Crew Management [I can't play with friends??]

@sirbats I believe the system will be changing so its not even worth trying to explain. Needless to say its not very encouraging for groups of 5 or 6.

@red0demon0 I don't think so. Sorry, but from what I see of the game I do not believe the issues you are thinking about will be there. Besides, in its current state the content available is dull and boring, adding more crew would only add to the experience. But right now, we have to wait and see what is to come. I believe we will actually have a good crew management system. And hopefully we will see a crew size increase to 6 or 8. Any more than that and I would start to disagree.

Guilds and clans/fleets is a topic separate from this, and was only brought up because people got all scared that their experience was going to be ruined by an increase in 2 or 3 additional players.

@tre-oni that is a rather sad thing for you to say to a fellow community member. I think its best to let me decide that, not you. I also think the request to play with friends is valid, if you don't think so that is fine you are entitled to that opinion. But don't bring me down just because we disagree about certain mechanics. That's a low blow, and very unnecessary.

And any one willing to look at these forums can see that I am not the only person that feels this way. So please try to be open-minded.

@ethnine Made a topic on this once.
I believe their should be an option to have a placeholder for your ship, so that only invited people can join.

I guess the fact you have 8 friends wanting to play together all comes down to whether they allow more than 4 people on each big ship, which they really should.
4 people on cannons.
3 people at the sails.
1 Person at the wheel.

There are still more spaces available like repairing the ship or going up to the crows nest, even having a musician or two on the ship.

There 100% shouldn't be a limit to 4 people per crew.

On a 4 man ship, sailing normally, most of the time everyone who is not on the helm has nothing to do other than drink and play music (and watch the horizon). The only time you would benefit from having 8 would be in the heat of a chase and battle where you want heavy sails and cannon management. This is a small part of the game.
The rest of the time most people would have nothing to do.

@erikinthebakery

Player A: has a base Sloop with nothing too fancy customized.
Player B: has a Galeion, which he/she has customized and made to look cool and unique.
Player A: wants to join Player B and but can't without Player C.
Player C: wants to take out his/her own Sloop because it is also very awesome and he/she prefers its sailing style and small frame.
Player D: likes playing on Player Cs ship because its easier and he/she thinks is more fun.

Right now the only way these players can play together is to join the friend with the Galeion. Even if they all wanted to take out their own ship they couldn't play together, they are forced into a role that only half of them wanted, and they are forced to take out 1 persons ship. To me this is a issue that needs to be resolved, as every one should have the right to take out his/her own ship, and display its cool customizations for the whole party to see and enjoy. Yes some friends will simply want to join others in helping crew the ship, other friends will want to take out their own ships, and the game should be respectful of those desires. I understand there does need to be a cap here, but I also think there is plenty of room for improvements on this subject.

There is also no way to view your friends ships without having to leave and re-join another server together. You cannot simply spawn in your friends ships, or even replace the ship your crew is using. All in all the whole process isn't very group friendly.

@ethnine there already exists a solution to the scenario you outlined, it's called learning to compromise and taking turns with your friends.

I'm sorry if that sounds overly harsh, but I really don't see a problem there. No game caters for every possible group setup, and typically some members of a group have to put aside their own desires to fulfill others on that occasion, for example playing a particular mode that isn't their favourite because the last time they did choose, or in some groups even playing an entirely different game to what they really wanted to play. I know I've done both, among others, in my time.

Though as said, I definitely agree something should be done to remove the need to back out to the menu to form / modify crews themselves.

@oldmansutii Hmm, I wouldn't think a game designed to be a co-op game would force you into compromising the way you play with your friends. I am sorry but I think you are extremely off base in your statements concerning this subject. However, if that is how you like to play with your friends then fine I have no issue with that. But this post is about how I (among many others) would like to play with friends, you are welcome to scroll up and see that many agree that there should be some changes and adjustments made concerning the subject and the current system. I am sorry if that seems overly harsh but I really don't see the point to your compromises.

I am glad we found some common ground in the fact you think there needs to be changes in how the crew manages its vessels and overall group gameplay. I would like to think what the majority of us in here desires is just an extension of that. I agree that this whole process needs to be held to a standard. We already know the current system is nothing but a place holder anyhow, so whatever the final system is I hope it encourages fun group play. As it should.

EDIT: I've not taken turns with my friends in a video game since playing Mario on my N64.....

@ethnine taking turns is more than just who's currently got the controller, and if you've not done so since the N64 days then well, either you've been extremely fortunate in never having a misalignment of objectives, or I kinda feel pity for your friends.

I've also been reading the thread since your OP a couple of days ago, and I'd point out that while your example outlined the difficulties faced by 4 players who may not wish to all be on a Galleon, your gripe the rest of the time was concerning the inability to have larger groups of 6-8 players. And yes, while there are a few who agree with you, there appears to be at least an equal number who do not.

Let's not also forget that only a small percentage of any games community visits, let alone participates in, forum discussion, who knows what the majorities thoughts are on the subject?

