Sword dash exploit & its barrier to entry

@Parasrah are you talking about the jump lunge? If you are then I'll tell you right now I didn't know about it up until 4 month ago and I've been playing since day one. Lol. Don't feel bad haha. Definitely not an exploit. Btw there are many ways to board a ship that might have caught you off guard. Lots of times if I see a ship coming head on, to let's say a skullfort, then I'll shoot.myself.out in the water in their direction and just swim.until they sail by and board.

@parasrah

However, often when I have been boarded I didn't feel like I had necessarily done something wrong. Too often there was just suddenly someone aboard my ship, and it always shocked me because it made no logical sense how they had managed to accomplish this feat.

The range of the actual dash is still short, if someone did use it to board your boat, their is no question in my mind that you should have seen the boat. Back on track though, its been accepted, but I can't show some official document. I think I've had an admin say it has or something. Considering right now this game has no tutorial, so I doubt this will be taught to players. However, its pretty easy to do and can easily be learned just by seeing it once. This wouldn't be the first game mechanic discovered that wasn't an official mechanic at the start. For example orb walking and animation canceling.

@parasrah

And I'd argue the sword-lunge exploit is a bigger problem because it's not often something you will actually witness as it's often used pretty stealthily.

Not really, many use it just to get to and from their own ship. Its really quite commonplace to see unless your entire crew is brand new. Otherwise, someone is bound to see it over a session or two. It really is quite common. For the vomit example though, their is a commendation that describes its capabilites. I think its called Tactical Chu/nder or something.

@parasrah

Considering that the executive producer of this game uses the sword lunge technique on the weekly developer streams, as well as other developers, I don't think its on the cutting board. Its here to stay.

Its really simple... block / begin sword lunge while blocking /press the jump button right as the sword lunge releases. I learned how to do it the day I picked up the game.

It isn't an insta-kill like double gunning, its just a way to jump farther and faster. What about this makes it feel like an exploit to you?

@darthmaxor1991

Definitely not an exploit.

It 100% is an exploit. It's using a bug to gain an advantage. It was never intended to be in the game. I've heard that Rare has come out and said they are ok with it, but it's still an exploit. Just a Rare approved exploit.

@parasrah this is an accepted feature since launch, however I do agree with you that even though it is broadly known it is one of the most important mechanic that one needs to learn and if you don't know it can be confusing.

It is the reason that when I meet new players I always ask if they know the interaction between water and sword dashing and the ability to jump. So, you are aware there are two versions, if you hold block while doing a sword dash you can jump and extend your range.

Therefore I would be very happy if there were maybe weapon books, with strategies/tutorials, in the armories explaining the differences and abilities of the weapons in the game or that they can tell you about their wares and what cool things you can do with it.

I even think it would be a good loading screen message in all honesty, to ensure most people read it at some point.

@parasrah It needs to be removed IMO. It just makes the game look bad. Like you said. No one will expect that it's a potential unless someone tells them because it doesn't follow any internal logic of the game. The only reason you would see this exploit as a potential mechanic is if you have META game knowledge. I've played another game called "warframe" and a couple others where this same bug was possible and that's how I was able to figure it out. If Rare want's this kind of functionality in the game then they need to make a proper mechanic that follows the games internal logic and doesn't rely on obvious exploitation of game code.

The game would feel so slow without jumping sword dash.

@seanethermore said in Sword dash exploit & its barrier to entry:

The game would feel so slow without jumping sword dash.

Not really. I play mostly with 2 guns and it's really not that much slower. It just really convenient and mostly just a really powerful tool for clutch situations like getting back to your ship quickly or boarding a ship that you can't otherwise. For most of the game it's not that useful since we have cannons to launch us off and we are usually carrying loot back(so we can't use it). Either way It would be much better if they sped the game up in a more healthy way such as faster swimming, a running dive mechanic, grappling hook we could use to swing, etc. The sword is a melee weapon, not a jetpack. Letting exploits like this stay will hurt the game in the long run.

