It's SO frustrating that this is even a tactic. Especially when Reapers Bone's emissaries do it. Is this a "planned tactic" of the Red Sea creation by Rare? Is there any plan in the works to eliminate this possibility? Since this is in a public forum, what are some suggestions for how to resolve this?
Red Sea Runners?
Exact same topic a few posts below yours under Recent.
Simple Reaper's Bones/PvP changes - loot in red water returns to the map
This has always been the case with the Devils Shroud and I am of the opinion that it should be left the way it is.
Nobody should be rewarded if they fail to catch another player, regardless of how they get away.
This is legitimate tactic and has been in game since day one althou its simply more common now.
After countless hours of testing i have found there is a hard wall limit to the red sea and the only ship that can go close to it and make it back is a duo sloop. If you hit the wall your crew would be teleported in to the water. You can technically swim out and carry the loot into the less dangerous part of the red sea assuming the loot doesn't go past the wall. If not then you would have to get a ship close enough to harpoon.
Loot can be recovered but it's very difficult and very risky as even if you make it out of the red sea your ship will be very vanerable to attack as it will be heavily damaged.
@nabberwar I don't think anyone can deny this, at least not for 99.9% of the cases in which this occurs.
I don't consider them a sore loser if they are loading into a server and picking a fight with another ship with the sole intent of running their ship into the red to get the other crew to rage. Technically they won and completed their objective.
I don't consider them a sore loser if they are finishing their session and choose to drive their Storage Crates off into the red to make sure another crew doesn't get a leg-up regardless of whether it is empty or not. Honestly, we should be able to sell those anyway!
@nabberwar Do you include dumping cargo? Because as far as I'm concerned if someone is chasing you down even when you offer to give them some of your loot or offer to surrender dumping is a valid thing to do. Its not being a sore loser, its making a legitimate offer to exchange treasure for not being sunk and then dumping cargo behind you when they insist on hunting you down.
If feel its an especially valid tactic when you have a crew who enjoy spawn killing, boat camping, and outpost camping. Sometimes once they see shinies floating in the water behind your ship people decide to stop and pick them up, slowing them down. That's strategy.
If they don't see the shinies or choose not to stop I just continue dumping until they catch up and then go down fighting. No skin off my teeth.
The other thing I often do is load a rowboat with loot and then leave one person to man the ship while the rest of us row off with the loot. Does it annoy people? Sure, but that's PvP. I wouldn't have to do it if there were legitimate spawn protections in the game.
It's a valid strategy. Sometimes, you are outclassed or out numbered. Sometimes, your ping is 250ms+ (looking at you Rare!).
If you can't catch them by the time they red zone, you are at fault for chasing them into it. Sometimes, you have to turn away and figure out a different strategy. That strategy could be as simple as, you know you have spooked them. Sail away from them and send a rowboat with your crew to the nearest outpost and wait for them.
@nabberwar Do you include dumping cargo?
No, because this is completely different. Dumping cargo serves a purpose of giving the pursuer to choosing whether to stop the chase to pick up said loot or keep pursuing. Hell, I could even come back to them if I so choose, but the pursuer doesn't get this choice when it comes to the Red. The loot is gone, and no one can claim it. Taking loot into the Red serves no other purpose than soothing the ego of sore losers.
I don't consider them a sore loser if they are loading into a server and picking a fight with another ship with the sole intent of running their ship into the red to get the other crew to rage.
How, can they do this? No person can physically make a ship go into the Red. If the crew being pursued went into the Red, its by their own choice. What you described simply doesn't happen.
I don't consider them a sore loser if they are finishing their session and choose to drive their Storage Crates off into the red to make sure another crew doesn't get a leg-up regardless of whether it is empty or not. Honestly, we should be able to sell those anyway!
Disagree, its the same principal as loot, self sabotage to the point that no one wins is a tactic found amongst sore losers.
If you can't catch them by the time they red zone, you are at fault for chasing them into it.
This mindset is stupid, no on can force a ship to go into the Red with the only exclusion being taking physical control of the ship. If they went into the Red, they made the tangible decision to steer their ship in that direction. Running a ship into the Red is neither difficult, nor time consuming. Its poor sportsmanship found amongst sore losers, plain and simple.
Ya'll need to stop defending this. At the end of the day, this is all in good fun, stealth, stealing, and battles comes with the territory of the game. To do tactics that makes sure no one wins is just pathetic.
@nabberwar People who can't catch me for an hour+ before I go into the Shroud/scuttle my empty ship wouldn't deserve the loot they think I may have ;)
Change my mind :P
@nabberwar said in Red Sea Runners?:
I don't consider them a sore loser if they are loading into a server and picking a fight with another ship with the sole intent of running their ship into the red to get the other crew to rage.
