Why the skull fort is still SO frustrating and still needs improvments

  • TwitchRavenseye

    Hello,

    I have some opinions and suggestions for the Skull fort. I want to start by telling two brief story's about the last two interactions I had with skull forts.

    1st- We fought and fought against multiple people at the skull fort. We didn't get the key and another group obtained it. They got on there ship and started to flee. We chased as you would. We chased and continued to bombard them. We chased them to the edge of the map. They intentionally drove out into the red sea and the key was lost after a lot of time pursuing them. We searched the edge of the sea where they went. We waited and they came back and looked for the key. We sunk them again. Still no key.

    2nd interaction - We came in as 2 man sloop. No one was at the fort. We then saw ships starting to appear on the horizon. We fought 1 ship. Then another. Sinking them. Getting back to the island 1 wave later. Galleon rolls in. They take the fort. We fight for it and keep pounding them. They are holding it. We fight and fight. Sink them. fight. Sink the next sloop. Sink another ship that then comes back. In the end we fought the same 3-5 ships that repeatedly came back even with new spawn changes for 4 hours until we finally. After 3 resupplies and not sinking once. As the first people to fight for this Island. We had to fight for so long that this game became so frustrating. for a 12K payout. At that point. It was almost not worth playing. The other guys when we did die on in the ship of death were saying "Its unfair they keep killing us." All I could think was. "Its unfair that after I killed your Galleon. Not once. Not twice. But 3 times. We cant get our earned reward." In the end we won but 4 hours of a persons life for a little mission is really unrewarding and motivating to want to play. Sadly because I feel that the time that goes into doing missions isn't enough of a payout like doing a skull fort.

    Anyways so what are my suggestions beyond the frustrations of being a player.

    Griefing skull forts:

    A. Regarding skull key forts. If a skull keep is completed and the ship is lost to sea or lost to the red zone. Make the key spawn back on the island by the door. Even if it means a random person gets the reward. Its better then greifers who can drive out into the red zone can ruin what everyone is working hard and fighting for. Its as bad as combat logging. Personally I think you should get rid of the "Red outter zones all together. Force people to turn back into the open waters or loose a heavy $$$ amount. Something because its as bad as combat logging. Its easily the most unsportsmanly thing you can do in a game that is geared towards fighting and stealing eachothers loot.

    B. Make the door become Keggable after a specific time of the key not being used in the slot hole. I think if someone can muster a solid 10-20 keys after 30 mins of the keeps door no being open. You should be able to blow it open and steal the treasure. Easily achievable. Best way to solve a skull fort.

    Ways to improve the skull fort:

    I personally found it better that the skull fort happened more frequently. It didn't make it as special. Now its even rarer and when it does pop. Everyone goes for it. Because they know of its worth and value. Its worth 5-6 hours of treasure hunting. Which being the only thing of its kind right now. Without more interesting missions your not willing to bail on to go do a fort. Its causing many people to show up at them. Even with the new changes to the distance of sinking an opponent.

    A: I would make it so that people that sink in a skull fort interaction. 600-800 meters within range of the island. Spawn all the way across the map. Sure you still have time to make it back but it gives the people who did fight and kill and clear the area. A chance to fight some waves and feel like they are going to get it before having to fight again. Especially towards the end.

    B. Boats get moved to another server if your sunk. This option which is harder in development and causes issues to people who stole the key for example when the fort which is a really awesome thing to pull off. Is that they now cannot get back to a boat and causes them to hide it or something and grief as well. Yet this option eliminates whats currently happening. That ships are respawning over and over and just coming to the fort. Not allowing people who are getting the wins a chance to fight it.

    At the end of the day. I'm not sure how you guys can fix this. I would stop doing forts as much if I felt like I had more invested quest lines I wanted to do. But when you currently have the most rewarding thing to do a 3 hour clock to be able to do it. Its just causing every person to do it because currently there isn't anything else to do worth the time to value investment.

    I'll probably hold off now on playing your game much until you get some updates out. I've played a ton up till now. Streamed the game a ton. To which I feel like after a 2-4 hour fight for a skull fort. Just leaves you feeling exhausted and wishing you had released the game with more missions, quests and content.

