Why is server hopping still a thing?

  • Theosdoros
    Sailor

    Let me preface this by saying that I'm not your typical PvE lord that runs away from every PvP encounter and advocates for PvE servers. I like PvP and the fact that treasure can be lost at any time due to player encounters. It makes the game exciting, and I wouldn't be playing this at all if there was no risk involved.

    What I don't think should be a part of the game, however, is server hopping.

    Server hopping is a widely-used tactic employed by the most skilled portion of the player base. It allows a crew to hyper-focus solely on PvP. Here's how a server hopper's session looks like in their own words:

    • "(...) We search for a server with a reaper 5 on it.

    • We buy the supplies from the merchant and circle the outpost with a storage crate.

    • We rush toworth the r5 and sink them. Most of the time they have enough loot on board to give us r5.

    • After that we check the map and go straight to the next boat of the server. During the travel we loot the barrels in the water, take out supplies from sunken ships and shoot ourself off to nearby islands.

    • When all enmesery boats are gone we sell at reapers. We put down A Pirate's Life tall tale with the savepoint and hop into the portal.

    • Since you don't need chain shots or cursed cannon balls for most of the fights they stack up.

    • Last night we ended with around 70 chain shots and 30 cursed balls. We save them for fights that are hard. Finding challanging fights is rare. (...)"

    Server hopping allows a crew to cherry-pick a server with favorable world events and player ships. Does your server not have the world events that you like, or any player ships that are currently worth sinking? Instead of having to wait for ships to gather loot, or for a world event to appear, just server hop and find exactly what you want. This turns, as somebody else has very well put it into words, every other ship that is doing forts or valuable events into an NPC that is gathering loot for the hoppers to plunder. Chances are that they will be outsupplied, outskilled and taken by surprise by a ship that appears out of nowhere whenever they try to undertake a popular world event.

    I think that you should be able to cherry-pick a server. But once you get on a server, hopping onto a different one whilst keeping your emissary grade and supplies should not be possible. Sweaty galleons full of people who play this game as a full-time job shouldn't be allowed to simply go out and sink every ship worth sinking for the entire session. It just removes any fun from the game for anybody not employing this tactic.

    It is very easy to implement a fix: simply make supplies over the default ones not transfer over to a new server, or just slap a cooldown on hopping altogether. As it is now, server-hopping is a tactic that has all the benefits with none of the drawbacks.

    Most people arguing for server hopping say that it is a legit strategy because, in their own words, Rare does not get to dictate what they do in the game. They don't want to "waste" time playing the game as intended, but instead want to be able to get exactly what they are looking for, all the time, without any RNG involved.
    This is rubbish, in my humble opinion. Allowing players to hyper-focus on that one aspect of the game and to get exactly what they want all the time just drives every other player not employing this tactic away from the game.

    Personally, I have never server-hopped ever since I learned how it works, and will continue to do so. But I'm afraid that Rare is not going to put an end to the damage that this tactic causes to the game because it would upset the most active and skilled portion of the player-base.

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  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Personally, I have never server-hopped ever since I learned how it works, and will continue to do so.

    This ends the topic. It doesn’t affect you so why does it matter if others use it.

  • Theosdoros
    Sailor

    @burnbacon

    Did you read the post?

    It does affect me and every other player who does not server hop because it gives the hoppers an advantage over everybody else, here's a little story:

    I was on a reaper sloop stacking loot, got into some PvP encounters and emerged victorious. Right after we sunk our last ship, a reaper 5 galleon just appeared out of nowhere on the map. This was, of course, a server-hopping ship full of reasonably skilled players, fully stocked, with nothing to lose other than supplies and flag, heading straight towards us at full speed. We had just finished fending off other players, were starting to get low on supplies, had a decent amount of loot on board, and everything to lose if we were to sink.

    We ditched the hoppers and managed to sell our most important pieces of loot, then started to fight the galleon using non-conventional tactics. We outmaneuvered them for about half an hour, without being able to sink them due to the sheer numeric disadvantage, until we eventually got double-boarded, anchored and sunk. We were better than them, just not good enough to 2v4 them in this scenario.

    We ended up losing 90% of our loot to them.

    Why was this possible in the first place? Due to server hopping. As a server hopper, you have little to lose. Just your supplies and emissary grade. Everybody else who does not server hop and instead tries to play the game as intended is vulnerable to sweaty ships that may appear at any time to sink and take away hours of work from them. If you sink the hoppers you most often get nothing out of it; if they sink you, they get all of your hard work.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    At this point they aren't going to do anything about it. Adding a cooldown to server hopping causes problems for players trying to get away from ships that they are unable to defeat or toxic players. Resetting supplies won't mean much because they can just stop at a Sea Fort to restock or buy more at an Outpost.

