@i-am-lost-77 An excellent answer, and exactly what has been said, 100's of posts ago!
Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal
@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
You say nothing. they did the voyage they got some xp they don’t feel like they wasted their time. Sure they could have gotten more but they lost the battle the learn from it.
Just like games with a match victory bonus: you played got your xp, could have gotten more if you won but at least you got something. Some is better than nothing.
@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@i-am-lost-77 An excellent answer, and exactly what has been said, 100's of posts ago!
Ah... well, @Skyewauker... I guess you and your cousin are just going to have to suck it up, after all. Despite arguing passionately in support of it, this suggestion isn't for you, after all.
And this is not a "get gud" response?
@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@angrycoconut16 Your choice. But, I didn't alter the meaning or intent of anything you said by responding the way I did. Disliking the way I arrange my posts in no way invalidates the content. It's clearly a dodge.
Your "content" is c**p. I don't blame him for "dodging". People skip over posts that are long winded. Posts that are filled with quote boxes are an immediate sign of someone trying to make a play on someone else's wording. Most forum users are smart enough to realize that. You might gain more traction by cutting your word count down by a thousand or so words. #redseadump
@TouchDown1504 Except for the fact that I wasn't playing on his words... and he acknowedged that fact.
@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
...as I said, many players are primarily interested in progression...
And the devs are not. They have stated this explicitly as recently as last week. They aren't going to try to stop players from having that as a primary interest, but that isn't their focus when it comes to the design of the game.
Bet you it becomes the focus when they realize reinventing the wheel didn't work! We have all made decisions, or plans in our life that didn't work out. The difference between success and failure is realizing when you need to make a change. Swallowing your pride, and doing what is necessary to succeed. In this case, change needs to be made. I have a firm belief that change is coming in the scheduled content drops. Maybe not "how" the rewards are dished out, but definitely in "how" players feel on their time invested. For me, that is the core of all of this, Time Invested.
@TouchDown1504 The irony in your post is only made more enjoyable to read by your seeming obliviousness to it.
@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
Bet you it becomes the focus when they realize reinventing the wheel didn't work! We have all made decisions, or plans in our life that didn't work out. The difference between success and failure is realizing when you need to make a change. Swallowing your pride, and doing what is necessary to succeed. In this case, change needs to be made. I have a firm belief that change is coming in the scheduled content drops. Maybe not "how" the rewards are dished out, but definitely in "how" players feel on their time invested. For me, that is the core of all of this, Time Invested.
Precisely! If people spend their SPARE TIME on a game they don't want to walk away feeling like absolute c**p, it doesn't matter whether it's a common occurrence or not. I hold nothing against Rare, I only joined the game community properly after it was released so as far as I'm concerned they've got time to change the game and improve on it (and they have already built a great foundation). The next few months will be the real test on how much they actually listen to their community. This is possibly THE biggest thread on the forum, I'm positive that something will change, perhaps it won't even be any of the suggestions on this thread, and that is fine so long as whatever is implemented addresses the problem we are presenting.
Whether devs like it or not they have introduced the concept of 'pirate legend' so yes people are making that their aim, they can't ignore that (and lets face it there is b****r all else to 'aim' for in the game, some people like to give themselves goals.. I've bought almost all the cosmetics I want so this is the only other long term goal I can give myself.. and I'd be quite happy if I achieved it).. so progression and how it is awarded IS an important issue!
@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@TouchDown1504 The irony in your post is only made more enjoyable by your seeming obliviousness to it.
And there it is... L**O. Why not contribute something constructive? What is your goal in this thread? Do you have an idea or thought that actually contributes to the idea we are discussing here? Or do you just want to argue why it is a "terrible idea"? Seriously, I am asking, because all you do is quote people and selectively pick out portions of their posts to put some kind of negative connotations on their words. As if you are the smartest guy in these forums. Yet, you have contributed nothing, except keeping the thread alive. Thus leading to more conversation, more support, more upvotes for the OP. So, you know what, I apologize, Thank you, keep being the ......... that you are. #redseadump 100% of the time...every time!
@TouchDown1504 (fixed) What are you talking about? You said something ironic... incredibly ironic. I find it funny that you don't see it. Why is it wrong for me to express that?
