Pvp is ruining SOT

I dont get this. People always harping on about pvp this and pve that.

Maybe im a complete muppet, but thats what I love about this game, the unpredictability and some times as a result I lose out and sometimes I win. Isnt that just the nature of life though?

@drbullhammer said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@savagetwinky how people react is not based solely on if they are attacked, it also depends on the attitude of the attacker, the overall experience during that session, real life factors outside of the game. Improperly gathered data results in an invalid survey.

You can say that about most surveys when people are filling out, what their day is like if they are responding to a recent event etc...

Its not perfect but its far from completely inaccurate.

@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

People come and go, as someone that has PvP'd from the beginning my experience on the PvP end has become lackluster because mostly anyone good has left the game or is disinterested in playing it. You missed that distinction. Being apart of a galleon crew there just aren't as many galleons's around that can put up a fight. And sloops generally don't want to. However, the vast majority of people do not engage in PvP often enough to get good at it so you end up with a situation where someone can lose hours of progress because of PvP. I think part of my experience is being on a galleon where the majority of ships on any server now are smaller ships.

The game's current implementation of PvP has turned into undermining someone else's progress. There isn't enough focus on loot for PvP... the voyage system just doesn't construct that type of game. Its completely hit or miss if someone has loot... I mean most of my PvP night's nowadays is just us decorating our ship with Athena crates from other ships, getting their crews to join us and getting them killed, or releasing them on an island and hunting them down. This issue only got exasperated with cooperative events because there is nothing to gain for PvP there.

edit: rereading your post again its clear you didn't understand what I've said or it wasn't clear. I didn't say "no one wants to put up a fight". I said willing and CAN are mostly rare. I haven't been sunk off guard in a while. I've been sunk by 4 crews total in 3 months of play. I remember each of the situations. They all held there own in combat where we were the aggressor, except for one crew of try hards that were stream snipers. The vast majority of PvPing I do doesn't feel good. It feels like borderline griefing. I'm salty because the game is not well structured for fun engaging PvP. I don't get chased, we don't run. We killed 4 alliance ships in a row on stock resources at a fort...

So, in short my reading in between the lines is correct: You would like a way that PvP is more rewarding to give an incentive to the community to become better pirates when it comes to PvP, while the whole 'work with other crew' mentality is creating a too peaceful environment. - Just to point out your original post really does not reflect this.

I did not miss the distinction you had made there at all, as I mentioned: "Though there are clear differences in skill levels and a fun fight can be hard to come by." We have somewhat of an agreement on that and I would love to have like a Bounty system or something to give people a reason to go out on to the sea and PvP. As I too felt so rusty after the three weeks of skeleton ships: "Lets be in an Alliance" event, that I actually told my crew that for a couple of sessions I no longer would be the 'friendly legend' or 'reasonable legend' but the 'blood crazed legend'.

I also do believe that just playing on a Galleon is not helping your cravings for difficult engaging PvP. It is the strongest PvP vessel out there due to the simple fact that the crew can do 4 things at the same time - especially when coordinated it can feel like an unstoppable force. Not to mention it is the ship that can take the biggest beating before going down.

For that reason also most people do not want to engage in a battle with it. When I personally get engaged by a galleon while on a sloop I only take the battle if I have rocks/shallows around that I can use to my advantage, else I head to such a location to have the battle there (if they are persistent). The other two vessels are far more prone that a mistake leads to your demise. That increases the excitement level and satisfaction level (at least for me) on a PvP difficulty end.

Though to be honest, you cannot make statements like: "mostly anyone good has left the game or is disinterested in playing it." - How do you know? 'cause your friends left? Due to the limited players you have encountered in your sessions that you actually fought?

These type of statements are based on anecdotal evidence and have no value and tend to rub people the wrong way as you are implying: You are bad 'cause you still play the game and are interested in playing. Not to mention derails the conversation you want to have to begin with, as you have noticed people are replying to these statements that in reality you also cannot back up in any shape or form - as we do not have the data to analyze this properly, it could be very well true however neither of us can say so definitively one way or the other.

@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@drbullhammer said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@savagetwinky you're not conducting a survey. Your gameplay affects the responses you receive. You aren't taking down data about how long people have played, what they want from the game, what they typically want from a game, what they would like to see added/removed/changed.

Except that is basically the survey, the response to my gameplay is a pretty clear answer to how people perceive PvP.

It's not a survey. A survey is a survey. You can't make sweeping conclusions about the game based upon one person's gameplay. From everything you described, it sounds like your "gameplay" is highly aggressive, sometimes to the point of griefing. It hardly surprises me that your style of gaming results in a lot of unhappy people. You seem to be arguing that based upon your experience, Sea of Thieves is doing something wrong. To me, it appears that the problem is with your attitude, not with the game. You seem to want the game to be something it's not.

