Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement

  • In the spirit and agreement of the Insider NDA, this post is devoid from anything currently placed, shared and mentioned exclusively in Insider. This post is aimed to talk about the current concept of Insider itself, and not its current content that is not in the live game yet.

    For more than 3 years already, the Insider servers have been accompanied by the base game, in order to provide an open space with the developers to relay update playtesting with the community. I do not know whether this access used to be disclosed earlier, but in current day, this access is practically public.

    What is strange about this 'Public' access, however, is that the Insider servers even to this day, are covered with a NDA (a Non-Disclosure Agreement, a written word/agreement that you do not share the contents of a specific platform to anyone else). From what we know in practice with literally any other game that has a separate 'beta' server for testing... 'NDA' does not go through the same door with 'public', in fact it contradicts each other as one states 'exclusivity/secrecy', but the other literally states 'open access'.

    The fact is; people always talk. When an NDA is in place, we'd expect that people who even share the littlest things. But when there's a massive public that has access to it without having anything to do for it (other than registering and downloading the game), that information is in no manner controllable unless someone is dumb enough to share a literal screenshot with their name stamped on it, and someone else forwards that. Which in reality, happens even less so than you encountering a Shrouded ghost.

    For a few seasons too now (or at least, to what I saw getting to know this game), content creators have also been using these servers to constantly make videos about content that was on the server. When Sirens were added during season 1 (released in Season 3), people have been making mad 'theories' about sirens surfacing, long before Rare ever shared the very first teasers in game (with Duke) or on Twitter (the skeletal runes). This then became followed by people rallying an 'open idea' for purchaseable resources... which also, was there during Season 1 (released in season 2). This likewise was done with the Sunken Shrines for Season 4, with people going crazy about theories on 'The ancients', and is now done again with Rare's recently shared teaser on Twitter. I even had someone spoil the fact the FoF was arriving in season 2 before I even knew about Insider.

    Ergo, the literal people that are supposed to promote the game, are breaking the NDA by sharing bits of what is about to come, all under the guise of something being a 'mad game theory'. 'Would be cool if they did that'. This on itself isn't wrong. But it is when the people that provide this platform, tell everyone to hush about it. They also want the server to both act and function as a platform for people to deliver feedback, and/or test the provided content. But that doesn't go well when people in a likewise fashion, are told to hush about it.

    The "public" is too big for an environment to control information distribution on. Especially when many players aren't even bothered to rat out distributors of it, or want to use that information as an advantage to get planned videos or 'game theory' videos out to boost their social media / community presence. Get rid of the 'secrecy' aspect of it. You want people to talk. You want people to share thoughts and opinions. You want to involve as many people you can to test something. You want players to share what amazing or integral updates the game has to bring soon. None of these key notes that a PBE (Public Beta Environment) needs, endorses the application of an NDA. An NDA belongs to an environment where you as developer personally invite people to, and where you expect them to relay findings to you directly. Insider's just isn't that, because everyone (except those who are excluded/banned) already can find and access it. And it's already been shown to us that really 'surprising' content, can be kept a surprise on both our and the developper's end, as we've seen with A Pirate's Life.

    TL;DR: I think excluding information from Insider has become a rudimentary and contradictionary concept, in the perspective from who can access it and who Rare tries to aim for both providing feedback and promoting their game with it. The aimed concept of 'content being tested by players' would revolve much healthier in a normal/traditional Public Beta Environment.

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  • Why does it matter? Public can join if they want to see what's in there, Rare just doesn't want video and screens of it in public.

    Not a big deal.

  • So what are you suggesting?
    That they simply kick off the current insiders and replace them with new ones, throw away the whole system they kept for so long?
    As far as I'm concerned it's their game and if they got a problem like this they would've addressed it already. Am I saying that Insider's NDA is perfect? No, it's absolutely broken.
    But at this point you're better off just going with the flow and hell if you got some european teenager who wants to spoil himself with unfinished content on sot by signing up for the program then I say let it be.

