keep wrecks sunken ship + do not float treasures

Yeah this would be fun around a skullfort with sunken boats everywhere :D

@jet-fire-diego Great idea! You're right that it would probably put some more load on the already-stressed servers, but if there's a way to make it work they should totally do it!

@vorondil1

Of course, this must be temporary, but not as fast as it is today when you sink the floating tesousos, it has to last a little longer, so I mentioned maybe an idea of 15 to 30 minutes.

The game has potential for much improvement and much more realism, just apply.

I disagree. If you are sunk and have to spawn with a new ship, you should not have an easy time finding your treasure if at all. You lost it, there need to be consequences.

If you sank near an island, you have a high chance of getting your treasure back as it will sink and sit on the sea floor for a while longer, but out in the vast seas you shouldn't have much hope.

@archangel-timmy

I disagree, because if your boat sinks of course it has consequences, but what prevents you from surviving and returning to the location to try to recover?
Of course if you were sunk by another ship your chances will be smaller, but for other causes you still have a hope.

These are things to think about, I played the idea only, because the closer to realism, the better the game.

@targasbr I am sorry, I still cannot get behind this idea, especially as it is.
First concern is server resources, which has been brought up. They have many issues as it is, now we are talking about persisting more ships and more loot.
They would need to redesign how player ships work when sunk as you cannot navigate them once they are disabled. The sunken galleon's are quite cumbersome, a brig wont be easy let alone the lower deck of a sloop.
If you are talking realism, your sinking ship is either going to float at the surface for a short time or sink to unrecoverable depths, so how about when a ship is sunk you get a minute or two at the surface to secure loot before it sinks and disappears permanently with all of the loot along with it.
This takes away any real sense of urgency out of the game, and reduces the consequences of being sunk. If you sink and appear on the other side of the map, you can't except a chance at getting your stuff back unless it was taken by someone else or left on an island. I have watched ships sink on the horizon and sailed as fast as the winds could carry me there to find treasure floating and sinking to the depths, that is how it should be as they lost their stuff and we were able to recover some of it. I wasn't in the area nor did I contribute to them sinking, I don't deserve the full haul.

@TargasBR How is this not different? How does increasing the duration of loot by 3-6 times not reduce the consequence of you getting sunk? You are increasing the odds dramatically of retrieving your loot, therefor reducing the consequence of you sinking.

@TargasBR If you are able to retrieve your loot after spawning across the map, that is a reduction of the consequences of sinking regardless of wether someone else can stumble upon it first. You know where it is and roughly how long it will be there, you have the edge to retrieve it over everyone else. Not to mention server density is set up so that you aren't always surrounded by other ships, so this definitely gives you the upper hand in claiming your loot back.

As it stands, if someone is in the area and happen to notice you go down, that is their chance to get your loot unless they outright sunk you. If they notice and make it their, that is their reward.

I like the idea of sunken ships, especially more variety. I like the idea of being able to get supplies from a downed ship. However, I do not like the idea of anything that needlessly affects the risk/reward factor of the game and reduction in consequences. Honestly, I was in support of the ferryman taking a toll from the players who die, to a degree anyway.

@targasbr You cannot easily catch your loot unless you spawn within a few squares and have the wind which isn't very common. Perhaps if it was close to the shoreline you could grab it from the seabed, but not further out.

The problem is the only real arguments for this is to cater to those who can't keep their ship afloat, to those who don't like losing their hard work. You lose it, you deserve little to no chance of retrieving it and the game shouldn't hold on to it for you.

You want this change for other people to find your ship, or for you to find the ship of another crew? Sure, then when you are sunk you get merged so you cannot get your own.

@targasbr The odds of someone getting your loot on a 30 minute timer is greatly disproportional to you reclaiming your own loot.

As things are now with server density as it is and you go down with nobody in sight, that loot is most likely gone. If somebody sinks you or is just in the area and sees you go down, the loot is most likely theirs.

With the proposed suggestion with server density as it is and you go down with nobody in sight, that loot is most likely going to be yours again. If somebody sinks you or is just in the area and sees you go down, the loot is most likely theirs.

The only real difference here is whether or not the original owner of the loot will be able to retrieve it. Which is partly why I do not like the suggestion.