    Looking forward to the future. Bye.

  • Login To Reply
    31
    Posts
    22.9k
    Views
  • ii AxelForce ii
    Seafarer

    Gonna be honest, didnt read it all. Normally i do before making an argument, but after reading the first paragraph ive come up with a conclusion.
    Replace the word (at the) skull Fort with doing voyages and fort key with loot

    No matter what youre doing or where you are, if you have something worth value people will attack you and when they spawn they will continue to attack so long as you still hold that value

    EDIT: I will add that my opinion if they just spawn a ship with no starting resources it will elminate most of them problem with spawning and returning or atleast make it easier to deal with

  • TommyHangout
    Marauder
    Insider

    Don't see this as Griefing

  • Daddy Sanctus
    Ship Mate
    Insider

    I’ve had some very interesting moments at Skull Forts. My buddy and I cleared one a few nights ago, only to have a Galleon and Sloop working as a team come in and steal it from us. Somehow they were terrible enough to not be able to sink us, but 6v2 resulted in us losing the treasure. I’ve also had the long 2-3 hour battles where the ships just keep coming back over and over.

    I’ve found that when this occurs, it’s always better to team up with another crew and split the loot, rather than spend an eternity trying to do it alone. I’d rather get 6-7k in loot for 30-45min of time, vs 12-14k for 2-3 hours.

    I would agree that if a ship is sunk within X meters of the Skull Fort, they get respawned farther and farther distances from the Skull Fort. While respawn 1 may only be a couple islands away, respawn 2 is numerous islands away, and respawn 3 is practically on the other side of the map. It does get frustrating seeing the same ships attacking repeatedly over and over and over. I understand it’s part of the game, but it just feels frustrating.

  • TwitchRavenseye

    @tommyhangout You clearly haven't fought a 3 hour fight for a skull keep and someone else gets the skull key. Resulting in you chasing them across the map and railing them again and again. Where there last words are "I'm going to die" results in them deciding. "Well if I cant have it. No one can." Sailing into the red sea. That to me is a Grief mechanic. That someone can use. To which I would say is as bad as combat logging. If you cant outsail or outsmart your pursuers. You shouldn't be allowed to throw away the gear/the key. That everyone is chasing you to obtain. I think the red sea is a bad mechanic in general. In a game that is based on being Thieves. Your promoting people when they have no means to be able to continue on. To be able to flip the chessboard. The King can't step off the chessboard. He has to fall over and claim defeat.

  • Admiral Tweedle
    Founder

    @twitchravenseye said: We had to fight for so long that this game became so frustrating. for a 12K payout. At that point. It was almost not worth playing.

    I'm glad for this because it deters teams of players on Discord who hop in and out for the server wide quests.

    p.s. Thanks for this though:

    @twitchravenseye said: We came in as a 2 man sloop...
    Its unfair that I killed your Galleon. Not once. Not twice. But 3 times.

  • Captain Fob4141
    Commander
    Insider

    The key isnt killing them, its about eradicating them so bad that they don't want to fight you again. If they spend 5-7 minutes rolling up and get blown up in 1 minute before even docking up, they won't come back.

  • lotrmith
    Marauder
    Insider

    This is a world pvp event working as intended.

    The loot itself is hardly ever worth the time if you have to get it contested: You will almost certainly make more $$$ for time spent by questing in the same amount of time.

    The true reward is the victory over others and the fun you had in the engagements. I've had engagements both won and lost that were well worth my time. PvP is what you make of it.

  • Cpt Toothpick
    Marauder
    Insider
    Founder

    I see your point, don't agree with all but, one way to fix that feeling of not getting anything out from a fort battle like that could be to give xp or something from acctualy sinking others, but that in turn would also mean the carebears would yell even louder that people are going out of there way to just go around sinking ships insteed of doing voyages to get the reputation.

