It's amazing how I level 40 with guardians meet people level 100 or higher, i haven't made a streak higher than 2 in a very long time, i'm really thinking about quit this mode and this game.
Skill based match
@erceppone said in Skill based match:
It's amazing how I level 40 with guardians meet people level 100 or higher, i haven't made a streak higher than 2 in a very long time, i'm really thinking about quit this mode and this game.
High level doesn't always mean skill, especially knowing that there are people getting the curse in server alliance...
@erceppone said in Skill based match:
It's amazing how I level 40 with guardians meet people level 100 or higher, i haven't made a streak higher than 2 in a very long time, i'm really thinking about quit this mode and this game.
The match making isn't about level but about similar wins/losses.
People with level 100 can have lost more, but just played more or longer sessions.
@erceppone changes are coming. But level overall is just a show of play time. so someone who has the curse and is 200-100 has the same ratio as someone who is 10-5. the game assumes that is the same skill. the real issue is the stamps. once stamp changes happen the pool of players will be much larger
@captain-coel said in Skill based match:
@erceppone changes are coming. But level overall is just a show of play time. so someone who has the curse and is 200-100 has the same ratio as someone who is 10-5. the game assumes that is the same skill. the real issue is the stamps. once stamp changes happen the pool of players will be much larger
The real issue isn't stamps, they have nothing to do with SBMM. The real issue is that W/L ratio is not an equivalency to Elo rating. The announcement video and post all vaguely imply a true Elo rating system, and we got a lazy-man's "they should be equivalent."
I know there are arguments to both sides but go look up the 10,000 hour rule. Someone who is 200-100 could be as much as 20x better than someone 10-5. We deserve a true Elo rating system, not this W/L ratio nonsense.
@lem0n-curry sagte in Skill based match:
The match making isn't about level but about similar wins/losses.
People with level 100 can have lost more, but just played more or longer sessions.
yes but does it also take into account the number of games played?
Because usually win rates are average, i would assume. every Normalo basically will have between 40-60% winrate. Win/loss ratio alone will not be a good indicator@lordqulex said in Skill based match:
@captain-coel said in Skill based match:
@erceppone changes are coming. But level overall is just a show of play time. so someone who has the curse and is 200-100 has the same ratio as someone who is 10-5. the game assumes that is the same skill. the real issue is the stamps. once stamp changes happen the pool of players will be much larger
The real issue isn't stamps, they have nothing to do with SBMM. The real issue is that W/L ratio is not an equivalency to Elo rating. The announcement video and post all vaguely imply a true Elo rating system, and we got a lazy-man's "they should be equivalent."
I know there are arguments to both sides but go look up the 10,000 hour rule. Someone who is 200-100 could be as much as 20x better than someone 10-5. We deserve a true Elo rating system, not this W/L ratio nonsense.
I am aware of the mastery idea. but if you only with 2/3 of your matches, you're likely only as good as others who win 2/3. This 20x claim is nonsense.
And the issue is Stamps. I've outlined it before. The size of the player pool is miniscule. I've been on stamps where it's only 4 crews partaking in the same configuration I am. Do you know how bad it feels to sink the same crew three times in an hour and half. Literally said sorry to them. They should never have been matched against us once, let alone three times. But when no one else on your stamp is competing its mixes the lower elo with the higher elo quite quickly. Around the 4 min mark for a new player with 0 wins to match against a pro player woth a 90% win rate. They prioritize matches happening over leaving ypu in the queue looking for a fair fight.
I'm a software developer by trade and have likely forgotten more about stamps than many people here know. (I worded that quite deliberately to not make any assumptions about what you may or may not know. 🤣)
But I think one thing that stood out to me is:
The size of the player pool is miniscule.
If player participation were larger, would stamps still be the issue? Would SBMM be broken if more players were encouraged/incentivized/desired this play mode? My gut tells me that this cross stamp match making "issue" is simply a symptom of a completely different disease.
@parrotlord6426 said in Skill based match:
@lem0n-curry sagte in Skill based match:
The match making isn't about level but about similar wins/losses.
People with level 100 can have lost more, but just played more or longer sessions.
yes but does it also take into account the number of games played?
Because usually win rates are average, i would assume. every Normalo basically will have between 40-60% winrate. Win/loss ratio alone will not be a good indicatorThe skill rating is also determined by the difference of skill with your opponents. As I understand it, winning against a better crew gets your more rating than winning against a crew that's worse than you &c.
That would be how an Elo rating system works, but Rare has since come out and rescinded that statement, I believe the latest we've heard from them is it's flat W/L.
@lordqulex said in Skill based match:
That would be how an Elo rating system works, but Rare has since come out and rescinded that statement, I believe the latest we've heard from them is it's flat W/L.
