Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed

  • Paradoxcandy
    Seafarer
    Insider

    A disclaimer; I'm an experienced player, I know how to handle losing everything in this game, and do not need anyone telling me I need to "get good". I originally sent this as feedback to the SoT-support, and they asked me to post it here. So here goes..

    I definitely see the appeal of leaving this Tall Tale bug in, and I absolutely think a version of this feature should be in the game. As it is now however, it does not work. Having a lvl 5 reaper server-hop to your server is not fair to the emissary ships who have been playing on the server. When that ship spawns in without any warning, that's a huge advantage to the reaper, and disadvantage for the other emissaries. I've been playing for a few hours today, as a reaper, and to my crew it wasn't really an issue beyond the fact that there was suddenly a lvl 5 reaper right behind us. The fact that they've also brought with them a lot of supplies, and no loot obviously, leaves us at a disadvantage. They have nothing to lose, and we have everything. Now this is bad enough - but when another Reaper server-hops to the same server, it gets exceptionally worse. When a fully leveled Reaper who can see every active emissary comes into the server and starts sinking emissaries who weren't aware of them spawning in, that's not a good thing. This isn't sustainable gameplay, it's not fair to the player-base as a whole, and to me it looks a lot like an exploit.
    My crew is experienced, and we've learned how to lose in this game. This time we sold most of our stuff, and made sure they didn't sell any of ours. I just don't appreciate being ambushed by a fully leveled Reaper when we've already fended of several other server-hoppers and finally just wanted to end the session. Not generally the feeling you want to feel at the end of a gaming session.

    I'm also thinking of new or inexperienced players. This game is complicated and confusing, and I honestly don't think features like this makes it easier for them. I want new players to stay! My crew avoid sinking them, we help them, and we only sink them if they attack first.

    The emissary system is supposed to be risk and reward, but on equal ground - so when the reapers are given such a huge advantage over other emissaries that's just incredibly unbalanced. It needs to be changed, it needs to be nerfed. Why would I take the risk of putting on an Athena emissary, go to a Fort of Fortune, only for a level 5 Reaper to server hop in? We always pay attention to leveling reapers, but with the server hopping that doesn't cut it anymore. I want to be aware of the risk before I do that - and the server hopping removes that certainty. How does this encourage players to use the emissary system? Because to me, it doesn't seem like it does.

    TLDR: It's very unbalanced that my crew had to run away from two separate server hopping Reaper galleons just to sell, after having sank 2 other ones in the very same session, when we're careful and experienced at the game. It needs to change.

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  • WolfManbush
    Legend

    really this comes more down to reaper vs reaper more than anything else but the problem isn't exclusive to hopping reapers it's related to people that have easy access to too many supplies and often close respawns if they sink that's why reapers although is pretty much perfect in design has become less and less appealing

    we are getting to the point now where people are so spoiled they literally just go park at reapers and wait. Gone are the days of sneak and strategy now it's just a bunch of lazy pvpers with pvp skills sitting and waiting because they have been enabled by things added to the game

    portal hopping in general I haven't been convinced it's more cons than pros when all added up

    but I find the wild amount of supplies specifically chain shots to be a serious issue as well as close respawns

    buying supplies shoulda never been a thing

    if they lose they get 2 or 3 chances to come back to reapers in a short amount of time makes the faction less and less appealing even though it's awesomely designed

    imo combat scenarios are becoming less and less appealing as balance leads more and more away from producing and more and more into 10 minute loot steal highlight clips with people contributing less and less

    when everyone was tucking all the time it wasn't that great either but this is worse imo

    more and more running and more and more loot dumping is on the way as people get more and more sick of it

    at the very least portal hopping adds a loot item to the mix

    they already did it right once with wraithballs. they took something powerful and made it limited and tied to activity and production. good rng day is 5 and sometimes it's just two and there is loot now circulating around from people getting them. Perfect.