Most people in my experiences "get it." Most are not hyper aggressive, nor are they helpless sheep. They're somewhere in the middle, like me; people who enjoy the freedom and balance this game offers. Our personal experiences certainly do influence our perception of the game, and the way others respond to us. Calling such perceptions a "survey" is absurd. A survey is a survey. Just going around sinking people all day and observing that the people you encounter seem to be unhappy is rather obtuse.

@letslipthedogs said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

2 hours of gathering supplies and getting powder barrels to go do the skelly shop with a new player that never seen them. Here they come idiot PVP players who want to screw your night up! They did sunk us while 3 of us were on an island. Went and played Destiny Forsaken. Rare there are many other games to play. Pvp will sink SOT also.

This is sarcasm and comedy, right?

@personalc0ffee said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@savagetwinky two words.

Anecdotal Evidence.

You do not have the stats that Rare has, you can not say with certainty what is and is not working.

You are speculating and I am speculating.

Period, done.

Where are you to write this every time people say this game is "THRIVING!" ?

@savagetwinky

most don't even put up a fight they just scuttle or tell us to take everything.

Yeah. It's a new way to grief PvPers. They hate when they chase a ship across a map and their prey suddenly sinks as the first shot is fired. :-)

@letslipthedogs said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@aod-fluid dude I like this game a lot but I don't have time to waste on children.

That is a good thing, I am an adult and PvP all the time in this game.

@personalc0ffee said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@savagetwinky No, what's happened is all the murder happy children are back in school and those that gave up on the game on launch from Alpha onwards have been replaced by newer people who are not as skilled.

There are tons of us still left in the sea. As they play the game more, they will get better but if you're only looking for fights, you're going to be disappointed.

This game is not about that, was my point and I don't think it ever will be.

And no, Mr Twinky, I think the game does a fantastic job of blending the two playstyles and mechanics together, just not for gun happy trigger bang bang shooty people who want a esport competitive pvp experience.

They are just going to have to get that elsewhere.

I have no troubles finding Pvp, i only look for fights. 60 to 70 % of the loot I used to hit pirate legend was taken thru Pvp.

There are a few people out there that cry when we sink them but ever so often you get an epic fight that makes the last 10 ships u sunk searching for that fight worth it.

If rare can clean up the bugs. I can see me easily playing this game for the foreseeable future, with a Pvp only stance towards gameplay.

@surveyorpete said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@savagetwinky

most don't even put up a fight they just scuttle or tell us to take everything.

Yeah. It's a new way to grief PvPers. They hate when they chase a ship across a map and their prey suddenly sinks as the first shot is fired. :-)

That's not griefing silly. I just move on to my next intended target after they scuttle. Most of the time when I'm chasing someone, Im searching for my next target anyways. Either way I'm sailing thru looking for targets whether it's chasing u or just sailing. It's extra sweet to chase someone down while searching. If you pve'ers think scuttling is griefing. You're gravely mistaken.. please scuttle, just less time I have to hunt for supplies and if u do scuttle, leave the server as well so us pvpers get new prey to hunt down.

@cotu42 said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

People come and go, as someone that has PvP'd from the beginning my experience on the PvP end has become lackluster because mostly anyone good has left the game or is disinterested in playing it. You missed that distinction. Being apart of a galleon crew there just aren't as many galleons's around that can put up a fight. And sloops generally don't want to. However, the vast majority of people do not engage in PvP often enough to get good at it so you end up with a situation where someone can lose hours of progress because of PvP. I think part of my experience is being on a galleon where the majority of ships on any server now are smaller ships.

The game's current implementation of PvP has turned into undermining someone else's progress. There isn't enough focus on loot for PvP... the voyage system just doesn't construct that type of game. Its completely hit or miss if someone has loot... I mean most of my PvP night's nowadays is just us decorating our ship with Athena crates from other ships, getting their crews to join us and getting them killed, or releasing them on an island and hunting them down. This issue only got exasperated with cooperative events because there is nothing to gain for PvP there.

edit: rereading your post again its clear you didn't understand what I've said or it wasn't clear. I didn't say "no one wants to put up a fight". I said willing and CAN are mostly rare. I haven't been sunk off guard in a while. I've been sunk by 4 crews total in 3 months of play. I remember each of the situations. They all held there own in combat where we were the aggressor, except for one crew of try hards that were stream snipers. The vast majority of PvPing I do doesn't feel good. It feels like borderline griefing. I'm salty because the game is not well structured for fun engaging PvP. I don't get chased, we don't run. We killed 4 alliance ships in a row on stock resources at a fort...