@targasbr And you your own, but at least I can defend mine and offer more than "I don't understand"...

@targasbr You talk about logic, and then start making up "facts".

You argue that it would be easy to find the loot, but in fact, the difference between seeing a light in the sea and seeing birds flying is not much, I even venture to say that it is harder to find if we can only see the birds or even only a part of the ship.

You have got to be kidding me, right? Not much difference between 4-5+ square radius (birds) around your boat versus a 1/4 square radius (glint) around your boat.

Other enemies would have a chance to see the loot too, so the chance of loss is the same.

Again, this is not true unless the enemy either sunk you or was close enough to see you sink. If they are not, they will most likely not cross paths with this loot before the crew who sunk makes it back because they know right where they sunk. Perfect example was while I was playing last night.

While on a Brig at Lone Cove, I watched a Galleon stop at Kraken Watchtower which was active at the time. When I left Lone Cove to head off to Lonely Isle, I noticed the Galleon sailing South away from the fort even though it was still active. I watched them sink, quickly turned my ship from South to East and headed that way with my sails full billow. As I got close, we saw the telltale glint and I dropped anchor right over it as it all started to sink. I managed to save 3 of the 7 things I saw sinking, but no big deal. While we were at the location where the Galleon sank, we could see the Galleon had spawned at Marauders Arch and were on their way back as we were getting our anchor up.

At this point, there are NO other ships in the area other than us and the Galleon. As we got back to Lonely Isle and began our work, that Galleon was attempting to look for their loot which they would have had NO chance at retrieving had we not taken it.

We were lucky, we were in the area and watched them sink. If we weren't, under the proposed system, that Galleon would have all of their loot back with no real consequence for sinking. We were lucky because server density gives great distance between players, we were near a fort which increased the odds of a sighting.

Here is a little picture to help you visualize. Anything outside that green had no shot at that loot, nor should they.

Larger Image

I really still do not understand what the problem is in wanting a game with a little more realism.

This isn't really realism as it is more about catering to those who don't like losing their progress.

Realism would have the ship possibly hang around for a short time, but it would most likely have the ship sink to the depths never to be seen again, no loot for anyone. A single hulled ship with no bulkheads is not going to stay afloat like you seem to imagine it would. Realism would have the crew who sunk be completely done with their session as they are no more, so at the very least be merged to a different server to start their pirate life over again.

I am all for variety in shipwrecks, or supply barrels forming where a ship sank provided they have only a portion of that ships supplies. I do not believe they should trigger a shipwreck in the game that contains all of their loot/supplies for the same reasons I have stated over and over in this thread.

@archangel-timmy

I still do not understand why you're against someone trying to recover your treasure ...

The story of the pirates is driven by greed, if a pirate survives a fight or sinking and knows that at some point may still contain his treasure, he will surely find a trip and navigate the place to look for. What prevents him from doing this? Why can not he take that chance?

Returning to the game, the fact that a person can recover the sunken treasure is the same thing as having been sunk by another ship and then hunt this ship to recover the treasure, in the end it is the same thing ... so if you follow your logic, the fact that it was sunk again had no consequence since it may be possible to recover the loot.

I understand that you need a consequence because it has been sunk, for this it is enough the game to put you in the opposite end of where you sank so that it takes to return and in the place that sank it is well evidenced for the other players that there can be something in the water.

If you are sunk by someone it is logical that this ship will already plunder the boat that sank, but it takes a little longer than collecting while things are boiling, and this time can generate fights with other boats that are also close to seeing one boat stopped in the middle of the void ...

This business of collecting things floating is something that is afraid of fighting and only wants to collect quickly and run away to sell. The game needs more realism, combat action, PVP, more encounters with other trip's.
This business of taking action and running fast for fear of being robbed is already tired.

@jet-fire-diego said in keep wrecks sunken ship + do not float treasures:

@archangel-timmy
I still do not understand why you're against someone trying to recover your treasure ...

I am not against another player recovering your treasure, I am against the treasure sitting there long enough for the original player to easily return and retrieve it.

The story of the pirates is driven by greed, if a pirate survives a fight or sinking and knows that at some point may still contain his treasure, he will surely find a trip and navigate the place to look for. What prevents him from doing this? Why can not he take that chance?