  • ScurvyWoof
    Captain

    Honestly, this isn’t really a problem. Yes, they get an advantage with seeing where emissaries are and having lots of supplies and almost nothing to lose, but they are marked on the map. If you got ‘ambushed’ by a grade five reaper, that’s on you. You can see them on the map the very moment they load in - yes, I have tested this.
    Also, this isn’t server hopping. This is portal hopping which, I’m fairly certain, Rare has called a ‘feature’, even if it wasn’t the portals’ intended purpose. Obviously, you have knowledge about the game, and skill to outrun and sink multiple ships. However, with new players, you are right. Sea of Thieves is a fairly complicated game now, compared to when I started playing, which was around The Seabound Soul, if I am remembering correctly. There is a mega thread somewhere on this topic, so maybe go try that out.
    Good luck!
    P.s. A Reaper’s grade five advantage is pretty much the counter to their disadvantage, which is marking them on the map. Check your map often, they are not hard to miss. They don’t really gain an advantage and if you have been in that session long enough, you probably have enough supplies to last a while. They see you, you see them. It’s a trade off, really.

  • BurnBacon
    Champion
    Insider

    You do know….you can reach grade 5 on reapers. Super quick without much sea travel right?
    Not all of them server hop.

  • PersonalC0ffee
    Captain
    Insider
    Boatswain

    I'll tell you why it needs changed. Laaaaag

    Had a ship merge on with 1100 and over 300 of just about everything and it super lagged the server. Started getting really bad ping issues and their crew was teleporting around. Huge ping spiking when near that boat.

    Too many things = laaag

  • SweetSandMan
    Lord
    Insider

    There are 2 "problems" with portal hopping.

    1. If you are smart about it like, for example, Captain Falcore, you save the last chapter checkpoint of PLTT3...you kill a skeleton ship, get a storage crate, find one at an island, or just buy one because you're rolling in gold...then you can stop at that beautiful town in the tall tale and amass enough supplies in under 10 minutes for several hour sessions. I scienced this the other day and was able to gather over 80 each of firebombs and blunderbombs in under 10 minutes because of how fast the barrels in the TT refresh...not to mention the 20+ pineapples, 40+ mangos, etc...oh and not to mention the cannonballs and chainshots that are available by the cannons up top. Stocking up using the TTs is absolutely OP and needs a nerf. Solution: your ship when you come out of the TT is just as it would be when you spawn in fresh to a server with the standard supplies. You can keep what's in your pockets, but that's it.

    2. Emissary flags. Whether it's Reaper or otherwise, it makes no sense that a crew gets a fresh server to PvE or PvP out of their minds, and they didn't have to take any risk by doing activities to get to grade 5. Emissary is all about risk/reward and this mechanic literally eliminates the risk of getting from grade 1 to grade 5. To everyone that says "iT's ReAlLy EaSy To GeT tO gRaDe 5"...ok...well...do it then...do it again on the fresh server. There's a reason you're portal hopping at Grade 5... because you don't want to have to do it again regardless of how easy it is.

  • CptnPotBeard
    Legend
    Insider

    @sweetsandman No the reason I portal hop as reaper g5 is because most players are cowards and barely run emissaries period. Which means that when I hit g5 there is no one worth sinking. Which means all the time I spent to get the benefits of g5 is worthless. Remember reapers don't get a g5 voyage. All they get is an ability to hunt and if there is no one to hunt they get nothing. Which is why portals are nice because then all my time I spent to stock up to fight is no longer wasted because people are cowards and usually drop their flag the moment a reaper is on server. Plus not like you can't use them to run from reapers. You also have access to the same ability to use the tall tale portals to stock up as well. It's not reaper exclusive.

  • KommodoreYenser
    Lord
    Insider

    @sweetsandman you may have something on point 1 but your point 2 argument completely falls apart on the premise that a reaper 5 showing up on a server has gotten to said point with zero risk. They were visible on the map the entire time they went 1-5.

    The people avoiding the risk of emissary system are those that wrap up and lower their flag when they see a reaper 1 begging their climb to 5 on a server. Those are the types you have to thank for what has evolved.

  • SweetSandMan
    Lord
    Insider

    @cptnpotbeard Oh no sometimes you don't get the server you want. Same can be said to the PvE'ers. Tough. Find a new server if to don't like it and start over same as the other emissaries.

    Also, you can still hunt after you hit grade 5...it's just not as easy to find your prey. Tough.

