About Buried Treasure & Maps

  • Based on the number of AI generated treasure maps I see on boards, it looks like this new feature isn't terribly popular, as some feared. Which is a shame, as it's something I've been wanting to do since day one.

    Still, I can see why: people can just bury whichever worthless trinket or empty box they have, perhaps even a random item that was lying around on the same beach a second before, then create a map to post somewhere in order to get an achievement, and move on. And why would anyone go through the trouble of digging for treasure when you can just stumble upon the same stuff floating around anywhere as you sail?

    So I was wondering, how exactly do these maps work? I heard they last a limited time, after which they're replaced. But is there any way the game can prioritize the ones that lead to actual interesting loot?

    Meaning, if I bury a Chest of Ancient Tributes or Ashen Winds Skull, it'd be nice if the map leading to them would last longer on the board than, say, somebody's who just hid a half empty box of fireworks or a randomly generated stash. There's the possibility you may still pick up an underwhelming map, but at least there'd be a higher chance of finding things worth your while.

    I suppose a larger, more in depth conversation could be had here, with maps leading to other maps with more than just an X spot, which in turn could lead people from one place to another in order to do specific things, creating little unique quests and such. But for now, I think the question is how to give players a reason to even invest any time at all searching for buried treasure, when the game also offers lots of easier, more fun alternatives to find better loot.

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  • @liberance said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    […] how exactly do these maps work? I heard they last a limited time, after which they're replaced.

    As far as I am aware, Player Generated Maps stay up indefinitely- only to be removed by a crew that claims them from the board and digs all items, or when a server shuts down.

    A. You are awarded Renown for each item dug up, and are awarded Reputation only when an item is sold. If that crew reburies one of your items, you do not earn reputation when it’s eventually sold by another Crew in the future.

    B. If the server shuts down, you are automatically awarded a small percentage of Renown and Reputation for your trouble.

  • @liberance said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    But for now, I think the question is how to give players a reason to even invest any time at all searching for buried treasure

    I haven't seen a player map on the board other than the first day of the update...So, there's another, very important question that needs answered as well: How do we give players a reason to bury treasure and post the map?

    I'm guessing a lot of players have the same concerns about it that I do.
    -1) If I have to end my session at the outpost to post the map to the quest board...why wouldn't I just turn the loot in myself?
    -2) If I'm trying to climb the Emissary Ledger board, why wouldn't I just turn the loot in myself?
    -3) If I'm max level...why would I post a map and at best get some renown? And for those of us at Lvl 100 for the season, we literally get nothing.

    So...how can we get players to post maps... quality maps?

    For the first concern, I totally and completely understand why they made it so you have to go to the outpost (or seapost) to post the map. That said, I feel it would gain a lot more traction if you could post from your ship. Maybe you have a carrier pigeon come and take the maps. Maybe you give pets a purpose and have them deliver the map bundle. Lots of ways to make it work. Building in a delay and cool-down is key here so that pirates can't use it as some sort of "keep-away" tactic.

    For the second concern...Since we're not getting gold for the loot that we bury, why not give us whatever Ledger value we would have otherwise gotten? Gems probably complicate things a little, but I'd say just make it go towards a random Ledger.

    For the third concern...I'm at a bit of a loss. Max players don't get gold, rep, ledger value, or renown if they're also maxed for the season. What would incentivize this type of player to bury treasure? If Rare introduced a prestige system to the game, we'd sure have a reason to bury loot and gain reputation again. Outside of that, I'm not sure how to incentivize maxed out players to get involved with the quest board.

  • @sweetsandman said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    For the first concern, I totally and completely understand why they made it so you have to go to the outpost (or seapost) to post the map. That said, I feel it would gain a lot more traction if you could post from your ship.

    For the second concern...Since we're not getting gold for the loot that we bury, why not give us whatever Ledger value we would have otherwise gotten? Gems probably complicate things a little, but I'd say just make it go towards a random Ledger.

    For the third concern...I'm at a bit of a loss. Max players don't get gold, rep, ledger value, or renown if they're also maxed for the season. What would incentivize this type of player to bury treasure? If Rare introduced a prestige system to the game, we'd sure have a reason to bury loot and gain reputation again.

