I almost wish this didn't look so good so I wouldn't get so excited about concepts that might not even make the game.
5 Ship Types for Sea of Thieves (Speculation /Graphic)
everthing seems well done, except maybe the Man o' war. i think it should be faster, because a slower ship would have a larger turning radius, so there is really no need to make it slower.
EDIT: in general, the speed of all ships should determine their turning radius as well; if a ship has a faster max speed, then the turning radius should be larger, if the ship has a slower max speed, then the turning radius should be shorter.
I like what you did here, you really put a lot of thought into it, and some art work. Some of the ship choices are unusual. Sloop is fine and against the wind, should outrun the other larger ships. The junk is an unusual choice as I do not see where it fits into piracy. From what I read it was a ship that saw most of its use, even today, around China and Japan, not the Spanish Main. Frigates tend to be 3 mast ships and operated by military or pirate hunters. They were smaller and slightly more maneuverable than a galleon, and were more heavily armed. They were basically war ships. The man o war is again, a warship, not exactly a ship that pirates would be using. Again, I like where you were going with this.
Sloop, just as it is now, 2 guns, 1-2 person ship, highly maneuverable.
Brig, 2 mast ship, 2-3 people, 4 guns, less maneuverable than a sloop.
Barque, 3 mast ship, 3-4 people 6 guns, less maneuverable than the sloop and brig but faster than both with the wind. If I am not mistaken this was the preferred ship for pirates because of its balance of size, maneuverability, and firepower.
Galleon, just as it is now, 8 guns, 4-6 people.
Frigate, 3 mast ship, 12 guns, 4-6 people, smaller and slightly more maneuverable than a galleon. Since it is a warship it would be reserved for military or bounty hunting duties.
This is dependent on whether Rare intends to allow a 6 person or odd number crews and whether they will ever create a military or bounty hunting vendor.@Cows-n-Muffins I do like the idea of adding that sail, but Galleons clearly had that as well and Rare made a decision not to include it and instead have the prow as more of a social and boarding space. I personally wouldn't mind seeing another sail there on multiple ships but it may be part of their gameplay design.
@ODS7-117 Thats an interesting idea, perhaps I should take @Mr-Pontiac421HO 's idea and ditch the Junk, and have the 2-3 player ship be the Brig and the 3-4 Ship be the Frigate and give it 3 masts.
My goal with this wasn't so much realism as it was having a variety of**Meaningful Gameplay. I picked ships that I felt best represented meaningful differences in gameplay and gameplay styles for different player counts, hence something more exotic like a Junk. I think if we get super technical with only slight differences in speed and sail shape to represent realism we are splitting hairs and missing the point, especially for a game like this that prioritizes gameplay over realism.
The question to me is: What is a unique and aspirational gameplay pirate experience for this player count, and what ship best meets that idea. Exp: A Brig is a good choice for players looking to quickly move merchant goods between outposts, A Junk is a great ship for small tactical crews who want to use the sea and terrain to their advantage. The Man O' War may not have been used by pirates realistically, but commanding a huge ship brimming with guns that blows smaller ships out of the water is very aspirational (At least for me). It's the "Big Catch". Before we get too hung up on splitting hairs for realism, I think its the style of this game to focus instead on creating meaningful pirate gameplay that enables different types of players to live out those dreams.I play games like Naval Action and Blackwake that embody that realism and I like those games, but SoT has made a decision to have a different tone. I think we are already pushing it asking for more than the 2 ships that already exist (They may just settle on having a "small" and a "big" one) The reason I made this chart and put the work into it that I did was to make an argument for a feasible meta for SoT that contained a variety of ships with meaningful gameplay differences. I felt like I was already splitting hairs by having two ships between Sloop and Galleon.
@daftPirate I hear you... Thats why I spent so much time on this, to make a good case to the community and developers that SoT can thrive on a 5 ship meta game.
I really appreciate all of your great feedback guys, I put a lot of work into this so it means a lot to me that you are all putting a lot of thought into your responses. Hopefully if something like this isnt already planned for the game we can make a good case to Rare that we the players would love this!
@shoothere4exp as 4 player team i would never pick galeon. Frigate on this art is much better and man o war is something what noone will pick. This will be good only for make a nice screenshot according to your legend.
Junk and frigate are best ships
Man O War is useless same as sloop
Galleon is in the middle.Anyway really good job, nice minimalist design!
Piracy was a thing on every continent and I don't know why everyone thinks this game has to take place on the Spanish main. The junk is a different style of ship due mostly to the sails.
I'm thinking the man-o-war should probably carry more than 6 people myself. Seems like too much ship to be managed by 6 people. One of the difficulties in operating it is the bed for team work after all.
My only problem is the lack of jib rigged / bermuda rigged ships. Technically the sloop should be bermuda rigged and the rigging of a junk is similar in effect. Should add schooner and clipper ship just for crosswind sailing variety.