  • @d3adst1ck except that people ARE already doing that very thing. Just not in the literal game-footage sense.

    You could say "oh, that criminal, that should be acted upon!" but... yes, what does it matter? Why does that need to be endorsed secrecy if it is that very thing that livens up the game? Why tell people that something is a secret you'd need to sign an agreement on, when it's not a big deal?

  • @lovelocc If you had read the post, I said/suggested to just get rid of the secrecy / NDA. Embrace people openly brainstorming, talking and hyping about content that Rare has given the okay for for people to publicly playtest. I'm not saying 'secret should remain secret', I say the literal opposite of that.

  • @kapitein-kater So you're basically saying that the only barrer that holds some player's hype is to be destroyed. That's not better in all honesty

  • @kapitein-kater said in Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement:

    Why does that need to be endorsed secrecy if it is that very thing that livens up the game?

    Because it boosts player numbers when they release it? There is nothing that points towards the NDA being lifted somehow "livening up the game". In fact, the opposite is probably true. The best example of this is A Pirate's Life, which was a complete secret from everyone. A large number of new and old players logged in when that content dropped to check it out, because no one had any idea it was coming.

  • @lovelocc said in Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement:

    @kapitein-kater So you're basically saying that the only barrer that holds some player's hype is to be destroyed. That's not better in all honesty

    Except that people are already doing exactly that, so literally any hype that future updates have, is already being shared. Just not using literal footage from it made by them.

    And we've also already seen with Season 3 - A pirate's life, that actual big content that Rare DOESN'T want to have shared, is kept close to them. We've had no information at all about Season 3 at all, except for Duke's adventure in the game updates itself, and the 'server/instance hopping' portal stress-test.

  • @kapitein-kater You don't realize what you're saying.

    Breaking this unique barrer includes mixing up those two groups of players, the ones who share Insider content with each other with the ones who don't. If I wasn't an Insider I know that I'd want to keep the full surprise and hype of the update, and not get spoiled 3 month before it's release and have all my hyped messed up when it is released, thanks a lot for the spoil lad!

  • I'm not a part of it and I don't wanna see it till it's ready and out the oven. I don't even like the teaser stuff I just wanna see what happens and go from there.

    Personally I'd rather them keep whatever thing they have going on. The less I know the better.

  • @d3adst1ck Not at all. The FoF and the Shrines were dead after a few weeks because virtually everyone already knew about it (With the shrines maybe hardly lasting a single one). They were extremely hard to playtest too because the PBE just did not reflect the kind of popularity to actually reflect how easy/hard, practical/impractical it was. Even worse example; nobody even remembers or does merchant trades at this point.

    These 3 were all content hidden in the 'NDA' concept, but you can see how well that aged. Agreeable, without an NDA that doesn't make a difference... so why does it need an NDA then?

  • @kapitein-kater a dit dans Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement :

    @d3adst1ck Not at all. The FoF and the Shrines were dead after a few weeks because virtually everyone already knew about it. Nobody even remembers or does merchant trades at this point. These 3 were all content hidden in the 'NDA' concept, but you can see how well that aged. Agreeable, without an NDA that doesn't make a difference... so why does it need an NDA then?

    Because if you tell players what the next update is going to be before, then they get hyped and excited about the future content but then when the actual update comes they already got hyped about it and there is no more excitment.
    You're basically suggesting that players get hyped without actually being able to enjoy the content before a month or three.

  • @lovelocc To which I already told you; that is already being done. That 'hype kill' effect is already seen. With or without NDA.