    I'd say the reason you can't post them from your ship is—other than immersion—because they can be stolen. So that's good as it is. However in order to be worth stealing they need to be something people want.

    Your second and third concern sound like the same general idea to me. The prestige suggestion is interesting. Like, make some players known for their valuable maps, sort of like an eBay seller rating. The obvious downside of this is that it could become an elitist system, and eventually make it harder for newcomers to break in. But how do you counter that without suggesting what might be hidden at all? Not sure. I for one want to experiment with the maps to see if there's anything I can do to make them stand out: location of the X, maybe draw a symbol. Anything that suggests that if I took the trouble to do that, what's in there may be better than just two gems and one half eaten pineapple in a box.

  • Just yesterday, I found 3 maps on the board by the same pirate - during my Gilded Athena voyage, which took me 8 hours to complete, my sloopmate and I also dug up these treasures and were awarded with additional Gold Hoarder trinkets, fireworks, and 3 half-full cannonball crates. The latter proved particularly useful as we were able to place 1 next to each cannon, including 1 in our newly acquired cannon rowboat - all of which we used to fend off and sink a chasing level 5 Reaper galleon that got stuck in the kraken's ink. 😅

  • Some players asked for the ability to bury treasure. It seemed unnecessary but now they have it. Rare added another layer to it with the ability to post and steal maps. Burying treasure wasn’t really needed to begin with. We don’t need to keep rolling it in more glitter in hopes of increasing interest. A few people wanted to bury thier treasure and now they can.

  • @liberance
    It's the Festival of Giving - experiences with buried treasures will be skewed by this: giving 5 things that will net you 5k gold per item is one less hoard to bury on an island.
    And also have to take into consideration crews who want their title, so 50 items give-away or getting it stolen and sold - that's items that are not getting buried.

    If all crews on the server take a look at the board every now and then, for each map there are 4 or 5 other crews interested.

    It takes time to gather some (worthwhile) loot, bury it and get it on a board on a Seapost or an Outpost.

    Some crews will only use it as an afterthought, post the maps at the end of the session. Certainly if they have maps which they wanted to dig up themselves again but lack the time.

    Maps can get stolen - crew might have several great maps to post and gets sunk - I don't think their opponent can post the maps, so they have to dig them up and bury again - they probably keep the best items if they bother at all.

  • @galactic-geek said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    Just yesterday, I found 3 maps on the board by the same pirate - during my Gilded Athena voyage, which took me 8 houts to complete, my sloopmate and I also dug up these treasures and were awarded with additional Gold Hoarder trinkets, fireworks, and 3 half-full cannonball crates. The latter proved particularly useful as we were able to place 1 next to each cannon, including 1 in our newly acquired cannon rowboat - all of which we used to fend off and sink a chasing level 5 Reaper galleon that got stuck in the kraken's ink. 😅

    I thought that R5 Galleon switched to following a brigantine instead 😉 or are you just really lucky in finding Reapers (or having Reapers finding you) ?

  • Festival of Giving definitely threw some water on it lol. That and a new season and new emissary cosmetics, willing to say most are turning in.

    I enjoy making buried treasure maps so I don't need a carrot to make them. Maybe if there was an immediate Renown increase when you post it so people don't feel like they're wasting time.

  • This new feature is not really popular because the loot is 95% trash. Castaway chests, 1 skull with 150 gold value.... Merchant crates...

    If you dig up 10 Maps on a row, you Will see that is not worth It to invest time on this new maps, because is just a waste of time, even jumping from One island to another is more lucrative than this maps.

    The vast majority of players just did commendations and left the new mechanic apart due to Troll loots and time wasting maps.

  • My idea to tinker with the maps is

    lower alliance server sharing from 50% to 25%
    create 75% gold sharing for burying treasure when it's dug up and sold for you (no emissary bonus justifies 75%)
    add a carrier bird system that can deliver maps to outposts

    that will make it appealing to people that steal a lot and produce a lot but are no longer focused on gold enough to travel for it
    but will gladly bury a few decent items to get the payout and move on to a new server or take a break

    This also will often lead to less abandoned treasure to sink when a battle leaves everyone shipless.
    someone can swim/row the valuable items an island to bury it and send the map to an outpost which I think makes the system much more appealing

    This system would create a gold sharing that makes more sense for the game rather than huge alliance payouts which is in no way consistent with the foundation of the game

    There also isn't any real cheese to this that would be significant.

