes before setting out... fun? no. something to do? yes. fitting to the setting? yes. fitting for a game? not really.

    As I say, I guess there's a larger impact on pvp than I see. I don't think this is "the age old, I don't want to be sunk by other players topic wrapped up in the lets supply with gold". It very much isn't from me. I think the different mindsets to approaching the game give very different impressions of this, so be wary of presuming someone's reasons for asking something. Just because you can't see why they'd want it or disagree with it doesn't mean they don't have a good reason that isn't just trying to avoid pvp.

    Most people who don't want to be sunk by other players probably don't think having more resources is going to stop that. If it unbalances pvp significantly then cool, that's a valid reason to say no, but I really don't think it's a defence against pvp from people who prefer pve or don't want to be sunk. I honestly think it's people who want to get out rolling on doing things (skelly ships or voyages) without doing 30 minutes of up front boring work.

  • TuukkaTL
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @quixoticrocket The thing is, I do both, pve and pvp equally. (edit: with the scale tipping more to PvE) Mostly PvE. When I log in, I just take my inventory full from the outpost, put down a voyage, ill just loot while I sail. I see barrels in the water, ill jump there and let the ship continue. Take mermaid back, pass a fort, ill jump there and then take my inventory full again. After doing this for one voyage, i have pretty good amount of supplies.

    Of course it creates imbalance in pvp, it means people with more money can lob more stuff at you.

    Now if you are at fort, and you get attacked you spend some amount of your supplies in fighting the attacker off, they sink. They come back 5-10 minutes later, they probably rushed there to get there before you finish it. They wont have 300 cannonballs and 100 planks and bananas. You still hold upper hand in terms of supplies or close to equal.

    Now all that will change if you can just buy full supplies. Every. single. ship. will have full supplies every single time they come there. Even the one you sank 10 minutes ago. The guys who were at the fort first, will have worse hand every time after the first fight compared to crews coming there. The first fight if the crews are equal skill is even match, but after that the winner of the first fight is in worse position automatically.

    When you bought the game you knew it had PvP in it. It always had, and that was always one of the selling points. That your treasure isn't yours until you've sold it at outpost. It's a game about pirates, and being backstabbed and sank is part of the game.

    Getting those supplies is part of the journey, even if it would be boring. My crew usually gathers on the way just jumping for barrels, islands shipwrecks and forts are the only place we stop by to get few quick barrels. You don't need full supply to beat the skellies. You need a good crew who knows how to manage supplies.

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