Fact is, it is well known that making the experience within Sea of Thieves as fair as possible is of the utmost importance to Rare, and while we can certainly hope that the existing systems that cause inconvenience are improved upon, it mustn't be to the detriment of that fair playing field.

Im not sure if they will fix this in the full game version, you would think they would. In the meantime you can crew up on sloops ( small boat) nuch easier than you can trying to get your friends on the gallion. I understand this is not what you want as I too wanted to try a gallion with my friends, but we decided to try splitting up into smaller boats and we got lucky that for the most part. Enough of us did get on the same server an got to play together. I hope that works for you too if you decide to try it in the closed beta coming up. Or hopefully in this coming beta they will have tuned that matchmaking process.

@oldmansutii Listen, I do not think anyone here is wanting to bring any kind of detriment to SoT. I believe that is quite the opposite in fact, we want to improve it. As we all do. The only way we're going to do that though is to be open minded and willing to listen. If something doesn't work in SoT we will make the developers aware of it, and if something needs attention I would like to think we will make that quite clear as well. My point is not saying anything is just as bad as saying something that is controversial.

All of this to say, fine. Have it your way if you want, let the game go to live with no changes. I am merely trying to be constructive and progressive in expressing my desires to see the game improve, but apparently that isn't welcomed in this community. The simple thought of introducing something that might make the game slightly more difficult for others, but adds so much more to the overall experience, creates so much chaos that I am actually regretting even bringing up the subject.

I saw someone post about adding in more ships for diversity, and that poor OP also was brutally shutdown. The general majority agreed with him, but then a few took over the thread and basically took over the conversation.

I was having a similar conversation with @LogansDadToo earlier. There are a few options we believe should be possible at the outset of a play session:

1. If you’re running a solo sloop, and you’d like to invite a friend or a random player from the session to join you on your solo sloop, you should be able to do so, since the two-person solo is exactly the same setup.

2. If you and another friend, or even three friends, wish to start a session short-handed, with the option of inviting a different friend later, you should have that option. It’s a gamble to start out short-handed, but it’s your ship and your crew.

3. There really needs to be a “walk the plank” option. Locking a player in the brig is a short-term fix to dealing with a troublesome shipmate, but there needs to be a more permanent solution if that player refuses to play along. There are also times when you have a fourth person who you’d like to invite to a crew, but can’t because the spot is being filled by a random player.

This is also something i am worried about. I have a very large friend group of 16 people including myself. We all have been playing together for years. Many types of games. We would love to all be able to play this game together. At the very least have 4-4 person crews and be able to get on the same server together and either help or compete against each other and make videos and stream. The works. As of right now it looks like that might not happen which makes me extremely sad :( at the very least id take private servers so i could play with just friends only. Not asking much there.

Can I ask a few questions to the people wanting to play with 'ALL their friends'?

If you were able to play with ALL your friends at once what would be your game goals? Would you be wanting just to PVP, or Just do quests as a larger group? Or something else?

Would you be expecting to only come across similar size groups of crew and ships when you play? Or still expect to play in the same servers of 1,2, 3-4 crew ships aswell?

If it's only similar size groups of 8-16+ how many engagements would you be expecting seeing as there appears to be a belief the player/ship count and map size will increase. From what I gather around the forums the 'hardcore' pvper's say there isn't enough combat at present. How do you see larger groups sailing a bigger map increasing the combat chances.

If it's expecting to still play in the same servers as single ship crews/groups of 1-4 how do you see RARE balancing this?
Would you then only ever play when all your friends are available? Or would you be happy sailing the same waters if you were the smaller single ship group and other larger' flotilla were around?

If the answer is Private servers where it would basically be just you and your friends, what progression/achievements do you think would be acceptable seeing as this wouldn't be a part of RARE's game universe? Would you still expect to gain progression through the merchant NPC's, customisations unlocks, game achievements etc. (if they were a part of the game) Or would you happily forgo these as part of being able to play only among friends with no real risk/threat from other 'unknowns'?

I fully get that the crew management system needs serious work and totally agree with it. Being able to crew only with your friends without randoms joining before they come online and so on. Ship size and crew size are fine imo. I am just curious as to the wants, needs and expectations of those wanting to play in much larger groups. Thankyou.

@ssjvegeta420 it's not about being an offended fanboy who believes everything the developer does is perfect, it's concern over the negative impact to server balance that larger, or multiple allied, crews would likely have.

@Wargrym well said, I don't think many are consciously aware that there is a limit to the number of players and ships per server.

@salty-muff1nz said in Crew Management [I can't play with friends??]:

At the very least have 4-4 person crews and be able to get on the same server together and either help or compete against each other and make videos and stream. The works. As of right now it looks like that might not happen which makes me extremely sad :( at the very least id take private servers so i could play with just friends only. Not asking much there.