  • @elci-poteh said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    This new feature is not really popular because the loot is 95% trash. Castaway chests, 1 skull with 150 gold value.... Merchant crates...

    If you dig up 10 Maps on a row, you Will see that is not worth It to invest time on this new maps, because is just a waste of time, even jumping from One island to another is more lucrative than this maps.

    The vast majority of players just did commendations and left the new mechanic apart due to Troll loots and time wasting maps.

    Your 10 maps in a row were probably mostly generated maps with only two x's - they are terrible generally and I would only use them if I'm going to the island anyway.

    I've dug up Ashen chests, Athena items, filled firework crates and other nice things along with silver goblets and foul skulls. Far more than 5%, so I still keep an eye out for player maps. I also bury nice things (villainous skulls, blue gems &c) next to low(er) grade things. As soon as these maps persists longer (i.e. the maps on a server that'll close will be put on another server) and have a bigger chance of actually being used, I'll up my loot as well.

  • @lem0n-curry

    I got the achievement last night, dig up buried items, I think at least 50 items. I can say without any doubt that 47 of that 50 items were just Fireworks crates, basic skulls or castaway chests. Only got 1 ancient bones crate and 1 athena grial, the rest was trash, the random captain that spawn on the island gave me more gold value than the map itself xD

    For that reason, I ended with the commendations and its over for me this mechanic. I buried a flameheart few days ago, hope the persons who found it had emissary flag up.

  • i dont see how you can improve the system. if you allow a carrier pigeon or whatever to sell your maps then why would anyone go around with loot on ships, just bury it where you get it and sell immediately with 0 risk. if you make selling it not worthwhile then the whole system goes back to its current pointless state. the system is flawed from a design perspective (feels like im saying this alot recently) it was destined to be ignored by players once achievements and commendations were got.

  • What most people above fail to realize. Everyone here is either PL or those with ton of gold.

    The whole bury of treasure is for low and newbie pirates who want any form of loot regardless of what it is. As well pick where you wanna dig them up. Instead of doing a voyage which may take your around islands you want to avoid.
    These maps provide players with choice to visit islands they like and dig up stuff.

    Older players and those who have just about anything. Won’t benefit from this system besides “Helping” others or placing a keg for giggles.

    Your Either burying/digging up treasure for sale of commendations.
    Or just to do something new. Myself. I have worthless treasure I dig up and bury on the spot.

  • @greatfailure82 said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    i dont see how you can improve the system. if you allow a carrier pigeon or whatever to sell your maps then why would anyone go around with loot on ships, just bury it where you get it and sell immediately with 0 risk. if you make selling it not worthwhile then the whole system goes back to its current pointless state. the system is flawed from a design perspective (feels like im saying this alot recently) it was destined to be ignored by players once achievements and commendations were got.

    75% is incentive for people like me that still produce a lot but have lost interest in the act of going to an outpost and selling solo.
    it doesn't not give an emissary bonus so it's an in-between for thieves and grinders to make some and being allowed to focus on the thievery/grinding

    Plenty of incentive to carry loot still for emissary purposes
    Lots of people have not lost that desire for gold so there is plenty of incentive to gather/carry/sell loot

    My idea just offers opportunity to bring more into the mix without sacrificing appeal for emissary/gold grinding rather than the selling

    If people want better loot it makes sense to make it appealing to people that encounter a lot of it on a consistent basis but aren't super focused anymore on getting every piece of gold out of it.

    There are regular occasions where I have access to quality loot but because of the battle maybe I don't have a ship or am way out in the boondocks and I don't wanna travel so I could bury good stuff at a nearby island and the loot doesn't get wasted and keeps activity and appeal circulating.

    At the high danger style of gameplay a lot of quality loot gets left to sink or hidden on islands somewhere. This would just add some appeal to saving some of it and offers others a chance at good digs.

