TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM

@scheneighnay said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@bloodybil said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@bloodybil Well then happy trolling. Congrats on taking pleasure in helping drive players out of the game. You obviously seem to prioritize yourself vs the whole. Personally Id like to everyone win and get what they want. But in general bullies seldom chose to to face those with an equal propensity for confrontation so it makes sense theyd target the unwilling. At least in the digital space theres no real threat and they can live out whatever power fantasies thrill them. To me that seems reprehensible.

Thanks, I'll keep driving players away from the game by chasing them to donate loot!
Keep trying to look virtuous and assign malicious intents to everybody you encounter instead of communicating with them.

You gotta do a stealth trade and swap their loot for yours.
Or have one crew member spawnkill them while you fill their barrels with supplies and dump treasure on their ship.

Haha, reminds me of one time in the first months of the game, where by chance my sloopmate and I had the same livery as another anchored ship at an island (lot less cosmetics back then). We sank them while they were busy and placed our ship where theirs was. The confusion and overall situation upon their return was quite funny :P.

@bloodybil I judge a person by their actions and if the way they have fun is ruining others fun that is worthy of judgment. I do agree though that PVP is an important element to the game but its certainly not the focus or even a fully equal component. If it was then the mechanics would be polished and debugged and more PVP content, events and modes would have been developed. Lastly its hard not to take things to personally as we all know how long some voyages can take. Theyre a real time investment and many unlike me cant play 8 hours a day. Those who specialize in unethical variants of PVP actively disrespect that time and prioritize their own fun at their expense. Thats kinda personal. That sucked someones time away for giggle with only a 15 min investment as they server hop. But thats all I really have to say about that.

Well Im off to Sail for a while. Thank you all for the input and advice and perspectives. It was kind of you to donate your time energies and expertise to the topic. I will not be replying till likely this evening but again thank you all and I hope the knowledge shared helps my crew and myself improve as to lessen our growing fustrations

@count-drogos I mean you are literally implying that unless I ask your permission and get confirmed consent to pvp, then it's toxic of me to attempt to sink you and get your loot.

@count-drogos the context of spawn camping is a key piece of information here. If you listen to the sot official podcast the devs acknowledged that it is actually a flaw in their design that spawn camping is required to actually secure the sink. It has become even more so with reduced times on the ferry all round. Especially with a sloop it is so easy to recover that short of using constant blunderbombs and curses, you won't be able to sink a competent crew without boarding and killing them.

Yes people who choose to pvp are enforcing their preferred playstyle on others without their permission, but that's very much within the mechanics and intention of the game design so I don't see how it can be toxic

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@bloodybil I judge a person by their actions and if the way they have fun is ruining others fun that is worthy of judgment. I do agree though that PVP is an important element to the game but its certainly not the focus or even a fully equal component. If it was then the mechanics would be polished and debugged and more PVP content, events and modes would have been developed. Lastly its hard not to take things to personally as we all know how long some voyages can take. Theyre a real time investment and many unlike me cant play 8 hours a day. Those who specialize in unethical variants of PVP actively disrespect that time and prioritize their own fun at their expense. Thats kinda personal. That sucked someones time away for giggle with only a 15 min investment as they server hop. But thats all I really have to say about that.

You may view it this way, but pvp is one of the corner stones that this game was built on. Whether or not the crew on the horizon is a friend or foe. When you see another player barreling towards you, its very easy to guess their motives. Having fun sinking boats and stealing loot is not "ruining others fun" it is simply playing Sea of Thieves as intended.

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@bloodybil I judge a person by their actions and if the way they have fun is ruining others fun that is worthy of judgment. I do agree though that PVP is an important element to the game but its certainly not the focus or even a fully equal component.

I just wanted to point out the obvious, you are complaining about losing in PvP, in a game, a pirate game nonetheless, where the objective is to make gold. This is not a treasure hunting game, this game titled “Sea of THIEVES”, is a pirate game, and the name of the game itself promotes THIEVING which is STEALING. The act of thieving or stealing implies that the treasure was not yours to begin with but *someone else’s * , hence why it’s called stealing.

Dont get me wrong, it sucks when you are trying to be casual and a person joins a server and immediately makes their objective to rob you, but they aren’t playing the game wrong. This game is a sandbox MMO where different types of players are pushed into forced interactions. I’m a passive player who runs merchant, but because I’m a great pirate, I have a 70% success rate of either escaping or murdering those who pursue me.