How, can they do this? No person can physically make a ship go into the Red. If the crew being pursued went into the Red, its by their own choice. What you described simply doesn't happen.
Step 1: Join a server.
Step 2: Pick a fight and get someone to chase you.
Step 3: Run your ship into the red and sink.The sole intent is just to troll the other ship, which does happen. Since the goal was accomplished, it is not really a loss and they cannot be a "sore loser".
I don't consider them a sore loser if they are finishing their session and choose to drive their Storage Crates off into the red to make sure another crew doesn't get a leg-up regardless of whether it is empty or not. Honestly, we should be able to sell those anyway!
Disagree, its the same principal as loot, self sabotage to the point that no one wins is a tactic found amongst sore losers.
Disagree. Denying someone the chance of happening upon a Storage Crate is nowhere near the same as directly denying someone of it.
If you can't catch them by the time they red zone, you are at fault for chasing them into it.
This mindset is stupid, no on can force a ship to go into the Red with the only exclusion being taking physical control of the ship.
Yes, you can. Force in this instance is not merely a physical action. By cutting off all options one would normally take, you are indeed forcing them.
If they went into the Red, they made the tangible decision to steer their ship in that direction. Running a ship into the Red is neither difficult, nor time consuming. Its poor sportsmanship found amongst sore losers, plain and simple.
It was a decision, yes. A decision made because they were forced, plain and simple. They were forced because all options they would normally choose have been taken away.
Being forced for you is not the same as being forced to another.
Ya'll need to stop defending this. At the end of the day, this is all in good fun, stealth, stealing, and battles comes with the territory of the game. To do tactics that makes sure no one wins is just pathetic.
No, actually we don't. Feel however you want about it, but you can't simply force your opinion on others and tell them they need to stop simply because you disagree.
@triheadedmonkey
@nabberwar People who can't catch me for an hour+ before I go into the Shroud/scuttle my empty ship wouldn't deserve the loot they think I may have ;)
You can't destroy what you don't have. This isn't the same.
@nabberwar To be honest at this point its a case for rage against rage. Either the people running away will rage because they were caught or the people doing the chasing will rage because their target fled into the Red.
Making sure no-one wins is sometimes the best a person can hope for. They know they won't win in a fight, they don't want to fight, they don't like other people coming after them so they drag it out. If sailing up to another player's ship and taking all their loot, or sinking them, was easy and guaranteed everyone would do it all the time.
Running into the Red is just one of those things. You might not like it, but at the same time the person you're chasing doesn't like you chasing them either. If it takes a crew more than thirty minutes to capture one idiot (me) in a sloop carrying a couple of skulls and a fruit crate then as @triheadedmonkey said, they don't deserve the loot.
I don't like getting into combat because I'm terrible at it. I'm far better at sailing and preventing my ship from sinking. So if my only recourse in order to avoid an aspect of the game I don't find fun is to run into the Red then I will.
@nabberwar said in Red Sea Runners?:
People who destroy the loot onboard just so no one can get it are Sore losers,
So they're indulging in questionable actions for petty reasons?
Yup, sounds like a pirate to me.
Making sure no-one wins is sometimes the best a person can hope for.
Its a game, this is never an appropriate answer. Anyone who thinks going into the Red to ensure that no one gets their loot are the same people who flip the Checkers board when they are about to lose. Pure poor sportsmanship, plain and simple. This isn't the same as what @triheadedmonkey stated, he goes into the Red when no loot is at stake.
I don't like getting into combat because I'm terrible at it. I'm far better at sailing and preventing my ship from sinking. So if my only recourse in order to avoid an aspect of the game I don't find fun is to run into the Red then I will.
I also don't like losing in Monopoly, does that mean its ok for me to flip the board? The fact that you see running into the Red as your only option is the problem here. People should be willing to lose with dignity as least. Going into the Red is just pathetic.
@nabberwar said in Red Sea Runners?:
Its a game, this is never an appropriate answer. Anyone who thinks going into the Red to ensure that no one gets their loot are the same people who flip the Checkers board when they are about to lose. Pure poor sportsmanship, plain and simple.
This is more along the lines of simply getting up and walking away. Denying the other person the victory they want, plain and simple.
I also don't like losing in Monopoly, does that mean its ok for me to flip the board?
No, but it is acceptable to get up and walk away and deny the other players the victory that they want.
The fact that you see running into the Red as your only option is the problem here. People should be willing to lose with dignity as least. Going into the Red is just pathetic.
Multiple options does not equate to desired options. If desired options are taken away, a player is forced into an undesirable scenario with less than ideal options. They can choose whichever they want and have every right to pick the one the opposition doesn't like.
Step 1: Join a server.
Step 2: Pick a fight and get someone to chase you.
Step 3: Run your ship into the red and sink.The sole intent is just to troll the other ship, which does happen. Since the goal was accomplished, it is not really a loss and they cannot be a "sore loser".
