The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!

@lormiun
All I'm saying is, even for QoL the sails are situational and don't make a huge difference.

I do not need it.
I want it.
Why not have the best of both worlds :) ?

So Rare isn't 'forcing' you. You just want the sails so much that you won't use anything else. At this point, it sounds like your complaint is that you like the sails so much more than everything else, and that's the problem that needs fixed. But that's not what you're saying...

So if the DA sails aren't an advantage in PvP, and are situational and unneeded for regular sailing, then they aren't a "SERIOUS PROBLEM" and you aren't getting "BLATANTLY PUNISH[ED]" for not using them... you just are stuck in your own head. It comes down to the same thing: you are preventing yourself from using other sails when changing them would make almost no difference in your experience.

@lormiun said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:

@cotu42 True, but with the ripped sails it was INDEED negligable. I didn't put a fraction of the effort into my point back then.
I merely mentioned it for the sake of record.
HERE though it IS a serious issue.
It is not so simple. This situation ties in deep with the progress through customization, the Emporium,
the heart of Evil know as the "Unfair PvP Advantage" AND most importantly the Quality-of-Life situation.
All that combined is what makes this a serious issue.
Sadly I was not able to squeeze all that into a headline XD
Sry for that I guess :P

You claim it is at the heart of progress through cosmetics and yet you stated:

hard gameplay-advantage which the DA-Sails only provide in a minimal manner

Unfair in PvP, yet minimal gameplay impact? Trying again to make it bigger than it is...

The quality of life, is also relatively minor. You find it a nice benefit and it is... but it isn't that big of a deal. If you care that much, you can use the cosmetic, else you can curve up your sail a tiny fraction for the same effect when they are straight forward or like many people do... not really care and take the 3 steps worth of space to look. You act like it is the end of the world, but there have been a multitude of people stating they do just fine with old fashioned square sails... while having access to the v shaped ones.

Emporium is a very weak argument. As a player you should not worry about the financial choices of the company if they aren't worried about it. Do you truly believe that their analysis wouldn't have sold a v shape if it was a big deal? Actually it being bought with gold makes it less of an issue, as it isn't hidden behind a paywall.

It is a preference, if you want it use it. The same applies to other cosmetics and you have yet been able to provide a counter argument why would the worse sets be acceptable where as this is such a huge problem... because you cannot match them with others, the same applies to them as they have a negative impact on your quality of life. Same coin, different side... yet no outrage, a clear example of subjective bias.

@lormiun

For regular sailing calling them situational actually plays it down way to much.

No, because it is situational. More than that, there are many more situations where the sails can't make a different than there are where they might.

It DOES make it significantly more enjoyable.
And yes. I do once again claim that this is an undeniable fact unless you are on a Sloop.
Especially on a Brig because often enough your sails will be straightened out.
Also, ignoring the Galleon in this regard would not exactly feel right either.

Believe what you want to believe. In the end it's still you that's preventing you from equipping other cosmetics.

With this recent post all you did was saying "no u" to my previous mentioning of a denial-mindset.

I don't understand what you mean. I don't think I did that.

Even then would my proposed paths of action not still greatly benefit SoT?
Or would you disagree?

I know the intended question was for me to look at it in a vacuum, but I can't. Adding sail cuts to existing cosmetics would be a tremendous amount of effort, so Rare won't do that and I wouldn't want them to anyway.

For adding more V cuts in the game, I would object on the grounds of attacking one of the few things that makes the DA ship unique. And while I would be okay with adding more into the game, that would be more or less acknowledging that the cuts are a problem, which they aren't. So the perfect solution in my opinion would be to continue to release new sails with cuts, just not the same cut as the DA sails. Make each cut unique and fitting to the theme of the sail in question. A sea-themed cut with a wave patterned cut, for example.

@pithyrumble said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:

In combat gunners should be calling out which side they want their shots on.

no, you take your shots from the side i provide you with, swabbie!

@lormiun said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:

@burnbacon The curl is a bothersome task that you constantly have to make sure your average crew keeps in mind.
It is barely an excuse. How can you defend this XD

Not really. The crew I roll with (which isn't always the same people every time, but is usually from the same group) always knows to give a slight curl to the sails on the galleon and the brigantine. It's a small task, and it barely takes any time. I'm speaking as both a helmsman and just a general crewmate.