  • you still need to look at how that system is going to play out for the majority of players though not just your own play style.

    75% worth for loot i bury, im just burying everything on the spot. the 25% i lose in value im probably gaining in time not having to ferry everything to the correct merchant plus im doing so risk free.

  • @greatfailure82 said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    you still need to look at how that system is going to play out for the majority of players though not just your own play style.

    75% worth for loot i bury, im just burying everything on the spot. the 25% i lose in value im probably gaining in time not having to ferry everything to the correct merchant plus im doing so risk free.

    it's not just 25%

    75% of the base price without emissary

    Significant incentive for most players still to use emissaries and make significantly more gold

    Also doesn't even guarantee anyone digs it up and sells it

    this doesn't remove people it largely just adds them to the mix

    For good loot more consistently there has to be appeal for people that produce it. There is an untapped portion of long time players that could potentially be brought in to provide it at least sometimes and it's not making any significant sacrifices from other portions to offer it.

  • im still just burying everything i find as i expect a net gain over time

  • @greatfailure82 said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    im still just burying everything i find as i expect a net gain over time

    not really anything wrong with that

    brings potentially decent items to the dig system and someone has to dig it up and deliver it so it still gets in circulation

  • @wolfmanbush it kills the risk reward system, removes loot from ships so makes incentives pvp less and encourages more boring gameplay. goto island, dig up all loot at exactly the same spot and either go sell it and pick up another map or bury it where you stand and move onto the next island. i see no benefit to SoT as a whole from that outcome

  • Burying was a bad idea, just let it die.

  • @greatfailure82 said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    @wolfmanbush it kills the risk reward system, removes loot from ships so makes incentives pvp less and encourages more boring gameplay. goto island, dig up all loot at exactly the same spot and either go sell it and pick up another map or bury it where you stand and move onto the next island. i see no benefit to SoT as a whole from that outcome

    I think you're overestimating the incentive for 75% of base pay with no emissary and underestimating how valuable gold/commendations still is to most of the game's base.

    with gold incentives it also makes it in people's best interest to not bury very low value items because they will learn that they are not often getting sold and it's a waste of their time

    nothing works perfectly in a shared environment but there has to be appeal to help things become more consistent if people want it to be more than what it currently is.

    This is a game that gives 50% of all loot sold by up to 5 ships with emissary bonuses to make a server safer with no sacrifice
    that's a problem for the risk/reward system

    my offered solution doesn't do that

  • @d3adst1ck dijo en About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    Burying was a bad idea, just let it die.

    I think is not a bad idea, the big problem here is the people. I understand that some kegs must be buried for the commendation, but if the idea is helping new players an incentive them to dig this kind of maps, they should put a minimal value to the treasure if you want to bury it.

    Let´s be honest, a new player picks a lvl 5 souls voyage and he/she obtains more rewards on less time than doing buried treasures, because people is omega troll on this game and just bury trash as I said before.

    If this treasures were profitable, everyone will be doing them but is not the case, and that is not a feature problem, is the people who do this kind of things, is better to sell your trash on the vendor than making others waste time to troll them over and over again.

  • @elci-poteh Burying will never be profitable. With purchased voyages, you know exactly what you're getting and can align your emissary accordingly. Burying is random. In order for burying to be profitable, other players need to be willing to forego profit. That's not going to happen very often, which is why the board is filled with mostly game generated maps.

    To make burying profitable, you need to make it more valuable than doing voyages or turning stuff in which is directly opposed to what the main game loop is supposed to be.

    Burying is a fun side feature to mess around with once and awhile and nothing more.

  • @wolfmanbush said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    I think you're overestimating the incentive for 75% of base pay with no emissary and underestimating how valuable gold/commendations still is to most of the game's base.

    with gold incentives it also makes it in people's best interest to not bury very low value items because they will learn that they are not often getting sold and it's a waste of their time

    nothing works perfectly in a shared environment but there has to be appeal to help things become more consistent if people want it to be more than what it currently is.

    There are a fairly small percentage of people that are donating good loot, the problem is the fact that you can bury anything.

    You can bury cargo crates, empty animal cages, live animal cages, empty treasure chests, you used to bury storage crates, you can bury supply crates and firework crates of any amount.