If loot is involved, then yes. If the goal is to prevent anyone from getting said loot, then you are in fact a sore loser. The fact that someone is so unwilling to just simply lose is a problem here. Its ok to lose sometimes, it comes with the nature of games.
Disagree. Denying someone the chance of happening upon a Storage Crate is nowhere near the same as directly denying someone of it.
If no one is chasing you, then no issue here. In my defense it wasn't made clear if people were chasing you for it and stuff was inside it. If no one is pursuing for it, there is no issue.
Yes, you can. Force in this instance is not merely a physical action. By cutting off all options one would normally take, you are indeed forcing them.
Sorry, but no. You have the choice to simply fight, yet you chose to flip the game board. You could have had your last piece on the board taken, but instead you flipped the table. Its no different, the fact that no one seems to be willing to lose with dignity is a problem here. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Its ok.
@v(a)ca-hombre
So they're indulging in questionable actions for petty reasons?
Yup, sounds like a pirate to me.
Pirates also swear and would have zero qualms berating and abusing the people at their whims, but a line gets drawn there right? Too many people seem to like to arguing its a Pirate game when it suits them. This is a video game at the end of the day, stealth, stealing, and battle comes with the territory. When it comes to games there will always be sportsmanship involved.
Games like Rust even have it, no one likes people who will start despawning their loot the minute a group starts raiding their compound. There is just stuff you don't do even when you play as pretend unethical people.
This is more along the lines of simply getting up and walking away. Denying the other person the victory they want, plain and simple.
No, but it is acceptable to get up and walk away and deny the other players the victory that they want.
Except, this isn't walking away from the game. This is taking an active role in ensuring no one gets anything. You or anyone walking away from the game would be to simply quit through the menu, but no, that isn't enough. You also need that smug satisfaction that no one gets anything. There is the phrase, "To the victor goes the spoils," you actively removing the spoils is the problem. You can certainly walk away from the checkers board, but that is the same as forfeiting. Its no where near the same as being destructive in either flipping the board or sailing into the Red.
This conversation really isn't going anywhere, so I will leave it off with this. I will never sail into the Red with the intentions of denying my opponents loot. Its pathetic and I will not indulge in tactics that sore losers engage in.
The most easy way to solve this is to completly remove sharks from the shroud that way one can simply swim to recover loot and simply scrifice a harpoon rowboat to get the loot that falls beyond the wall. But i think Rare like this as an option if they didn't they would mention this tatic and callit out as bad play.
@nabberwar Scenario: I am being chased, offer to surrender, am refused or ignored. I do not want to spend the next hour of my life trying to run away, dumping cargo hasn't worked, other options haven't worked. I do not want to fight or waste time trying.
You're saying I should turn around and let the people chasing me do whatever they like, just because not doing so is 'unfair'. Sorry if I have little sympathy when things don't go the way you want when you are actively ruining my experience of the game.
@nabberwar Scenario: I am being chased, offer to surrender, am refused or ignored. I do not want to spend the next hour of my life trying to run away, dumping cargo hasn't worked, other options haven't worked. I do not want to fight or waste time trying.
You're saying I should turn around and let the people chasing me do whatever they like, just because not doing so is 'unfair'. Sorry if I have little sympathy when things don't go the way you want when you are actively ruining my experience of the game.
Playing the game in a normal capacity isn't ruining your experience, you guys really need to understand this. I've lost loot before too, you know what thought never crossed my mind?" "I sure didn't have fun." Did you ever play sports as a kid? Was the other team ruining your experience when they scored points or goals? No? When it comes to a game, there will always be aspects of a victor and loser. You can't win every time, and can you honestly say that zero fun occured?
You bought a game that gave us cannons and the ability to steal from each other, it should come as no surprise people do just that. If you don't want to waste time, then scuttle. Admit defeat, its ok to lose, the problem arises when you go above and beyond to ensure no one wins. Are you the kind of kid who grabs the ball and yeets it off the field out of anger of a soon to be loss? Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.
Earlier you stated you surrendered, what does that mean to you, and what is the outcome?
Complaining about how other players choose to use the freedom in this game is the same as them complaining about how you choose to use the freedom of this game.
They would apparently rather sink in the Red Sea than let you have whatever scenario that you seek, and you would rather hunt them than let them have whatever scenario that they seek. You both have that choice. That's how it works. You can leave them be, or you can catch them. If you can't do either, it's not their fault.I can't imagine I'd ever run into the Red Sea, but it's totally fair game, hehe. Anything beyond toxicity and whatever line of decency the game overlords and community deem appropriate are part of the freedom to choose how you play and interact within this game.