And, I have been constructive. I have been subjecting this suggestion to scrutiny. Should the idea not be scrutinized?
@entspeak “git gud” refers to accepting the game as it currently is and playing better. This, on the contrary, is a solution to a problem to mitigate wasted time. By your argument anything short of awarding all rewards when you acquire the loot would amount to git gud. This why no one wants to engage with you in your replies Bc your responses are pointless. But if you want to keep the thread at the top of the forums keep going :)!!!
@entspeak Yes you have scrutinized. Thousands upon thousands of words of negativity. Let me sum up what you have said, because this would have saved you a TON of time that you could have spent in the game instead of here.
"I don't like this idea. It sucks, and all of you are whining little care bears that want it to be easy. I don't like any variation on this idea and I refuse to contribute to anything that would make this game a more positive experience for ALL players. I prefer the status quo and the developers are always 100% right. How you feel playing this game does not matter. What matters is the core design stays exactly as it is with absolutely no changes. I also know exactly what they mean when they say something in an interview"
That is your argument in a nutshell. We have all heard you, like a thousand times. Contributing to an idea means helping people figure out how to make it work. You are NOT scrutinizing, you are intentionally arguing against ANY variation of a change in how rewards are done. We get it, we know where you stand, so what the hell are you trying to accomplish by still being here? Not helping obviously.
EDIT: damn it, I almost forgot #redseadump #nolootforyou #sailtheedge
@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
Bet you it becomes the focus when they realize reinventing the wheel didn't work! We have all made decisions, or plans in our life that didn't work out. The difference between success and failure is realizing when you need to make a change. Swallowing your pride, and doing what is necessary to succeed. In this case, change needs to be made. I have a firm belief that change is coming in the scheduled content drops. Maybe not "how" the rewards are dished out, but definitely in "how" players feel on their time invested. For me, that is the core of all of this, Time Invested.
Precisely! If people spend their SPARE TIME on a game they don't want to walk away feeling like absolute c**p, it doesn't matter whether it's a common occurrence or not. I hold nothing against Rare, I only joined the game community properly after it was released so as far as I'm concerned they've got time to change the game and improve on it (and they have already built a great foundation). The next few months will be the real test on how much they actually listen to their community. This is possibly THE biggest thread on the forum, I'm positive that something will change, perhaps it won't even be any of the suggestions on this thread, and that is fine so long as whatever is implemented addresses the problem we are presenting.
Whether devs like it or not they have introduced the concept of 'pirate legend' so yes people are making that their aim, they can't ignore that (and lets face it there is b****r all else to 'aim' for in the game, some people like to give themselves goals.. I've bought almost all the cosmetics I want so this is the only other long term goal I can give myself.. and I'd be quite happy if I achieved it).. so progression and how it is awarded IS an important issue!
Unless you're @Skyewauker and his cousin, I guess. It's okay if those two walk away feeling like c**p. Or the person not satisfied with a 50% bonus, but loosing all the loot.
Someone is always going to walk away feeling like c**p when they don't get the result they want. So long as someone has to lose, that will always be the case.
@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@entspeak “git gud” refers to accepting the game as it currently is and playing better. This, on the contrary, is a solution to a problem to mitigate wasted time. By your argument anything short of awarding all rewards when you acquire the loot would amount to git gud. This why no one wants to engage with you in your replies Bc your responses are pointless. But if you want to keep the thread at the top of the forums keep going :)!!!
First, to address your strawman, that isn't my argument. Second, I was asking what your response would be should the game adopt this suggestion which would make the suggestion "current". So, the complaint would come under this suggestion.
Hence my question. If this suggestion is adopted and you get 100% reputation and gold for loot + a 25% reputation bonus (on voyage complete, if I understand the latest version of the suggestion being put forth), you would tell a player who lost all the loot in PvP that, at least they got the 25% and they could've done better, but they need to "learn" from that battle and play better, so they don't lose the loot the next time? If I am mis-characterizing what you meant, please let me know.
@TouchDown1504 Scrutiny does not equal negativity. I realize it can make you feel negative, but that doesn't mean it is negative. And, your characterization of my argument is a strawman.
