Gold Hoarder vs Merchant missions

  • ETNWill
    Marauder
    Insider

    EDIT: I've edited this post to put the results of the discussion and ideas generated at the top... the original post is still below.

    so yes, that's the way they work :) thanks for the responses. Many people have accurately pointed out that the Merchant missions are much more lucrative than GH missions so even though it takes more time to do only 1 thing, that thing is worth a lot more money so in terms of a time spent to gold returned investment Merchant missions are better than GH.
    Additional notes:
    One interesting point is that if you're doing a Merchant mission and another ship attacks you, them stealing your chickens/pigs/whatever crates does them no real good.... versus GH missions where they can steal your chests and profit. So you're really not "losing as much" as if you were running around doing GH missions and stocking up chests. (@SillyColt302271 )
    For me personally the most annoying aspect of Merchant missions is the back-and-forth of buying missions, voting to approve, then going BACK for cages, then back to the ship. Several people in this thread have offered interesting suggestions about that, such as:
    -crates stick around even if you cancel a mission so you could theoretically buy/activate mission, store the crates on your ship and rinse/repeat until you have a bunch of empty crates stored up. (@GreenCamillion1 & @Joda1123)
    -you could further pre-load Merhant mission resources by following the above to stock up a bunch of crates then run around doing other missions or just picking up a lot of various chickens/pigs/etc and storing them on your boat. Whenever you feel like it THEN vote/activate Merchant mission and you might already have the pigs/chickens/etc you need stored on your boat just said to destination outpost and turn them in. (@KigreTheViking )
    *DON'T FORGET! Pigs can starve. if you hear them squealing loudly, weirdly and constantly (vs normal intermittent oinking) you need to feed them a banana (at least that's how it worked in the final beta).

    of course you can vary the above concepts to your own liking / play style.

    Hope this helps mateys!

    ORIGINAL POST: I'm curious if I missed something about these missions or if I have this figured out correctly... Let's say you have a crew of 4 people. '

    For Gold Hoarder missions, everyone buys 2 (total of 8 missions) then you can immediately depart. throw a mission, vote, complete mission, throw another one, vote, rinse repeat. You can stay out gathering chests for all 8 missions if you want, go to an outpost and sell them anytime.

    For Merchant missions however... you must buy the missions (fine). Now 3/4 of you must go to the ship to vote. Then everyone has to go back to the merchant and pick up a cage... then BACK to the boat before setting sail (btw right there? that's annoying).
    Unlike the GH missions, Merchant isn't complete until you sell the items back at the appropriate outpost. So there's much more wasted time because instead of staying out and doing multiple missions you have to fully complete 1 mission going back to a specific outpost (which always seems to be directly upwind I might add).
    So you all go and sell your cages and complete the mission. Yay! Now 3/4 of you have to go BACK to the boat and vote on a new mission then go BACK to the merchant and pick up a cage and BACK to the boat to depart. One. mission. at. a. time.

    Is this REALLY how it works? Merchant missions seem WAY more annoying than GH... or am I missing something that would increase the convenience factor?

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  • UvealLynx
    Master
    Insider

    No, that sounds about right. Just poor design, I'm afraid

  • Sytoki
    Marauder
    Insider

    I actually find merchant missions more efficient for money-collecting than gold hoarders. They give more gold per voyage so my crew would get a bunch of cages, get a bunch of chickens, and proceed to sell from outpost to outpost cashing them in. Furthermore, along the way we would find shipwrecks, random chests on islands, and other ships. Since gold hoarders is the only faction that you don't need a voyage to cash in the item, it makes more sense to me to work on merchant, which requires specific things, and find some chests along the way. Also strongholds. Those will be fun to farm.

  • theTimone
    Marauder

    That's why the merchant voyages give u more gold i guess, although I also think that the fact that you have to first vote for the voyage in order to pick up the crates is really inconvenient.

  • Sir Lancia
    Seafarer

    I'm not going to comment on how they feel compared to the GH missions.
    But I can say that they are at least as effective for gold making. If not more.

    Just keep throwing the MA voyages away until you find some that tell you to catch golden animals. (Really not rare, we got 3-4 in a row I believe). Each one of these golden animals net you a sexy 1700 gold. For about 5-10 minutes of sailing to the nearest island with the appropriate animal and then to the appropriate outpost. Might need some time to learn which islands have which animals though.