PvP is great fun, but I - personally - don't need to engage with it with others who really don't want to. That's just MY choice though. If I see treasure I really want, or there's some commendations at stake, or if I just want to for whatever reason, I may engage anyway - but I think it's a healthy perspective to take on the game - we're all just people playing a game, trying to have the fun we're after for that session. Nothing WRONG with attacking anyone and everyone, but there's also nothing wrong with letting others be, if you can manage yourself to do it.
Regardless, for every complaint of people running, refusing to fight, scuttling, sailing into the Red Sea, we have the opposite side of the coin complaining about people engaging them in PvP. You're both part of that same coin. No need to complain. Go and have fun. ;)
Just my two coins!
@electricknights you do understand that these are the same people begging for private servers that so many people were against.
@nabberwar said in Red Sea Runners?:
Too many people seem to like to arguing its a Pirate game when it suits them.
Indeed.
Just like people like to argue about dignity and honor when it suits them. The tipping point is if it's just in the game or if it crosses the line into personal attacks.
If it's acceptable to lie, sneak, and backstab in pursuit of gold, then I don't see why it's not acceptable to sink yer booty out of spite. Stealing gold doesn't hurt the other player, so denying them gold doesn't either.
It may be underhanded and petty, but it seems like it fits with the game's atmosphere just fine to me. =)
If we're comparing to Monopoly...
Red sea runs are like intentionally mortgaging all your property and then walking away.
You can't "flip the board" in SoT any ways. (Not unless you rent a private server) Red sea runs are a valid tactic you don't like. Calling someone who uses it a sore loser is like the pot calling the kettle black...
@pithyrumble said in Red Sea Runners?:
If we're comparing to Monopoly...
Red sea runs are like intentionally mortgaging all your property and then walking away.
You can't "flip the board" in SoT any ways. (Not unless you rent a private server) Red sea runs are a valid tactic you don't like. Calling someone who uses it a sore loser is like the pot calling the kettle black...
I see it more as equivalent to playing to a stalemate in chess.
If you can't catch them by the time they red zone, you are at fault for chasing them into it.
This mindset is stupid, no on can force a ship to go into the Red with the only exclusion being taking physical control of the ship. If they went into the Red, they made the tangible decision to steer their ship in that direction. Running a ship into the Red is neither difficult, nor time consuming. Its poor sportsmanship found amongst sore losers, plain and simple.
Ya'll need to stop defending this. At the end of the day, this is all in good fun, stealth, stealing, and battles comes with the territory of the game. To do tactics that makes sure no one wins is just pathetic.
If you can't catch me by the time I've hit the red zone, you wouldn't catch me if the map was infinite. Don't blame us for having a valid strategy. Just because you are a better player, have more resources, have more people or a faster ship, does not mean my loot is your loot! You have lost touch with stealth or the ability to disable my ship and allowed my ship to sail away from yours. The fault is not on me taking my loot to the red sea, the fault is on you making me take my loot to the red sea. You have given me a choice on who gets my loot. I'd rather send my treasure to Davy Jones' locker than let you have it! Don't like it? Stop following me and become more strategic.
@triheadedmonkey said in Red Sea Runners?:
@nabberwar People who can't catch me for an hour+ before I go into the Shroud/scuttle my empty ship wouldn't deserve the loot they think I may have ;)
Change my mind :P
Equally, if you cant sink them and have to resort to running, why do you deserve the loot you may have.
Because you dont either if you dump it.
Just saying.
@troubled-cells said in Red Sea Runners?:
@triheadedmonkey said in Red Sea Runners?:
@nabberwar People who can't catch me for an hour+ before I go into the Shroud/scuttle my empty ship wouldn't deserve the loot they think I may have ;)
Change my mind :P
Equally, if you cant sink them and have to resort to running, why do you deserve the loot you may have.
Because you dont either if you dump it.
Just saying.
That doesn't mean I have to let you have it either...
@troubled-cells said in Red Sea Runners?:
why do you deserve the loot you may have.
Deserve the loot?
Are we still talking about pirates?
@pithyrumble said in Red Sea Runners?:
@troubled-cells said in Red Sea Runners?:
@triheadedmonkey said in Red Sea Runners?:
@nabberwar People who can't catch me for an hour+ before I go into the Shroud/scuttle my empty ship wouldn't deserve the loot they think I may have ;)
Change my mind :P
Equally, if you cant sink them and have to resort to running, why do you deserve the loot you may have.
Because you dont either if you dump it.
Just saying.
That doesn't mean I have to let you have it either...
I'm not implying that lol.
If you ain't contesting it, you aint getting it.
And clearly didnt deserve it in the first place.
Ultimately red sea runners are wasting more time than the people contesting them.
Imagine doing all that questing, fishing etc, only to be chased and throw it all in the bin.
I mean at least be clever enough to use the wind to your advantage and drop at outposts whilst giving them the run around.
It's not exactly rocket science to pull off.