Rebalancing Emissary values.

@reverend-toast no reason to nerf Reaper just because everyone wants to run them for the increased gold. Good crews will profit, bad crews will get hunted and sink more than normal and hopefully learn that the faction is meant to be a challenge.

Also the way to balance alliance servers from abusing the faction is simple. You reduce or remove the shared magical gold that gets handed to all other crews who didn't turn the item in. You don't address the object used, you address the root cause.

@kommodoreyenser the root problem is the fact that reapers profit from anything, whereas other Emissaries only benefit from specific loot. so the earnings gap between treaters and other Emissaries is staggering. I don't think the idea of " reapers are a challenge, so they should get paid more" pans out in actual play, since a vast majority of players in normal play would sooner just avoid reaper ships like the plague. the reaper faction also is supposed to be the pvp faction, so they should not be a faction that encourages pve.

So my solution to these two is this:

rather than nerfing the reaper payout, or installing a " stolen loot" bonus because there are complicated mechanics behind that, bring the other Emissaries up. but let them be more specialized. Reapers can cap at 2.5x for everything, but let other Emissaries be 3.0x for their loot, and 2.0x for everything else EXCEPT Emissar Flags and Reaper Items. those would still not benefit from emissary bonuses unless you are a reaper. this would increase the gold earned value of other Emissaries to be comparable, with reapers still being unique for being consistent across loot types, and the only faction to get emissary bonuses for flags /map marked cursed Chests, aka items that encourage pvp. it would even things out more, at least soften the blow for how gold bereft Athena Emissaries are, and let Reapers still keep their unique emissary bonuses.

makes sense from a lore standpoint too, like imagine being a gold hoarder emissary but you turn in a load of skulls to the order. So the hoarders go. " That doesn't really help our goals, but it makes us look really good to the other trading companies and brings us clout so well pay you a little extra on top of what they paid you." but none of the normal trading companies are going to pay for you to sell to the reapers, because the reapers stand against the way of life of the Sea of thieves.

@p0g1f0rc3 said in Rebalancing Emissary values.:

@kommodoreyenser the root problem is the fact that reapers profit from anything, whereas other Emissaries only benefit from specific loot. so the earnings gap between treaters and other Emissaries is staggering. I don't think the idea of " reapers are a challenge, so they should get paid more" pans out in actual play, since a vast majority of players in normal play would sooner just avoid reaper ships like the plague. the reaper faction also is supposed to be the pvp faction, so they should not be a faction that encourages pve.

So my solution to these two is this:

rather than nerfing the reaper payout, or installing a " stolen loot" bonus because there are complicated mechanics behind that, bring the other Emissaries up. but let them be more specialized. Reapers can cap at 2.5x for everything, but let other Emissaries be 3.0x for their loot, and 2.0x for everything else EXCEPT Emissar Flags and Reaper Items. those would still not benefit from emissary bonuses unless you are a reaper. this would increase the gold earned value of other Emissaries to be comparable, with reapers still being unique for being consistent across loot types, and the only faction to get emissary bonuses for flags /map marked cursed Chests, aka items that encourage pvp. it would even things out more, at least soften the blow for how gold bereft Athena Emissaries are, and let Reapers still keep their unique emissary bonuses.

makes sense from a lore standpoint too, like imagine being a gold hoarder emissary but you turn in a load of skulls to the order. So the hoarders go. " That doesn't really help our goals, but it makes us look really good to the other trading companies and brings us clout so well pay you a little extra on top of what they paid you." but none of the normal trading companies are going to pay for you to sell to the reapers, because the reapers stand against the way of life of the Sea of thieves.

Explain to me how being marked on the map the entire play session doesn't increase the challenge of staying afloat vs lets say a merchant emissary? Athena and Reaper are the two most hunted emissary ships in the game. Full stop. You cannot tell me any different. I see it nearly every play session from one side of the story or the other.

@kommodoreyenser Because for as many ships are hunting Athenas or Reapers, there are far more players that are actively avoiding Reaper ships. I have heard players testify that they raise reapers because it seems to be more likely mean they will be left alone. Meanwhile, Athenas is hunted by everyone, including Reapers, and other Athenas. Yet they get the least amount of value for their emissary in the current system. Sure, Gold Hoarders, Order of Souls, Merchant Alliance may not be marked on the map to MOST people, but Reaper 5s can see them. And they only get paid extra for a limited subset of the loot. They aren't actively avoided by other non reaper players the way Reapers are, in fact sometimes a Gold hoarder will kill another gold hoarder for their loot, or their flag. You're acting like raising anything other than Reapers isn't a risk when it absolutely is, and doesn't pay out nearly as much. Keep in mind too, I'm not asking for a nerf to Reapers. I'm asking for a buff to other emissaries, especially Athenas which seem to be both the most hunted and the least rewarding. I'm not taking ANYTHING away from you. So why do you have a problem with me asking for the rest of us to get some of the pie too?