    Hugs 'n' kisses
    Cpt. Lancia

  • OneEyedHeathen
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    The mission is not only to get the goods but to deliver in a timely fashion for a bonus. This is why it stays on the table until returned. I am fine with this, but certainly see how some view it as tedious. Some have suggested maybe making it a "secondary" mission that is in your maps radial menu after activating, and can be active at the same time as other missions. I like that idea a lot, but the games tech and services might not support it.

    I do agree going to the ship to vote, and then getting crates is tedious but not as bad on a 4 man gelleon. I wonder how this could be reworked without spamming the servers with crates and cages. (Which I imagine is a factor as to why its done this way)

  • GreenCamillion1
    Captain
    Insider

    Little trick, Start a Merchant voyage at the outpost, collect cage, and Cancelled Voyage, do it as many times u want.
    Do some gold hoarder mission till you get a good chest to turn in, an then start a merchant voyage before heading to port.

  • LONEGOATKNIFER
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @etnwill said in Gold Hoarder vs Merchant missions:

    Unlike the GH missions, Merchant isn't complete until you sell the items back at the appropriate outpost. So there's much more wasted time because instead of staying out and doing multiple missions you have to fully complete 1 mission going back to a specific outpost (which always seems to be directly upwind I might add).

    Is going to one island to pick up all the cargo then going to the outpost to drop it all off that much slower than going to half a dozen islands to solve riddles and dig up chests?

  • Nightmare247365
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    I think your strategy will find you in some trouble. GH is not meant to go quest to quest to quest to turn them in. It is a danger to hold that many both from other pirates and then the Kraken. It makes just as much sense to get 2-3 chests and drop them off as it does to get 1 merchant quest for money and drop it off.

    Just know that it is not how quickly you rank up, but it is how smart of a pirate you are to get out of situations.

  • ETNWill
    Marauder
    Insider

    @greencamillion1 good idea !!

  • ETNWill
    Marauder
    Insider

    @lonegoatknifer said in Gold Hoarder vs Merchant missions:

    Is going to one island to pick up all the cargo then going to the outpost to drop it all off that much slower than going to half a dozen islands to solve riddles and dig up chests?

    I'm not saying any particular play style is right or wrong, but my buddies and I prefer to have the variety and option of being able to do multiple missions if we want versus being forced to do one thing and go to a particular destination before we can do anything else. that's all.

    maybe without the whole redundant back-and-forth-vote-cages thing it wouldn't be as annoying

  • Joda1123
    Ship Mate

    @elite-assasin87 how can you get a bunch of cages. You only get the needed amount.

  • ClutchaChu

    @etnwill said in Gold Hoarder vs Merchant missions:

    I'm curious if I missed something about these missions or if I have this figured out correctly... Let's say you have a crew of 4 people. '

    For Gold Hoarder missions, everyone buys 2 (total of 8 missions) then you can immediately depart. throw a mission, vote, complete mission, throw another one, vote, rinse repeat. You can stay out gathering chests for all 8 missions if you want, go to an outpost and sell them anytime.

    For Merchant missions however... you must buy the missions (fine). Now 3/4 of you must go to the ship to vote. Then everyone has to go back to the merchant and pick up a cage... then BACK to the boat before setting sail (btw right there? that's annoying).
    Unlike the GH missions, Merchant isn't complete until you sell the items back at the appropriate outpost. So there's much more wasted time because instead of staying out and doing multiple missions you have to fully complete 1 mission going back to a specific outpost (which always seems to be directly upwind I might add).
    So you all go and sell your cages and complete the mission. Yay! Now 3/4 of you have to go BACK to the boat and vote on a new mission then go BACK to the merchant and pick up a cage and BACK to the boat to depart. One. mission. at. a. time.

    Is this REALLY how it works? Merchant missions seem WAY more annoying than GH... or am I missing something that would increase the convenience factor?

    You are indeed correct, at present this is how they work, hopefully Rare will take a look into this and try to streamline the process a bit, perhaps by implementing a system where once you start the merchant voyage the merchant gives you a "master crate" which, when unpacked back on your ship, provides all the crates you'll need for the voyage to eliminate some of the back and forth you're describing.

  • LONEGOATKNIFER
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @etnwill said in Gold Hoarder vs Merchant missions:

    I'm not saying any particular play style is right or wrong, but my buddies and I prefer to have the variety and option of being able to do multiple missions if we want versus being forced to do one thing and go to a particular destination before we can do anything else. that's all.

    maybe without the whole redundant back-and-forth-vote-cages thing it wouldn't be as annoying

    I think you missed my point. Lets say you start a Gold Hoarder voyage and it has 5 maps/riddles you need to do. You have to do all 5 of those maps (i.e. go to 5 islands) before you can start the next voyage. If you start a Merchant Alliance voyage you can usually finish the voyage by going to one large island, to find the required cargo, and then to the outpost to sell it. My point is, you're not being more efficient by doing 5 Gold Hoarder voyages before stopping at the outpost vs doing 5 Merchant voyages and going to 5 outposts. If you do a lot of shopping at every stop, then yes, that will add a lot of time.