So, in short my reading in between the lines is correct: You would like a way that PvP is more rewarding to give an incentive to the community to become better pirates when it comes to PvP, while the whole 'work with other crew' mentality is creating a too peaceful environment. - Just to point out your original post really does not reflect this.

No. That's not at all what I said, which is why it doesn't reflect my original post. You're not reading between lines... your making stuff up.

I did not miss the distinction you had made there at all, as I mentioned: "Though there are clear differences in skill levels and a fun fight can be hard to come by." We have somewhat of an agreement on that and I would love to have like a Bounty system or something to give people a reason to go out on to the sea and PvP. As I too felt so rusty after the three weeks of skeleton ships: "Lets be in an Alliance" event, that I actually told my crew that for a couple of sessions I no longer would be the 'friendly legend' or 'reasonable legend' but the 'blood crazed legend'.

If you didn't miss the distinction then you wouldn't have argued that I was somehow contradicting myself. That distinction makes the two scenarios possible. PvE'rs and solo/duo crews are the ones that seem to stick around the longest and are the most competent while aggressive players don't stay to reach PL and never mature their skills.. so its a lopsided range of players. I also didn't say PvP is the reason that the game is being ruined... that was the OP.

And no, I wouldn't agree a bounty system is worthwhile. I don't want a separate arbitrary reason to pvp. I want the pirate game and world PvP that allows us to fight over loot. I want the voyage mechanics redesigned a little to better facilitate players engaging each other more often in the normal course of PvE. Something that can foster healthy competition over loot instead of it feeling like you just screwing over someone's progress.

I also do believe that just playing on a Galleon is not helping your cravings for difficult engaging PvP. It is the strongest PvP vessel out there due to the simple fact that the crew can do 4 things at the same time - especially when coordinated it can feel like an unstoppable force. Not to mention it is the ship that can take the biggest beating before going down.

For that reason also most people do not want to engage in a battle with it. When I personally get engaged by a galleon while on a sloop I only take the battle if I have rocks/shallows around that I can use to my advantage, else I head to such a location to have the battle there (if they are persistent). The other two vessels are far more prone that a mistake leads to your demise. That increases the excitement level and satisfaction level (at least for me) on a PvP difficulty end.

It is also the most fun requiring the most teamwork. Which means maybe there is a problem with matchmaking having too many sloops or maybe too many antisocial people in a teamwork based game on sloops.

Though to be honest, you cannot make statements like: "mostly anyone good has left the game or is disinterested in playing it." - How do you know? 'cause your friends left? Due to the limited players you have encountered in your sessions that you actually fought?

You could say limited but I fight everyone I encounter. Again 4 crews in total put up a worthwhile fight in 3 months. The vast majority of players we encounter are newish or inexperience in pvp. Which would suggest Good pvpers don't stick around creating an uneven distribution... Combine that with the fact that its harder to get PvP groups as time goes on means there are less people availble that want to PvP on a regular basis + a fairly common opinion in that particular circle...

These type of statements are based on anecdotal evidence and have no value and tend to rub people the wrong way as you are implying: You are bad 'cause you still play the game and are interested in playing. Not to mention derails the conversation you want to have to begin with, as you have noticed people are replying to these statements that in reality you also cannot back up in any shape or form - as we do not have the data to analyze this properly, it could be very well true however neither of us can say so definitively one way or the other.

That's not what I implied at all, I didn't even hint at people are bad because they are interested in playing. Half the things you're arguing against are concepts I didn't even speak... where are you coming up with this stuff? Reading part of what I said out of context and making the rest up?

I wouldn't entirely call it anecdotal though. Experience isn't necessarily anecdotal and I've fought many many people, with many people that like to PvP and fight on sight all the time. And I play with random pre made aggressive players often.

This is a pretty common experience I have on a regular basis and a pretty shared experience with everyone I play with as well as the new people that rotate in to replace people that are disinterested and come back less and less.

@personalc0ffee said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@savagetwinky Game has it absolutely right. Sorry you don't agree. Time to agree to disagree.

New players come to see this game daily. Must be doing something right and that's about all I'm going to say that.

And veterans are leaving daily. Must be doing something wrong.

@personalc0ffee said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@savagetwinky Why do you think they aren't? Because you said so? Because your friends said so?

Well I said they are. So what do you think of that?

Fact: ONLY Rare knows, so you and me, we're speculating.

3 different mega threads about broken barrel UI say so . Hard to pvp when you are stuck looking at a barrel inventory screen.

@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@personalc0ffee said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@savagetwinky No they aren't, that's the hardcore PvP'ers who don't want to PvE.