@entspeak Like I said we know where you stand. And you can also quit with all of the popular forum catch phrases like "strawman". Seriously, I summed up your argument...What you don't understand is this a place where people are discussing how to make an idea work. All you are doing is killing every variation of that idea. That is negativity, not scrutiny. You don't have to like the idea, no issue there. We all know you don't like it (supposedly). So, why are you here? What is your purpose? Its not to help us discuss how to make rewards better. have you laid out an idea to that?
#PvPavoidance #redsealegend #nevergivinguptheloot
@touchdown1504 Agreed. Funny thing is he can't comprehend how the core design of the game would remain if this idea was implemented sensibly, and apparently he doesn't want people to feel 'less c**p', in none of my posts (or others as far as I've seen) have I said that people shouldn't experience lows, what I've said is at the moment they are REALLY low, literally saw another thread today where someone was coming onto the thread to rage. He wasn't even angry at the game and ended saying 'well I was outplayed, oh well, gg to them', but hell, if the current system is making people feel so angry that they have to come to the forum to rage in capital letters (and he was actually a very decent person to talk to) then they are clearly going a bit overboard on the loss factor of the game. Loss shouldn't be removed, but cushioning this loss, and the blow of losing loot, would not compromise anything in the game at all, heck it would be beneficial to PvP as you and I already know ;)
Oh! Edit: #NEVERGIVINGUPLOOT #ALWAYSRUNNINGFROMPVP #PvPavoidance
@angrycoconut16 Absolutely right. I am hear to tell you. This thread has been seen, So has the other discussions on other popular gaming social media. The development team is aware. What will they do about it? IDK, but they seem pretty clever. I have no doubt there will be some change, just no idea what it is! The threads are popping up all over the place. Reddit is a swarm of this exact sentiment. Like I said before, I have no intention of changing opinions. to each his own. But, if someone is going to be in here, contribute to the conversation. If your point has been made, go away, nobody likes you anyhow. (Generally speaking)
@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
Bet you it becomes the focus when they realize reinventing the wheel didn't work! We have all made decisions, or plans in our life that didn't work out. The difference between success and failure is realizing when you need to make a change. Swallowing your pride, and doing what is necessary to succeed. In this case, change needs to be made. I have a firm belief that change is coming in the scheduled content drops. Maybe not "how" the rewards are dished out, but definitely in "how" players feel on their time invested. For me, that is the core of all of this, Time Invested.
Precisely! If people spend their SPARE TIME on a game they don't want to walk away feeling like absolute c**p, it doesn't matter whether it's a common occurrence or not. I hold nothing against Rare, I only joined the game community properly after it was released so as far as I'm concerned they've got time to change the game and improve on it (and they have already built a great foundation). The next few months will be the real test on how much they actually listen to their community. This is possibly THE biggest thread on the forum, I'm positive that something will change, perhaps it won't even be any of the suggestions on this thread, and that is fine so long as whatever is implemented addresses the problem we are presenting.
Whether devs like it or not they have introduced the concept of 'pirate legend' so yes people are making that their aim, they can't ignore that (and lets face it there is b****r all else to 'aim' for in the game, some people like to give themselves goals.. I've bought almost all the cosmetics I want so this is the only other long term goal I can give myself.. and I'd be quite happy if I achieved it).. so progression and how it is awarded IS an important issue!
Unless you're @Skyewauker and his cousin, I guess. It's okay if those two walk away feeling like c**p. Or the person not satisfied with a 50% bonus, but loosing all the loot.
Someone is always going to walk away feeling like c**p when they don't get the result they want. So long as someone has to lose, that will always be the case.
@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@entspeak “git gud” refers to accepting the game as it currently is and playing better. This, on the contrary, is a solution to a problem to mitigate wasted time. By your argument anything short of awarding all rewards when you acquire the loot would amount to git gud. This why no one wants to engage with you in your replies Bc your responses are pointless. But if you want to keep the thread at the top of the forums keep going :)!!!
First, to address your strawman, that isn't my argument. Second, I was asking what your response would be should the game adopt this suggestion which would make the suggestion "current". So, the complaint would come under this suggestion.