  • Lem0n Curry
    Champion
    Insider

    @kommodoreyenser said in Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed:

    @sweetsandman you may have something on point 1 but your point 2 argument completely falls apart on the premise that a reaper 5 showing up on a server has gotten to said point with zero risk. They were visible on the map the entire time they went 1-5.

    The people avoiding the risk of emissary system are those that wrap up and lower their flag when they see a reaper 1 begging their climb to 5 on a server. Those are the types you have to thank for what has evolved.

    Well, if the emissaries seem to run in droves from even a R1, then there is not much risk raising that level to 5.

  • KommodoreYenser
    Lord
    Insider

    @lem0n-curry said in Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed:

    @kommodoreyenser said in Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed:

    @sweetsandman you may have something on point 1 but your point 2 argument completely falls apart on the premise that a reaper 5 showing up on a server has gotten to said point with zero risk. They were visible on the map the entire time they went 1-5.

    The people avoiding the risk of emissary system are those that wrap up and lower their flag when they see a reaper 1 begging their climb to 5 on a server. Those are the types you have to thank for what has evolved.

    Well, if the emissaries seem to run in droves from even a R1, then there is not much risk raising that level to 5.

    That is based on your enemy’s choice, the defining trait of SoT.

    Have had plenty of turbo sweat brig and galley crews hop into my server as a solo reaper 4-5 and try to run me down with no flag of their own up even. This of course was far more common before season 3.

  • SweetSandMan
    Lord
    Insider

    @kommodoreyenser said in Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed:

    @sweetsandman you may have something on point 1 but your point 2 argument completely falls apart on the premise that a reaper 5 showing up on a server has gotten to said point with zero risk. They were visible on the map the entire time they went 1-5.

    False. They were on the map, yes...but the map of a completely different server...so they have a completely different set of risks from server A to server B... I'm guessing there's plenty of Reaper 5s that hop and see another Reaper 5 on the new server immediately throw that TT back down and go find another one with theoretically easier prey.

    Also, there's a reason that I can't hit chapter 2 of an Athena Voyage and then go...ya know what, I don't like this server, I'm going to dig my Athena up on a different server.

  • PithyRumble
    Sailor
    Insider

    But now you can dig it up, go stash it in a mermaid, portal hop and sell it on a different server lol.

  • CptnPotBeard
    Legend
    Insider

    @sweetsandman That's literally why you portal hop. To get a new server. Why should I lose my supplies lol. Your logic is trash. Literally you can server hop with portals same as me if you don't want to deal with reapers. It's people like you that just complain that everyone targets you instead of using the tools you have like checking the map or merging to a new server. Reapers are not the problem and never have been. Especially given all the nerfs to the company the only way for people who actually need to level the faction is flags and with cowards like you running rampant its hard to find flags to steal. So yeah hop through or portal looking for flags same way as you can constantly scan the map to check for reapers. It's completely balanced. Just learn to get good and check your map more and you won't get snuck up on.

  • CptnPotBeard
    Legend
    Insider

    @sweetsandman said in Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed:

    @cptnpotbeard Oh no sometimes you don't get the server you want. Same can be said to the PvE'ers. Tough. Find a new server if to don't like it and start over same as the other emissaries.

    Also, you can still hunt after you hit grade 5...it's just not as easy to find your prey. Tough.

    Not when I've already sunk ever ship on server lol. And yeah sure I can hunt non emissaries but why would I bother going after a ship with no flag when a flag is where all the real value is. Lol

  • GreatFailure82
    Marauder

    @cptnpotbeard said in Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed:

    @sweetsandman No the reason I portal hop as reaper g5 is because most players are cowards and barely run emissaries period. Which means that when I hit g5 there is no one worth sinking. Which means all the time I spent to get the benefits of g5 is worthless. Remember reapers don't get a g5 voyage. All they get is an ability to hunt and if there is no one to hunt they get nothing. Which is why portals are nice because then all my time I spent to stock up to fight is no longer wasted because people are cowards and usually drop their flag the moment a reaper is on server. Plus not like you can't use them to run from reapers. You also have access to the same ability to use the tall tale portals to stock up as well. It's not reaper exclusive.

