When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?

Individual should do what they always should do

do what is best for them

if the environment is one that puts too much weight on higher risk, don't take higher risks. Don't work for free. If it's fun, if it's rewarding, if it's balanced then put in the work, if it's not then don't

If these qol improvements work then contribute to higher risk

if they don't then play lower risk

Remember this, they need you to produce and participate, don't give that away for free, have them earn your participation through qol improvements. Reward good treatment and avoid low quality treatment.

There are still profitable lower risk options in the game, more than ever before.

@tesiccl said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

@arch-ideall turn around and defend your ship.

Easily said then done.

@tesiccl said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

You have 2 mast hit chances by a chain shot

Just like the brig (but the galleon you need 3 to fully 'remove' the sails) if you want to stop them. Sure if you shoot one down, they lose some speed, however, the brig can shoot 2 chains at the same time, so still can shoot down your sails quicker then the other way around. The brig still has the advantage there.

@tesiccl said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

your anchor no longer drops when hit by chain shots

Isn't that just for every ship?

the popcorning was fixed

The first one was good for a sloop (you where 'thrown' back less, so you stayed on your ship), but the second one (lower impact on ships and less range) only hurt sloops. It's now harder for sloops to use blunderbombs to turn the broadside of a brig/gally away from you.
On top of that: the 2 cannons vs 1 cannon problem still is there, and since the brig has 2 people firing, they can continiously fire them on you, while you can't do the same back. Still a balance issue.

they reduced cursed cannonballs being found around the world and being carried.

This hurt sloops more. Again the 2v1 problem on cannons (also creating that a sloop cannonier can only carry 5 now, while the brig can carry 10 since it has 2 cannoneers). But also sloops needed those more to be able to create an upper hand with them, since the brig is just way stronger.

It’s been balanced in your favour already

It has not been balanced at all. The enormous difference has become a bit smaller, but a brig still is clearly stronger. The sloop crew still need to be significantly more skilled to be able to beat a brig crew.
A way bigger problems are solo sloops. They are still very extremely unbalanced. Especially for solo sloops there need to change something. And it wouldn't surprise me if most of the runners are solo sloops, since fighting is basicly not even an option for them unless you are very skilled or the brig is made up of new players.

just stop running away.

If people want to run, it is their right. Tools not rules, remember?
On top of that i question why a sloop should not be allowed to run, while a brig can extremely easily do that. The sail speeds are just way out of balance.

I'd like to see greater encouragement to bury your loot to come back later to as a safeguard against being sunk.

@scheneighnay If you bury your loot, they will get your maps when they sink you ;-)

@super87ghost said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

@scheneighnay If you bury your loot, they will get your maps when they sink you ;-)

In theory, yes.
In practice, they don't always take the map bundle and never actually go after the loot on the map, in my personal experience.

I bury all loot that isn't for my current emissary, mark the islands it's at on my map so it persists after sinking, and go after the exact location from memory.
I'll even post the maps to the board when I can because the chances of people actually checking the map board are miniscule, and I've never once had someone recover my treasure from off of the map board while I was still online.

My loot is hidden in plain sight.

@jolly-ol-yep said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

Ok see it this way then....

Everyone talks about the loot as if it had any importance. We ALL KNOW this is often not about the loot at all. (no emissary flag, 20k worth of loot on the prey's ship for example)

First : Gamer's mentality. Big egos. Really big. I-ve-been-defeated-so-you-must-be-a-cheater big.
Some people just won't accept losing. In Overwatch you'd have people leaving at the very last second just so the game don't print "defeat" on their screen. Runners won't stop running. Chasers won't stop chasing. This won't change nothing. Losers will uninstall and give bad reviews on steam/come here to complain. Winners still won't have fights. The 20k worth of loot, it's gonna despawn, as usual.

Second case : what I usually do. If I'm in the mood, I'll fight. If not, too bad for you :

• you decided to "play" with me while I was doing my stuff, OK, roger that !
• first, this could take a while: you're wasting my time already by interffering with my plans. Lemme prepare myself to apprehend the situation. This means I put my sloop against the wind, I go to the bathroom in case and make myself a coffee. I've been on whatever I was doing for like half an hour before you sshowed up, surely you have 5 minutes.
• I come back to the game. Have I crashed into a rock ? No ? Cool. Are you still chasing me ? yes ? Ok, time to annoy you as you annoyed me - remember, this is the "I'm not in the mood for a fight" scenario.
• I proceed to vote down the voyage to the Shores of Gold, I can surely fish there, and now I even have a reason to (I need to catch fishbones as a skelly). Many PvPers don't have the checkpoint, so I hope you'll leave me alone. You have it ? Well, I'm done, as I said I won't bother fighting tonight. GG, have my loot. You don't have it ? Too bad, but not my concern. Go do the story mode.
• After 40 minutes, I still spot you waiting for me outside the Shroud (that actually happened to me more than once) : Well, sorry, for starters, I WILL take the time to kill this meg that spawns everytime you leave Tribute Peak.
• Then I'll try to put my loot if I have any into a rowboat and have you chase my empty ship while I row to an OP.
• If I fail to do so, and still don't wanna fight, just quit the game. And YES, I'm gonna Alt+F4 so that my ship continue to cruise 5 more minutes without me without instantly sinking. Why not ? You decided to mess with me for your fun. I mess with you in retaliation. Then I relaunch the game - or not - and get babck to my business. You're already out my mind.