@betsill your logic is flawed. The game mechanic game was created due to how the games internal logic works. To be exact how the physics work and especially the interaction of a moving object in water and the ability to lunge forward with a sword. It also makes sense that if you would do that you wouldn't come to immediate halt, if you ever jumped in to water that makes sense. It isn't like you come to a complete halt either.

If you mean it is a problem cause they didn't design it at the table, they designed multiple aspects and when introduced with each other they created some unexpected behavior. Some of those behaviors are unfavorable, some of them are favorable and Rare decided this is a favorable one and embraced it while they discovered it before launch. That makes it just as much part of the game as the ability to shoot yourself out of a cannon.

Now they could increase the drag specifically for pirates in water, as it isn't currently realistic, however the feature speeds up a lot of aspects of the game. It allows for an additional distance that people have to navigate around in combat (more depth and skill) and just overall is enjoyable to use. In the end, the game doesn't need perfect real life physics, as its goal is it should be fun and feel like a part of the world, it is a fictional world after all which is true cause look at other aspects of the game. In my belief it also really suits the graphics style and game-play.

All they should do is inform players better about the ability to do so, as when I started I had no idea till I by accident shot myself off my ship at some point. After that I figured it out very quickly with some experimentation, it isn't hard to execute.

@cotu42

your logic is flawed.

No it's not...

The game mechanic game was created due to how the games internal logic works.

NO. It was create because of how coding works. They simply didn't code deceleration into the sword lunge because they intended the collision physics to take care of it. However, since they didn't anticipate that players could removed the collision part(by lunging off an edge, or by utilizing another bug to let them jump while lunging) this was aloud to happen. This is simply Rare not anticipating(idk why because it's not like it's an unknown problem) this happening and didn't code the game to prevent it.

In the game your character can normally jump very short distances and run at a relatively slow speed. Based on the world logic of your characters abilities sword lunge should not be possible. It's like a glitch in the matrix except you only become Neo when using the sword lunge... If sword lunging was part of the games "world logic" and the logic was consistent our characters should be able to jump 10ft+ in the air and run at 4 or 5 times the speed they can now. Idk how to explain this any better. Sword lunge is obviously not something our characters should be capable. It's only possible because of flaws in the games code that don't properly limit a certain mechanic.

@BETSILL so it's not an exploit then. Funny because I've been playing since day one and knew about the lunge. If anything the jump lunge is an exploit.

@darthmaxor1991

so it's not an exploit then.

...

If anything the jump lunge is an exploit.

They both are. The jump lunge is 2 exploits used simultaneously.

@betsill said in Sword dash exploit & its barrier to entry:

@cotu42

your logic is flawed.

No it's not...

The game mechanic game was created due to how the games internal logic works.

NO. It was create because of how coding works. They simply didn't code deceleration into the sword lunge because they intended the collision physics to take care of it. However, since they didn't anticipate that players could removed the collision part(by lunging off an edge, or by utilizing another bug to let them jump while lunging) this was aloud to happen. This is simply Rare not anticipating(idk why because it's not like it's an unknown problem) this happening and didn't code the game to prevent it.

How the coding works... you mean the internal logic of the game, you know that is what the code is right, the logic which the game follows. Also, there is deceleration else you would maintain your momentum and never slow down. There is actual collision however water is not a solid mass and therefore the collision is different.

In the game your character can normally jump very short distances and run at a relatively slow speed. Based on the world logic of your characters abilities sword lunge should not be possible. It's like a glitch in the matrix except you only become Neo when using the sword lunge... If sword lunging was part of the games "world logic" and the logic was consistent our characters should be able to jump 10ft+ in the air and run at 4 or 5 times the speed they can now. Idk how to explain this any better. Sword lunge is obviously not something our characters should be capable. It's only possible because of flaws in the games code that don't properly limit a certain mechanic.

Ever tried diving in a pool? Ever tried it on land? It propels you differently and that is what the sword lunge does as well, so no it isn't a matrix like mechanic and is fairly inline with how the real world works with a little bit of SoT flavor added. I think it suits the game perfect and makes complete sense. Also, the distance you lunge is the same whether it is on land or on water, the difference is on land you are hitting something solid and water is liquid.