    @ClutchaChu That back and forth of getting the cages isn't that bad if you anchor the ship close to the where the merchants are. Unless you're cancelling voyages to get extra cages.

  • GreyScissors
    Master
    Founder

    You have all that right. The Merchant missions are more suited to solo players since they can be more organized and need to return their loot more often anyway. I do think that the method of getting cages needs to be changed, though. It is solely frustrating and doesn’t add a challenge or any other positive aspect.

  • lMartn
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    Not sure if anyone's suggested it, but there should really just be a stack of cages onboard your ship that you can only take if you have an active merchant mission. just move the cage pickup system from the merchant onto your boat. There's plenty of room to make this work (makes as much sense as 100 cannonballs in one barrel) plus there's lots of empty barrels on the ships that can be removed as they are never used. Any cages taken from this stack are tied to the current mission.

    In regards to how to get them back if they are lost, it could easily just be a simple vote system like the voyages where if you loose your cages you can simply de-spawn the previous cages and lift a couple more.

    Now how to tackle the problem of constantly returning to an outpost after every voyage is interesting, as this would require a rework of the merchant voyages altogether. Either gold hoarder and order of souls voyages are changed to be treated the same way (Would suck) or else the merchant voyages are "Complete" when you pickup the animals just like the chest voyages are. The checklist could stay in your inventory just like a message from a bottle as a reminder of what you completed.

    It's very likely they've thought of something since the last build and are implementing it so i'd like to hear from an employee if they have any info otherwise we'll wait and see at launch :)

  • Saglant777
    Captain
    Founder

    I got into the habit of starting the Merchant quest then storing Balls, Planks & Bananas and then running round ther outpost to restock before picking up a crate, then repeating for the second crate.
    True I never had the need for all the materials while solo in the Beta, except I once did get a Merchant supply 50 cannonball quest from a bottle which was easy to do having done the material harvesting. In addition feeding pigs with Bananas was not a problem.

  • Sytoki
    Marauder
    Insider

    @joda1123 Late response but I'll let you know to make it easier (unless they patch it) buy your merchant voyages, start one, get the cages, then cancel voyage. Rinse repeat till you have 20 cages and you're set to actually do a voyage. Only efficient if one of your buddies doesn't upgrade past free missions

  • BaronStinkbeard
    Marauder

    Merchant missions are also worth more...

    For example I did one this beta. I got a mission to get a red spotted chicken and black plumed one. The red chicken got 350 gold on turn in and the black one gave another 350 and then 1100 for mission complete. Yeah they take more time but they are worth way more...

  • Joda1123
    Ship Mate

    @elite-assasin87 if you cage a chicken or pig can you just sell it at the outpost even when the quest don't need them. So can you sell animals outside from a quest.

  • ETNWill
    Marauder
    Insider

    @lonegoatknifer said

    I think you missed my point....

    I understood you mate, no worries. my point wasn't about efficiency and monetary reward... as you say the merchant missions did pay better per time spent than GH missions.
    My point was having the option to do extra things vs not being allowed to.

    If I'm doing GH missions, as soon as we dig up that chest the mission completes and we can choose to go back to outpost to sell OR activate another one and do it.
    on a M mission the mission doesn't even complete until you go back to the outpost to sell, which is just a b****r.
    This is personal preference of course but I'm hoping devs read these threads and consider...
    If the Merchant mission "completed" as soon as all the items were collected (in the same way a GH mission completes when the chest is dug up) then on the way to the outpost to sell the items we could activate another mission and detour if we wanted to, gathering more things to sell along the way in the same way you can if you're doing exclusively GH missions. You don't get the monetary reward until you actually sell the items back, just like with GH.

    anyway again not saying anybody is right/wrong/better/worse but it would be nice to have the choice :)

    on the other hand this might all be pointless since it's only "horizontal progression" anybody who plays the game a lot are going to wind up buying everything we want pretty quickly and then it will be pointless to go on "missions" at all and earn more gold if you already have everything you want. So maybe it's better that they slow us down and make us go on more missions

  • LONEGOATKNIFER
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    I was responding to this to try and clarify that you aren't wasting time by only being able to do one merchant voyage before going to the outpost.