This is not Skull & Bones or Blackwake. There was never a huge emphasis on competitive PvP ever in this game and I don't feel there ever will be.

Because it encourages griefing and bad, disgusting, toxic behavior. (See every competitive esport title here)

This is complete nonsense. I'm not even sure who you are responding to. And aggressive players have been leaving.

The only players that leave are the ones that want something from the game that it is not and never will be. Generally those are the people that want PvP only or PvE only. Their vision is clouded by their own desires for the game rather than embracing what it actually is.

I generally am a PvE first player that will take part in PvP when it comes to me. But that isn't all there is to my game. There have been plenty of days, especially lately (mostly because I am sick of hearing about how dead PvP is, so I go out and do it to prove that they are wrong, and I have not been disappointed with the results as it very much still exists, you just need to be patient to find it), when I go all PvP and have a blast doing it.

I see the game for what it is, a sandbox where anything can and usually will happen. As a result I enjoy this game immensely, as do most people I come in contact with.

@trickrtreat01 Once again, I have done countless battles since the UI and not once did the UI cause us to lose a battle. The only time we lost a battle because of something in game was thanks to karen blocking our path to the stairs while getting shot up from another ship and getting wailed on by karen.

Just last night my brig sunk two galleons, two of them twice, one three times. One of the galleons we sunk while fighting skelly ships. Talk about mayhem. But not once did we lose our ship until the very end of the night when we all were well worn out from a glorious day of fun, battle and rewards.

You really need to actually give it a try for a while. Every week, even with the glitches and other issues that have a much bigger impact on game play than the UI or cursed cannonballs, I continue to find enjoyment in the game. I continue to find lots of PvP despite hearing how it is dead. Our team continues to enjoy the game for what it is. And each week we end up with new adventures and new stories to add to the growing list.

And in all fairness, while we win most battles, we do lose some as well. Just this past sunday we went up against a galleon with a crew of PC players that were very skilled. We got annihilated and yet my only complaint about that encounter is that when I tried to salute them for a job well done and share a grog with them, they killed me. But that is ok, and that is why this game is awesome. You never know what will happen.

Check out my post Alliance With a friend on the same server

@nofears-fun said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@personalc0ffee said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@savagetwinky No they aren't, that's the hardcore PvP'ers who don't want to PvE.

This is not Skull & Bones or Blackwake. There was never a huge emphasis on competitive PvP ever in this game and I don't feel there ever will be.

Because it encourages griefing and bad, disgusting, toxic behavior. (See every competitive esport title here)

This is complete nonsense. I'm not even sure who you are responding to. And aggressive players have been leaving.

The only players that leave are the ones that want something from the game that it is not and never will be. Generally those are the people that want PvP only or PvE only. Their vision is clouded by their own desires for the game rather than embracing what it actually is.

I generally am a PvE first player that will take part in PvP when it comes to me.

Wrong. The players that are leaving are leaving because the game has changed too much from what it once was. It was all there. And it was all changed or taken away. You being a PVE player, I guess you just can't understand it. That isn't meant as an insult, it's just how it is.

@trickrtreat01 While I focus more on PvE, I am definitely not defined as solely a PvE player. So let's make that clear. And I have had more PvP these past two weeks than I did the entire first 4-5 months of game play. Partly because I am much more comfortable doing it now than I was before. And trust me, if you come at our ship, we will probably sink you. And if we lose, which is very rare, then I will salute you. Simple as that.

@nofears-fun said in Pvp is ruining SOT:

@trickrtreat01 While I focus more on PvE, I am definitely not defined as solely a PvE player. So let's make that clear. And I have had more PvP these past two weeks than I did the entire first 4-5 months of game play. Partly because I am much more comfortable doing it now than I was before. And trust me, if you come at our ship, we will probably sink you. And if we lose, which is very rare, then I will salute you. Simple as that.

I just wonder how much CCB's are part of you being more confident. Before CCB's were introduced, I would say your chances against my crew would be slim. Now I would say who knows. You don't have to really learn to anchor anyone, you can put the crew to sleep....
I don't even care to find out. I can see why you like it so much.

@trickrtreat01 Not one bit, and as I have told you many times, not once did CCB's make a real difference in any battle I have been in. And I don't use them at all, except against skelly ships and skellies on land. Watching those b*****s dance is so hilarious.

@letslipthedogs Then please go play it. There is no need to call people idiots just because you disagree with their play style. Learn from your mistakes. If you weren't paying enough attention to see another ship, that is no ones fault except your own. Learn from that, "pay attention to your surroundings." You can do this, but if you don't enjoy playing the game please play what you do enjoy. No reason to suffer playing something you don't enjoy.