    In your first example you told us that they had the key on their ship and sailed out to the red sea, I personaly have done that a few times to get chasers off us, BUT a big thing we did they did not know is that we had one of our guys pick up the key and jump out on a close by island stash the key in a random location like a pirate would take his booty and dig a hole in the ground and hide it. Ones we died in the red sea the pursuers got mad ofc but they did know there was no way to get the key now, so they started to go their merry way and do their quests, while we spawned in a new ship, picked up our mate with the key on that island and back to the fort to start collecting the loot.

    My point with this story is that if people get their hands on the key and they manage to set sail, I can almost guarantee that if they really don't want you to get the key, you will never get it.
    edit, this last part is general not meant at OP specific.
    So all in all, don't be that guy that camps behind some rocks closeby thinking people on skullfort have not notice you, waiting for them to get the key it will not work specially now when the people that can't come up with their own plans see how they can do online on youtube or something. And IF a fort is "taken" by others try ones maybe but if you fail, just leave it be it's not worth the time investment for only 13k gold that you can get so quickly anyway.

  • Irhcsajr
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    Gonna say I didn't read any of your rant. Skull forts take 8-10 minutes to complete and are almost too easy. We've done 30ish forts and only lost the loot one time to another crew. Just keep playing and get better at the game.

  • Jacqui O Blades
    Marauder
    Insider

    After experiencing a 3-way galleon battle in which we sunk the keep key bearers, unfortunately with the key, a crewmate of mine suggested that perhaps pirates shouldn't be allowed to leave the island with the key- entering the water would automatically drop it back on the shore. This would I think effectively eliminate all the nonsense of people grabbing the key and fleeing.
    Granted running away is a pretty piratical act, and I'm not knocking the strategy, but someone grabbing the key and taking off (potentially losing it) is a waste of time in my opinion.

  • Nightmare247365
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    Forts should be challenging or at least a challenge. Just because you get there first does not mean you can lay claim to it. Others have options so do you. At what point is that "4 hour" battle not worth it. You have an option to leave too.

  • CaptainFlintkin

    I did over 20 forts never lost the key or the loot. I think the best solution is to remove resources after respawning I already talked about this in another post. The second best is to force migrate people to another server if they sink 1-2 times next to a fort. As for the edge of the map I do think there should be an invisible wall instead of the red sea if you hit it you get massive dmg to your ship.

  • TommyHangout
    Marauder
    Insider

    @twitchravenseye said in Why the skull fort is still SO frustrating and still needs improvments:

    @tommyhangout You clearly haven't fought a 3 hour fight for a skull keep and someone else gets the skull key. Resulting in you chasing them across the map and railing them again and again. Where there last words are "I'm going to die" results in them deciding. "Well if I cant have it. No one can." Sailing into the red sea. That to me is a Grief mechanic. That someone can use. To which I would say is as bad as combat logging. If you cant outsail or outsmart your pursuers. You shouldn't be allowed to throw away the gear/the key. That everyone is chasing you to obtain. I think the red sea is a bad mechanic in general. In a game that is based on being Thieves. Your promoting people when they have no means to be able to continue on. To be able to flip the chessboard. The King can't step off the chessboard. He has to fall over and claim defeat.

    You are correct, I have never spent 3 hours on a fort. We just see things different. Just sounds like strategies that I would never use on both offense and defence.

    Time = Loot. Good luck on the next one.

  • HANKYZA
    Founder

    @twitchravenseye
    Hi There

    we had the same experience this past weekend. i know allot of focus has been made on griefing and a recommendation made to scuttle your ship however i do have a further recommendation when coming to fort battles. I believe per server session a crew should only get a maximum of three ships. IE three lives. upon being sunk for a third time they should then be moved to another instance of the game. we sunk a galleon four times yesterday one with no more canon balls on-board and we still pulled it off. we also had sloops in the mix too. the new re-spawn distance is perfect, as you cannot claim to have been griefed if you continue to come back to the action. i three life ship re-spawn limit would allow for an obtainable victory at the forts.

    i hope the above makes sense and could possibly be added in another way.

    Cheers Hanky

  • Mighty Ace123

    Everything OP describes seems to be the game working as intended?

    Everyone wants loot when that skull appears in the sky, so what do you think is going to happen?

  • SN4RES

    Biggest issue is simply the players mentality.