    chicken and the egg. are people not running emissarys baceause they are cowards or are they not running emissarys because of portal hopping reapers. i've noticed less people running emissarys myself and heard a few twitch streamers talking about a popular opinion running around in videos on stream right now as they are telling people its best not to run emissary. server hopping reapers might not be the only reason for this but i would suggest its probably a big reason

  • GreatFailure82
    Marauder

    @cptnpotbeard said in Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed:

    @sweetsandman That's literally why you portal hop. To get a new server. Why should I lose my supplies lol. Your logic is trash. Literally you can server hop with portals same as me if you don't want to deal with reapers. It's people like you that just complain that everyone targets you instead of using the tools you have like checking the map or merging to a new server. Reapers are not the problem and never have been. Especially given all the nerfs to the company the only way for people who actually need to level the faction is flags and with cowards like you running rampant its hard to find flags to steal. So yeah hop through or portal looking for flags same way as you can constantly scan the map to check for reapers. It's completely balanced. Just learn to get good and check your map more and you won't get snuck up on.

    you can disagree with the guys opinion, but even i dont think you can argue with his logic. even if you dont server hop as a reaper with the tale tale checkpoint your hopping with a massive advantage of having a stupid amount of supplies compared to (almost certainly) everyone else.

  • CptnPotBeard
    Legend
    Insider

    @greatfailure82 said in Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed:

    @cptnpotbeard said in Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed:

    @sweetsandman That's literally why you portal hop. To get a new server. Why should I lose my supplies lol. Your logic is trash. Literally you can server hop with portals same as me if you don't want to deal with reapers. It's people like you that just complain that everyone targets you instead of using the tools you have like checking the map or merging to a new server. Reapers are not the problem and never have been. Especially given all the nerfs to the company the only way for people who actually need to level the faction is flags and with cowards like you running rampant its hard to find flags to steal. So yeah hop through or portal looking for flags same way as you can constantly scan the map to check for reapers. It's completely balanced. Just learn to get good and check your map more and you won't get snuck up on.

    you can disagree with the guys opinion, but even i dont think you can argue with his logic. even if you dont server hop as a reaper with the tale tale checkpoint your hopping with a massive advantage of having a stupid amount of supplies compared to (almost certainly) everyone else.

    That's my counter point to his logic of the tall tale supplying being unfair. Literally anyone can do it. Not just reapers. So if you want a better chance against reapers go start your session getting those same supplies. I also personally have never bothered using the tales to gather supplies. Being able to buy crates at the outpost and a storage crate to ransack the island are usually more than enough to get the job done to start. The problem is people don't want to fight. I solo sloop a ton and I never run from a fight even if I'm a g5 emissary stacked with Athena loot. I will always fight. The problem is most players who rarely pvp have a mentality that they will always lose so they run. If they actually started turning to fight more often, they would be surprised by how often they can either outright win. Or inflict enough damage to convince e their pursuer to back off. If more people actively fought and stopped worrying about the measly gold they will lose they will eventually lose a lot less often by improving their ability to defend their treasure. Most people though have the mentality of if I can't have it no one can so they run to the red or do whatever they can to avoid pvp instead of just trying to fight and see if they win. Every fight is a 50/50 your crew can make mistakes and so can the enemy. And if you're worried about server hopping reapers with tons of supplies then stock up your own ship better to defend yourself. The current system has nothing wrong with it. Just more people need to hang the mentality of this being a pve grind game with no risks. As soon as you run an emissary you are at risk of being sunk. Why should you get a gold multiplier with no added risk. If you don't want to be hunted by server hopping reapers don't run an emissary simple as that.

  • SweetSandMan
    Lord
    Insider

    @cptnpotbeard said in Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed:

    Not when I've already sunk ever ship on server lol. And yeah sure I can hunt non emissaries but why would I bother going after a ship with no flag when a flag is where all the real value is. Lol

    1. If you've sunk every emissary on the server, you've effectively completed your "emissary quest". Time for a new server and a fresh emissary flag.

    2. I'd say you're more likely to find a loot stack on a ship not running an emissary than the Grade 1 Gold Hoarder with a Marauders Chest onboard that you chased and sunk. I know I regularly solo sloop and stack loot and events with no emissary up.