    The best thing they could do is to revisit the way the Reapers work and remove all of the ships (including the Reapers) appearing on the maps. That way, hopping as Reaper is no different than hopping as any other ship and everyone who starts on a server either from a hop, merge or a fresh spawn needs to hunt down ships on the new server the old fashioned way. Emissaries won't vote down or hop away as soon as a Reaper appears either.

  • Red0Demon0
    Commander
    Insider

    Beats me, been complaining about this shady abuse of the system as much as the dumb red sea dumping. Both of these things are non-organic to the game, allowing players to increase their chances of not just find other players, but also allows some control of activated events. Regardless, I'm not jumping around the problem here, the main issue has aways been the fact that server hoppers may not just be abler to pop up next to you without warning and sink you without any skill involved, but if things do somehow get dicey for them, they can always server hop their way out. Every emissary loses their loot if they server hop, but reapers will have a high chance that they don't have loot, if their main goal is to pvp and steal the emissary flags, reapers don't really get punished the same way all other emissaries do.

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    Stop and consider what you just said.

    The most skilled.

    There's a reason you can't find me...

  • Unleet1
    Lord
    Insider

    You are running and emissary and beyond that reaper, and I don't see any issue.

  • barto9991
    Marauder
    Founder

    @theosdoros Let me do some re-buttals to that history... First u had "COME AND FIGHT ME" emissary on you so be it server hoppers or not anyone could totally come to fight you, second what if the reaper 5 got a server-merge? Would that be fair game? Or is it still consider server hopping? Thirdly u mentioned that u have never server hopped/don't know the full details so let me tell you that portal hopping is rather a monotonous and boring procedure on which u depend on luck, thing about portal hopping is that it's a side effect to POTC tall tales so, if you wanted to impose a restriction it then you would take along with you all players that wanted to do the tall tale which would lead a lot of eyebrows when their supplies are missing.

    I know that's frustrating to loose all your loot like that but keep in mind that is a PvPvE "tools no rules" game so server hopping is just as valid as doing 12hr stacks running away from everyone.

    P.S: That last line of "[...]if they sink you, they get all of your hard work" is rather contradictory since u totally sank some players that worked hard for their loot right? ;)

  • tossico94
    Seafarer

    Why this topic is still a thing?

  • a10dr4651
    Commander
    Insider

    I understand what you're saying here but atleast portal hoppers generally come through with a reaper flag. It's the server hoppers that come at you with absolutely nothing or silent reapers as they are also known as that affect the balance the most.
    This server hopping mentality (not portal hopping) has just been enabled further with ease of access to supplies.

    Some balance changes I'd personally like to see, sunken ships provide a few barrels of supplies when sunk, reaper emissary flags sellable to other factions so defending ships have a reason to fight and other emissaries not visible until they reach rank 3. This should encourage people to run the risks of emissary at the early stages without gaining from multipliers.

    The best way to avoid any of these players in the first place though, don't run an emissary, don't take part in high value world events and don't stack loot.

  • Zedny3434
    Marauder
    Insider

    Here is a quote I want to share:

    Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.

    Server Hopping just too damn efficient. They can keep their supplies while looking for their first pray, and then also keep their emissary levels when looking for the next.
    I still get sank more often than not so I wouldn't do it, but some Arena veterans are making more this way, that a whole alliance server could.

    Things will only change if Rare decides to forcibly shut it down, significantly nerf it, or introduce something even more lucrative for them to do.

  • Scheneighnay
    Ship Mate

    Really just make it so that server hopping resets your supplies and your emissary like you just spawned in.

  • Vaca Hombre
    Champion
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @zedny3434 said in Why is server hopping still a thing?:

    Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.

    Wow. I think that's the most concise way of putting it that I've seen.

    I remember back around launch, someone described how they were cheesing the merchant alliance voyages to gain rep faster. It sounded so tedious and mind-numbingly boring. I'm all about people playing how they want and enjoying different aspects of a game, but I can't help but feel players like that are cheating themselves out of the real fun.

    It's like taking this huge, beautiful, complicated game world and turning it into one of those depressing mobile games that have no point other than "make numbers go up".

  • Scheneighnay
    Ship Mate

    @above because the forums censor your name when I @ to you
    I never understood those types either.
    For me it's a game first, and the only time I really cheese things is if I'm rushing to unlock something before our weekly clan session.

