An Option for Everyone

  • KittyTimeLord
    Castaway

    Sea of Thieves and Rare creators,

    I was given the opportunity to play SoT with game pass and I was very excited. I have heard great things about SoT and I do love an adventure. However, like many massive multiplayer online games, there are player issues. From research after playing, I have found out that the community has been divided between those who want to keep SoT as is and those who want a single-player/local co-op option.

    I do understand why people want to keep it as an MMO only and how making a single-player storyline or a local co-op would defeat the entire purpose of why the game was created, however, I do not think that the purpose of SoT is to crush and totally annihilate new players. Thanks to the other players on the server, I am rather disappointed in the game and definitely will not spend money on it. I was trying out this game with an older friend of mine who enjoys videogames very much but adapts slower to videogame mechanics than other people online. This game is rated for teens, so I figured that we would have some time to figure out how to steer ships and shoot skeletons. Low and behold, spawn killers got the better of us. I understand the point of the game is to find buried treasure and fight other people out at sea. Except, those who attacked our ship stayed on our ship after they had taken all of our belongings and continued to kill us after we respawned. It was obvious we were new players. Our characters were still in their underwear, our sail was tattered, we hardly had anything to take to begin with, and our ship had plenty of holes in it already from crashing into land from our attempts to learn how to control our ship. Yet, these other players stayed and continued to kill us right after we came back from the Ship of the Damned. They finally left us alone thanks to another ship that started to attack our half-sunken, half-aflame ship. To kill other players JUST to kill other players is not a good sport and we were killed so fast by these other two who had advanced weapons, magic spells, and fancier clothing that there was no way to get their gamer tag. The only time I was able to get a good look at them was from a distance where their gamer tags were too small to read.

    I understand that this is not the game developer's fault. This is a common problem with PvP MMO's in general (World of Warcraft has MANY but because of how they have starter towns and lower-level areas, players can enhance their skills without threat of more advanced players) and it is nearly impossible to catch every single group that chooses to witch hunt and spawn kill. By not having a local co-op option or a storyline option (or having the fallen players spawn in a safe zone to collect themselves), new players will be incapacitated by those online who choose to witch hunt/spawn kill and not likely to play the game again. This is a pirate game, not Call of Duty. The point of the game not to just kill people. But even FPS's, like Call of Duty, has a single-player/local co-op option for those who are not skilled and want to gain those skills.

    This was, unfortunately, a disappointment and I hope there will be at least an open discussion about adding an option for those who either want to play alone (and offline) or with those that they choose (and offline) while still having the main option an MMO server. I disagree that adding those kinds of options will take away the reason why this game was created. I think that it would open it up to a larger variety of people. Those who want an MMO, they can have their MMO. Those who want to just play with their friends, can just play with their friends. And of course, those who just want to sail the open ocean, battling NPC's, learning lore, and finding the booty of famous pirates all by themselves, can do just that.

    We dearly enjoyed our time learning to sail and navigating the seas. We enjoyed reading what the NPC's had to say and the story that seemed to be coming out of what items we found. Even after we were killed the first time by our attackers, we were enjoying it. It is a game after all. But that faded fast as we became utterly helpless.

    Maybe another pirate game similar to SoT but with just a single-player or local co-op could be an option for Rare. Keeping it as an MMO only game will keep these problems going. It is just the way some people think is okay to play.

    Thank You for creating a wonderful concept.

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  • BlazeDrake100
    Marauder

    @kittytimelord
    Rare does plan to make private servers with no progression in them. It's OK if you don't like the game, but the mix of pvp and pve in an open world is what makes it special.

  • Nabberwar
    Lord
    Insider

    I do not think that the purpose of SoT is to crush and totally annihilate new players.

    To kill other players JUST to kill other players is not a good sport and we were killed so fast by these other two who had advanced weapons, magic spells, and fancier clothing that there was no way to get their gamer tag.