Given the ship count right now, it is very unlikely that you can play with 16 players on the same server. 4 ships in one team would dominate the server (without any challenge... kinda boring, isn't it?) and more than 4 people on a ship makes it almost impossible to sink a ship. So i am pretty sure both is not gonna happen.
I could maybe see a ship for 6 players being possible, but more just doesn't fit to the game.

And private servers not being asked much? There are countless complications coming along with it, it is actually a huge lot to ask and i don't expect it either...

These seems to highlight the points that I made in another thread.

There could be some solutions if you prefer only PvP, like arenas or encounters on a different server made out of teams of 2 or 3 ships depending of the crew sizes, but I don't think that will happen because it is not a part of the Rare Univese.

I think that either a bigger ship than a galleon for 6-8 players should exist and suffice or offer an solution where an up to 2 galleons or bigger ships can co-exist on the server, altough I wouldn't like them seeing in the same team. Different teams but can join together. My solution regarding this matter, was instance hopping until the 2 friend team meets, That... well if there are not like a bazilion instances at the same time, combined with an UI that shows all pirates on that specific instance.

@qm-ginger-beard The no mic thing was never the only issue about solo play or random crew mates. I do agree that 3 friends should be able to crew a galleon if they so wish as a closed group so they don't have to play with a 4th random if they choose not to. I think they would be missing out personally. Met some great crewmates playing with unknowns, some of which didn't want to or couldn't use mic.

The unfairness arguement works both ways. It's just unfair the crew cap is 4, just the way it is. Am sure whatever the cap is, some would see it as so. I agree though, no solo player should call 'unfair' when faced by larger numbers. Most infact don't. People tend to notice the negative posts more. The posts that complain about being killed by a 4man galleon crew. The don't notice the other posts where a solo player sinks the galleon, kills the crew and happily takes the treasure. Or the posts where the 4man crew is incredulous that they were beaten by a solo sloop, that the game is unfair and unbalanced because of course they should have won simply because they were bigger and more numerous.

I have been outnumbered numerous times, enjoyed every minute of it. Been in a 4 galleon battle where we seemed to be focussed by the others and still came out on top. Of course you get sunk sometimes, it's what happens. Organically created mass engagements are fun as hell.

Rare gave there reasons for crew limits in a vod somewhere. Like everthing else in the alpha/beta am sure it is something they look at and reassess from time to time. Again the arguement between 4-6 players is not a simple straight forward on. It has a cascade effect on the rest of the game. Ship numbers, regularity of sightings etc. The more friends you add, the less ships you see. Those wanting more battles, with more crew, with (in their eyes) more chance of winning thanks to numerical advantage end up disappointed. Those wanting to feel safer doing quests as a larger group, see less ships, more successful questing, advance through the progression system etc. Others not happy that pve'ers won't fight, that pvp sucks, isn't enough, game sucks or is boring because lack of pvp, need more pvp, lets make bigger fleets, bigger crews to make bigger, 'better' battles. And around we go again.

Again, am just curious as to what people expect if/when they get their super size fleets and crews, what they want to use them for and what they are willing to give up as a consequence of getting what they (think they) deserve from this game.

@katttruewalker said in Crew Management [I can't play with friends??]:

@wargrym
There's a quote here by Joe Neate around crew size and why it was set around 4/5 - this isn't to say it's set in stone and the interview was some time ago.

I'd like to see some flexibility around crew management as well as it being in game - much like @Lucky-Capt-Jack mentions above.

I could be wrong but I don't believe the number of ships per server has ever been discussed by Rare and as such is likely still covered by the NDA. From what Joe has said they are still trying to strike a good balance between encounters being too few and too frequent, given that the premise is Sea of Thieves is 'not a boating lake'.

“When it comes to bigger crew sizes, we experimented a lot with it,” said Neate. “We’ve always wanted the relationships to feel personal between individuals in a crew. Once that crew size gets too big, you start losing that, and you almost get people breaking out into separate groups. We don’t want to go much bigger than what we’re showing here at all. This is kind of one of the bigger ships that we’re showing here, and so that kind of crew size, four or five, is about right for that kind of ship. That’s what we’ve tested and tested, so we feel real good about that [crew size].”

So I really don't see any reason why 4-8 would be too much to ask for then. I also fail to see how more ships could influence the servers performance if there is already a ship cap in place? Like you said, the numbers are likely protected by NDA and even if they weren't I wouldn't know them. But I am pretty certain that a cap on the number of ships per-server could be implemented, if its not already. Meaning if my crew mate wanted to spawn in his snazzy looking sloop he could, as long as there was a ship space available. And if not, we could just move servers.

As a Dockhand and a person that has played this game a lot, I am sure you too have the desire to play with your friends, and whether you admit it or not what we've currently been shown has its limits. I am not suggesting we completely remove these restrictions, but maybe make it less of a box we have to conform too, and more of an octagon we can adjust in. Does that make any sense?

And reading what you just posted doesn't seem to discourage this possibility, it actually suggests that the crew size could increase.