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    Sometimes figuring out how to cheese is as much fun as doing it organically. (Got the 15 ship achievement with pure cheese)

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    Sometimes figuring out how to cheese is as much fun as doing it organically. (Got the 15 ship achievement with pure cheese)

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    Sometimes figuring out how to cheese is as much fun as doing it organically. (Got the 15 ship achievement with pure cheese)

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    Sometimes figuring out how to cheese is as much fun as doing it organically. (Got the 15 ship achievement with pure cheese)

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    Sometimes figuring out how to cheese is as much fun as doing it organically. (Got the 15 ship achievement with pure cheese)

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    Sometimes figuring out how to cheese is as much fun as doing it organically. (Got the 15 ship achievement with pure cheese)

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    Sometimes figuring out how to cheese is as much fun as doing it organically. (Got the 15 ship achievement with pure cheese)

  • Theosdoros
    Sailor

    @barto9991

    1. Server merges are a necessary evil to maintain servers active. They cannot be abused in the same way as server hopping, and if the galleon was just merged into the server I would not be complaining about it on the forums. I know they were hoppers because after playing for a while they are easy to identify, and because they themselves admitted to it through voice chat.
    2. I am aware that server hopping is boring & don't see how that is an argument for it. Despite it being boring, the official LFC discord is full of people looking for crewmates to employ this strategy and get their increasingly dwindling dose of daily dopamine.
    3. Restrictions on that one tall tale is a much better alternative to having to deal with server hoppers.
    4. You're trying really hard to prove that I'm a hypocrite because I also sunk ships in that session; yet you fail to see that sinking ships organically, as a reaper that made it to grade 5 on that server, and had loot for others to get if they did indeed manage to best us in combat, is a whole different story from a hyper-aggressive galleon full of arena refugees appearing out of thin air to sink every emissary with little to no benefit to the emissaries if they do somehow manage to best them despite their supply disadvantage.

    @a10dr4651
    "The best way to avoid any of these players in the first place though, don't run an emissary, don't take part in high value world events and don't stack loot."
    So avoid a large part of the content this game has to offer?

    @zedny3434
    "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
    Very well put.

  • Unleet1
    Lord
    Insider

    @pithyrumble That will hopefully be patched soon. It's somewhat expensive cheese though.

  • Vaca Hombre
    Champion
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @pithyrumble said in Why is server hopping still a thing?:

    Sometimes figuring out how to cheese is as much fun as doing it organically. (Got the 15 ship achievement with pure cheese)

    It can, but it depends on the type of cheese. (Muenster?)

    I wish I could remember what the merchant thing was, but it basically amounted to buying merchant voyages, collecting and loading all the cages, canceling the voyage, and then repeating for about an hour.

    I mean, yeah, it might get you there fast. But for stuff like that, I'd rather just take the extra time and adventure normally.

  • SnazzyGent
    Sailor

    It sounds like server hopping is tied to A Pirate's Life? (Apologies, I'm not familiar with the specific steps to server hop)

    If that's the case then it can't last forever. I imagine A Pirate's Life will eventually be removed once the rights agreement between Rare and Disney ends, assuming the game is still live at that time. Just an uneducated guess that probably doesn't do anything to make anyone feel better but I figured I'd throw it out there.

  • Grog Minto
    Master
    Insider

    Imo the frustration has more to do with the type of people that tend to server hop than with the server hopping itself.

    People that tend to do it are usually more experience in pvp and that create a feeling of hopelessness (which is the real culprit in my opinion) since they're more proficient than the average crew. The fact that they are often represented as a Galleon crew instead of the more frequent Brigantine illustrate that point.
    Server hopping through portal isn't as great as people make it out to be either. You go through a portal for several minutes, then watch the map, find nothing, go through the portal again, find an emissary on the map, sail for 15 minutes, see that it is a grade 2 GH. At that point you either quickly sink it in order to not feel like you've wasted your time or you just start again with the portal hopping... While server hopping through portals I feel like 80% of your time is just spent doing nothing interesting really. That's the reason why we don't really use the mechanic anymore.

    Overall tho, it doesn't happen that frequently. If you really don't want to fight against hoppers : don't stack, lower and raise emissary when you can and if you get attacked by hoppers just scuttle and start again. You will still win a lot more gold than the hoppers will if you're proficient at the game. If you don't fly the reaper emissary flag (the pvp faction), you're even less prone to being attacked by hoppers because they often look for other reapers.

    I personally like the mechanic, even if I don't use it that often (I used it once in the last 30 hours of play). Since the Pirate Life update, it seems that the hoppers are the only one to actually attack our ship and PvE without the threat of other players tends to become boring very fast.

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