We rarely, if ever, go full sail during combat (because there's no point), so really what's the advantage besides MAYBE shaving off a couple seconds? You can still get full speed (if not like 98% of full speed) with a curl.

@lormiun "To be honest, most of those that argue against these sails here seem to try to keep up a mindset of denial." Peeps tend todo that around here. It makes things very awkward.

@lormiun

"Acknowledging that the cuts are a problem" Hm indeed ... that would mean that you are wrong hm?

No... I said that if Rare were to create some sails with the exact same cut as the DA sails, it would be perceived as them acknowledging that the cuts are a problem. But they're not a problem, so releasing the exact cut would be giving cadence to the wrong viewpoint.

But please ... it would not be as much work to simply take the frame of an already existing sail and apply a different already existing pixel-coloring scheme to it.

What do you mean? Applying a cut to an already made sail isn't an easy process. Look at the Ashen Dragon sails. The glowing bit would need to be moved up for every cut. And unless rips/cuts are made by using clear parts of textures, new models and textures would need to be made for every sail on every cut.
In any case, a lot of work would need done to change cuts.

@galactic-geek

Would you be opposed to Rare releasing other sails that also have the V cut? Even if it's only a couple more, I feel like it would really add variety to the cosmetics so not everyone who wants that experience has to use the DA sails.

@lormiun said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:

@cotu42 Subjective bias?
Well perhaps from the point of view from someone who rarely takes Helm on a Brig or even Galleon ...

Now you are assuming how I play and what I do on a ship. I have played each role on a ship and sail on all 3 sizes, that is also why I can tell you there are more cosmetics that create a similar impact when compared to the best.

Are you sure it is not merely you among with some others here trying to justify why you do in fact NOT want to use these sails?

Not want to use the sails? I do use the sail they are part of one of my black mix set, I am just not limited to just that sail set. Once again you are now making up aspects, the difference is that I use a variety of sails and sets based on the cosmetics or color I want to play with.

And when it comes to the argument about the sacred "curl" ... I think I have mentioned this often enough at this point ...

I never curl my sail, but it is an option. Experienced helmsman don't need it, but it provides the vision you want.

It reversingly undermines all aspects of the Quality-of-Life at the core of what motivated me to start this post.

It doesn't undermine it any less than the horrible cannon sights, the cannon flares, the flintlock sights that diminish your view. It doesn't undermine it any more than you wearing glowing cosmetics and standing out as a light bulb when trying to board.

Yet all of that aside ...
Indeed ... the core separation here is obviously the OVERALL value assessment of these sails.
At the end of the day I say they offer too much to be ignored. You, at the end of the day say they don't.

If you like them that much you can use them, you can have the added convenience. Yet you act like you have no choice or say in the matter. The normal sails work perfectly fine, the ripped ones are also a bit more convenient.

At this point I find it unlikely for us to find common ground on this issue.
Yet since this is my post I would of course betray my values if I wouldn't at least try.

The counter argument you want, I have already provided multiple times:
There is only ONE V-Shaped sail.
If there were MORE (like with ... literally anything else)
this entire post would not exist.

There are no others of some of the most unique cosmetics such as the skeletal cannons, which provide a negative impact. The ripped sails used to have 2 options and were extremely limited.

Both of my suggestions effectively boil down to the introduction of more such sails :(
Am I really in the wrong for wanting that?
It would benefit SoT so much ...

Simply asking for more V shaped sails is fine, it is the perception that you try to create. The fact that there are not blatantly punishing and a serious problem. You can act like you are simply asking for more v shaped sails, but you are painting it with a doomsday paintbrush and that is the issue. This picture that nothing else is viable, good enough and all that is bogus.

People like you hype up these sails and act like they are the must use sails. Hell I even bought them to see it for myself and used them quite intensely for a decent time. Yet the conclusion was, yeah they are nice, but I also like other sails and those work just as fine. I cannot say the same for some cannons, flintlock... which I literally never use because of their blatant disadvantage compared to others.

