The PvP/PvE Conundrum

The only sensible solution is making outposts safe zones. The word Thieves is in the title of this game folks, get used to it. Stop complaining and pay better attention so you don't get your stuff ganked. Not that hard.

Perhaps the voyage and treasure system should be changed.
How about completing the voyages gives you the rep, and turning in the treasure gives you the gold?At least you'd have something already if a crew steals all your stuff, and would stop the soul crushing defeat of playing for hours to come up empty handed right now.

Separate the two. Right now turn in gives you everything and when players see a ship they are like GO GO GO! GET GET GET! But what most players I've played with want is that juicy rep right now for unlocks. PVPers would think is the battle worth it just for some gold they may or may not have?

I think it might also slow down the skeleforts being the best thing in the game right now and the toxic battles around them. Yea sure they could reward a lot of gold but nothing else.

The flip side of this is it would MAKE players actually do the voyages for rep, and some don't want to do those because they are boring or time consuming. What makes you a pirate legend? Farming skeleforts all day and server hopping, or doing all the voyages?

I like the idea of outposts not necessarily being safe zones, but more of a 'finish line' for those just looking to grab loot and turn it in. What I'm thinking is a perimeter around the outpost that triggers consequences if you decide to attack while inside.

Perhaps you do this once or twice at a certain outpost, and you may have to pay a fine to dock there; a couple more times? Perhaps the merchants charge you more. A few more times? Prepare to be fired upon by the inhabitants of the island upon sight, due to making their home a war-zone. You could also clear the level of hostility of the outpost by completing voyages purchased at that outpost.

You can still fire at me at the outpost, sure. But I also need a way to 'complete' the engagement in a way other than the methods you propose (combat). Yes, I can evade you, but there is nothing stopping you from continuously chasing me. By making the outposts somewhat 'guarded' territory, it gives me a place to run for, and puts some risk into the PvP method.

Find me on an island or in the open seas and take me down? Congrats, enjoy the loot, you earned it. But giving me a place where I can have a moment of respite and congratulate myself on evading you is also nice. PvP doesn't have to be all about destroying each other, it could also be how I got away and still bought you a drink at the tavern afterward.

@waaahggaming Where are you getting your stats from? PvP Players outnumber PvE players in PvP games. Especially, in FPS games such as CoD, BF, Fortnite, PUBG, Overwatch, and Sea of Thieves of course.

The only way that I could ever support a PvE only server is if players on a PvE only server were unable to gain any Reputation while playing in their "digital safe space". You can still get the chests, skulls, money, etc.. you can't just increase your Reputation any.

I don't understand what all the fuss is about in the current game. PvE players and their endless quest for vertical progression and in-game shinies ruin everything.....

@hifi74 said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@davidbarlow said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@desolate-hollow

What I'm trying to say is, people need to get better at the came if you complain about balance in pvp. It's a pirate game after all. And making 'safezones' would just ruin the realism(?) of the pirate aspect of the game.

What realism? I mean hell when you can't even log in, get to your ship, drop sails, and pull up your anchor without being targeted and your ship sunk before you can even leave the dock there is no point in realism because you just don't even want to play the game anymore at that point. Yay I spent $60 on a game and the only place I've been able to see is the outpost. Well thats entertaining and worth my money........

If you are just starting a session, and have a ship get all the way to you before you have even left an outpost. Then this game probably just isn't for you. It's literally the easiest thing to get on a ship and leave within seconds. Even if you are hit a few times, it's simple to go and patch up the ship while you are still moving.

I have been hit numerous times playing solo and haven't sank yet. More experience is what is needed for some players. And again. There are 6 ships total in any server. Only 6.
For an entire large map, this is nothing. If there was 15+ ships sailing around I could understand some of the comments. But not when there is literally you and 5 others in a massive playground. There is 6 outposts. This means if all 5 ships are doing nothing at all in the game but sitting at 5 different outposts. Then there is still a free one for you. This will never happen though, as people enjoy actually moving and doing things in the game.

@pnight14 said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

The only sensible solution is making outposts safe zones. The word Thieves is in the title of this game folks, get used to it. Stop complaining and pay better attention so you don't get your stuff ganked. Not that hard.