Hence my question. If this suggestion is adopted and you get 100% reputation and gold for loot + a 25% reputation bonus (on voyage complete, if I understand the latest version of the suggestion being put forth), you would tell a player who lost all the loot in PvP that, at least they got the 25% and they could've done better, but they need to "learn" from that battle and play better, so they don't lose the loot the next time? If I am mis-characterizing what you meant, please let me know.
@TouchDown1504 Scrutiny does not equal negativity. I realize it can make you feel negative, but that doesn't mean it is negative. And, your characterization of my argument is a strawman.
Perfect example. Here you are picking bits and pieces of conversations to somehow defend...well s**t...I don't know what you are defending at this point.
Give us an alternative. What is the ideal scenario for a rewards system @entspeak ? Join the conversation. What would actually be a good scenario? You got anything? Or just leave it as it is?
#progressionbyredsea
@entspeak alright I’ll humor you one last time. Do people complain about match victory bonuses?
People may complain about “not getting enough xp” but it will be such a small minority it doesn’t matter really. The majority want to log out with enough progress to feel like their time wasn’t wasted win or lose. If you give them that and they ask for more then they can voice their complaints but the majority should be happy with the system. You can’t please everyone 100% of the time. once again your not giving anything worth discussing.
@i-am-lost-77 You are right. The bottom line is to never log out empty handed for the time invested.
@touchdown1504 @AngryCoconut16 @I-Am-Lost-77
You want my argument in a nutshell? Here it is:
The issue this suggestion is trying to address - mitigating loss (particularly for casual players who don't have a lot of time) - is not one of game design it is one of player choice.
This is an open world game that is designed to allow the player to make any number of choices and develop any number of strategies. The player has complete control over how they manage their time and investment in the game - those decisions are up to the player. Not every decision will lead to success, not every decision will be efficient, some will result in failure - that is the very nature of an open world game with so much freedom for the player to make decisions. And, as a wise man recently said:
We have all made decisions, or plans in our life that didn't work out. The difference between success and failure is realizing when you need to make a change. Swallowing your pride, and doing what is necessary to succeed.
Truer words were never spoken. So, there is no need to lessen the risk, decrease the paranoia, or otherwise diminish or water down the devs' vision when, given the multitude of options available to the player in the game currently, one can swallow one's pride and do what is necessary to succeed.
One choice, in particular, could help to mitigate loss... and the devs mention it in the article cited so many times in this thread. Go to an outpost during a voyage and drop off some of your loot... they put many of them all over the map to give you that choice... they even don't require you to drop it off at a particular one for GH/OoS, to increase your options.
What a disgusting [Mod Edited] echochamber you guys managed to turn this thread into, I shut up to let @entspeak speak, since he is much more levelheaded than I am and you guys strawman his arguments, move the goalpost everywhere and insult the guy, I mean, I give a lot because I'm willing to take a lot, but the guy is so polite.
I hope Rare never listens to anything you guys ever suggest, worst thread discussion I had the displeasure of ever coming across.
@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
Players running around solving riddles will always have significantly less loot than players cycling quests for large reward digs.
If people do large reward digs they will have their treasure for less time making it more difficult for a PvP player to steal. If they are focused on completing a voyage they may have less loot (or more since they are doing an entire voyage) but they will have it for a greater amount of time thus giving PvP players more opportunity to steal.
Plus if you front load the reward for chests by doing something like giving the rep when you dig it up, or backload it by giving you all the rep when you complete the whole voyage, you'll see a significant decrease in how many chests are actually brought back to ships. Have you never been on a Legendary voyage?
The bonus xp for voyage completion should not be large enough to discourage turn in. Turn in loot should still be the primary and most effiecnt way to get xp and gold
Basically every suggestion thus far makes the chests and skulls worth comparatively less on turn in than they are now. The degree to which they are worth less is equal to a PvE player and a PvP player.
Yes but in reality they are worth the exact same amount. All you get is bonus xp for playing the game. PvE get rewarded for investing time into the game the, change to pvp players reward is literally nothing.
If a chest is worth 100 rep now and all of it is awarded on turn in, then a stolen chest still awards 100% of its value.
If a chest is worth 100 rep on turn in and a 25 rep bonus either on discovery or voyage completion, then the 100 rep you'd get for turning in the stolen chest is only 80% of its value.
