I was playing solo today and got crept up on by a 3 person brigg somehow at a skullfort. I thought I took proper measures to ensure they couldn't sneak up on me by leaving the tower skellies alive but I know it's a huge risk trying to solo on this game and it's ok. What isn't ok is 2 of them must have been using macro's to double gun me as I ask how they were reloading so quickly because I couldn't even tell what they were shooting me with you don't even see a weapon swap at all. This was their own answer "it's called double gunning" So RARE do I need to do this to be able to actually win a fight against these ppl or are you actually going to fix this? I quit the game 3-4 years ago and just started playing again a few days ago so much new cool stuff to but with these ppl in it who would want to play it unless you can be on a even playing field with everyone else? I remember when you guys fixed it for bit pretty close to the time I quit playing it would put a pause when switching weapons. Well they have found a way around it.
I'm still being "double gunned" why?
Try Xbox servers. It’s slightly less prevalent.
Also, if you’re fighting multiple people, the odds are always against you.
You can adjust to the game as is. It’s a learning curve. But there’s so many unique ways to play. As a solo, I am always ready with a rowboat and a keg. I rely heavily on the element of surprise. And have beaten larger crews many a time, because they’ve been busy bailing, and are unprepared for a threat.
Wanting the game to change for you, is probably the wrong attitude, dude.
Yea I haven't played on xbox in ages going from 150 fps back to whatever the xbox gets is a no go since im not going to buy one when I can just do the same as these ppl if that's what it takes. Also I started playing this game on day 1 I'm past the learning curve. Had a pretty good group I played with back in the day. But this shouldn't still be possible. That's quite a joke of a answer tbh. Also when I use to play on xbox I could double gun just fine with a controller but it wasn't a thing back then until they nerfed it then only pc had the ability to do it.
People are pretty quick and increasingly accurate these days. Xbox players can be pretty darn skilled as well
Just gotta get the sword out and give them some choppy choppy
Macros or just very quick and skilled they still miss sometimes or their gun doesn't shoot
Their worst enemy is a swordnado with some solid dodging movements. Just gotta time the dodge right so maybe you don't take the one blunder if they are using one.
@wolfmanbush these guys knew to take off and reload tho so that couldn't happen which makes since after that you can't even get close to them there's no grey area here you can not get close to them even with a sword because it's over that quick. Look I've been gaming for a very long time since competitive scene of L4D1 and I know that in most cases you have to match what other ppl are doing to be able to match them. Sure I was going to lose anyway 1v3 isn't good odds at all but imagine knowing you are fighting a solo and still exploiting to win and talking s***.
@personalc0ffee said in I'm still being "double gunned" why?:
Because they still insist on not fixing or removing this playstyle even though the game is not designed around it.
Weapons aren't a problem, double gunning, quick swapping, that all works in the environment
What they didn't have a plan for is the goofy pirate game getting so competitive and the skill gap getting so wide.
Even with all the server issues, all the bugs and glitches and inconsistent combat there are still quite a few skilled players that stuck around during it all.
As long as they have shooting out of cannons and boarding and weapons and combat in general they will always have the skill gap that got overly wide, which contributes to lower interest in the game and in combat which makes it more unpleasant for those around, because of that lack of variety encounter.
Double gunning isn't the problem. quick swapping isn't the problem, it's the low activity mixed with the wide skill and interest gap.
@wolfmanbush I mean someone having the ability to insta kill you is kind of a problem I don't think that it was made to be in the game or what's the point of having a health bar? Or items to replenish it? As far as skill gap I promise I'm not lacking in the skill. In this encounter I was killed respawned back on my boat as one of them was climbing up the ladder I shot him with a blunderbust but guess what he was able to do even tho he was on the ladder yup even tho I shot him his exploit allowed him to kill me. I did kill him the second time I respawned because I hid behind a barrel he still did damage but he was dead I lowered my sails to get away and started bucketing water before I sank and his teammate uses his exploit to kill me and I just left because I'd rather not be on that server where I could run into them again. So if I was to use the same tactics they do I would have been gone to began with that's my opinion.