Somebody stuck their paws in that glue barrel again. I'm going to tell you a sailing technique that I learned a long time ago, but is very useful for new players and old players alike. The best part about it is that it's free as the sand on our beaches! Now, the first step on our voyage is to let go of the wheel. (It's the same button you used to grab it.) Then, take about one to one and a half paces to the right. (On pc, that's D, on Xbox, you just have to move the left joystick to the right.) Then go as many paces forward as you please to get the desired effect. I recommend about four or five depending on your vessel, that will usually sit you at the bottom of the stairs. (W on pc, forward on the left joystick for Xbox.) You now have visual access to the entire horizon if you move the mouse, or use the right joystick if you're on Xbox. If you cannot see the entire horizon, the hull of the ship may be in the way; Use the jump button (The spacebar on pc, A button on Xbox) to elevate yourself to see over what railing or rope may be obstructing your view. This simple solution allows you to see just as much, nay, more of the space ahead of you than the Dark Adventurer sails with any sail you please, Athena's Fortune themed or Sailor themed. I hope this has helped anyone distraught that their feet suddenly get unreasonably heavy with the gold or mental burdens they're carrying upon purchasing the Dark Adventurer's sails, because I know it's helped many of my sailing allies, enemies, and acquaintances who were disadvantaged enough to have used one of the ~200 other sail livery options in the game and didn't feel a need to complain at any point.
If this felt like a lot of words to say one thing, yeah. It was. ;)

Summary:
You can wash whatever glue's holding you to the wheel off in the water barrel, then you'll no longer be disadvantaged by using other sails.
Yes, I have used and could afford two sets of the DA sails. No, it doesn't give you an advantage any more than the Ancient Spyglass from TT4.
Go fishing on a seapost in the Shores Of Plenty. It soothes the nerves, and is one of the few places where you are not highly disadvantaged for glowing.

I’m perfectly capable of being a helmsman with any flat or torn sails.

So I’m sorry to say, your DA sails argument doesn’t wash with me.

I sailed back before even torn ones existed.

Quick Fix:
Once you unlock a sail cut-out style, you’re able to apply it to any sail you own. Similar to applying cannon flare.

@mintharp184509 said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:

DA sails should be lengthened and perhaps even the cut could be altered to make them less advantageous.

Then you will see all the people on here currently telling you DA sails offer no real advantages protest the changes which would be hilarious.

I would protest simply from the standpoint that I bought a particular sail that stands out for 8.2 million gold. If they want to change it at this point, it should come with a refund and you can re-purchase it if you like the new design.

@vinsanity324 said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:

Quick Fix:
Once you unlock a sail cut-out style, you’re able to apply it to any sail you own. Similar to applying cannon flare.

This doesn't really keep the uniqueness of the sail profile given the high price tag. Hence my suggestion that they could make the cut available to apply to other sails but each time it should cost the same 8.2 million gold. This keeps it unique still AND provides more gold sinks which the game desperately needs to combat gold/loot inflation that has occurred over the last two years.

This entire thread could have simply been renamed, "Rare, can we get more sails with better visibility for the helm please."

@lormiun said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:

How can you say that ...
You are far from the first. This Gal @PithyRumble did it at the beginning of the Post and sure as hell gathered a lot of support even though she clearly didn't even fully read my Post and speaks obviously purely from the heart instead of the brain.

I gleam amusement from your emphasis on her "not even reading your post" when the entirety of your post going forward is regarding.. One sentence at the end of my post:

The cutout of the Ancient Spyglass is bigger yes, just like the Sea-Dog pistol is that tiny bit better for aiming ... etc. etc.
BUT HOW can you delude yourself into thinking that the DA-Sails fall into the same category of these TINY advantages.

This being just an example displaying that I can see how there is appeal without aligning with the opinion that the sails were absolutely game-changing myself. That is merely our experience using them. We've never been blown away by the "overpowered visibility." If we don't notice a difference, we don't notice a difference. If they help you sail easier, that's good for you, but as we see it, in anything but absolutely perfect conditions, they are the same as any other sails. Additionally, were you to have read my post, you'd see that I have outlined a technique we sailors used a long time ago to remedy this "severe disadvantage." I can explain it further, should you not understand from your first thorough study of my post. If you even took the time to comprehend the first line of the summary, perhaps you would have gleamed a crucial step in this technique.