  • @kapitein-kater said in Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement:

    @d3adst1ck Not at all. The FoF and the Shrines were dead after a few weeks because virtually everyone already knew about it. Nobody even remembers or does merchant trades at this point. These 3 were all content hidden in the 'NDA' concept, but you can see how well that aged. Agreeable, without an NDA that doesn't make a difference... so why does it need an NDA then?

    commodities are dead because they nerfed them to death

    FoF isn't often done because that much time for that much danger isn't worth it to a lot of people. The key is marked which isn't balanced danger and people find other ways to do things without the stress.

    shrines are just casual fun and after people get their commendations they move on

    nothing to do with anything nda related

  • @kapitein-kater a dit dans Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement :

    @lovelocc To which I already told you; that is already being done. That 'hype kill' effect is already seen. With or without NDA.

    To which I already told you don't mix up those groups, cause otherwise you'd be spoiling the other half of the community that doesn't want to know about it

  • @lovelocc Those groups won't be mixed at all. People who don't want to know about it already knows how to avoid people that to this day are actively broadcasting it. So what difference is the whole secrecy going to be if people literally already talk?

    Say, Rare decides to revert/restore FOTD back to Old Boot Fort... what's gonna stop literally anyone this day from telling you, either directly, or in a video you may come across in your feed? And how will that be different without it?

  • @kapitein-kater said in Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement:

    The FoF and the Shrines were dead after a few weeks because virtually everyone already knew about it

    You kind of buried your own argument there.

  • @d3adst1ck No, that is stating that your argument, that 'the hype will dwindle down over people already knowing it', is already an observable fact. People are already aware of the content coming in the live game even with an NDA, either from them playing on the Insiders, or through any social media platform that deals with SoT.

  • @kapitein-kater If there is no barrer then everybody's just gonna be sharing insider content with each other and therefore spoiling the part of the community that doesn't want to know about it.
    People won't know how to avoid it since it'll be absolutely everywhere, if you keep it like this where you at least have a reason not to break NDA then it'll actually remain tough to find NDA breaches as it is already enough today.

    What stops you from being told this is NDA my guy, the punishment that follows it and the fact that it will be deleted.

  • @lovelocc Okay. Who will delete my youtube video? Who will Rare punish if there literally is no ingame name / ID attached to leaked information? You're talking as if leaked information is trackable and that all its platforms are under Rare's control.

  • @kapitein-kater a dit dans Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement :

    @d3adst1ck No, that is stating that your argument, that 'the hype will dwindle down over people already knowing it', is already an observable fact. People are already aware of the content coming in the live game even with an NDA, either from them playing on the Insiders, or through any social media platform that deals with SoT.

    So instead of having hype slowly declining you want the community to be hyped about content that isn't already here and not be hyped at all about it when it actually comes out

  • @lovelocc If rare wants to build hype or keep an update hidden from public sharing... they already know and have shown us how to do that. We're talking about PUBLIC PLAYTEST MATERIAL. Stuff that Rare literally has already given THEIR okay on that players may end up being spoiled from knowing it before it releases in the live game.

  • @kapitein-kater Those usually don't get shared nor popularized, so if you wanna find those you really need to look it up and to be seeking for that spoil

  • @kapitein-kater a dit dans Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement :

    @lovelocc If rare wants to build hype or keep an update hidden from public sharing... they already know and have shown us how to do that.

    Please specify

  • @lovelocc Really? You want me to adress the elephant in the room? A pirate's life? Or maybe a smaller or integral update Rare didn't public-test, like the removal of fast-bucketing/shoveling? The extended ledger rewards?

  • @kapitein-kater Do I have to remind you the amount of patches they needed to do for this?
    If you want every update to be like this then you're basically asking for the whole removal of Insider's purpose.

  • @kapitein-kater said in Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement:

    @d3adst1ck No, that is stating that your argument, that 'the hype will dwindle down over people already knowing it', is already an observable fact. People are already aware of the content coming in the live game even with an NDA, either from them playing on the Insiders, or through any social media platform that deals with SoT.

    You wrote:

    Why does that need to be endorsed secrecy if it is that very thing that livens up the game?

    Then you wrote:

    The FoF and the Shrines were dead after a few weeks because virtually everyone already knew about it.

