Permanent ship damage

This would make it more frustrating for players that spend more time on a server than those that just hop looking to steal.

Imagine doing your athena voyage and then the game handicap you while a ship that server hopped ten minutes ago steals it with no handicap.

Bad idea.

This would also punish those who kept their ship afloat after a battle while rewarding those who sank to continually keep returning until the other ship is so badly damaged and handicapped it would lose.

There is no way to totally balance out this idea without sending a crew who sinks to a new server, which would also result in emptying servers.

I just don’t see how they could balance such damage mechanics.

@kommodoreyenser The damage would be slight and not enough to throw the balance of a fight. The point is not to nerf ships, but to make players feel the repercussions of their decisions. Increased cosmetic damage would help as well.

@D3ADST1CK scuttling would not remove the damage / cosmetics (although being sunk by another ship would).

@prescafatty No. Just no. This is a terrible idea.

I guess it would be excellent for only pve content. Even though this seems realistic, for the balance of the game, it doesn't seems to fit the pvp side of things too well.

Hmm, not seeing a lot of love for this one.

@D3ADST1CK @EzraTheSkeleton Let me ask the group something. Short term repairs are part of combat strategy, right? Deciding when to go below and nail in boards versus, say, manning sails or cannons is a crucial part of tactics.

Why couldn't long term repairs be a crucial part of questing/PVP strategy? Deciding when to pull into a port or a bay and spend two minutes as a crew fixing up your ship to get it back to 100% before continuing on?

@prescafatty I think this is a great idea. Bunch of whiners. It’s almost like seeing a car barely making it to the finish line with sounds of mechanical issues and black smoke coming out of the exhaust. My friends and I always throw either fire bombs or Keg the ship at the end and top it off with a shanty.

I think it would make your experience even more rewarding when you finish (if you finish) your adventure. I like the idea too where you can pay for a FULL repair.

No. I would like to be able to repair cosmetic damage at dock, but no to everything else.

@ecaiiaw Appreciate the vote of support. You get it. Making it feel chitty chitty bang bang when pulling into port is almost more important than the actual permanent damage.

To your point @BASlayer, I'd love more extensive cosmetic damage. You should be able to tell what adventures a boat got up to by looking at it. Massive hull patches? Tons of sea battles. Blackened bow? You know where the fire started. Algae dripping under gunwales for those who've stayed at sea too long.

@viperishemu2992 Yep! Appreciate the input and agree that's totally necessary. Even had it at the end of my original post:

You could, of course, pay a bit to a shipwright to do a full repair in port

To make it even easier, you could also give crews the ability to spend a few minutes at anchor repairing their ship to 100%.

@prescafatty

... and thats a big fat NO from me.

I enjoyed the way my ship looked after an encounter with the fleet and 2 meg attacks yesterday, full of holes and hardly any paint left.. looked very 'lived in' to say the least..

As a solo slooper half the time that's as far as I need it to go thanks. It's bad enough out there sometimes without your ship being irreparably hobbled at sea. Given the time and resources you should be able to fix anything anywhere.

@prescafatty not a fan, I like a battled look for my ship. Yet as a proper sailor I do not anchor and also have no interest in being consistently required to head back to the ship to scoop water.

As someone that battles as a solo, forcing me to keep bucketing water means I would eventually just scuttle the ship and get a new one. Not something that should be promoted to do.

Why should I deal with a crippled ship because I can keep it floating? I do skeleton fleets by myself, my sloop tends to take a beating and yet I manage to be the one on the waves at the end of a battle instead of below it and my reward... go down and bucket water, have a cannon that you can no longer properly control, etc. Like half the time I have to follow up that battle with engaging a brigantine full of pirates...