    These items when they have little to no value are being put under the earth just to clear commendations, surely you might see the massive flaw in the function and the worth it brings to multiple players.

  • @nex-stargaze said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    @wolfmanbush said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    I think you're overestimating the incentive for 75% of base pay with no emissary and underestimating how valuable gold/commendations still is to most of the game's base.

    with gold incentives it also makes it in people's best interest to not bury very low value items because they will learn that they are not often getting sold and it's a waste of their time

    nothing works perfectly in a shared environment but there has to be appeal to help things become more consistent if people want it to be more than what it currently is.

    There are a fairly small percentage of people that are donating good loot, the problem is the fact that you can bury anything.

    You can bury cargo crates, empty animal cages, live animal cages, empty treasure chests, you used to bury storage crates, you can bury supply crates and firework crates of any amount.

    These items when they have little to no value are being put under the earth just to clear commendations, surely you might see the massive flaw in the function and the worth it brings to multiple players.

    and those people remove themselves from the system when the commendations are done

    there will always be people operating outside of the spirit of something

    the goal is to incentivize people to opt in for consistency or at least more positive experiences

    Gold incentives work better than commendations when it comes to increasing buried loot quality

  • Should have offered gold, reputation, and renown worth the actual value of the loot you would get if you turned it in at an Outpost without an emissary.

    This would incentivize players with bigger hauls to not go to the outpost and instead bury it on an island.

    They don't lose anything by doing this and the feature gets used more.

    As an example, say you have a player who has been doing some stacking. They are very tired and want to leave the game. The nearest outpost has 1-2 boats on them. Now they are looking at 2 scenarios;

    1. Go to that Ouptost and engage the other player in some unknown interaction
    2. Sail to the next outpost.

    If you got all the same value you would get from taking it to an outpost, by burying it, it adds a third scenario;

    1. Bury loot on large island, not worrying about outpost, and then you go pop the maps up on the board and go to sleep ready to awaken to all your rewards coming in because you know you aren't losing out on anything other than the time to actually bury all your loot.

    This is what they should have done and what I hope to see in the future.

  • @personalc0ffee said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    Should have offered gold, reputation, and renown worth the actual value of the loot you would get if you turned it in at an Outpost without an emissary.

    This would incentivize players with bigger hauls to not go to the outpost and instead bury it on an island.

    They don't lose anything by doing this and the feature gets used more.

    As an example, say you have a player who has been doing some stacking. They are very tired and want to leave the game. The nearest outpost has 1-2 boats on them. Now they are looking at 2 scenarios;

    1. Go to that Ouptost and engage the other player in some unknown interaction
    2. Sail to the next outpost.

    If you got all the same value you would get from taking it to an outpost, by burying it, it adds a third scenario;

    1. Bury loot on large island, not worrying about outpost, and then you go pop the maps up on the board and go to sleep ready to awaken to all your rewards coming in because you know you aren't losing out on anything other than the time to actually bury all your loot.

    This is what they should have done and what I hope to see in the future.

    Wouldn't this remove items from PvP if everyone can bury stuff with the same profit as turning it in ?

  • @lem0n-curry said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    @personalc0ffee said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    Should have offered gold, reputation, and renown worth the actual value of the loot you would get if you turned it in at an Outpost without an emissary.

    This would incentivize players with bigger hauls to not go to the outpost and instead bury it on an island.

    They don't lose anything by doing this and the feature gets used more.

    As an example, say you have a player who has been doing some stacking. They are very tired and want to leave the game. The nearest outpost has 1-2 boats on them. Now they are looking at 2 scenarios;

    1. Go to that Ouptost and engage the other player in some unknown interaction
    2. Sail to the next outpost.

    If you got all the same value you would get from taking it to an outpost, by burying it, it adds a third scenario;

    1. Bury loot on large island, not worrying about outpost, and then you go pop the maps up on the board and go to sleep ready to awaken to all your rewards coming in because you know you aren't losing out on anything other than the time to actually bury all your loot.

    This is what they should have done and what I hope to see in the future.