That would also ruin some of the very rare experiences of meeting others on an outpost and fighting each other to get the loot sold. The more you take away from the game, the worse it becomes. If they do that, then people will want forts to be pve safezones. Then that fun element of battles is gone too. At that point there may as well be no pvp and just have everybody safely journeying to islands doing nothing til the game dies.

Currently the way the quests are cause the game to be no fun after farming or doing a stronghold. You could spend 2 hours doing quests and get nothing from it or finish a stronghold just to be sunk as soon as you finish. There needs to either be rewards for finishing quests along with the treasure you find, or there needs to be safe zones like at outposts. If this game is truly suppose to have disputes settled at sea like in the code, then make that a fix so that outposts are a safe zone where pirates can take their loot and cash it in. If you have made it to the outpost from wherever your quests were then you deserve to get your rewards. Otherwise completing quests will not give you anything unless you have that chest to cash in. So basically their needs to be a limit on pvp. There should be safe spots on the map or even better have dedicated servers. Those who want pave, pvp, or both in a server can choose that.

@desolate-hollow I agree with you, and personally think that's a great idea PvE servers. At least PvE servers for solo players. Don't get me wrong, I love the ship battles and all the PvP activities, but mostly when I am with friends. But when in a solo journey, guiding, shooting, repairing and throwing the water out of the sloop, trying to defend your goodies, is annoying and way hard to do.

If in 5 hours you didn’t return one check and they all got swiped that’s your own fault if they make pve servers it makes the game pointless

I feel this game should keep the Open world PvPvE Servers. However; Elite Dangerous follows a successful method of fixing this issue that I think SoT could benefit from borrowing. With an Open Mode - What we have now and Private/Solo Sessions that let groups of friends or solo players play the game how they enjoy. It will appeal to a lot more players that way; not to mention could serve to cater to both the PvP and PvE community. (PvP private servers between friends for customized battles perhaps?) As well as you wouldn't need to alter programming or mechanics to cater to ship-to-ship combat or damage because it wouldn't be required. Open is meant to be that free-for-all, and Solo/Private the only thing that can damage you besides the PvE NPCs are the players you invite in. Everybody wins.

For those using the argument 'This divides the community'. Although you may feel that to be true, it actually isn't; not in any noticeable sense. The game maps only hold a small number of ships/players already; and merges servers seamlessly when one becomes too empty. So those who play the Open mode will never be at a lack for finding others. What WILL happen if Rare doesn't aknowledge the obvious outcry of the PvE community who wants to play the game on a more casual level is they will walk away from the game altogether when they realize that the game isn't what they want, the PvP groups are grating on their desire to enjoy the game, and feel that Rare is not going to ever change it; which has a WORSE effect than 'dividing' the player base. That means more people requesting refunds. More people telling their friends and others to avoid the game. Less revenue for Rare to use for updates/support/content, and ultimately; if MS sees their bottom line go enough, and enough people DO leave. The game may lose it's server support. There goes your PvP sandbox.

Those who advocate for PvP may not like it, and I can appreciate that fact; but PvE players DO make up a large portion of the games playerbase already as we've seen in the slew of forum threads. The threat IS there, and consumers will vote with their wallets. And one way or another that affects the PvP community.

To further illustrate my point, I'll use an example from my playing on Day 1 of the game's release. I decided to try Slooping Solo first. Get my sea legs and a feel for the game. I was under the impression Solo mode was just that. Alone, no other ships. I was ignorant to the fact the game was always open world. So I travelled along fearlessly. Making rookie mistakes, not caring. Just plainly enjoying myself and the PvE. I tell you it was easily the most fun I had on this game. And gave me such a good taste of the game. I was having a blast; and I didn't see a single ship (likely because it was release day and all the server issues made it hard for others). After a bit I thought to myself "Let's jump into multiplayer and run a big ship. Maybe do some PvP" And I did, enjoyed every moment of those big battles at sea. Then I later read that the solo mode WAS in fact part of the open game, and when I played solo again I started seeing ships. No biggie I thought. Just gotta be careful. But I noticed my enjoyment of the game was not as strong. The concept of not being able to choose if I wanted to go for PvE or PvP, and the constant threat; while enjoyable at first; quickly grated on my enjoyment of the game.