In other words, you're providing added incentives to PvE without any added incentives to PvP. This messes with the meticulously crafted balance of the game and is counter to the dev's intentions.
@entspeak So in other words you don't have an alternative idea. The status quo is fine. You are simply against the idea. We have heard you. So, why are you still arguing it? You have repeated yourself many more times than I would have, and I give you props for the patience. But it still stands top reason, this is not a debate. It is a discussion of what people would like to see. Is there something you would like to see? Is there a "better" way to do the rewards system? I am asking honestly here, I am seriously trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. I want to believe you are here to contribute, not just shoot down everyone else's ideas. Prove me wrong. So, do you have a better way for the rewards system to be done? Or is the status quo, no changes at all, fine?
@touchdown1504 This is not a debate? So, your suggestion doesn't have to hold up to scrutiny? Nobody can question it?
@entspeak Look I realize you will never answer the question. It is easier to shoot down ideas than it is to come up with something original yourself. Part of any discussion is offering alternatives. Which you never have. All you do is point out problems. That is not being constructive. Call it scrutiny all you want. to me it looks like a never ended troll fest. You know, you should never present a problem, without a possible solution. With that in mind is it safe to assume your solution is "leave it as it is?"
@touchdown1504 you got ninja'd. If there is no problem with the game design in this regard, there need be no solution.
@UrihamRayne Please avoid name calling on our forums, as it is a violation of our Forum rules. Your post has been edited accordingly.
@touchdown1504 "So in other words you don't have an alternative idea."
Other people already said me included, make pve more engaging instead of changing its core fundamentals, add more things to loot, more ways to gain rep and gold, more quests, more variety.
@Lady-Aijou can't censor facts, m'lady.
@urihamrayne said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@touchdown1504 "So in other words you don't have an alternative idea."
Other people already said me included, make pve more engaging instead of changing its core fundamentals, add more things to loot, more ways to gain rep and gold, more quests, more variety.
@Lady-Aijou can't censor facts, m'lady.
Discussion of the game, whether positive or negative, is completely fine. Attacking other users and calling them names is against our community rules, and is actioned accordingly.
@entspeak As I thought. "Ninja'd". Congratulations! This is not about discussion for you, its about your perception of "winning" an argument. You are not here for anything constructive. Good job, now I know there is no point in reading your dribble any further. Your intentions here are ruffling feathers. You did a good job of it. At least you gained a fanboy in @UrihamRayne maybe you can get him to go upvote all your posts and lend you some credibility, after he gets his nose out of your backside of course!
@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@entspeak Look I realize you will never answer the question. It is easier to shoot down ideas than it is to come up with something original yourself. Part of any discussion is offering alternatives. Which you never have. All you do is point out problems. That is not being constructive. Call it scrutiny all you want. to me it looks like a never ended troll fest. You know, you should never present a problem, without a possible solution. With that in mind is it safe to assume your solution is "leave it as it is?"
In terms of the 'all quest rewards are physical and none of it is truly yours until you get to an outpost' aspect of it which is what this thread is about? Yes, it's fine as it is.
(I was simply pointing out that I was editing my post to answer your question as you were posting that I’d never answer the question - that’s all I meant by ninja’d. That seems to have upset you, so here you go. Does that work better for you?)
@entspeak Yes it does. So, as I mentioned, we all know where you stand, your point has been made. Really not much else to say, right? you are happy with the current rewards system, and that is fine. I am not trying to change your mind at all. What I am trying to do, is have a conversation of "what could be". If you don't want to be a part of that constructive part of that conversation, start a new conversation on why the system is fine as it is. I have no doubts some conversations like that already exist.
@urihamrayne said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@touchdown1504 "So in other words you don't have an alternative idea."
Other people already said me included, make pve more engaging instead of changing its core fundamentals, add more things to loot, more ways to gain rep and gold, more quests, more variety.
@Lady-Aijou can't censor facts, m'lady.
And...other people...myself included, pointed out, all of that is (supposedly) on the way according to the development roadmap video! Everyone keeps mentioning "core fundamentals". I have to be honest here, I don't know what the "core fundamentals" are, do you?
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