@p0g1f0rc3 said in Rebalancing Emissary values.:

@kommodoreyenser Because for as many ships are hunting Athenas or Reapers, there are far more players that are actively avoiding Reaper ships. I have heard players testify that they raise reapers because it seems to be more likely mean they will be left alone. Meanwhile, Athenas is hunted by everyone, including Reapers, and other Athenas. Yet they get the least amount of value for their emissary in the current system. Sure, Gold Hoarders, Order of Souls, Merchant Alliance may not be marked on the map to MOST people, but Reaper 5s can see them. And they only get paid extra for a limited subset of the loot. They aren't actively avoided by other non reaper players the way Reapers are, in fact sometimes a Gold hoarder will kill another gold hoarder for their loot, or their flag. You're acting like raising anything other than Reapers isn't a risk when it absolutely is, and doesn't pay out nearly as much. Keep in mind too, I'm not asking for a nerf to Reapers. I'm asking for a buff to other emissaries, especially Athenas which seem to be both the most hunted and the least rewarding. I'm not taking ANYTHING away from you. So why do you have a problem with me asking for the rest of us to get some of the pie too?

My issue is that it is already too easy for other emissary ships to avoid risk in a system that is supposed to have it. That is the flip side of any bonus you get, grade 2-5, with ANY of the factions. I jumped on the emissary system from the beginning of it and you know how many times I have been attacked and sunk while flying each one? I can count on one hand each faction, except one. Reapers. Now as a 80% solo player, you may think "oh well you shouldn't reap solo" Most of the time I was actually the aggressor. Yet most of the times I sank, I was trying to mind my own business, grinding world events to level up, and a galleon hops into the server to come grab that grade 4-5 flag with none of their own raised.

They have already nerf'd Reapers 2x within the first few weeks of the faction. Would you like to completely kill them off like what happened to the merchant trade routes?

If your issue is with some loot doesn't get a boost, then are you not doing the specific faction voyages? Everything on those voyages should give you a boost. Picking up random trash loot along the way that doesn't match your emissary? Stop doing that, it's a waste of time and therefore a waste of gaining gold faster, since that seems to be the main concern.

@kommodoreyenser 95% of loot from Athena voyage still does not sell to the Athena representative, and therefore does not benefit from Emissaries. That's the really big one right there. It also feels a bit absurd to tell people to "just not pick up loot." If I'm sailing to my Voyage, and I get attacked by a Meg, or a skelly ship, and I complete that encounter, as Gold Hoarder are you telling me to just leave all the skulls and commodity crates in the water? I'm supposed to leave at least half of my rewards for engaging with that content, which by the way DOES reward Gold Hoarder emissary grade, in the water to not sell because I can't get emissary bonus gold from it? As a Merchant Emissary if I happen to stumble upon an Ashen Captain's Chest on the island where I have to deliver my cargo, I should just leave it there? If I'm doing Order of Souls and there's like three Golden relics on the beach and a crate of precious minerals on the island where my hunt voyage is, I'm supposed to just leave them there? When I'm OoS and I kill an island captain, pick up his captains notes, you're telling me I'm not supposed to go dig up what could be a cursed chest, or a Humble Gift, because it's not a skull? You're telling me that I should limit my engagement with the game based on what emissary flag I have raised? When Reapers absolutely don't have to? That's absurd.

Meanwhile Reapers benefit from literally anything and everything both for Grade AND for pay out, are the ONLY ones that get bonuses for Reaper Chests, Gifts, Bilge Rat items, Ashen Chests. You admitted yourself a majority of the time when it came to ship v ship combat, you CHOSE that engagement. 100% of the time I sank flying non reaper emissaries, I did not choose that fight. Reapers mostly, but also other emissaries chose it for me. All I'm asking is for non reaper emissaries to get SOMETHING for the bit of loot they pick up other than what goes to their emissary representative. Reapers is over represented because when it comes to risk versus reward, it's heavily skewed in Reaper's favor.