@shoothere4exp I play naval action too, but sadly I'm on the pirate nation which isn't doing so well lol. I do hope they add jibs to the ships in sea of thieves, because the ships masts just look empty to me without all the sails. They could just connect the jibs to the hooks for raising and lower sails or they could make jibs as a speed upgrade thing.
Love this drawing but im not fan of the junk... because it's a junk... I would prefer see a flute or cavavelle... something more piraty... , the figate should be between the galleon and the man of war (with 5 canons) and instead you call the actual frigate a corvette. (little ps: frigate and corvette should be only one deck below with no back cabin to respect a bit more their actual design)... (the speed and turning of your frigate is cheating.... definitly the stronger ship of your list) It might be more balance to make more the boat is big faster it goes but slower it turn... (even its not the reality) ... in my opinion... or every body will just dodge the man O war with no difficulty... I love the way you just put one more cannon and a different number of teamate ... like that when you are 4 for example you got 2 choice of ship you can pick with different gameplay one to an other... Still i beleve it will be great to do a 6-7 and a 7-8 players ship... the 7-8 would be the Man O war the 5-6 can be a frigate and 6-7 a galleon of war for example.
by the way still you job is great!! good work ! :D
@casesugar401098 said in 5 Ship Types for Sea of Thieves (Speculation /Graphic):
Piracy was a thing on every continent and I don't know why everyone thinks this game has to take place on the Spanish main. The junk is a different style of ship due mostly to the sails.
I'm thinking the man-o-war should probably carry more than 6 people myself. Seems like too much ship to be managed by 6 people. One of the difficulties in operating it is the bed for team work after all.
there is even pirate nowaday's with zodiac... still i don t want to see this kind of pirate boat in sea of thieves... if it will have a choice of 20 boats +... yes i will not mind one junk is put in it. But if we got 4-5 boats max ... no i dont want to cross junk in every corner... Look for a shooner !!! this was a pirate boat!!!
Love the art and simplicity of the ships displayed, matching the Sea of Thieves theme very well.
Will keep my fingers crossed, we might expect more ships in the future, but I'm not betting any money on it yet :)I can however can't quite understand the reasoning behind your ship difficulty rating, where as I assume more stars indicate being better, higher, stronger.
Rare is advertising the solo sloop choice, being the most difficult one and only for the experienced players who like a challenge.
I understand there reasoning, behind this, for playing solo, isn't easy mode, your tasked to do everything alone, keeping an eye out on the horizon constantly looking for possible danger and all this will need to be combined with voyages that also ramp up in challenges.
Any conflict encountered along the way, that isn't a solo sloop, will have more man power and or fire power, so if anything the difficulty rating is inverted.
Having more players, reduce the difficulty level as more roles can be done at the same time and divided among the available crew members, that players need to co-ordinate well with one another to make this work, that's a different story :)PATCHED IMAGE: REVISION 2!!!
Patch Notes:
JUNK
-1 Max SpeedBRIG
+1 Max Speed
-2 Turning*Brig and Junk are now highly specialized, mirror opposites
Galleon
+1 Speed*Galleon now most well rounded and versatile ship in this Meta
Man O' War
+2 Turning
*Added Heavy Cannons (H) Below Deck, to compensate for porthole limiting gun elevation
*Heavy Cannons create larger blast radius, and larger holes (faster sinking)
*Inventory of Heavy Cannonballs added to lower deck
*Added Spritsail to front of Ship, to increase sailing workload for CrewThoughts?
@Prybar-Bas although they are saying solo sloop to be more difficult, larger ships and crews should not be overpowered when it comes to sea battles. otherwise it's a game that are meant for group play which not everyone can do. sailing solo maybe difficult but i think the sloop should have a speed advantage or a good acceleration advantage compared to the other ships so they can get the **** out of there if danger arises.
@ShootHere4EXP i love the concepts. 5 ships i think should be the max. but i feel balancing is crucial. more details to the ratings need to be involved. like acceleration and speed. fire power (cannons) but also boat strength. difficulty is a good rating but that needs a blend between amount of sails that need work, visibility, (sloop can be steered and have visibility but other ships are blocked by the sails requiring someone to assist at the front). great ideas, would love expanding on it. love the design of the concept art too.
@Prybar-Bas I based the difficulty rating on a couple things:
- Proximity of inventory to one another
- Speed of raising capstan
- Number of sails to manage
- Distances between tasks
- Number of decks to traverse when bailing
@wickedfool Thank you! I hope they will
@wTurok my difficulty doesnt factor crew size, just the items above. A galleon is harder to sail than a sloop due to factors above, but if you have a good crew it balances out.
@avecrux I've boosted the Man O' War in latest patched image, check it out and see what you think
@HC-King-Luis I don't think boat strength is a factor because hull strength is universally the same between all ships from what I can tell. Time to sink is different. I'm glad you like the artwork! And perhaps I do need another category added to the stats.