    Rare themselves marketed the skull forts as a challenging PvE encounter that you will likely need assistance from other players to complete.

    But what we have is a PvP fest because everyone wants the loot for themselves, noone trusts anyone else to work with them so they just fight.

    All this combined with a kill on sight mentality the majority of the player base seems to have.

    The forums are filled with posts of the nature 'We were fighting the fort for the loot and other players also wanted that loot - so we all fought for it and it was rubbish because we didn't win'

    No-one wants to co-operate or share the rewards, so we have this situation, I don't think it's ever going to change no matter how far you increase spawn distance or change mechanics. People like blowing stuff up and want all the loot for themselves (because the game has the word thief in it, so that's what we do now!)

  • Da German420
    Legend
    Insider
    Founder

    we fought yesterday 2 galleons ,n one sloop 2 times,the sloop had a founder sail ,(maybe active forum users?)we sunk them fast cause our captain was pretty good in circlin around them.they never came back except the sloop one time.the ship battles can be fun at the raid ,but yes if it goes for hours its just annoying.

  • DrakeBG757
    Master
    Insider

    If I do a fort and a ship shows up to take my key, and refuse to screw off after chasing me forever- than I have the right to either hide with the key till my attacker screws off, or take it off map to spite them in their greed (especially if it’s multiple ships trying to take what’s mine).

    Also I think each time you sink a ship they should spawn further and further till they eventually are forced out of server after being sunk enough times.

    Most importantly, they need to implement a way to track how long a ship has been fighting at a fort and up the rewards it is holding based on that.

    Frankly I find it amusing to see a bunch of mongs spending WAY too much time doing a fort while my crew eventually makes way more minding my business, but still the game shouldn’t essentially punish you for fighting for loot at a fort.

  • Ghostfire1981
    Vanguard
    Insider

    Actually, when the skull fort is active, that is the best time to sail around and do quests as most of the overly eager PvP crews will be occupied with that for hours if you're lucky. Much more efficient use of grinding time.

    Sure i/we go for skull forts if they are near and no one else seems to be around, but usually its not worth it.

    And about the end of the map, or the red sea.. i like it. If you are sailing around solo, and do not really have the time or possibility to fight off a larger crew, or if they chase you for over 30 minutes, i usually aim for a clear path around the islands towards the red sea, adjust my sails... and go and see a movie/make some food and let the chasers loose and hour or so chasing me, ending up getting nothing from me. And when i get back i just respawn or log out of the game as i have already lost everything. :)

  • SN4RES

    @ghostfire1981 said in Why the skull fort is still SO frustrating and still needs improvments:

    Actually, when the skull fort is active, that is the best time to sail around and do quests as most of the overly eager PvP crews will be occupied with that for hours if you're lucky. Much more efficient use of grinding time.

    Sure i/we go for skull forts if they are near and no one else seems to be around, but usually its not worth it.

    And about the end of the map, or the red sea.. i like it. If you are sailing around solo, and do not really have the time or possibility to fight off a larger crew, or if they chase you for over 30 minutes, i usually aim for a clear path around the islands towards the red sea, adjust my sails... and go and see a movie/make some food and let the chasers loose and hour or so chasing me, ending up getting nothing from me. And when i get back i just respawn or log out of the game as i have already lost everything. :)

    Yup, the best thing about forts is it occupies so many players while they fight endlessly for a measly 12-16k of loot, allowing us to quest in peace and make just as much!

    [Edit] - question to OP, in all of your scenarios you mention other crews turning up and you fighting them. Have you ever tried talking to the other crews and attempting to establish an agreement to co-operate and share the reward?

    In your second scenario especially, you were first to arrive at the fort and noticed others incoming. Seems like an ideal opportunity to try and 'parlay'. Agree to share the loot with the first ship that arrives providing they defend you while your crew takes the fort?

    Or if it's just one ship that turns up - then why not everyone work together, complete the fort in an even quicker time, share the wealth and g**o before others turn up?

  • DURENGO germany

    @twitchravenseye

    This is exact the same thing i was writing about here:

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/53504/sad-but-true

    and here:
    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/53499/are-you-serious-rare-fix-this-problem-asap

    But White Knights won't listen !