    3. Don't misinterpret my belief that the risk/reward balance is broken for me being a player avoiding PvP. I love PvP in this game. It's the best part of the game IMO. But I still believe portal hopping and keeping emissary flags and supplies is a broken mechanic that causes an imbalance in the risk/reward system.

    And to counter your argument, I've experienced and seen live on stream, Reaper 5s attacking, realizing they're in a battle they won't win, and then hopping through the portal to avoid that fight. Why should they be allowed to go find the easier prey? You don't like your effective emissary quest as a Reaper? Tough. You should have to start a fresh emissary flag on a new server just like everyone else.

    Maybe it's not the PvE players that are the problem. Maybe it's the hyper aggressive PvP players that believe they should be spoon fed prey whenever they want. No...no certainly that can't be the problem.

  • GreatFailure82
    Marauder

    @cptnpotbeard so you have to loot up everytime you join a game, and everytime you get sunk. thrilling gameplay right there. there is a reason chainshots aren't as common as cannballs

  • FPG ONslaught
    Marauder
    Insider

    @sweetsandman False. If I Portal hop as a level 5 reaper and see another level 5 reaper he is the first boat I go for. Not An emissary. They are the highest risk vs reward boats to sink. If you don't think its risky being a Reaper you obviously haven't played much as a reaper. The risk is the same no matter what server? Are you salty that we get to bring materials through the portal? Give me 3 bananas 1 chain shot and a sip of grog and ill give you something to post about LUL

  • SweetSandMan
    Lord
    Insider

    @fpg-onslaught I have no doubt you're incredible at PvP. Probably never sink. And while it sounds like you drool at the thought of great competition in SoT, that's not the case of every Grade 5 Reaper. Far from it, in fact. There's a reason Reaper Runners are a meme at this point.

    I'm not salty at all. I'm just pointing out what I believe to be an exploit. One that I have used myself. Especially the supply gathering at the last checkpoint in PLTT3. You'll never find more pineapples and mangos on the seas than you do in there.

    A Gold Hoarder can't hop from server to server claiming emissary quests every step of the way...they can't even continue their emissary quest on another server. Why should a Reaper be able to hop repeatedly and keep using their effective version of an emissary quest?

  • MostExpendable
    Lord
    Insider

    Grade 5 Reaper flags are valuable.

  • ScurvyWoof
    Captain

    This thread is probably going to be locked. Maybe you guys should go to the mega thread? Just a thought.
    Portal hopping doesn’t really bother me and I find it very uncommon for people to do it on Oceanic servers.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    I have been ambushed by level 5 Reaper crews on no less than 3 separate occasions since this whole thing started, not because I wasn't paying attention, but simply because I happened to be either starting my session or turning in my loot at the Outpost they spawned in next to.

    It's stupid, IMO. I think they should just deny passage to any crew with an emmisary flag.

  • KommodoreYenser
    Lord
    Insider

    @galactic-geek said in Server Hopping and why it needs to be changed:

    I have been ambushed by level 5 Reaper crews on no less than 3 separate occasions since this whole thing started, not because I wasn't paying attention, but simply because I happened to be either starting my session or turning in my loot at the Outpost they spawned in next to.

    It's stupid, IMO. I think they should just deny passage to any crew with an emmisary flag.

    Seems more like a merge bug akin to the old auto merge when a ship would get dropped in right next to/on top of another. I think the intention is they only get spawned in at an empty outpost's portal.

  • PhantomFerguson
    Sailor

    My wife and I just had a level 5 Reaper server hop to us. We payed attention to the map the whole time noting where the other ships were and if any reapers came in. We turned in often still. We got killed by a Brigantine Level 5 Reaper that appeared literally out of thin air. This needs to not be possible. If we had known any Reaper had been on the map prior to going on the island one of us would of stayed watch.

    This feature ruins the game. Forcing all ships to spawn on a map with no emissary values means we would of had clear time to recognize a reaper was in play and adjust accordingly. This incident really makes us want to stop playing the game.

    I understand all the PVP people will complain that its tough without server hopping but it should be. Nobody should be able to join a server and instantly know where all ships are. Your also actively ruining other peoples fun which should be harder to do. PVE boats have to work for their gold, why don't Reapers.

  • Look Behind You
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Moderator
    Founder
    Deckhand

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