Yes it sucks when you’re like me and a lot of other players who are working parents that only have a few hours a week to play this game and you just want to do something quick and get off. But choosing to do PvE is your choice and your freedom.

You don’t know if someone who sank you, is just like you though. That random sloop who loaded in, bought some supplies, and then made it their directive to sink the first ship they saw (which could be you), could very well be a working parent who doesn’t have 6 hours of time to spend doing PvE to make gold. They could be working a full time job with two kids and hopped on Sea of Thieves with only an hour or two to try to make as much gold as possible. If that means sinking a casual player who spent 7 hours getting loot, well, they deserve it then if they sank the enemy ship.

Some PvPers are old players who used to play for 14 hours a day during the Covid Shutdown, and now they have limited time. So having limited time and having plentiful PvP skill, instead of being able to do something more casual to make gold, they have to PvP and sink someone in order to maximize their profit considering their limited time.

@hiradc Im saying people that suffer lose after lose will leave the game and those that make it theirs lifes work to do so bear the guilt Less players and less skilled players are bad for everyone who loves the game.

@captain-coel You can play the game within its boundries and still ruin others fun. And just because the game allows for something doesnt mean it was intended IE spawn camping

@robby0316 Im not complaining about losing . I accept I have little skill in PVP and losses are a byproduct. I was vocalizing how the Toxic mindset that promotes trolling via the shield statement Its a pirate game is problematic and has and will continue to lead to less players and less people willing to engage in PVP . If PVPers were looking for a challenge and to test their skills the Arena would still be open but its not because low hanging fruit is easier

@animeowl0807 Ok I think those are vaild points but how can the stakes be any lower than to fight folks that arent any real threat ? Or having a 15 min server hopping blank ship to Reaper in? Theres no stakes in that ... At least for the PVPer ...just upsides. It wasnt an effective money maker....ok How much harder is it now find someone willing to engage or who wont run for 30 minutes. Sure you might sink them and collect what change they had aboard but the decrease in players and those willing to actually fight vs sailing into the red before scuttling has to hurt the bottom line much worse.Im not saying all pvp is evil . Ambushes for example are fair game as keeping your head on a swivel is he defenders responsibility but hounding after a singular ship for said 30 min seems excessive and serves mostly to harm the other players expirience and to sour the game for a large portion of your fellow players.

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@robby0316 Im not complaining about losing . I accept I have little skill in PVP and losses are a byproduct. I was vocalizing how the Toxic mindset that promotes trolling via the shield statement Its a pirate game is problematic and has and will continue to lead to less players and less people willing to engage in PVP . If PVPers were looking for a challenge and to test their skills the Arena would still be open but its not because low hanging fruit is easier

Sadly from my personal experience with arena, most people who played arena were actually on PC and were double gunning but weren’t actually good at PvP. I’ve played with 14 year olds who have PC who played sea of thieves for 3 months and had the “skill” of a seasoned pc player who only plays arena.

Even though I’m a console only server kind of guy, arena, because less than 2% played, I would always end up being kicked into PC servers.

What I’m trying to say is that arena wasn’t a place to test your skill, and people in arena did not have skill but rather just a PC and a mouse and keyboard that they can flick around, swap weapons, shoot again, and basically insta kill anyone they want. Not to mention aimbot.

The PC faction of SoT was so toxic and full of cheaters that they went from being the majority of players to making up less than 30% of total SoT players (this paragraph is based on what I’ve read on the internet).

If you’re on console and want to test your skills against other players with actual skill, then arena is not for you. I have encountered a lot of great players on x box in adventure mode. Don’t get me wrong, a lot of people will use mouse and keyboard on x box which grinds my gears.

Personally I always check stats in “recently played with” before I attempt to PvP.

PvP can be good and bad, reapers can be annoying to new players which is bad for new players . But two days ago, I checked the stats of a crew being attacked by a brigantine, so I decided to sink the skeleton ship that was 3rd partying them, allow the sloop to get the loot, i offered alliance to the sloop, and then proceeded to chase after the brigantine with the sloop following behind me. The brig crashed into me, I boarded them, dropped anchor, killed the entire crew, all while the sloop is shooting holes into them. They sank but then the new sloop player (one of two) shot me with a sniper, apologized, and before I could board my ship to repair it I was bitten by a shark and spawned on an island. I sent the sloop crew a friend request and now plan on helping them on their adventures as a PvP shield.

