Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff

@glannigan said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

Let's not forget double gunners got a huge buff this last season with the introduction of ammo pouch drops.

Didn't see anyone complaining about that!

Let's not forget that the effectiveness of double gun is only allowed through uses of exploits that will eventually be patched in the game but overall I think guns do too much damage to players and not enough to environmental threats.

@scurvywoof said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

@personalc0ffee said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

@glannigan said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

Let's not forget double gunners got a huge buff this last season with the introduction of ammo pouch drops.

Didn't see anyone complaining about that!

Let's not forget that the effectiveness of double gun is only allowed through uses of exploits that will eventually be patched in the game but overall I think guns do too much damage to players and not enough to environmental threats.

Apart from sprint cancelling which received a patch that almost fixed it a few years back, what are these exploits that you are referring to?

Sprint swap, Quick Reload, and Faster ADS. All of these are exploits or unintended behavior and they are key to DG being as effective as it is. If they were to address all 3 of these, it would not be nearly as effective as it is and you would see gravitation back to Sword.

Rare intended Sword battles to be the majority of battles, that is why guns only have 5 shots.

@d3adst1ck said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

@personalc0ffee said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

Sprint swap, Quick Reload, and Faster ADS. All of these are exploits or unintended behavior and they are key to DG being as effective as it is. If they were to address all 3 of these, it would not be nearly as effective as it is and you would see gravitation back to Sword.

Rare intended Sword battles to be the majority of battles, that is why guns only have 5 shots.

I don't think those really matter. If Rare was concerned about gaining fractions of a second to reload the same weapon, they would have set the hardcoded time to swap between guns higher than 1 second to make sure that reloading the same gun and switching between guns took roughly the same time. Saving less than half a second on a reload isn't going to matter when the reload itself takes 2+ seconds while switching guns is fixed at 1s and is more lethal.

The smallest of time saved in combat, can mean the difference at times.

I have been in some REALLY long and hard PvP battles and timing is everything.

@d3adst1ck said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

@personalc0ffee said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

The smallest of time saved in combat, can mean the difference at times.

I have been in some REALLY long and hard PvP battles and timing is everything.

True, but the exploits you mentioned aren't specifically related to double gunning. Every loadout uses them on purpose or accidentally. Removing them won't change the meta much, except for forcing a migration from the EoR to the pistol if the ADS time is bad enough.

If they stop them entirely, yes it will.

Yup, those are basically it and it is what they need to address to kill the effectiveness of the double gun.

I need to reiterate to Rare that adding or adjusting the time delay between shots is not going to solve this problem. You need to eliminate animation canceling and sprint switching.

The intended reload and readiness delays need to fully play out to get the guns back in-line with how they are MEANT to be used. That may mean other balance changes will be necessary.

@scurvywoof Yes it is. Yes it has been and yes it will continue to be. Most of the best PvP'ers are double gunners, period. Yes, skill DOES play a role in this game but exploits are carrying it.

I am so sick and tired of hearing that double gun is not broken or is not OP.

Yes it is and they NEED to address it. That is personally want I want this year out of all the updates to Sea of Thieves. If we only get one singular update the whole year. I want it to be that. I want to see the end of double gunning as we currently know it. It is a plague upon the game and has been since launch, same with x bucketing. Honestly all instances of cancelling or animation interruption need to be addressed. They are not intended and the animations are there for balancing purposes. They need to fix this. It's been a plague since launch.

The only ones that don't want it removed are those that wish to continue to ROFLstomp other crews with it because these types of high level exploits are that good.

If you can effectively fight a group of high level double gun TDM PvP players 1v4 or 1v3 and wipe them, camp them, and hold them, you are god tier with the sword, period. There is a reason all top level PvP'ers use double guns.

Block jumping through characters I believe is intended to keep them from blocking you into a corner. Rare's never actually addressed this as any sort of issue, but maybe it is an exploit.

The block lunge will remain, Rare's already said it is not an exploit.

Lunge cancelling is not intended as you're meant to receive the cool down just like with the reload and readying up animations with all weapons. They need to fix that.

But these exploits do not let you roflstomp a crew of high level TDM double gunners.

There are also instances of being able to swing the sword faster while holding block, doing some sort of lunge jump cancel so you can hop after doing a sword lunge, being able to switch weapons faster when jumping vs on the ground, and being able to do a sword lunge without lunging forward.

All of these exploits need addressed to help balance and even out combat. And if players want to whinge and complain about how their skill is being dumbed down or removed, then so be it. It needs to happen to bring the combat more in-line with the audience in which it caters to IMVHO.