General Response
My goal is to make the argument for a 5 Ship Meta game in Sea of Thieves, from 1 player up to 6 players. I don't see Rare adding anymore than 6 players to a crew so thats why I cut it off there.The question then is, what 5 pirate ships best represent uniquely different and meaningful playstyles across 1-6 players
That is why I'm not interested in splitting hairs between triangle and square sails, between frigates and brigs and broques and schooners, to the average player the Brig I have currently embodies the playstyles of those 4. Remember this is Sea of Thieves we are talking about not Naval Action, as much as I would like to see a billion different ship types my hypothesis is that this game can sustain at most a 5 Ship Meta (If we can even get that). So the question is then, what 5 will it be?
- How do you make sure each ship type is unique and not redundant in gameplay?
- How do you make sure the ship types are easily distinguishable from one another, so that all players can easily identify the type of ship they are facing and the play-styles associated with it. (think Classes in Battlefield)
*Ex: The Junk's unique sails represent a ship with unique manuevering capabilities. The Man O' War's multiple decks represent a huge ship brimming with guns. The Brig's tall sails to its small sleek frame represent speed. Etc
regarding uniqueness between ships for visual:
- visibility from the wheel.
- i'm sure customization of every part of the ship would be included.
- ships having a rear deck from the captains quarters.
- different style hulls (not sure of correct terms) long point to walk on vs short.
for each ship to not be redundant:
- mentioned in a video, but the sloop has less wheel turns than the other ships.
- different routes and paths to get around the ship. IE: stairs in different locations.
- maybe how smaller ships and larger ones handle waves could be a thing.
@shoothere4exp I'd suggest maybe vary the lower deck cannons to be fired with the melee button rather than aimed and standard not heavy. This makes them a specialised feature for broadside only but maintains their ballance otherwise you'd need to design the new cannon, cannonball and the physics related with firing, dropoff and impact.
It's alot of design change for the one ship is my thought.@shoothere4exp I get the logic behind the slower ship having better turning, but a man-o-war able to turn it's cannons so easily would be pretty crazy. I guess it would just be the ship no one attackes and everyone can outrun.
Balance is a difficult task, honestly I'd leave it up to Rare to figure that out. One thing I read about the junk rig sails though. They are faster with the wind and slower against the wind than the Bermuda rig.
However these square rigs I have no idea about.
@irflow-atom Ahoy there!
Both the alpha and closed beta are over, there are no live sessions running currently. The only next guaranteed play time is launch day, March 20th!
But there may be a future announcement on a future open beta closer to launch - but we haven't heard anything about this yet.
Hope to see you out on the seas then!
@touchdown1504 maybe just add o couple of extra cannon hole thingys on the 2nd deck down for the purpose of emptying water
@shoothere4exp I'd be over the moon to see this implemented. Even if they were dead set on not having more ship playstyles, some of this could be implemented as dramatically different "skins". I'd suggest adding a link to this updated post in your original so people don't have to search for it. Really great job on these concepts.
@laughsmaniacaly said in 5 Ship Types for Sea of Thieves (Speculation /Graphic):
@shoothere4exp I'd suggest maybe vary the lower deck cannons to be fired with the melee button rather than aimed and standard not heavy.
This is a neat idea, you can do that in blackwake and it works when ships are close.
What if all the Cannons below deck can be fired by a single pirate using the melee, and basically it starts a chain reaction firing all the way down the deck? He has to coordinate with the pirates above deck to know when to fire hes practically blind, but if its well timed it can be devastating.
@shoothere4exp like 4 cannons being operated by one player? That sounds really op even if they can't be aimed.
@shoothere4exp i feel this mechanic would lend itself well to all cannons. Having the ability to run down the length of your ship hitting each cannon on the way so you don't need to manually aim, if lined up well to begin with, could lead to some great broadside encounters and as you've pointed out, you'd be nearly blind down there. You'd also have to reload each cannon one by one to re prep the broadside but i can imagine this adding such a good feeling during ship combat.
If implemented though, I'd suggest looking to add more cannons on more ships so this was more a generic feature rather than a ship specific one.
@assasslns-weed yes but tha ten canons per side and we need mor smaller ship between the other like a brigantin to get a closer split between the ships
@LaughsManiacaly @CaseSugar401098 its potentially OP, but would really only be useful for very up close encounters. Its just a thought to play around with, Pirates Online used to have a feature where the captain controlled all the below deck broadside guns and the crew fired the deck guns. I doubt this would ever be in the game especially since it only makes sense on 1 ship, but i find it intriguing nontheless.
Right now I still prefer the idea that they are operated by individual crew-members, they're limited in elevation but they shoot a heavy shot. This would add another layer of inventory management to Men O War (increased difficulty), but also allow the ship to relaly specialize in devastating broadsides.
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