So PvP can be “bad” and can also be welcomed depending on if it’s helping you or hurting you.

@robby0316 Thank you for explaining your point. I really appreciate it. I can see how the Arena could have been fustrating as similar issues still dog Adventure mode. I can agree not all PVP is bad . As a matter of fact I acknowledge its importance. I simply wished Rare would look at a way of balancing the formula ie forcing reapers to have some skin in the game or to make weapons even deadlier so a lucky hit might earn a victory for those that would otherwise be slaughtered regardless. Incentivize PVP combat whether bw reapers or a new faction of stewards or guardians .I also wished the communiy would police itself vs relying on the shield statement of is a pirate game when their action knowing lead others to abandon the game in significant numbers. There has to be a way we can make it a win win

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@captain-coel You can play the game within its boundries and still ruin others fun. And just because the game allows for something doesnt mean it was intended IE spawn camping

People need to understand that they can and will lose. Going out with my friends and hunting down every boat we can find is fun. We aren't doing it to ruin other people's fun, we are doing it because fighting other pirates is fun. They are unpredictable and this makes it fun.

And hunting pirates is not just something the game allows, it is designed and encouraged game play by the developers.

@captain-coel I can accept that your intention is to find your fun and not to ruin someones day . Still intent only goes so far when the outcome remains the same. Sure you have every right to chase someone down and dominate them for YOUR own fun and to a certain degree I can understand the appeal . I think its self absorbed to put YOUR personal enjoyment at such a priority as to willfully take actions that can and does lead to players just like you to sour on and quit the game when other alternatives exist to meet your same needs. Why hunt every ship when there are Reapers or grade 4 and 5 emissaries ? Wouldnt these people ofer the higher challenge and greater rewards ? Why mess with the blank sloop fishing or perched on a shrine doing a tall tale? I dunno to each their own I suppose .

@animeowl0807 I disagree that only Spawn camping is Toxic but I do agree that ruining people expirience is toxic. So its a Pirate game...Fair enough . Wheres the parley ? Wheres the pressing to service? Wheres the customary tribute for safe passage? True fact most Pirates didnt ransack ships but rather took a small tax on merchant ships for safe passage and thats historical . Wheres that in the narrative of its a pirate game? Wheres the swashbuckling instead of the halo like jump combat? It just seems the Pirate game trope is deployed too often to excuse bad behavior instead of holding ourself to the standards of the romantic notions from the Golden Age of Piracy which were the inspiration for this game and for which this game is a love letter to.

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@animeowl0807 I disagree that only Spawn camping is Toxic but I do agree that ruining people expirience is toxic. So its a Pirate game...Fair enough . Wheres the parley ? Wheres the pressing to service? Wheres the customary tribute for safe passage? True fact most Pirates didnt ransack ships but rather took a small tax on merchant ships for safe passage and thats historical . Wheres that in the narrative of its a pirate game? Wheres the swashbuckling instead of the halo like jump combat? It just seems the Pirate game trope is deployed too often to excuse bad behavior instead of holding ourself to the standards of the romantic notions from the Golden Age of Piracy which were the inspiration for this game and for which this game is a love letter to.

You wanna get into history and realistic pirates?
Trust me, you don't want to go down that rabbit hole...

@realwebber69 Thats my my point that we are not real pirates. That we dont have to behave in a way that harms other to enjoy the game. But if were are going to use Pirate as the shield then I would gladly go down the hole and discuss that most Pirates were privateers and mercenaries on Govt pay roles or the fact they didnt have free reign over the seas and rather avoided armadas. Should we have an NPC armada like ghost fleets that hunt down reapers that hit level 5? Should bounties be placed on them ? But seriously if you want to educate me by all means ...the worst that will happen is Ill learn something

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@captain-coel I can accept that your intention is to find your fun and not to ruin someones day . Still intent only goes so far when the outcome remains the same. Sure you have every right to chase someone down and dominate them for YOUR own fun and to a certain degree I can understand the appeal . I think its self absorbed to put YOUR personal enjoyment at such a priority as to willfully take actions that can and does lead to players just like you to sour on and quit the game when other alternatives exist to meet your same needs. Why hunt every ship when there are Reapers or grade 4 and 5 emissaries ? Wouldnt these people ofer the higher challenge and greater rewards ? Why mess with the blank sloop fishing or perched on a shrine doing a tall tale? I dunno to each their own I suppose .