People who don’t support this idea are either lazy or they’re not understanding the Idea behind the original post. He even mentioned (which some of you didn’t read) the idea of repairing it at any outpost just by talking to the shipyard lady. What is so bad about that? Using some ‘spit and glue’ to hold your ship up (everyone on the same playing field) where every decision you make truly matters. Performing maintenance checks (here’s where I lose people) while sailing from A to B. More action. Too many times I see people just sailing into an island and crashing into it. There’s should be more of a penalty for that. Not just “throw a plank on it”. I think this is a great idea. Remember.... it’s over a long period of time, not every 5 mins.

@ecaiiaw

I am lazy? Really... how often have you done a skeleton fleet solo? How often do you go out and fight multiple pirates and place yourself in danger? Come back and tell me after doing the fleet by yourself that the person doing that is the lazy one, but the crew sitting at the island over there watching you do it... to strike when it goes down should have the better ship, the working cannons and the non-leaking hull when that loot comes up? Btw. you are using your resources, while they could be stocking up already... so unless you are prepared to fight afterwards, you might not have those planks to just slap on that hole.

I don't understand how time investment should be rewarded, being victorious should give you an edge and not slowly but steadily make your ship worse than those that sit around at the island waiting and having you do all the hard work to then swoop in or those that joined the server and haven't done a single action yet? Those that survive should be rewarded, not punished.

Repair at the shipwright... why? Just sink your own ship, get a brand new one! Fresh and clean, no issues and continue? But my precious planks... well they are apparently not that precious, crash into an island and slap it on right according to you it isn't much of a penalty when required to use them and therefore having them isn't that important either. Additionally, put them in a storage crate or rowboat and you can pick them up with a free ship. What exactly am I missing?

Who is the lazy one? The one that engages in fights: gets hit by cannonballs, get eaten by sharks, getting wrapped by tentacles and beat their opponents come out as the victorious one or the one that saves their ship, watches the other do all the work and comes in to try and steal the loot after the fact? Who should have the edge in battle... the ones with the holes in their ship, the battle scars or the one with the pristine ship that never left the dock?

If I see people sail and crash into an island... most likely I will be flying in the air going to greet them with my sword! You have a hole in your hull, you better patch it up before I get there! No punishment... maybe because you don't take advantage of the situation, the fact that someone has to go down, use resources and therefore isn't guarding their ladder is a disadvantage. Sure if you aren't in battle, if you collected (actions required) resources it takes little to patch up.

Have you ever been in a long drawn out fight? I for sure have, it is the best way to fight as a solo. I have literally had ships sail away from me because they ran out of planks or cannonballs and could not fight me anymore while I had the stock to keep going. Just slap another plank on that hole I created... ooh wait!

Everyone is given the best gear, the best tools, the best weapons and the best version of their ship of choice at the start of the game. Doing more actions should make you stronger, not weaker than your opponent that hasn't done anything yet. It isn't a hard concept to grasp, it is one of the fundamentals of games usually.

The people that go out into the world and engage with it should be rewarded more than those that sit there watching others do the work for them. This concept is literally the reverse... what exactly am I missing or not understanding?

I play full loot pvp survival games, where things deteriorate, need to be replaced and fixed... why because you came from nothing, had to gather it, collect it, craft it and repair it to keep use. Those things are not given to you at the start of the game, are not given to you after a death... they give you an advantage as long as you have them. It makes no sense to make the use of something worse, while death and losing will just fix it. Why would one not be able to patch it up to the state it was originally in - it was handed to you at the start as your basic kit set?

You get that we are supposed to encourage people to stay on the seas, collect more loot so they risk more when they are engaging with other pirates. You know provide loot to steal... have them head to an outpost more often, means they will sell more often - you are already there so why not? Meaning that less pirates have loot on their ships, meaning less loot to be stolen... who exactly is not getting the concept of the game?

@CotU42

Repair at the shipwright... why? Just sink your own ship, get a brand new one!

You totally can! But you may not want to if:

a) you have loot
b) you don't want to spend time sailing back
c) you want to keep the resources you've already gathered

Who should have the edge in battle... the ones with the holes in their ship, the battle scars or the one with the pristine ship that never left the dock?