It’s not an insta kill, also double gunning and animation canceling doesn’t cause reloading to be faster, aside from the flintlock. My guess is you had 3 people all coming at you shooting A LOT and it is definitely overwhelming firepower. Double gunning doesn’t guarantee a win, I’ve lost to many a sword lord. Does it make back to back shots faster? Yeah if you time it right, but also get to toss in hit reg, the gun simply not shooting, and missed shots. It isn’t OP it isn’t something that is a cheat it’s something that just is. I use the sword a lot too and the sword can be super broken when player hit boxes are lagging and they get sucked back/stunned from 10ft away. The game wasn’t meant to be nearly as competitive as it is and the mechanics show that often. Honest hit reg can stay broken I think the “Rare” moments often toss in that RNG that causes a fight to go either way and I have definitely had it save my life and ships life a time or two. Simply saying double gunning is why I couldn’t solo 3 pirates is not a valid excuse. Check out Blurbs or Hitbotc some time. Those dudes wreck double gunners with a sword on the regular. It’s about skill and more importantly knowing how the mechanics work and how to offset them.
@personalc0ffee said in I'm still being "double gunned" why?:
Because they still insist on not fixing or removing this playstyle even though the game is not designed around it.
A good fix would be every time you switch to a gun weapon. You have to reload it.
@mykn1f3urf4c387 If you're being killed in less than a second, it is NOT double gun. It's not even quick swapping. Is it hacks? I don't know, but there are currently no exploits in the game that allow you to fire both guns within a second.
@scurvywoof that's what I thought too. I just simple asked them how they were doing that I honestly thought it was hacks because it was so fast and I remember double gunning before it became a big problem and they did take steps to make it not possible and what they were doing was double gunning but from what I've read there's a whole google search page on how to do it with macros and it would be very hard to do it any other way or actually using the keys to do it or it's cheats because they were not missing shots the only way I killed one of them was a barrel between me and him and I still took damage. But yeah they told me they were double gunning so that confirmed it to me anyway just don't know about the hacking part because if you are close enough the shots hit you anyway as long as they are looking in your direction.
I won't keep arguing my point about it and I will not change my opinion. I have been with this game for years and for years these stupid double guns have plagued the game and made combat awful. They do not belong in the game in their current implementation. This is not Call of Duty.
The game was not built with the current implementation of two guns, in mind. It is a problem that has plagued the game since Open Beta when you could carry around all weapons at once. An attempt has been made to balance it one time and it hasn't been that successful in my opinion.
Battles are MEANT to be decided by cutlass in close quarters combat, not double guns. The reason double gun is the meta is because it is good and it is broken.
It is why most high level pvp is done by double gun. Because it is GOOD. It takes an average sword user and turns them into a crew wiping god once they get it down. That part still takes skill.
If it weren't that good, it wouldn't be getting used in high level competitive PvP and nearly every actually good crew I run into wouldn't have at least one of them on their crew.
They need to scrap it entirely and re-work it to be a proper dual gun system that is balanced and fair that doesn't rely on cheap exploits to work properly.
#downwiththedoublegunandupwiththedualpistols
@personalc0ffee meta guns right now are blunder and sniper no? Their first shot was always pistol and I can't tell you the second because it was shoot before I can't even see the gun or see a spread from a blunder because I was dead by that point. But I agree should I be able to be killed by a person carrying 2 guns yeah but just not like that. As I am sure more people would agree with if they didn't have the ability to double gun which if they are playing by what RARE did to the guns they don't.
@personalc0ffee said in I'm still being "double gunned" why?:
It is why most high level pvp is done by double gun. Because it is GOOD. It takes an average sword user and turns them into a crew wiping god once they get it down. That part still takes skill.
This is largely based on social peacocking and stigmas
There are different situations for different loadouts but what happens in SoT is far more of a clique thing than a "it's better" thing
A skilled sword player can chop through skilled double gunners in a deck fight
Communities pick and choose what they think is cool, that's all double gun is, it's a mix of some people enjoying it and a lot of social focus on "double gun good, sword bad" within pvp circles
There are a lot of people that skillfully use swords, they just don't tend to be loud about it either way, they like what they like and it works out fine.