    You directly contradicted yourself. Barely functioning secrecy killed the hype for the FoF and Shrines so somehow no secrecy at all will somehow improve the situation? Doubtful.

    I don't think there is anything else to add here, and it's unlikely that Rare is going to drop the NDA.

  • @lovelocc If you're thinking that a secret environment is Insider's purpose... I think you might want to look up again what the definition is of a testing server. An NDA is not a core aspect of a PBE.

  • @kapitein-kater Oh no you're not discussing the secrecy anymore at this point, what you're suggesting is that since what ur suggesting isn't building hype, that they do what they did for a pirate's life for every update.

    If I actually need to remind you what Insider is for it's for community feedback, if you make sure that the future update isn't accessible by any player like they did for a pirate's life then there cannot be any feedback.
    Therefore no purpose for insider, see where I'm going with this?

  • @d3adst1ck Neither FoF or Shrines had the amount of public attention that it NEEDED for it to be properly tested. FoF was (and still is) too grindy and neigh-impossible to do with 3 or less players. Shrines in the PBE in no way reflected the threat that came with leaving your ship for extended amounts of time. They were under the guise of an NDA so nobody could actively broadcast to actually TEST this content in the way it needed. Which, without an NDA, would actually achieve the amount of attention it needs before it's ready for release in the real game, and not need a later fix (like merchant commodities) or be so daunting/impractical it just dies out of interest (like FoF/Shrines).

  • @kapitein-kater a dit dans Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement :

    @d3adst1ck Neither FoF or Shrines had the amount of public attention that it NEEDED for it to be properly tested. FoF was (and still is) too grindy and neigh-impossible to do with 3 or less players. Shrines in the PBE in no way reflected the threat that came with leaving your ship for extended amounts of time. They were under the guise of an NDA so nobody could actively broadcast to actually TEST this content in the way it needed. Which, without an NDA, would actually achieve the amount of attention it needs before it's ready for release in the real game, and not need a later fix (like merchant commodities) or be so daunting/impractical it just dies out of interest (like FoF/Shrines).

    I'm sorry, what exactly do you know about the attention it's received and the attention the devs wanted it to have? Could you have any support that could show you were actually able to compare those and didn't just have a feeling it didn't received what is deserved?

  • @lovelocc said in Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement:

    If I actually need to remind you what Insider is for it's for community feedback.

    Please read that again, but slowly.

  • @lovelocc said in Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement:

    @kapitein-kater a dit dans Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement :
    Could you have any support that could show you were actually able to compare those and didn't just have a feeling it didn't received what is deserved?

    When was the first, last or best time you ever had the opportunity to ACTUALLY play-test a FoF, and not be stumbled by the fact it was horrendous to do with smaller sized crews?

  • @kapitein-kater said in Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement:

    @d3adst1ck Neither FoF or Shrines had the amount of public attention that it NEEDED for it to be properly tested. FoF was (and still is) too grindy and neigh-impossible to do with 3 or less players. Shrines in the PBE in no way reflected the threat that came with leaving your ship for extended amounts of time. They were under the guise of an NDA so nobody could actively broadcast to actually TEST this content in the way it needed. Which, without an NDA, would actually achieve the amount of attention it needs before it's ready for release in the real game, and not need a later fix (like merchant commodities) or be so daunting/impractical it just dies out of interest (like FoF/Shrines).

    FoF is entirely possible to do solo. The unattended ship thing was brought up during testing for the Shrines.

    A lot of issues that are in content in the live game are brought up during testing, but are not able to be fixed in time or just ignored. The insider builds are fully accessible to the public, so if someone feels like content isn't getting tested enough they can sign up and contribute. Having an NDA or not isn't going to magically improve public testing.

  • @kapitein-kater a dit dans Let's talk serious - Insider and it's Non-Disclosure Agreement :

    Please read that again, but slowly.

    I'll give you that, that doesn't excuse my previous points tho

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