In any case, you'll probably complain you've been denied a fight, you won't mention the fact you were on a 3-manned brig while I was solo slooping, and you'd argue I could have just scuttled if I wanted to avoid the fight. I'd answer you could have chosen a better prey or cut the chase after 5 minutes when was at the "make myself a coffee" step. No, you decided to waste your time at the moment you're messing with mine, that's on you.

Option 3

avoid the high risk areas and largely avoid non-organic style pvp crews by avoiding main points of interest and just enjoy the game lol

season 8 was great for pve if people just chill a bit and play efficiently

in season 9 if people wanna be left alone just avoid fotd and reaper lights, on servers with fotds do pve away from the area, nobody will be looking for you they will be focused on the fotd

Honestly this change is just going to increase toxicity based on the responses I've been seeing. "You're toxic" this, "no you're the toxic one" that. Rare would be wise to leave this QoL change alone, frankly. Because this isn't going to encourage people to turn around and fight. It's going to encourage people to be even more petty and toxic, get even better at running and wasting people's times (because now that's the only option available to them), or just flat out stop playing as I've seen more than a few people already state. Now whether or not those people are being serious is hard to know, but I know a few casual players who were incredibly put off when I told them about this QoL change and who seem disinclined to continue playing.

As for me, I know how to fight and I know how to run. I usually only run when I'm against a toxic crew, because wasting the time of people throwing out slurs is funny to me while I wait for the report to go through. This feels like a big monkey's paw situation even if you put aside the potential increase in toxicity. (Which when one of the dev's said that this community is one of the nicest they've seen during the livestream, I almost busted a gut laughing.) Sure they can't Red Sea their loot anymore... But that doesn't mean they're going to fight you. It's really not even remotely hard to take even good players on a world tour of the map while you just off and sell your loot one piece at a time. For people invested in being petty, which there is nothing wrong with as this is a pirate game and being petty is part of that ethos, do you really think they won't happily just shift metas to waste more time?

"Oh they'll just fix that then." If you take out ways for people to play the game as they want, which in the livestream was a HUGE point the developers gushed about, then they're going to find other games to play when they're pushed too far. SoT wants to be a PVEPVP game, they can't overly correct in either direction without making people upset. That's why I hope they don't go through with this, because it's just going to cause more issues long term and won't have the magical "oh they'll just fight me now" solution people seem to think will happen. Especially when Rare has shown they rarely think these things through and have to spend several patch cycles fixing their mistakes.

That was not protecting loot. That was destroying loot by abusing the Red Sea despawn barrier or just using the Red Sea to make life unnecessarily difficult for the chasers if they actually wanted the loot.

It was poor sportsmanship, regardless of why it was done.

@nyaore said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

Honestly this change is just going to increase toxicity based on the responses I've been seeing. "You're toxic" this, "no you're the toxic one" that. Rare would be wise to leave this QoL change alone, frankly. Because this isn't going to encourage people to turn around and fight. It's going to encourage people to be even more petty and toxic, get even better at running and wasting people's times (because now that's the only option available to them), or just flat out stop playing as I've seen more than a few people already state. Now whether or not those people are being serious is hard to know, but I know a few casual players who were incredibly put off when I told them about this QoL change and who seem disinclined to continue playing.

As for me, I know how to fight and I know how to run. I usually only run when I'm against a toxic crew, because wasting the time of people throwing out slurs is funny to me while I wait for the report to go through. This feels like a big monkey's paw situation even if you put aside the potential increase in toxicity. (Which when one of the dev's said that this community is one of the nicest they've seen during the livestream, I almost busted a gut laughing.) Sure they can't Red Sea their loot anymore... But that doesn't mean they're going to fight you. It's really not even remotely hard to take even good players on a world tour of the map while you just off and sell your loot one piece at a time. For people invested in being petty, which there is nothing wrong with as this is a pirate game and being petty is part of that ethos, do you really think they won't happily just shift metas to waste more time?

"Oh they'll just fix that then." If you take out ways for people to play the game as they want, which in the livestream was a HUGE point the developers gushed about, then they're going to find other games to play when they're pushed too far. SoT wants to be a PVEPVP game, they can't overly correct in either direction without making people upset. That's why I hope they don't go through with this, because it's just going to cause more issues long term and won't have the magical "oh they'll just fight me now" solution people seem to think will happen.

I think they should invest in some awareness and information

or go big on the maiden voyage with information about risk reward

The goal should be to inform people to help them start with content that makes sense for them and find the right level of risk/reward for them before they get run off

The change is gonna happen, there is no going back

but what we can do is support players by helping them find the right type of content for them and the type of risk taking for them, let them know that we no longer are in a game where they have to do world events to accomplish things

There are levels of risk/reward that are entirely different experiences, we gotta get information to people before they get discouraged and have multiple unpleasant experiences because they think that the path they are on is the "right path" because they don't have info to go off of to say otherwise.