The pristine ship, obviously! :)

Why would one not be able to patch it up to the state it was originally in - it was handed to you at the start as your basic kit set?

I think you missed that you could reverse all long-term damage by spending a minute or two repairing at anchor.

Those that survive should be rewarded, not punished.

Rewarded, if you can hold onto your loot! And those jackalopes hiding behind the island? Put up a good fight when they attack, and now their ship has long-term damage. You've got the brand new pristine ship, so go reclaim your treasure before they turn it in!

who exactly is not getting the concept of the game?

The game boils down to two simple parts: getting loot and surviving long enough to turn it in. Long-term ship damage adds another strategic wrinkle to the "surviving" part and increases the-skin-of-your teeth feel. It makes it more of a true adventure!

Lastly, let's set the record straight: a little bit of long term damage is not going to ruin anyone's day. The intent was never to bust someone's balls or put the game into nightmare mode. If you have to go below to bail one bucket of water every 1 and 1/2 minute or so, is that really so bad? But when you did go down, you hear a steady "drip drip drip," and you see drops dribbling down the hull. Super cinematic and adds to the tension. You have to either pull over for a minute or choose to push on. It's choices like these that make the game.

@cotu42

So... am I suppose to explain and describe every story that I have been through as well? I know this game inside and out. Been through it all and to answer all those little questions and remarks about your adventures, yes, I have done fleets, krakens, megs, FOTD’s, PvP, camping forts, kegging, tucking...

The point was (I think you sort of understood) is even in the heat of battle, these “maintenance” ideas won’t kick in until after a certain amount of time it took damage. So.. battles could be quick or they could take 1-2 hours of chasing. Every situation is different. Now keep in mind, the idea is something to learn and grow off of. Maybe you have a point. Maybe there something that can be done about scuttling. I believe the OP pointed out scuttling wouldn’t erase your damages. Only sinking. So.. after sinking a ship, you’re still alive, they’re not. Who winning here? Sure, those guys that sunk will come back with a fresh ship but you’re the one who holding it down. A little repairs WON’T be a game changer, but something to think about. For ALL pirates. So if I put holes in your ship, eventually you have to do the same.

Maybe it’s the fact that you said you sloop a lot that makes you say “naa no thanks” Okay. I sloop from time to time depending on my mood. But if this ‘element’ was in the game, the game would change a little for everybody. The idea was to make it look like your ship been through hell when returning to the outpost. Like your “fleet” story. If you still want to continue, look at it as a ‘pit stop’. Need repairs quick! Players guarding the ship and keep an eye out for other pirates that could be chasing you. It just brings a whole new angle to the game for such a small change. Maybe even something can be considered do to ship sizes. Like maybe a sloop won’t need to worry about “drip drip drip” for a while, compared to a galleon. Added advantage.

There’s been times I ran out of supplies. Ran out of cannons, planks, food... but I like the idea of seeing my ship ‘firebomb’ damage still left behind, holes that need constant repair, mast has cracks all over it (cosmetic enhancements). Just feels and looks more unique.

@ecaiiaw no what you don't get isnI hate to sell, I run around the seas for hours without fear of losing all the loot I get. I am a pinata of loot onboard. I am an experienced pirate that trust on their ability to win instead of going out and selling after every event I do.

I win more than one battle, I don't need to head back to base and recover every single time I win a battle and patch up the ship. Get into a scrap and take time to recover. Sell the loot, get the lady to patch my ship up to be combat ready, or more likely sell, sink the ship, grab it and move on.

Why would the game promote me to sell more, dump that loot and restart? How is that beneficial? Don't you want to come across me on my journey, don't you want to sink pirates that actually could hold large amounts of treasure?

Nobody wants to be endlessly bailing, nobody wants a cannon they cannot aim with in battle properly. The combat ended, now go and fix it at the outpost removes pinatas as myself from the seas.