@scurvywoof said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

@personalc0ffee Damn, I've never seen someone this passionate on the forums before xD
I get your point, though. But I really don't think double gun is that bad. Maybe lowering the damage output of guns by 10-20 would quell the effectiveness of double gun, but in truth, I don't think double gun is ever going to go. People who choose to double gun must learn to aim, move effectively, learn the exploits if they are one of those people that seek any advantage possible. The same applies for the sword. 75% of the people I see complaining about double gun don't give proper reasoning and are complaining because they can't effectively use the sword.
You are not one of these people, and I respect that.
Just to add, double gun is only broken and OP because most of the people that use it know how to use it effectively. If everyone began double gunning, you would see a lot less people complaining about how OP it is and more about bigger issues like hit reg and hackers, from time to time.
P.S. Double gunners have to live with the risk of hit reg getting them killed. It's happened to me many times. Hit reg does happen with the sword, but not as much.

Yah I should tone it back a bit, sorry about that.

I said all I needed to say though and it is how I truly feel about the combat of this game. A lot of it needs addressing and if they nerf my sword or the double guns as a result to better bring it more inline with a casual experience, then so be it.

Hit reg will eventually get fixed and it isn't as big an issue as much as it is complained about. I am regularly hit with bullets fired. It's more an issue in Arena, which I rarely play, I feel.

I have been playing this game a looooong time. I know most, if not all the pitfalls of combat.

On the "if more people" eh I shouldn't have to play a certain way or engage with a certain way in which I am not comfortable or physically able to, in order to succeed against the types of people in question. Not all double gunners are an issue but a crew of them is, especially if they TDM and most TDM. I defeated a few last night, matter of fact.

I think Rare will surprise us all in what they do to fix the combat system.

@alienmagi said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

Its not normal for a pirate game META to not include a sword.

I dont get why rare even allowed double gunning in the first place. When i first started the game and found out you can double gun i thought it was a joke and had to actually equip it to believe it.

The exploits surrounding double gunning are ridiculous and people in this thread be acting like the blunderbuss doesnt have the same noodle arming as the sword where you will get 1shot with a full health bar when your enemy was 2 meters away from you while you can clearly see that you dodged the pellets as well.

Personal coffee is absolutely right any exploits need to get fixed as soon as possible because they ruin the game. Its almost like cheating.

"if you cant beat them, join them" is also not applicable because you just dont know if it will get you banned or not. We still dont know what happens to DPI glitchers and why that hot steaming pile of exploit garbage hasnt been fixed immediately after people discovered it.

In the future remember to tag people so it pops up in our notifications. I almost missed your post.

@cleanslatenate said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

[Exploits effects]
Exploits are unintentional game mechanics, bad or good they add something to the players likes or dislikes of the game. You stomp this mechanic and there will always be a group of people who'll seek other methods no matter the cost to get back what they enjoyed. And those who didn't like the exploit can feel satisfied with the game returning to a state they enjoyed.

Than you fix those ones and those ones and those ones until you get them all enough it is too much hassle for them to continue to try to use them.

[People aren't afraid of being banned]
Every cosmetic in this game has been cheesed to death with ESP, alliance servers, or exploits so if they were to get banned it's just a "well I lost nothing" kind of feeling. Getting past a ban takes a minute, then boom. They're back on the sea doing what they enjoyed along side you and you'll never know. So when people find out they can do something that breaks the rules to get what they enjoyed back they'll do it in a heartbeat.

[And to those who are afraid...]
There's no consistency with bans, whether it be because of something you said or that you did in the game. Spawn camping at one point was a bannable offense according to some of the team, then it wasn't. But the people who were banned won't be unbanned. (It's just something to think about).

Not if they IP ban, Mac address ban, or Microsoft ban you. That takes a lot more work to get around.

[Frustration.]
Hit registration makes people mad at a game they're trying to enjoy. Double gunning ruins the experience of a stereotypical pirate game. Sword ruins the competitive feeling of the game. A "sandbox" game where there's no one person ruling what can and can't be used. A hard truth is learned and that it's up to us to convince Rare. Is it more about who's less dirty, or about who's more reasonable? This community can only get behind one thing and it's that the game is broken.

Sword is supposed to be how the battles are fought that is why guns are limited to 5 ammo. How can sword ruin competitive feeling? Pirates fought with cutlass!

@alienmagi said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

@personalc0ffee said in Sword once again ruins the game with unnecessary buff:

In the future remember to tag people so it pops up in our notifications. I almost missed your post.

Okay, I will, i wasnt sure if you'd want to be tagged since i wasnt making a direct reply.

You can always tag me as long as it is for valid discussion or to counter one my points. Even if it's for goofs and gaffs. I'm not super serious. I'm a boaty after all.