    @etnwill said in Gold Hoarder vs Merchant missions:

    So there's much more wasted time because instead of staying out and doing multiple missions you have to fully complete 1 mission going back to a specific outpost (which always seems to be directly upwind I might add).

    Btw don't look at the outpost in a merchant voyage as an end destination but as if it was just the second map in the Gold Hoarder voyage. You can always collect extra cages so you can start a merchant voyage once you are out at sea (after you've done a soul or gold voyage) if you really want to do more than one voyage between outpost stops.

  • SillyColt302271

    @etnwill said in Gold Hoarder vs Merchant missions:

    I'm curious if I missed something about these missions or if I have this figured out correctly... Let's say you have a crew of 4 people. '

    For Gold Hoarder missions, everyone buys 2 (total of 8 missions) then you can immediately depart. throw a mission, vote, complete mission, throw another one, vote, rinse repeat. You can stay out gathering chests for all 8 missions if you want, go to an outpost and sell them anytime.

    For Merchant missions however... you must buy the missions (fine). Now 3/4 of you must go to the ship to vote. Then everyone has to go back to the merchant and pick up a cage... then BACK to the boat before setting sail (btw right there? that's annoying).
    Unlike the GH missions, Merchant isn't complete until you sell the items back at the appropriate outpost. So there's much more wasted time because instead of staying out and doing multiple missions you have to fully complete 1 mission going back to a specific outpost (which always seems to be directly upwind I might add).
    So you all go and sell your cages and complete the mission. Yay! Now 3/4 of you have to go BACK to the boat and vote on a new mission then go BACK to the merchant and pick up a cage and BACK to the boat to depart. One. mission. at. a. time.

    Is this REALLY how it works? Merchant missions seem WAY more annoying than GH... or am I missing something that would increase the convenience factor?

    Well anybody that takes your stuff from a merchant quest can’t tirn it on like chests so that is one really good thing about the merchant quests. I don’t mind wasting time if others Time gets wasted as well 😂😂😂

  • LONEGOATKNIFER
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @sillycolt302271 They could use it in their own voyages.

  • Roymachinez
    Marauder

    @sir-lancia So, I was having difficulty with this. How do you get rid of a voyage once you've taken it without completing?

  • LONEGOATKNIFER
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @roymachinez You vote to cancel the same way you vote to take it.

  • Roymachinez
    Marauder

    @lonegoatknifer Oh, so you have to vote to take it, then vote to cancel it. Well, of course that makes sense because otherwise you wouldn't know if it was golden or not. Should have known that. Thanks!

  • SillyColt302271

    @lonegoatknifer if they want to wait until they get the voyage and have the pig in the boat roll they get it then that is fine. I’ll be busy with my new boat and new voyages to care about that. No where near as easy for them to turn in a chest lol

  • KigreTheViking
    Founder

    @etnwill

    Heres what me and my friend did.
    We took merchant missions, collected the crates and then cancelled.
    Rinse and repeat.

    We had 19 chicken coops and 7 pig crates.
    Then we went out treasure hunting, collected ALL the animals we could.
    When we completed a treasure hunt we started a merchant voyage.
    And as you can probably imagine, we had all the animals we needed and just headed back to the assigned outpost and sold our stuff.

    Worked like a charm but you really dont need as many as we had. ;)
    Also, It was kinda fun playing crate tetris on deck.

  • Sir Lancia
    Seafarer

    @roymachinez You go the table your crew voted for it, and then vote to cancel it with your crew again. Very much the same :D

    Hugs 'n' kisses
    Cpt. Lancia

  • PapaSohan

    @etnwill Parking at the dock properly will decrease the annoyance factor. Also, if done with some smarts, Merchant's missions have far better guaranteed rewards than gold hoarders do.

  • Roymachinez
    Marauder

    @papasohan Any 'smarts' tips aside from just taking a bunch of crates? I had a bit of a difficult time finding chickens the few times I did it. Not sure if they only really pop up on the north west / west area of the map though.

  • LONEGOATKNIFER
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    @roymachinez You have the best chance of finding what you need on large islands.

  • PapaSohan

    @roymachinez We did not use the 'take a bunch of crates' method. My crew is pretty against cheesing in that regard. However, what we did do, was vote to cancel voyages until we got ones that had good, expensive animals in them. The three largest island on the map always have multiple of each type of animal, so we would always set a course for the closest one of those and then spyglass/cannon over to other islands on the way.

  • ETNWill
    Marauder
    Insider

    @sillycolt302271 I hadn't thought about that but it's a really good point!

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