    We even talking about the same game anymore? I will never understand when people buy a Pirate game that allows players to rob and attack each other, yet become shocked and outraged when people do just that. Every veteran in this game learned in the exact environment as you. If we can learn in this environment, why can't you? It isn't uncommon for games to place new and old players together. The difference is you gave up at the literal first sign of adversity that this game has to offer, meanwhile the rest of us kept at it til we thrived in that environment.

    You seem to have your mind set, I see no reason in trying to convince you of this game otherwise. Especially when you give up at the first sign of difficulty.

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @kittytimelord

    If you want to learn Sea of Thieves, it's best to do it with a crew. More numbers often means more fun and an easier time. It is also not an MMO, with 6-24 players filling a server to capacity, though it rarely reaches either extreme, sitting in the middle instead.
    Starting out with a bad experience can make the game seem bad, but it's not the only experience in the game. Everyone who plays had to start somewhere, but if you want to learn the basics of controls, I suggest playing the Maiden Voyage, which can be accessed from the main menu (you can see it with a prompt in the bottom right) and is a solo tutorial without other players to bother you.
    Some people kill just to kill, yes. They get enjoyment out of it, but you can escape. On the Ferry of the Damned, on the right side of the door out, a note is pinned to the wall advising you of the 'scuttle' feature, which sinks your ship once your entire crew votes for it and spawns it elsewhere. If you are tracked down by that crew, then switching servers by simply leaving and joining another (it will automatically put you in a new one) is also a solution. Those players didn't have anything you didn't have access to, though, everyone has the same weapons and stats. The only upgrades are cosmetic or affect what voyages you're given. I assume the 'magic spells' they had were actually cursed cannonballs, which are found out in the world and often on the outposts you spawn at, or firebombs which are similarly found as resources.
    Fallen players do spawn in a safe zone: the Ferry. You might have noticed that you can't use weapons on there, and it's were everyone on the server goes when they die, it provides you time to scuttle the ship without respawning or to at least think about what happened for half a minute.
    Offline play is different from the things you have seen suggested and debated, however both would accomplish similar tasks of taking much of the variance away from the game. You have to figure out what's happening as a new player beyond the basic controls, as everyone who started had to once. And as for the PvE you do ask for the ability to do, of battling NPCs, completing voyages and exploring lore, many people already do that and either defend themselves or avoid other players altogether. You can't win every fight, but if you know how to sail well (which people will teach you, if you ask) you can run from any fight. This form of offline play can't be a thing with how Rare wants the game to be, you don't get to just decide you don't want other pirates in the game. That's what the game is, after all, it's a sandbox (not an MMO) where you make your own place in the world among others. It's meant to be played with a group of 3 or 4, try that, perhaps have someone who's experienced who can help you out with fights that do come your way. Not everyone on the Sea of hostile, but many are.

  • BloodyBil
    Legend
    Insider

    Welcome to the game and to the forum!

    As a brand new player, the game can be overwhelming at first but please at least try to give it some time to get to know the game better and to acclimate to it, and in no time you will accomplish things you won't think were possible for you at first.

    Also there are lots of threads on the same topic created by other people who also don't quite understand what the game is about, feel free to contribute over there too!

  • WithMyApologies
    Legend
    Insider

    @KittyTimeLord Instead of your first post being to ask to make the game different/easier, why couldn't you ask for help instead?

    Why must everyone need everything to be easier? Surely you understand that once you become more experienced at this game, you will be better at it and more equipped to deal with the situation you described? I mean, that's pretty much how all games work. No-one picks up a new game and instantly completes it or becomes the best player in the game.

    This was, unfortunately, a disappointment and I hope there will be at least an open discussion about adding an option for those who either want to play alone (and offline) or with those that they choose (and offline) while still having the main option an MMO server. I disagree that adding those kinds of options will take away the reason why this game was created. I think that it would open it up to a larger variety of people. Those who want an MMO, they can have their MMO. Those who want to just play with their friends, can just play with their friends. And of course, those who just want to sail the open ocean, battling NPC's, learning lore, and finding the booty of famous pirates all by themselves, can do just that.