I don't see how because you can lunge you should now be able to jump higher, run at increased speeds and have no idea how being able to dive and using your quickest move for it is equivalent to those type of changes. You are now stating that we shouldn't be able to sword lunge all together? Sorry, but the mechanic is perfectly inline with the game world.

The physics engine isn't flawed, nor is the mechanic not properly limited as Rare has been monitoring it since day one. If they believed it would be overpowered which it isn't, as you already mentioned it has its limitations, but it does allows pirates to make clutch moves, adds an additional distance they can cover on seas and adds more depth to the game. These are good things, gives us abilities and choices with their own ups and down sides.

btw. how is something an exploit if it is stated by the makers that it is kept by their choice because they like it? It is a feature of the game, whether you like it or not is something else. However calling it an exploit or bug is inaccurate and misleading trying to add validity to your opposition to the feature by not recognizing that it is an accepted part of the game. That doesn't mean we cannot discuss it or want to see changes to it, but you are being purposefully misleading by calling it these things.

@cotu42 Come on dude this isn't hard. What the code allows doesn't always follow the "logic" of the game world such as with bugs.
Game world logic = the logic that people and things within that world follow and would see as their reality. Magic ghost ships are part of the worlds logic. Bugs are not.

If you've ever seen antman, that movie breaks it's own world logic like every 10 seconds.

Established rule of ant-man world: mass is maintained when you shrink.
10 seoncds later: an ant is carrying a 160+ pound man.

Again this isn't hard. The intuitive logic of this games world does not allow people to gain super powers just because they are holding a sword.

@betsill I don't think they are super powers at all. You even state that you use double guns often enough, so if it was super powers nobody would do that. Also you claim in a post that it doesn't speed up the game as much as one might think, still you claim it is a super power?

A software bug is an error, flaw, failure or fault in a computer program or system that causes it to produce an incorrect or unexpected result, or to behave in unintended ways.

Since RARE has stated they decided to keep the results that it has in the game, before the game was even launched, it isn't unexpected, incorrect or unintended. It is intuitive logic in my opinion, you disagree. You don't like the mechanic, but that doesn't make it by fault an inconsistently in the world or its logic.

This isn't hard you say? No it isn't, yet you keep on calling it an exploit, bug and all that while it abides by the logic of the game, it has been officially recognized as part of the game and yet you keep trying to convince people it isn't any of these things. Sorry, but if RARE states it is part of the game and fits the game than that is the reality as they are the ones that make the determination what is and what isn't logical in this game world.

@cotu42 "As much as one might think" if you never do anything without it. It does speed the game up, but the game was made with the intention that the sword lunge didn't exist. It 100% speeds the game up a fair amount. I might not have explained my thoughts very well, but my main point was that playing without it won't make the game grind to a halt.

If the OP had played more than thirty hours since launch, or perhaps joined more diverse crews, he may have seen this aspect of the game earlier.

No fault of his, of course, just sayin . . . a year later. . . not an exploit.

A feature.

It is no longer a bug but a feature. Pretty sure they even fixed getting caught on the sea floor in one of the updates

I will agree though there's a lot to this game that they should make more obvious and perhaps even make a better tutorial explaining in more detail things like the sword dash

It would be an exploit if it created an unfair advantage. It's logic when you think about it. You can't move or jump when you charge the lunge. But if you block you can move (the game don't tell you this you just figure it out so is that an exploit too?) and also jump. When you lunge off of ledge you go far and you can easily figure it out by experimenting. So it's only natural that you try it anytime while blocking.

It's an unintentional feature discovered by the player base that the devs feel add to the game and I agree. Anyone can accomplish it and when you see it done it's pretty clear how to do it yourself.

The only progression in this game is knowledge of the mechanics from experience. Like learning to stop at an island without dropping the anchor. Or anchor turns for that matter. And playing with open crews and teaching newer players is exactly how they wanted people to learn the ins and outs hence why there are very little true tutorials in this game.

It's literally sink or swim.