My source is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRDJL089EAg starting at 4:17. (link is to the Rare video "Battle Ships: Official Sea of Thieves Season Eight Deep Dive" on youtube).
Is the counter you mentioned official ?I think this is the latest source:
https://www.seaofthieves.com/news/s8-matchmaking-changesOur skill-based matchmaking system is based on a variant of the Elo system – we take into account the win/loss ratio of the crew combined, not any session's streak, and this informs who you're matched against when you opt into a battle.
It is not Elo, it is a variant of the Elo system that uses win/loss ratio.
@lordqulex said in Skill based match:
I'm a software developer by trade and have likely forgotten more about stamps than many people here know. (I worded that quite deliberately to not make any assumptions about what you may or may not know. 🤣)
But I think one thing that stood out to me is:
The size of the player pool is miniscule.
If player participation were larger, would stamps still be the issue? Would SBMM be broken if more players were encouraged/incentivized/desired this play mode? My gut tells me that this cross stamp match making "issue" is simply a symptom of a completely different disease.
Honestly I believe so. I'm not convinced after hours of hopping servers on the same stamp that there is ever more than 10 servers per stamp. it gets hard to keep track of world events/ reapers chests/ leaving bait on the stove to find more servers.
This means they have spin up more stamps with a limited player pool. This split is the root of the sbmm/elo just getting wrecked. It fractures the player base into a very very tiny pool of people you can interact with.
EX
As of 3:16pm Est Steam has 17,369 players on SoT. If the servers are full of 16 player servers that's 1085 servers. Split that equally(we know it's not) between us east/central/west, EU, and oce and you have roughly 217 servers per region. split that into 10 server stamps and you have ~22stamps per region.At 10 servers in a stamp we know everyone isn't engaged in the hourglass, everyone is doing their own thing. But of you had the max galleys per server (3) you have a pool of 30 galleys. it's just gets smaller and smaller. if you could fight your whole region instead of 30 potential opponents that quickly becomes 660. Many won't be fighting but the oppurtunity to find more equal skill fights will be there. And not in the smaller stamp set up we have now.
I've been hopping hundreds of times tk try and figure it out. My brain is mostly mush at this point.
OH, that's what you mean: yes and no. There is no set number of stamps per region, what is probably configured is servers per stamp. Stamps and servers are absolutely scalable based on load. Why should I have 30 servers running at 4am when no one is on? Rare probably knows how many servers one stamp can handle. As players join the game approaching peak hours, they spin up more servers and thus more stamps. When they leave, Rare will spin down and merge servers. That's why it's hard for you to keep track: it will be different at all times and constantly shifting. Real-time scalable platforms is one of the major benefits of cloud-based hosting.
@lordqulex that's why I've tried at peak hours ex 8pm est. and also tried at odd hours 7am est.
I've mostly done it on sloops because it can fit into more server configurations as you move around.
Its definitely scalable. But I still think the stamp has a max server count. Which means we currently have limited player pool. Cross stamp will make it immensely larger, particularly during peak times.
@lordqulex said in Skill based match:
I think this is the latest source:
https://www.seaofthieves.com/news/s8-matchmaking-changesOur skill-based matchmaking system is based on a variant of the Elo system – we take into account the win/loss ratio of the crew combined, not any session's streak, and this informs who you're matched against when you opt into a battle.
It is not Elo, it is a variant of the Elo system that uses win/loss ratio.
Could the word variant be used because, unlike original Elo, they have to calculate the ranking of the crew using the Elo scores of the members of the crew ? And they use win/loss ratio as a simplified way of explaining it (just as I did above) ?
E.g. up until now I've played with my regular crew mate every match (duo-sloop I guess a bit over 50% wins or trio-brigantine with a bit less than 50% wins); if I would team up with someone I used to do Arena with and who is much more proficient in PvP we will be put against better crews than I normally face, while if he would play with someone new, he'll be put against worse crews.
We would not be facing each other at the start if we both do Sea of Bones, even if we would end up in the same stamp - unless of course we can't be matched against other crews.It's probably a "variant" because they need to average the rating of a crew. E.g.,
Crew A's (reduced) W/L is 1-2, 4-7, and 5-6, for an average of 0.635.
Crew B's (reduced) W/L works out to 0.579.
They match because they would both be in the [0.5-0.75] queue.if its only win/loss, then the system is a joke.
While i feel i mostly get good matches, just now I had a match against double gunner/animation cancel, and the buddy who was stuck on ferry (disconnected he said, so Thats why was solo sloop match, but buddy of his waiting on ferry), said the guy i am fighting has 4k hours into the game..
I also alrdy had curse people fighting against me, i am level 30 currently..
so, yeah, I dont want complain as of now, i get good matches mostly, and the curse people we sank, but... I honestly hope they have some ELO/MMR rating going on. otherwise its a joke, and a lazy one at that
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