Just bad, let me be the pirate you dream about finding and sinking. Don't force me to act like a new player, selling after every single victory where I gain some loot.

I like to fight, but I also like my ship to be reliable in battle. The loot is not my concern though I will grab it, I will sell it...or I will lose it if you manage to best me in a battle. Why would the victor in battle be given a lesser ship, than someone who sank, someone who just entered the game?

It kicks in after battle, yes... and gimps you for the next. Meaning now you have to reset your ship if you want working cannons, don't want to already be gaining water... I reset my ship every time I start the game or when I sink, that is enough.

I love the battle look feel, I hate the idea that my cannons are not shooting straight or my ship is still taking in water.

@prescafatty said in Permanent ship damage:

For example, after your hull gets shot up a few times, there should be a permanent trickle of water into the bilge. A damaged cannon sits askew and aims a little off.

A little extra inconvenience here and there would paradoxically endear you to your ship, the Millennium Falcon effect. Plus, sailing a bucket of bolts makes you feel you really earned your adventure.

Additional cosmetic damage would help. After a few battles, the hull should look disgusting. The ship's tables and barrels are cracked. Fire damage permanently chars wood. Sails rip and become patched over time. A ship that's been in a few battles should look like a scarred prizefighter.

You could of course pay a bit to a shipwright to do a full repair in port or even spend a few minutes at anchor to bring your boat back to 100%.

The damage is minimal so I agree it wouldn't be punishing. It could add depth. However for it to properly work we need a reason to hang onto our ship instead of scuttling and getting a brand new one.

If new ships spawned with zero resources or something then we would be more inclined to keep her afloat.

I like this idea.
Sure it would be frustrating at times but you know that old saying about owning boats. The best days is the day you get her...then the day you get rid of her.

@daringclarky the fact that a sunken ship will be better than a floating ship makes no sense. No resources, is easily resolved with some finding or you load what you have in a rowboat and pick it up.

The game shouldn't promote to sell more often, head back to the outpost... while you are there people will just sell their loot, instead of continuing their journeys and therefore are more often going to be empty when you fight them.

Look further the bigger picture! If everyone has to go back to an outpost to patch up after being victorious in battle, who will be the only ones with loot. The PvE players that don't want to fight, those who already complain about being ganked and now you want to have them be the only juicy targets at sea?

@ecaiiaw

I'm not lazy dude, I'm just a pirate who trained under a shipwright when I was a nipper with a ton of gaffer tape, nails and wood on board plus a nice new onyx bucket who doesn't require the services of the ''shipyard lady" to fix my ship at an outpost. I don't trust her shoddy work...

@cotu42 said in Permanent ship damage:

@daringclarky the fact that a sunken ship will be better than a floating ship makes no sense. No resources, is easily resolved with some finding or you load what you have in a rowboat and pick it up.

The game shouldn't promote to sell more often, head back to the outpost... while you are there people will just sell their loot, instead of continuing their journeys and therefore are more often going to be empty when you fight them.

Look further the bigger picture! If everyone has to go back to an outpost to patch up after being victorious in battle, who will be the only ones with loot. The PvE players that don't want to fight, those who already complain about being ganked and now you want to have them be the only juicy targets at sea?

For the record i dont care about PVE players. I dont class myself as a PVP or PVE because i enjoy both aspects of the game. Its a shared world. If they wanna sail in peace then they have to avoid pirates and use their spyglass like I do. its simple.
The entire point of the game is to pirate and so yes, any ship whether PVE or anything else is a target.

Perhaps there should be more of an incentive than just loot.
Im mega rich so half the time i dont even pick up the loot anymore.

However, to get around the behaviour of cashing in every tome you visit an outpost there could be a system where you get a bonus for handing in big hauls within a set time.
Therefore cashing in quickly and small amounts would be safe but less rewarding. Keeping it on your ship and cashing in a bigger haul will promote hoarding and ultimately add a bonus to them if they keep posession of it.