We hunt the emissaries down first. Then any boat we can find. If someone plays this game and quits because of pvp, they are playing the wrong game. They should quit and go somewhere else.

@captain-coel And that sir is why weve lost almost 500k daily players in a year. Thats 1/4th of the peak number brought in by the Pirates life. I assume that the bulk of that are the new players that are supposed to reinvigorate the game.

@animeowl0807 Youre mistaken sir, Gimme a sword that kills like Ghost of Tsushima or a pistol that hits like a magnum revolver in COD and count me in . Make people unable to jump around like Gummy Bears and you can sign me up :). All joking aside I dont know what example to give you... If stalking isnt a valid form of toxicity Im not sure what you might accept

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@captain-coel And that sir is why weve lost almost 500k daily players in a year. Thats 1/4th of the peak number brought in by the Pirates life. I assume that the bulk of that are the new players that are supposed to reinvigorate the game.

And those players are not the target audience for this game. I have zero remorse for them. People should learn what kind of game they are buying/playing before getting angry about it. People consent to pvp the moment they sign on. PvP is one of the major aspects of this game, always has been and hopefully always will be.

@captain-coel said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:
... those players are not the target audience for this game. I have zero remorse for them.

Ok I believe you dont care and have zero remorse. I believe youre cool with being a part of the reason why new players wont stay . Thanks for your 2 cents

@animeowl0807 Ok Thank you for the civil discourse

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@captain-coel said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:
... those players are not the target audience for this game. I have zero remorse for them.

Ok I believe you dont care and have zero remorse. I believe youre cool with being a part of the reason why new players wont stay . Thanks for your 2 cents

If those new players understand the type of game they are playing they will stay. If they understand its about shenanigans and lols, they will stay. If they take loot too seriously and get upset when it gets stolen from them, oh well.

Never carry more than you are willing to lose.
Keep a look out for other ships/players.
Remember, you can scuttle.

Some players are pirates, some players are content. People have to pick.

@captain-coel said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@captain-coel said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:
... those players are not the target audience for this game. I have zero remorse for them.

Ok I believe you dont care and have zero remorse. I believe youre cool with being a part of the reason why new players wont stay . Thanks for your 2 cents

Some players are pirates, some players are content. People have to pick.

"Oh yeah you guys, other players are content, they aren't even worthy of being classed as people!"
"... Why are people calling me toxic? And why isn't the game being as popular!?"

Dude it's fine to go with the whole "Yeah this game appeals to X kind of people", but then you, or people like you, don't get to then at the same time grandstand about how this game is super unique and special and totally not like other games.

If this game appeals to people who like survival games (That tend to be constant open world PvP), you don't then get to in the same breath say that it is a game where time investment means nothing and that everyone sings kumbaya afterwards. Everyone who has played any of these types of games in their lifetime knows what kind of audience these games attract, Sea of Thieves is no different.

Edit: And referring to people as "Content" and having absolutely no care for anyone or the game's playerbase, but yourself and your enjoyment isn't going to win you any points in convincing that the game is going to be a long-lasting experience. Well it might be, but only with murderhobos as its constant playerbase.

@scheneighnay said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:

"it's a pirate game" is always a cop out argument.
It's still a game where interactions need to be balanced properly. Otherwise it loses players or you see more who'll just server hop the instant they see a reaper on the board.
Saying "This is within the game rules" doesn't retain players.

I've seen in other games where either PVP content dies because nobody wants to deal with it and there's nobody to hunt, or all PVP moves to private servers because nobody wants to fight toxic randoms.

It honestly seems a lot like some kind of cope to me, when people rightfully criticize this game as having an identity crisis. It portrays itself as this happy-go-lucky adventure game, but then you actually play ut and it feels like a standard day in any kind of game of Rust.

@kalgert a dit dans TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM :

And why isn't the game being as popular!?

I don't understand where that bit comes from. The game is fine. More than 500k different players cashed in at least once flying a Gold Hoarder Emissary last month. The reviews are overwhelmingly positive on Steam (less than 10% negative reviews for almost 240k). The game is in a healthy spot regarding its player base.