For realism sake, based on the amount of loot and if a lot of time hasn't passed as well as the wreck being in shallow enough water or on land, they possibly would. But they aren't going to go on a deep sea salvage operation and their ship isn't going to be anywhere reachable or where it went down at all due to currents.

Back to the game now, when loot is near land, it floats and settles on the bottom for an extended period of time allowing for recovery. When out to sea, it allows for a short time of recovery and sinks into the abyss.

Aside from a wreck in the shallows, it seems as though your chances are already higher than they should be to recover your loot in the open sea as you have a small chance of spawning close enough.

Returning to the game, the fact that a person can recover the sunken treasure is the same thing as having been sunk by another ship and then hunt this ship to recover the treasure, in the end it is the same thing ... so if you follow your logic, the fact that it was sunk again had no consequence since it may be possible to recover the loot.

How is retrieving your loot exactly where it sank in a location most likely only known to you and most likely uncontested anywhere near the same thing as being sunk by another crew and having to find/chase/fight them all over again to retrieve it? Those are on completely opposite sides of the spectrum here.

I understand that you need a consequence because it has been sunk, for this it is enough the game to put you in the opposite end of where you sank so that it takes to return and in the place that sank it is well evidenced for the other players that there can be something in the water.

A 20-30 minute trek across the map to recover potentially hours worth of work isn't really much of a consequence. The original crew, unless sunk by another crew or at least witnessed closely by another crew, will have a superior advantage when it comes to retrieving that loot. They know exactly where the loot is in a sparsely populated world. I am not arguing that another crew couldn't stumble upon it, I am arguing that it is largely in favor of the original crew which is a problem.

If you are sunk by someone it is logical that this ship will already plunder the boat that sank, but it takes a little longer than collecting while things are boiling, and this time can generate fights with other boats that are also close to seeing one boat stopped in the middle of the void ...

If multiple boats are party/witness to the sinking of your ship, they can contest it. No issues there, never had a problem with it. If they are fighting and taking the time for you to come back and join the fray, that is also fine as you can fight over whatever loot was recovered before it sank.

This business of collecting things floating is something that is afraid of fighting and only wants to collect quickly and run away to sell. The game needs more realism, combat action, PVP, more encounters with other trip's.
.
This business of taking action and running fast for fear of being robbed is already tired.

If you are sunk by another crew, they shouldn't have to wait around diving a wreck for you to return. It isn't about them not wanting to fight, they obviously sunk you. Whats tiring is sinking a ship just to have to put up with the same crew coming back over and over and over while you are stuck in a single location. How is that realism?

Realism would be battering a ship until they submit and give you their loot without further incident and without sinking them. From my understanding of history, even though they spent their life at sea, the number of proficient swimmers was quite low. You think they are going to go deep sea diving for some treasure? Realism would put that ship out of reach with all of the loot and no chance of recovery.

Alas, this isn't about realism. It is about a higher chance to save your precious loot that was lost without any real consequences or work.

@ruigtand-nl Actually it could be genius. Imagine hiding out in the ship graveyard with kegs or lining up kegs among the wreckages. Crew sails in trying to get close when you ignite them all.

They just need to take 1 look at how atlas does their sunken ships. Do the same or as close to the same as possible. (I absolutely love it)

@dreadzepp
In atlas you have to first grind hours for resources to build a boat.

For example the schooner.
Our equivalent of the galleon.
It takes like 24 medium planks to build the outside shell of the ship. These planks take resources to build in atlas. Anyway. As the ship takes damage those planks have health and completely get removed when fully damaged. And need to be replaced as they fell off. Once the ship eventually sinks completly the loot on the ship stays in the boxes as long as they didnt get destroyed in battle the ship then sinks and leaves a pile of floating logs in the water to mark it. You then can use the diving suit on a ship to dive down and recover some of it. until the timer on the sunken ship either runs out or the ship gets looted for resources.

@sargent-sully

The fort battle could slowly move to the outskirts where the battle continues in and over all the shipwrecks with resources, barrels and loot still inside while new ships arrive and continue to crash and sink it sounds lovely :")