This would make the OP idea perfectly viable.
Even present an opportunity for a outpost heist too as they are at the outpost to repair but not cash in.

So yes, i am aware of the bigger picture my friend.

@daringclarky

Just because you are not a PvE player, does that mean those should not be considered when expanding on the game? This is an open world game, a shared world in which different styles meet, shouldn't they all be considered?

You do not care about loot and gold, yet you want to be the incentive to not sell be in the game while pushing people towards the locations designed to sell?

You PvP, you go and try to steal from other people... are you telling me if you see sails at an outpost they look like a good target? If they are there and they see sails coming for them, what incentive would be big enough not to just cash in before they arrive? Outposts are a horrible place to try to make a heist, like literally every other place on the map is better! They cannot secure the loot, therefore you can chase, catch them and sink them. At an outpost they don't need to care, as long as they pick it up and talk to a guy... there won't be anything to steal. If you sink their ship they will get a new one.

The incentive to hold on to loot is done by providing tasks that avoid you going to the place where you unload it and secure it. Keep the people away from outposts and they need to bring it along if they want to cash it in.

You are literally stating: If we add something that is not in the game, the OP idea would be perfectly viable. Yet the game is not like that... the game provides you with a brand new ship, perfect and pristine at the start of the game, after each sink that you get... why should you by playing the game fall behind a new spawn or someone that failed to keep their ship floating?

There is no investment in having a fully repaired ship, literally spawn into the game, spawn in after a loss.... there you go! Why should you be forced to be in a specific place where you go to secure loot to replace it. Just scuttle and you get one for free and it is just a mermaid away... how is that a good idea? You should never end up behind what you start out with if you are actively playing the game. People want a sense of progression, not deterioration when playing.

We already have the ability to repair and maintain our ships, take damage and you can patch it yourself... why do you need to talk to a specific NPC to do it for you? Why take away that from the players, punish those that manage to stay a float and force them to the end-point of a session; the outpost where you cash in and secure your spoils.

@cotu42 said in Permanent ship damage:

@daringclarky

Just because you are not a PvE player, does that mean those should not be considered when expanding on the game? This is an open world game, a shared world in which different styles meet, shouldn't they all be considered?

You do not care about loot and gold, yet you want to be the incentive to not sell be in the game while pushing people towards the locations designed to sell?

You PvP, you go and try to steal from other people... are you telling me if you see sails at an outpost they look like a good target? If they are there and they see sails coming for them, what incentive would be big enough not to just cash in before they arrive? Outposts are a horrible place to try to make a heist, like literally every other place on the map is better! They cannot secure the loot, therefore you can chase, catch them and sink them. At an outpost they don't need to care, as long as they pick it up and talk to a guy... there won't be anything to steal. If you sink their ship they will get a new one.

The incentive to hold on to loot is done by providing tasks that avoid you going to the place where you unload it and secure it. Keep the people away from outposts and they need to bring it along if they want to cash it in.

You are literally stating: If we add something that is not in the game, the OP idea would be perfectly viable. Yet the game is not like that... the game provides you with a brand new ship, perfect and pristine at the start of the game, after each sink that you get... why should you by playing the game fall behind a new spawn or someone that failed to keep their ship floating?

There is no investment in having a fully repaired ship, literally spawn into the game, spawn in after a loss.... there you go! Why should you be forced to be in a specific place where you go to secure loot to replace it. Just scuttle and you get one for free and it is just a mermaid away... how is that a good idea? You should never end up behind what you start out with if you are actively playing the game. People want a sense of progression, not deterioration when playing.

We already have the ability to repair and maintain our ships, take damage and you can patch it yourself... why do you need to talk to a specific NPC to do it for you? Why take away that from the players, punish those that manage to stay a float and force them to the end-point of a session; the outpost where you cash in and secure your spoils.