@p0g1f0rc3 said in Rebalancing Emissary values.:

@kommodoreyenser 95% of loot from Athena voyage still does not sell to the Athena representative, and therefore does not benefit from Emissaries. That's the really big one right there. It also feels a bit absurd to tell people to "just not pick up loot." If I'm sailing to my Voyage, and I get attacked by a Meg, or a skelly ship, and I complete that encounter, as Gold Hoarder are you telling me to just leave all the skulls and commodity crates in the water? I'm supposed to leave at least half of my rewards for engaging with that content, which by the way DOES reward Gold Hoarder emissary grade, in the water to not sell because I can't get emissary bonus gold from it? As a Merchant Emissary if I happen to stumble upon an Ashen Captain's Chest on the island where I have to deliver my cargo, I should just leave it there? If I'm doing Order of Souls and there's like three Golden relics on the beach and a crate of precious minerals on the island where my hunt voyage is, I'm supposed to just leave them there? When I'm OoS and I kill an island captain, pick up his captains notes, you're telling me I'm not supposed to go dig up what could be a cursed chest, or a Humble Gift, because it's not a skull? You're telling me that I should limit my engagement with the game based on what emissary flag I have raised? When Reapers absolutely don't have to? That's absurd.

What I am saying is if you are a solo, it greatly reduces your time on the waves with loot to lose. So yes, it’s valuable in gaining more faster as a solo when you have to transport each piece back to your ship and then again to sell.

Meanwhile Reapers benefit from literally anything and everything both for Grade AND for pay out, are the ONLY ones that get bonuses for Reaper Chests, Gifts, Bilge Rat items, Ashen Chests. You admitted yourself a majority of the time when it came to ship v ship combat, you CHOSE that engagement. 100% of the time I sank flying non reaper emissaries, I did not choose that fight. Reapers mostly, but also other emissaries chose it for me. All I'm asking is for non reaper emissaries to get SOMETHING for the bit of loot they pick up other than what goes to their emissary representative. Reapers is over represented because when it comes to risk versus reward, it's heavily skewed in Reaper's favor.

Reapers benefit far less from farmed loot than you think. 1/2 flag grade gain and 1/4 of the rep gain for farmed loot vs stolen.

@kommodoreyenser I reject the idea that as an emissary I am supposed to abandon loot I find just because it's not 'optimal', especially if that loot helps with commendations or something else. I should not be hemmed into a box on how to play the game just because of my emissary flag, not when it's a pirate game about getting loot, that promotes "play your way" mentality. Reapers still benefit from everything. Whereas other emissaries get ZERO grade and ZERO bonus rep for anything that pick up that's not a chest or treasure for Gold Hoarder, not a crate for Merchant Alliance, and not a Skull for Order of Souls. Forget Athena's Fortune, which rewards next to nothing. When you can do an entire Athena voyage, which takes HOURS, and can get to MAYBE grade 3, with all of maybe 2 to 3 items you can sell for reputation and bonus gold. WHILE flying the flag that everyone and their mother hunts for, with the only way to 'quickly' raise Athena rep and grade being engaging with some of the riskiest content, because it attracts everybody. AKA the FoF and FotD. There's a reason why the Athena Emissary is one of the ledgers that I still don't have all the rewards for. It's too much risk, not enough reward.

@p0g1f0rc3 said in Rebalancing Emissary values.:

@kommodoreyenser I reject the idea that as an emissary I am supposed to abandon loot I find just because it's not 'optimal', especially if that loot helps with commendations or something else. I should not be hemmed into a box on how to play the game just because of my emissary flag, not when it's a pirate game about getting loot, that promotes "play your way" mentality. Reapers still benefit from everything. Whereas other emissaries get ZERO grade and ZERO bonus rep for anything that pick up that's not a chest or treasure for Gold Hoarder, not a crate for Merchant Alliance, and not a Skull for Order of Souls. Forget Athena's Fortune, which rewards next to nothing. When you can do an entire Athena voyage, which takes HOURS, and can get to MAYBE grade 3, with all of maybe 2 to 3 items you can sell for reputation and bonus gold. WHILE flying the flag that everyone and their mother hunts for, with the only way to 'quickly' raise Athena rep and grade being engaging with some of the riskiest content, because it attracts everybody. AKA the FoF and FotD. There's a reason why the Athena Emissary is one of the ledgers that I still don't have all the rewards for. It's too much risk, not enough reward.

You are speaking to the wrong person then. I have no problem min-maxing in a video game, was maxed in all factions but reapers just a few weeks after the expansion, and get ledger rewards easily the first month each quarter despite playing solo and under 20 hours a month on average these days.

Hell the merchant ledger alone takes less than 1 hour game time to lock in each time. Athena is the longest as you said but still only usually takes me 1.5 thieves runs plus one grade 5 voyage. I am on your side though about more Athena loot in Athena voyages.