A skilled sword lunger is as dangerous as anyone else. That's all people would be turned into with double gun nerfs. Same result.
@mostexpendable said in I'm still being "double gunned" why?:
Wanting the game to change for you, is probably the wrong attitude, dude.
RARE tried to fix this years ago and it worked for awhile but not anymore so there was a reason why they tried to fix besides just me my friend.
@mykn1f3urf4c387 I’m not saying I’m not taking you seriously, however dying in under a second against 3 people all shooting isn’t out of the question. Two hit the EOR back to back and you’re down. If it’s one person and only one, maybe hacking, don’t know, haven’t seen a clip of it.
@personalc0ffee I’m sorry not everyone plays the way you wish the game was played? It’s not the only meta on the seas. It’s not unbreakable either, a competent sword user can take down a double gunner. I run both, been killed by both. If anything the current meta on solo sloop HG is blunder/cutlass
@jj-h816 It wasn't 3 at one time and I've taken on some pretty good players on the game and multiple people at a time. In this case I should have had the advantage as the first engagement was him coming in to the skullfort to kill me. I didn't know they were there just guessing why is because one of them must have swam to the towers where I left the skellies to shot at ships coming close to the island and killed them and plus I train the skellies on the island when I'm solo around the top of the fort so I can see other ships coming in . The second engagement was me looking at him on my ladder trying to bored my boat and I did shot him with a bluderbust off the ladder but what happened was he double gunned me at the same time to kill me. It was me vs 1 of them at a time during the whole engagement.
As far as the situation you described, you somehow got rolled up on by a brigantine of skilled players that have practiced utilizing their double gunning. The original exploit of double gunning where absolutely no reaction time could be used to outplay it, was patched. The supposed "workaround" from the initial nerf is caused by sprint cancelling. Every tool in your pirate's inventory automatically gets holstered while running, as such, you can switch your weapons and within about a second after switching your weapon, you can sprint to cancel the remainder of the un-stowing animation that both switching weapons, and the stowing action share.
To add to this, you got outplayed by a full brigantine crew as a solo, any situation where you're outnumbered is far from a fair fight on the grounds of: you quite literally can't beat multiple people with different weapon loadouts over your own. It's an unfortunate fact that we have to accept and move on from. Blaming the ability to use two guns as fast as the game allows it is not what I would consider the real issue at hand. This kind of issue should also not cause the community's Boatswains to have tangential rant posts on the level of a new forum user.
You can win with whatever loadout you want, you just have to play at your smartest. PvP engagements are not turn-based battles, it's very freeform and loose, which is it's major appeal, but on top of that, you have moments where you simply can't win and have to accept that there are bigger fish out in this saltwater ocean. If PvP combat norms are going to rile you up a bit, you may want to consider some really good sword-focused single player games such as The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, or Assassin's Creed Black Flag.
@nex-stargaze Like I said I'll double gun exploit too doesn't matter to me. You think it's gone but I know what it looks like because I've been there. It seems like you think rare fixed it right then what does it matter if I go do this then I'm good on the 2 Pve games you suggested as I have spent quite a bit of my money on this game and I'll play the damn way I want to thank you. I know my skills at the game and I'm not bad I have gone up against some of the hardest crews to play against and make them mad enough to cry stream sniper so your nonsense is irrelevant. It would have been me getting away from them to not try to PvP them if the dirty little exploiters wouldn't have killed me while climbing a ladder while being shot off the ladder because he can exploit and then proceed to talk sh*t and all I said was how did you reload so fast because I thought the ability to shot one gun right after the other was removed from the game when he also proceed to tell me yeah no it's very much still possible when honestly I thought he was aimbotting or using some kind of hack to reload faster on the pistol. Don't tell me to go play other games plz and thankyou.