    That game you describe, already exists, it's called Atlas. It's not nearly as well thought of as Sea of Thieves, so I'm not sure I can agree with changing this game to make it more like a worse one tbh.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @kittytimelord said in An Option for Everyone:

    This was, unfortunately, a disappointment and I hope there will be at least an open discussion about adding an option for those who either want to play alone (and offline) or with those that they choose (and offline) while still having the main option an MMO server.

    There is no discussion to be had. This game can flat out not run in a standalone/single player/local coop mode. The console SKUs for which it was designed are likely not going to be able to run it, and if it was possible it would still require a rewrite of the entire game to switch it from a client-server architecture.

    The best option that will do something similar to what you are looking for is going to be private servers, which Rare have stated they are looking into. However, they are either going to be limited to special events or cost a regular $$$ subscription similar to hosting that other games provide.

  • Galactic Geek
    Seafarer
    Founder

    It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they kept killing you over and over again due to the sheer disbelief of you never scuttling. They probably figured that you either were stubborn as heck, or completely ignorant, and decided that you were good practice for testing their combat prowess. You see, this game uses horizontal progression, meaning you have all of the same tools and resources at the start that long-time players have - but you don't have the experience; that's what sets you apart.

    I can't really add more to what's already been said, so I'll just reiterate what others are saying. Don't give up so soon or easily due to a bad experience or your own ignorance. Try again, listen to our advice, and/or try sailing with a bigger crew that has more experience that can literally and figuratively show you the ropes.

  • BurnBacon
    Champion
    Insider

    As many of the others before me fail to explain or understand.

    Yes, new players will find the seas to be tiring and horrible place. You will be attacked, spawn killed, and sunk regardless if you have loot or not. After all....the loot itself is kind of pointless to those PL who can't level up anymore, so they find new things to do. "Attack ships on sight"

    Disappointed is basically how this community is at this given time and it best to move on. This game isn't for everyone, even if it is Teen. That is the game rating NOT the Online part which should be A for...well Donkey.

    Its Pirates life.
    Gather yourself a group of fellow friends, stick together and just...play it.

  • Jusey1z
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @blazedrake100 said in An Option for Everyone:

    @kittytimelord
    Rare does plan to make private servers with no progression in them. It's OK if you don't like the game, but the mix of pvp and pve in an open world is what makes it special.

    This isn't the first game to do that though... Many many games has done this mix before (such as Minecraft) and those same games has also offer other options of playing the game as they wish but in separate progressions. (One progression per game really).

    Sea of Thieves isn't special because of the gameplay or mechanics... It's only special due to the theme. There isn't that many really really good pirate games, let alone any good ONLINE pirate games, and Sea of Thieves does it pretty well. It has problems, granted, but it's a good game and with time, it'll become a top tier game.

  • Jusey1z
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @burnbacon said in An Option for Everyone:

    As many of the others before me fail to explain or understand.

    Yes, new players will find the seas to be tiring and horrible place. You will be attacked, spawn killed, and sunk regardless if you have loot or not. After all....the loot itself is kind of pointless to those PL who can't level up anymore, so they find new things to do. "Attack ships on sight"

    Now, I'm a little bias here. (On my 3rd day of playing Seas of Thieves) but I've never had any problems. Been playing mostly solo and just wrecking stuff. The game is honestly very very easy. The AI can be exploited easily, which makes soloing stuff not hard at all, and the game doesn't punish you that much for dying if you do die... The only punishment is if you ship sinks with treasure on it.

    But, like I said, I am bias here due to my past experience in online PvP games... In other titles, I tend to play a Master to Pro tier gameplay, and playing in a free open world where I'm technically able to meet players of any tier? It's very chaotic. Most encounters I've been able to outplay or/and outsmart players attacking me and have caused some chaos of my own even... Never even been spawn camped. The few who attempts to do that dies immediately by my hand when I come back. I don't tolerate that behavior on my ship. I may allow people on my ship freely if they don't attack but if they are doing that? Their corpse will be in the ocean very quickly...