Don't get me wrong, it sets up some fantastic moments and stories in the Open mode, but I think the problem in it's current state is choice. Let players CHOOSE to enter the game with the intent for either PvP or not; and you'll get a lot more people happy with the game.

-Cheers

@desolate-hollow great post.
I also see nothing wrong with pve servers, it's going to help this game in the long run because the way it is now, it will be dead in a month or 2.

Pvp isn't for everyone, and a choice wouldn't harm anyone.
There are lots of popular sandbox type games with pve and pvp.
Look at ark, it has a huge playerbase both in pvp and pve.

How many people have been turned off this game so far I wonder? I bet it's a lot and I can understand why, people don't want to deal with annoyances like getting attacked every 5 mins.
Some just want to play the actual game and despite the fact what most of these pvp people think, that isn't shooting and sinking every ship on sight.

I do love this game pvp or not, and I've put in countless hours since launch.
Will I play it long term? No.
Would I recommend it? No.

When the majority of players get bored and they will, all that will remain will be the toxic, griefing players that have nothing to do other than to chase people all day.

The community for this game is awful, the pvp players whine and moan more than anyone and just respond in one of a few ways to posts they don't like.

It's either go play something else, your need to get better, or your in the wrong game.
It's almost as if they are kids when you threaten to take toys away.

since launch I can count on 1 hand the amount of people I've met in game that are not vile.
So when the dregs are left you can only imagine the sorts of people they will be.

Want this game to last longer than a month rare? Start listening, pve players make up a good majority of the game, when they leave so will half of your playerbase, and word spreads, opinions stick, the game will lose any decent rep it has left.

@tbone-ap look, obviously your like butt hurt at other people's opinions as I've seen many of your posts which is the part I referred to kids and taking away toys and also the toxic players i speak of but open your mind for just 1 minute.

If you want a game to survive, it has to evolve, especially an online game.
If they don't this game will die, and that's a fact.

What difference would it make to you if they opened a pve server, you wouldn't have to play on it would you?
Does it scare you that actual pvp players may be a bit tough for you?

Probably does yes.

Makes no difference to me, I will play the game pvp or pve just like I have been doing so far.

So reply, rage, tear at my post whatever.
It's all cool.

@tbone-ap lol never said I was right it's just an opinion if you understand that word, I just said that I want the game to survive.

I play it as it is, if they don't add pve servers then I couldn't care less.

Although I don't really want to argue on a forum, it's a bit redundant and people like yourself cannot be reasoned with.

In the end it's rare's decision.
I guess we will just have to see if rare's "vision" is more important than success.

I’ve always played PVE games, I love just being able to d**k around and explore. However.....

The PVP aspect in this game gives me a real sense of loss and excitement. I’ve already gotten a bit bored just being a merchant, with no real threat in my sloop except for storms.

The pvp aspect presents a challenge to overcome. Like if I play solo there’s not really a challenge aside from Oos quests which I can’t really do solo effectively.

If you spend 5 hours of grinding only to get your stuff thieved. Get better???
:turn in more frequently
:start actively attacking ships
:lookout every 15 minutes so you’re not caught off guard

I guess a split in servers wouldn’t be the end of the world, I just like it how it is.

Also I’ve been sunk by galleons, sloops, and attacked on site but I just try to get better. Also it makes running into other friendly pirates that much sweeter.

@desolate-hollow "At the end of the day I see a need for different servers to fit the needs of the playerbase and potential players."

Samuel Roberts  /  Feb 13, 2018  /  Action

Rare reveals if the 8 things we want from Sea of Thieves will be there at launch

Wishful pirating.

• "We included this with one or two-person crews in mind, who want to run quests without encountering four-player ships parked at outposts ready to fire the cannons. Sharing the seas with other players is the game's core idea, however, as fraught as it may get. "Never," says Chapman."

Never gonna happen.

@shadeofdead said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@desolate-hollow I agree. I think PvE and PvPvE servers should be implemented. It's a shame I can't let my kids play this because of people shouting homophobic slurs and being toxic. You would see a lot less of that on a PvE server, because griefer/trolls/tryhards wouldn't have a reason to be there.