You can win with whatever loadout you want, you just have to play at your smartest. PvP engagements are not turn-based battles, it's very freeform and loose, which is it's major appeal, but on top of that, you have moments where you simply can't win and have to accept that there are bigger fish out in this saltwater ocean. If PvP combat norms are going to rile you up a bit, you may want to consider some really good sword-focused single player games such as The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, or Assassin's Creed Black Flag.
this why you got the response you got to many of these type post on forums. On a lighter note the last Zelda game I played was ocarina of time before gaming on the internet was even possible let that sink in.
Double gun is the meta in this game, particularly blunder/EoR but EoR/pistol can work too and actually does require abit of skill. To say double gun is balanced is just plain wrong, if it was balanced you'd see a wide variety of weapon loadouts in high skilled crews, but you don't, it's just the one. Other shooters that I'm aware of don't even allow you to carry 2 high damage weapons. Funny thing is if you manage to get a group of you together and do some TDM, if you force the cutlass it all feels pretty balanced, as soon as one player starts double gunning they start to dominate.
I don't double gun myself because I hate the playstyle, I prefer the mobility of the sword but you are always on the back foot against good double gunners, throw in some animation cancels and the balance is very one sided.
@a10dr4651 It's not the fact they are using 2 guns it's the fact they can fire them simutaniously when it happens to you it's almost like you got shot once but that's not what happened and you die. So you can be one shot by a blunderbust but sometimes not this exploit makes sure you die and using a macro all they have to do is push one key or mouse button to fire both guns and you die end of story unless you can make them miss but only the bad ones are dumb enough to try to shot you when you are behind cover.
@mykn1f3urf4c387 there is supposed to be a delay between shots, I think it's 1.2 seconds but animation cancel drops it to around 1 second. I know exactly what your talking about unless they double shot you (2 players hitting you at the same time). I was playing against some very skilled players yesterday in HG, one hit me with a blunder which lifted me off the floor and shot me with the EoR before I landed again, I couldn't do anything. The guy was insane, really impressive to see that skill level but is it balanced, not really.
I have a feeling though you may have been shot by the other player, double shot like that is just a benefit 2v1, you're always against the odds in that whether they double gun or not.
@a10dr4651 yeah I know but threw animation canceling in a macro it's by passed. I watched him do it( as in switch weapons tho it didn't show the second weapon but it had sound and the visuals of shooting) and heard both his guns go off though. I'm sure of it and the term double gun that's what it means the exploit not carrying 2 guns.
@mykn1f3urf4c387 Just to clarify, double gun is actually carrying two guns.
And, damn, 4 year old video. That's definitely not any form of animation cancelling I've seen in recent years.@mykn1f3urf4c387 Correct. However, that was patched and has been for years. I was just playing and was unable to switch weapons within the time frame you've described.
I won't outright say their hacking because I wasn't there to see it, but I would definitely say they were doing something suspicious.@scurvywoof and I'm saying this happened to me today and there are macros for download I didn't really look that far into it but 2021 after the patch so I don't what else I can say.
@scurvywoof said in I'm still being "double gunned" why?:
@mykn1f3urf4c387 Just to clarify, double gun is actually carrying two guns.
And, damn, 4 year old video. That's definitely not any form of animation cancelling I've seen in recent years.So then is it also possible it was a some kind of hacks because I promise this happened to me today.
Actually just looked at the 2021 dated thread and it's a script hack.this is exactly what it says: • Double Gun
When Keybind is pressed Automatically switches to the next Gun and Shoots from it as fast as Possible while also Scoping in (Works with Every Gun)
*Combine that with the Crosshair and your a Godhow sad.
Double gunning is a legit play style, and as a sword user, i can say its possible to counter double gunners, you just cant play like your fighting another sword user.
If you ever try double gunning your self, you will learn the challenge of it, its not an easy skill to pull off, and it does have limitations.
@goldsmen well now looking more into what happened and seeing people now like using script hacks and I've heard a few streamers talking about the hackers in sea of thieves I think it possible these were hackers. Wish I had it recorded but I don't.
The Double Gun Exploit - TPC Talks