    But even then... I too still would love to have a private server option and the chance to freely lay back in this game because I honestly begun playing it for the stupid stuff you can do and the peaceful moments (such as fishing). I get enough PvP stress from my main online games... Need a break from that sometime.

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @jusey16842

    Yes, Minecraft has a different progression per world. If we consider Sea of Thieves currently as one server (even though it's really multiple) and a PvE version to be a personal world, with different progression, then the anti-PvE server group would be mostly fine with it. That's one of the several suggested compromises that the PvE server group didn't accept, actually. Progression-less private servers were another one. However, that one analogy working doesn't mean that Sea of Thieves is really all that much like Minecraft, due to things such as the horizontal progression. They're different genres, even if SoT is considered a sandbox game too. It will become a top-tier game in time, if the gaming community at large realizes that not every game has to be a carbon copy of the last one in terms of certain mechanics, like progression. If that doesn't happen due to the conditioning of a lot of developers, then it will remain as a sizable game with a dedicated playerbase regardless. There's a reason the players who do enjoy the game are nearly inseparable from it.

  • UltmateRagnarok
    Master

    @jusey16842

    If you want to do something like fishing, which involves sitting in one place for a long time with a distracting task to do while amassing a sizable pile of valuables, you have to be prepared to defend yourself from those who want to fight. Sometimes you won't encounter another ship for hours, other times you'll barely be able to escape other players finding you, that's part of the game - if you want a place on the Sea, you have to make one for yourself, be it off of an existing gap or by forcing your way through what others may want to do instead. It is already a lot slower paced overall than many PvP-focused games, though player combat is still quite quick. You can have peaceful moments and even entire sessions, you just really shouldn't take them for granted, because you never know what another ship's intentions may be.

  • DISLEX fx
    Captain
    Insider

    B l o c k e d.

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @kittytimelord

    However, like many massive multiplayer online games, there are player issues. From research after playing, I have found out that the community has been divided between those who want to keep SoT as is and those who want a single-player/local co-op option.

    1. SoT is not an MMO, there's nothing "massive" about 24 player servers, that is, in fact, quite standard for Arena-style games with PvP in them, like call of duty, battlefield, day of defeat, Team fortress 2... etc etc.

    2. You didn't do any research, because if you did, you'd know that SoT is, in fact, not an MMO. :P

    3. The community isn't divided, there's an incredibly small minority of people within the community, that likes to cause drama for no reason, they take the form of PvE supporters, usually, but they don't actually care about the game, they only care about causing as much drama and destruction as possible... That is all. And the reason you think the community is divided is because this minority have incredibly loud voices on the forums... It's called a "vocal minority".

  • Sweltering Nick
    Castaway

    @ultmateragnarok

    If we consider Sea of Thieves currently as one server (even though it's really multiple) and a PvE version to be a personal world, with different progression, then the anti-PvE server group would be mostly fine with it. That's one of the several suggested compromises that the PvE server group didn't accept, actually.

    Uuh, no... Separate forms of progression isn't the issue, and the PvE community suggested it, but the rest of the SoT community didn't approve, because what that suggestion is, isn't even a compromise, and it completely messes up the balance of the game, due to human nature.

    If there is an easy mode, people will play that to progress faster. So implementing this would destroy the entire community over time. And if they progress faster, they finish faster, meaning they stop playing the game out of boredom, etc etc.

    You're getting your facts a little bit mixed up, buddy. x]

    There's a reason why private servers will not allow ANY progression, and will simply be there for community hosted events, enjoying the tall tales without interruption, etc etc. You cannot earn gold, dubloons or commendations in a private server, that's the deal.

    If you could progress in private server, it would make adventure mode obsolete... That's why it's not gonna happen. : /

  • Zhaph
    Commander
    Insider

    @kittytimelord said in An Option for Everyone:

    I was trying out this game with an older friend of mine who enjoys videogames very much but adapts slower to videogame mechanics than other people online.

    Sadly, that might have been your initial mistake - if you start the game solo, you'd have been forced to take the "Maiden Voyage" that would indeed put you in a small, individual instance where you are taught, and can learn at your own pace, the mechanics of the game - using your tools, finding treasure, fixing up your ship, sailing, stearing, etc. You can even find a nice horde of loot to set your character up.