And it isn't going to split the community. Anyone who says it will evidently doesn't understand that a server has what? Maximum of 6 crews per server? Unless only 2 people want PvP you will have the same experience. (honestly if only 2 people want this it shouldn't be in there don't ya think?)

This is really it for me. I don't mind the PVP myself to an extent (though I still think there should be flagging or maybe some NPC generated consequences for aggressors or similar ideas, if not discrete servers) but my son played once or 2x with me and we were ganked and robbed and verbally harassed on an island once. Yes they got the jump on us but the fact remains that he just hasn't been back and has no desire to no matter how often I've asked because it was just a sour experience that left an impression - and this is a 9 year old kid who I've seen wreck a whole team with Genji or more than hold his own in Fortnite.

Sometimes you just don't want to be made to be fodder or have your time taken from you capriciously, no matter your age.

@sweltering-nick said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@desolate-hollow "At the end of the day I see a need for different servers to fit the needs of the playerbase and potential players."

Samuel Roberts  /  Feb 13, 2018  /  Action

Rare reveals if the 8 things we want from Sea of Thieves will be there at launch

Wishful pirating.

• "We included this with one or two-person crews in mind, who want to run quests without encountering four-player ships parked at outposts ready to fire the cannons. Sharing the seas with other players is the game's core idea, however, as fraught as it may get. "Never," says Chapman."

Never gonna happen.

^This

To anyone else that wants to make a case for PvE servers, quit the game. There are plenty of other games out there you can go only play against AI in. This game was made this way for a specific reason, there are no participation medals or safe spaces here. If you don't like dying to other players, get better. Don't like farming for hours and losing all your loot, turn in more often. No one is going to pamper you or hold your hand here, make some sort of effort to improve in the areas you can improve in and quit whining.

Hey,

I think it's perfectly find nowadays, the risk of being killed and stolen by an other player is what makes sot great, i would even say thats is the heart of the game. Pve peasants should find a boat simulator or something softer.

@amped0013 said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@sweltering-nick said in The PvP/PvE Conundrum:

@desolate-hollow "At the end of the day I see a need for different servers to fit the needs of the playerbase and potential players."

Samuel Roberts  /  Feb 13, 2018  /  Action

Rare reveals if the 8 things we want from Sea of Thieves will be there at launch

Wishful pirating.

• "We included this with one or two-person crews in mind, who want to run quests without encountering four-player ships parked at outposts ready to fire the cannons. Sharing the seas with other players is the game's core idea, however, as fraught as it may get. "Never," says Chapman."

Never gonna happen.

^This

To anyone else that wants to make a case for PvE servers, quit the game. There are plenty of other games out there you can go only play against AI in. This game was made this way for a specific reason, there are no participation medals or safe spaces here. If you don't like dying to other players, get better. Don't like farming for hours and losing all your loot, turn in more often. No one is going to pamper you or hold your hand here, make some sort of effort to improve in the areas you can improve in and quit whining.

This kind of sounds like tough talk I guess (?) and maybe that's the intent but it rings pretty hollow and transparently isn't. Speaking only for myself I don't mind PVP and enjoy it in bits but there are a lot of people liking and interested in playing this game, including kids, parents, and gamers of many ages and stripes. There probably can be room for everyone with a few design decisions or tweaks that don't seem far fetched.

Is it really so hard to understand that not everyone shares the young-or-adult-male-I've-never-really-had-to-answer-for-my-mouth-on-a-playground-or-real-competitive-setting-but-I'm-tough-online demo? I also don't get why people don't want to play with people with their same mentalities. If people that don't are playing some other way, or at least in way where they implicitly agree to play the same way (i.e. a flagging systems or whatever) I fail to see what the problem is.

The only people seen talking about "safe spaces" and other loaded terms on these boards are the people literally telling their fellow gamers to quit the game - usually with fair amount of hostility - and we are all supposed to believe that other people are the issue?

I don't see anything being taken away from PVP anytime soon, except maybe free targets. Anything that addresses these questions/comments would merely be additions to the game.