I've given blatant proof of how significant the O-V-E-R-A-L-L increase of quality in various aspects of SoT is when you use the DA-Sails.
SOMETHING needs to be done about this. Many solutions were proposed here.
With NONE (Except for the Removal of the V-Cut) did I, for my part, disagree.

Can you please link me that blatant advice in a concise response? I'd like to go over it please. Honestly, your evidence has been a bit all over the place, and nobody enjoys skimming through paragraphs upon paragraphs [ ;) ] just to find one or two links, so if your response could be short and contain at least 50% tangible evidence that's more than "well, uhh, just look at it!!" than I will genuinely go over it! Don't make me read too much to find it though.

It literally says it on the freaking Wiki XD
"advantage for players at the helm".

Dark Adventurers Sails | The Sea of Thieves Wiki

The Dark Adventurers Sails is a Sails cosmetic variant from the Dark Adventurers Set. The Dark Adventurers Sails can be obtained by the following methods: Purchased from the Athena's Fortune...

As much as I'd like to vouch for the validity of the "notes" section of a fan-run wiki, I cannot. I'd elaborate further, however I respect the very small team that upholds the domain, so out of respect for them, I'll just say that there's a reason I only visit the site to check the prices of habiliment's I've purchased.

So:
You don't like the way the DA-Sails look so you don't want to use them.
But because deep down you KNOW they offer an actually unignorable advantage
you now have to SOMEHOW justify yourself before yourself for not using them.

I never said I disliked the sails. In fact, I quite like the sails and their silver embellishments and the black with the mute red diamond, they are quite pleasing to the eye. That is not what I was arguing. What I was arguing, if you'd like to recall, was whether or not the advantage was.. "unignorable."

This is a mindset of denial -.-
Like the constant argument of the sacred curl being made here.

Of course, if you were to agree to my stance it would be effectively admitting that there is a problem.
Therefore this mindset would break and therefore cause pain.
A LOT of problems in RL suffer from this effect ...

I wouldn't feel proud that you felt the need to legitimately, if not directly, conflate someone online disagreeing on a matter of proficiency whilst using a cosmetic item to the stages of grief following a loved one's passing in a passive aggressive manner. Just like the statement, this comment is entirely unrelated to Sea Of Thieves, I just felt the need to draw attention to it.. As you did.

But back to SoT:

IT IS NOT A SHAME TO LIKE THE ADVANTAGE OF THE V-CUT :D

Hence what I said regarding the spyglass. It's not a shame to latch onto something that gives you slightly more visibility, but to claim that there is no other viable option, that the slight gap meddles with the very balancing of the game, and that it's so good that the devs need to add a version of your favorite sails to use but with the exact same distinctive shape, and to say that we're all sick in the head or disagreeing with you that it's more difficult to live without these sails, that's where shame lies. Actually, when I phrase it like this, it almost sounds like you're the one that's fallen ill, doesn't it?
If you need help sailing without your precious Dark Adventurer sails, I have provided a comprehensive guide of how to see as much as you see with the DA sails, while using any other sail, should you wish to actually read it before responding. ;)

@lormiun I did go out of my way to specify I wanted proof that wasn't just "well, uhh, just look at it!!" Which your video concretely falls under, unless you can provide a quote to the contrary.

@galactic-geek said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:

@vakrisone said in The Dark Adventurer Sails are a SERIOUS PROBLEM because at helm they BLATANTLY PUNISH you for using anything else!:

This entire thread could have simply been renamed, "Rare, can we get more sails with better visibility for the helm please."

Most of the sails on the ships are meant to purposefully obscure some vision - it promotes teamwork and communication. I pity those who who use the DA sails, because they miss out on that opportunity to a certain degree.

I'm of the opinion that the trim on the DA sails should be lowered.

In my opinion the more choices players get the better. If someone doesn't like the DA sails then they can choose not to use them. Likewise if someone wants better visibility then they have that choice thanks to the DA sails.

The DA sails didn't introduce a problem. They simply introduced a solution to a QoL inconvenience. To lament their existence in the game is like lamenting the existence of options to remove camera shake or the blur effects from ghost loot.