    However if you start in a party you sadly skip that tutorial :(

    This game is rated for teens, so I figured that we would have some time to figure out how to steer ships and shoot skeletons.

    The ratings are not really to do with how difficult the game is, but more to do with it's actual content - they are often given based on videos submitted by the developer rather than play-throughs, etc. and focus on things like swearing, drinking, gore, etc.

    We dearly enjoyed our time learning to sail and navigating the seas. We enjoyed reading what the NPC's had to say and the story that seemed to be coming out of what items we found. Even after we were killed the first time by our attackers, we were enjoying it. It is a game after all. But that faded fast as we became utterly helpless.

    It's great that you liked the story, and I'm sorry you didn't find the in-game prompts by the door on the Ferry of the Damned that tells you about scuttling your ship if you keep getting killed - this will move you to a further away island and should give you some time to recover.

  • Jusey1z
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    @sweltering-nick said in An Option for Everyone:

    @ultmateragnarok

    If we consider Sea of Thieves currently as one server (even though it's really multiple) and a PvE version to be a personal world, with different progression, then the anti-PvE server group would be mostly fine with it. That's one of the several suggested compromises that the PvE server group didn't accept, actually.

    Uuh, no... Separate forms of progression isn't the issue, and the PvE community suggested it, but the rest of the SoT community didn't approve, because what that suggestion is, isn't even a compromise, and it completely messes up the balance of the game, due to human nature.

    If there is an easy mode, people will play that to progress faster. So implementing this would destroy the entire community over time. And if they progress faster, they finish faster, meaning they stop playing the game out of boredom, etc etc.

    If you could progress in private server, it would make adventure mode obsolete... That's why it's not gonna happen. : /

    1. There's nothing wrong with players finishing the game quicker. Hell, the game is very quick already even with the threat of other players due to how easy the game is... Having a separate option for players isn't going to harm the game much (and I'm not even gonna use it. I don't mind the threat of other players personally). I just support having options for those players who might not even play this game at all due to not wanting to deal with the stress of other players at all.

    And dividing the community isn't a bad thing in all honesty. We are all different and have different wishes. Sure, we should be united as a whole community but also being divided in different sections is a lot more healthy. A good division of the community is probably why Team Fortress 2 has been going for over 10+ years. Due to it's own community servers, there is something for everyone and people tend to keep to what they like and enjoy the game as they wish.

    And yes, some players will get bored quickly... But that doesn't mean they will just flat-out stop playing the game. That just means they will probably stop playing in their own private world and go back to the main servers for a bit to work on their other progression.

    1. Adventure mode being obsolete? That's very subjective. Going back to my TF2 example here... I think that the main normal casual queue in that game to be obsolete and useless, which is why I don't use it... Due to Custom Servers being a thing. However, people still use it a lot. You can still get matches very quickly even though there is a lot of other players in the Custom Servers. So, is it truly obsolete?

    Or could use your own words against you. You say that the easiest option will be the go to and that the harder option will be obsolete? Then why does this not happen with singleplayer games, like RPGs, which has these as difficult settings? Like "Ori and the Blind Forest", a game which has an easy option just for the progression alone but it also has much harder options, including an one life mode that are still pretty famously used by players who, shocker, wants a competition? Then there is also the fact that difficult games, like the Souls series, sells very well even though they should be obsolete in your own words as far easier and similar games can be played instead...

    I think you may not know human nature too much... Sure, it's true that we tend to prefer the easier option but it is also in our nature to overcome difficulties in our lives. Some humans even goes out of their way to make their life harder or always do the harder way to achieve a goal... This reason is mostly for glory and self-worth. Because if you do something that was difficult, no matter how little of an effect it actually has on your life, it ends up improving your personal view of your own self-worth as it feels AMAZING to overcome tough situations... Mostly because your body finally relaxes after being stressed during those situations and the chemicals it release during this is a bit addictive, making people want to do it more and more...

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