All playstyles are considered that's the point. I like pve but I don't whine like many others. I use my spyglass and avoid ships.

He is adding to the maintenance and repair system and it does make sense. Afterall there is only so much you could do at sea until you need to see a shipwright... Just like every other pirate game.

Cripple a ship enough and you can predict where they'll end up.

As for heists, we'll don't know about you mate but I've ambushed plenty of ships at an outpost and took hours worth of loot in minutes so it clearly is a good place to heist if you get there before they do and hide.

Now I appreciate your point of view on the matter but I don't entirely agree with yours mate. Now I can't be bothered with an exchange back and forwards like earlier on my own thread so please when I tell you the honest truth of my opinion, please don't send me paragraphs trying to convince me. I appreciate your input but I don't come here to debate. Not all the time at least.

I can clearly see you are as passionate and enjoy the game as much as I do so we have something in common. But please let's not restart another backward and forwards exchange. Its not healthy nor is it pleasant.

@daringclarky it adds to the outposts and NPC importance during your time at see, which you can avoid by sinking. Though your idea of boosting your weapons damage isn't something I thought would be balanced, at least your idea gave the power to the players instead of weakening it.

This idea is taking away from the power of a plank and the ability of the player to shoot cannons properly in a reliable way. For me it isn't expanding the power of someone maintaining their ship, it is now pushing you to head to the one place I think we should avoid pushing people towards the outpost and giving the NPCs more power that used to be in the hands of players.

@cotu42 said in Permanent ship damage:

@daringclarky it adds to the outposts and NPC importance during your time at see, which you can avoid by sinking. Though your idea of boosting your weapons damage isn't something I thought would be balanced, at least your idea gave the power to the players instead of weakening it.

This idea is taking away from the power of a plank and the ability of the player to shoot cannons properly in a reliable way. For me it isn't expanding the power of someone maintaining their ship, it is now pushing you to head to the one place I think we should avoid pushing people towards the outpost and giving the NPCs more power that used to be in the hands of players.

I understand that and you have a good point.

However the OP idea reminded me of the crippled limb system in the fallout franchise.

If you were to pelt the ship in specific spots and hit the cannons multiple times it would force the crew to make a journey to get a specialist to repair it up.

As right as you may be, I do feel as though that aspect could be interesting. Your cannons are all mangled so you go and get them replaced etc.

If you had a ship chock full of resources you wouldn't scuttle your ship because you would lose them all and we all pass an outpost at some point.

I could live with it. I don't think it would impact me that much looking at how I play.

Perhaps even a skilled solo could cripple an incompetent crew forcing them into a vulnerable position.

I think it would make gameplay different but interesting all the same :)

@cotu42 You could anchor in a cove somewhere and take a minute to repair the long-term damage yourself, so that removes the incentive to cash in early, yeah?

I've been solo slooping a lot lately and I can see how long-term ship damage would make that experience even more harrowing. I like @EcaIIaw's suggestion that long-term damage to sloops be minimal, or none at all (only cosmetic). If galleons incurred permanent damage, but sloops didn't, that would cause Galleons to think twice before picking on the solo guys.

@cotu42

I could understand your concerns more if you said...

“I don't really like the idea because it doesn’t benefit me to keep my ship if it needs repairs. Maybe if there was a benefit into doing that, then I can see that”

All I keep reading is two things from you. No benefit, and I’m not looking to constantly repair my boat just for “cosmetic effects”. If this idea was in the game from the start, you probably wouldn’t complain. But because you don’t want to do maintenance checks makes me still think laziness. Maybe if you suggested, “maybe you could add bonus loot for keeping your ship a float for X amount of hours”, that would be a great idea. A idea that I could get behind with. Even if you didn’t take any damage, it still goes into effect.

Every decision you make has either a penalty or reward that comes with it. It already has that. I’m just looking for a little more detail in those decisions...