@nyaore said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

(Which when one of the dev's said that this community is one of the nicest they've seen during the livestream, I almost busted a gut laughing.)

Are you serious..? They ACTUALLY said this? Rare is so out of touch it's embarrassing and it only continues to ruin my hopes for the game.

@valor-omega said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

@realstyli If I'm honest, it does feel like they're now leaning more towards catering to the PvP side of the community, and while it's as equally a part of the game as PvE, I'm concerned as you are, that these pro-pvp changes are simply going to drive away more casual players.

Multiple people made fun of my for having this opinion, yet here we are. I cannot comprehend why people are defending the poor behavior from Rare and then throwing it back at the players suggesting "you're playing the game wrong, you shouldn't play that way and instead play this way to avoid problems" Next think you know I'm only allowed to sail in the Devils Roar because of whatever filtered restrictions buddy suggested because "it helps avoid your problems". I shouldn't have to avoid problems that rare can attend to and allow ANY PLAYSTYLE to enjoy

@valor-omega said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

@realstyli If I'm honest, it does feel like they're now leaning more towards catering to the PvP side of the community, and while it's as equally a part of the game as PvE, I'm concerned as you are, that these pro-pvp changes are simply going to drive away more casual players.

it's not really pro pvp it's more catering to content creation and within that it serves some with similar views and content creator viewers that agree but that isn't new and it's largely specific to combat and quick action not entirely pvp as a whole

They do a LOT for pvers just as they have done a LOT for hopping pvpers.

There is less reason to worry through season 8 to now than in the last couple of years. It'll be a slow build but I think they will do alright going into the next few seasons.

I think they much better understand now where to put some of their support for the environment. I never have any issue throwing down criticism when I have it but I think we are at more of a stable point right now even with the current disagreements than we have been in a while.

@n0soup4u said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

@nyaore said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

(Which when one of the dev's said that this community is one of the nicest they've seen during the livestream, I almost busted a gut laughing.)

Are you serious..? They ACTUALLY said this? Rare is so out of touch it's embarrassing and it only continues to ruin my hopes for the game.

This is an odd take to me

the first time in a long time they are specifically offering support to players outside of partner narratives and "big shiny thing" and this is when they are out of touch?

I'd argue they are more in touch right now than I have seen some time.

Also, this community irritates me sometimes with some specific things that I have laid out in detail before but it's very low in toxicity compared to pretty much anywhere online at around this size. When they talk about being proud of the community as it exists I think it's a fair view. Just because it has pockets of toxicity and pockets of drama doesn't take away that toxicity is overall quite rare. People are nice in a more one on one setting, content creation kinda makes it awkward during low activity points but most of the people are decent around the community. There are some truly lovely and kind people. It's a fair opinion in my experience. That applies from solos out there to random open crew encounters to streamers to devs and mods and employees and all of 'em. Lots of decent people.

@wolfmanbush said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

@valor-omega said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

@realstyli If I'm honest, it does feel like they're now leaning more towards catering to the PvP side of the community, and while it's as equally a part of the game as PvE, I'm concerned as you are, that these pro-pvp changes are simply going to drive away more casual players.

it's not really pro pvp it's more catering to content creation and within that it serves some with similar views and content creator viewers that agree but that isn't new and it's largely specific to combat and quick action not entirely pvp as a whole

They do a LOT for pvers just as they have done a LOT for hopping pvpers.

There is less reason to worry through season 8 to now than in the last couple of years. It'll be a slow build but I think they will do alright going into the next few seasons.

I think they much better understand now where to put some of their support for the environment. I never have any issue throwing down criticism when I have it but I think we are at more of a stable point right now even with the current disagreements than we have been in a while.

"content creation" has been a blight on gaming communities.
Devs should be focused on creating the best experience for their players, not for some eceleb's cult.

@scheneighnay said in When will non-pvp players get some QoL win condition in pvp?:

"content creation" has been a blight on gaming communities.
Devs should be focused on creating the best experience for their players, not for some eceleb's cult.

It's just a matter of balancing is all

the only real issue is that so few of them play completely organically that there are less voices at the table that support the organic environment and those that don't post in social circles

and it's really just related to non-organic combat and risk/reward

It's more difficult to gather feedback from people that aren't following streamers around and posting on forums and discords so it's understandable that they aren't always getting feedback from certain groups

That's where the forums come into play, where people can support those that aren't in the social groups so that that the feedback can still be delivered somewhere, over time the hope is that some of that feedback delivered to the forums leads to improvements. It appears that season 9 will have some of those improvements based on feedback that they picked up from somewhere reliable.

I don't see it as a "eceleb" situation as most have roots in the game and community and just worked their way up the social/content ladder. I might disagree with opinions and approaches but to me it doesn't go beyond those substantive disagreements. There are always positives and negatives a situation like content creation.

A positive is that some find community within the social groups, some do charity work, there are positives to it as well. There are also the benefits of entertainment, joy within viewership of content for some people.