    Wouldn't this remove items from PvP if everyone can bury stuff with the same profit as turning it in ?

    You mean just immediately bury everything you find cause you know you're getting paid anyway?

    I suppose it could but usually PvP never has anything worth taking anyway, in my experience unless you actually ambush someone you know has something. Plus if they see you bury it, they can steal it.

    There is also a significant turn around time on waiting for those rewards vs just selling it yourself.

    But for sake of argument let's say it could. How do we fix it and also still incentivize it to be used?

  • @personalc0ffee said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    You mean just immediately bury everything you find cause you know you're getting paid anyway?

    I suppose it could but usually PvP never has anything worth taking anyway, in my experience unless you actually ambush someone you know has something. Plus if they see you bury it, they can steal it.

    Guess all those posts on the forums about losing treasure after "hours of hoarding" &c are a figment of my imagination ? So is the loot I lose when my ship sinks or the loot I pick up when we sink another crew. ?
    R5, server hoppers and those that are only looking for a fight are the ones without loot in a fight, most of the rest has something to lose.

    So, the person who buries it gets 100% value; the crew that digs it up and buries it again gets 100% value. Then another crew comes around (or the first one again) &c.
    The economy in SoT is already in shambles, but this will just be one step away from Rare adding 1000 gold for every second we're in game (yeah I know it's hyperbole - still not wrong )

    There is also a significant turn around time on waiting for those rewards vs just selling it yourself.

    But for sake of argument let's say it could. How do we fix it and also still incentivize it to be used?

    Burying treasure is useful in several situations, keeping it oit of sight for some time or picking it up when you're the corresponding Emissary &c. That you can get bonus renown in case you don't have time to dig them up again, by posting it to a board is a bonus.

  • @lem0n-curry said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    @personalc0ffee said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    You mean just immediately bury everything you find cause you know you're getting paid anyway?

    I suppose it could but usually PvP never has anything worth taking anyway, in my experience unless you actually ambush someone you know has something. Plus if they see you bury it, they can steal it.

    Guess all those posts on the forums about losing treasure after "hours of hoarding" &c are a figment of my imagination ? So is the loot I lose when my ship sinks or the loot I pick up when we sink another crew. ?
    R5, server hoppers and those that are only looking for a fight are the ones without loot in a fight, most of the rest has something to lose.

    So, the person who buries it gets 100% value; the crew that digs it up and buries it again gets 100% value. Then another crew comes around (or the first one again) &c.
    The economy in SoT is already in shambles, but this will just be one step away from Rare adding 1000 gold for every second we're in game (yeah I know it's hyperbole - still not wrong )

    I play with a Reaper Heavy crew at times, they are semi-regular crew and we sunk like 17-20 boats one day and all but one had what I would consider a good haul. Most people do not carry loot and of course all we had was a bangton of supplies and murder flares, naturally.

    There is also a significant turn around time on waiting for those rewards vs just selling it yourself.

    But for sake of argument let's say it could. How do we fix it and also still incentivize it to be used?

    Burying treasure is useful in several situations, keeping it oit of sight for some time or picking it up when you're the corresponding Emissary &c. That you can get bonus renown in case you don't have time to dig them up again, by posting it to a board is a bonus.

    Yes but the feature is not being used that often. How do we incentivize it more?

  • @personalc0ffee

    Specific events in the Event Hub to reward players for burying certain types of loot could help here... Imagine burying 100 pieces of Athena loot and rewarding players with unique cosmetics.

    The same could be then applied to X Captains Chests etc...

  • @musicmee said in About Buried Treasure & Maps:

    @personalc0ffee

    Specific events in the Event Hub to reward players for burying certain types of loot could help here... Imagine burying 100 pieces of Athena loot and rewarding players with unique cosmetics.

    The same could be then applied to X Captains Chests etc...

    That's certainly a start but it would only last until everyone "got everything" and then we'd be right back here.

    How do we further incentivize and keep incentivizing players to use this feature though? I think that's the key to making this an enjoyable, long lasting, and rewarding feature.

    I use the feature but I'm a different kind of player. I regularly do things the other players typically don't bother with.

  • @musicmee

    There is a commendation for 20 Athena items being buried.

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