    It's not only about forts .. it's in general the fact that it doesn't matter how much you make enemies sink because they always come back....some of them very fast ...some of them not so fast.. at the end it doesn't matter anyways.

  • GreenCamillion1
    Captain
    Insider

    Well since i read you story, here is mine:
    A skull fort pops up, we don't go for it.
    Keep doing the Legendary Voyage, finish up with the 8 maps, an got the last map for the chest.
    An luck would have it ;) we had to pass by the skull fort, at that point it was done!
    The Greedy Galleon didn't saw us coming before it was to late,

    We did a drive by, where I left the wheel, to help cannon, while 2 crew member was in the water with 2 barrels of love.
    30-60 sec after that they sunk, I cant speak for the other galleon, or for you, but for me the fort is not worth it, unless you can do it in peace.
    when that is said, its super BORING to do the skull fort without being contested
    But one thing, with so many ship fighting over the fort, did you try to parlay ??

    More often than not, mostly when i play solo, I can team up with almost anybody.
    Sail past a little sloop with 2 crew, full of skulls, but I keep my cool, I didn't want it, I just need information, where is other galleon? Im on the HUNT!! if the fort pops up, do you wanna do it together?
    a lot of interactions, that is easily made, if you do it beforehand in the quiet time.

  • DURENGO germany

    @greencamillion1 sagte in Why the skull fort is still SO frustrating and still needs improvments:

    But one thing, with so many ship fighting over the fort, did you try to parlay ??

    More often than not, mostly when i play solo, I can team up with almost anybody.

    And then what ? To get not 12k gold coins but only 2 k at the end ? The most players will betray you anyways after the raid is done ...

    First they say parley and then they kill you from behind to get the booty for themself. In this game you can only trust yourself and your crew members aslong they are friends..... randys into the same crew can betray you too..most of them just fool around or blow the own ship into thousands of pieces..with gunpowder barrels.

  • GreenCamillion1
    Captain
    Insider

    @durengo-germany ohh yeah the change for betrayal is always there, the fun an tense thing about trusting another crew, it just awesome.
    but either way, if you betray or they betray, it will not take you 4 hr. a least.

    Ill Happily admit, that I have team up with a little duo sloop, with the soul intense of kill them when the forts done.
    an I have team up an shared.

  • DoonDoons
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    The re-spawns seem to still need fixing, just last night we were at a fort about half way through a galleon came which we promptly sunk, we never saw that galleon again. A second galleon came along which we also sunk but within 2 mins we could see the galleon coming back, again, we sunk it, this same galleon (same skins) came back a further 2 times, the last time sinking us due to lack of materials they were quite terrible at the game but their close re-spawn really messed us up!

  • BlindNev
    Captain

    I've done a fort solo before and got all the loot as well. While I liked the different waves, tactics and music, it's simply not worth it if there are other ships (I fought another sloop).

    Why fight other players in an encounter that can even take hours sometimes, for that amount of gold? If you have a galleon crew and you are alone there, sure. But to fight waves of players+killing all the skeletons is not worth it.
    Forget the fact that these days other ships just wait for the last waves before they attack.

    Whenever I see a skull fort up, I know I can do my voyages in peace, which is nice.

  • DURENGO germany

    @blindnev
    So your advice to other players is to didn't make fort raids ?
    The game didn't have enough content anyways and that little content that we got shouldn't we use fully ? And it's our fault ? I didn't get the logic here... many players complain the problems of the game and the solution should be that no one should play it because then no one have to complain ?

    Fort raids are one part of the very little content we have and because of the general lack on content i'am not into the position to tell others now that everything is fine aslong they don't use the very little content. Because absolutly nothing is fine .

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/51070/important-content-suggestions

  • BlindNev
    Captain

    @durengo-germany said in Why the skull fort is still SO frustrating and still needs improvments:

    @blindnev
    So your advice to other players is to didn't make fort raids ?
    The game didn't have enough content anyways and that little content that we got shouldn't we use fully ? And it's our fault ? I didn't get the logic here... many players complain the problems of the game and the solution should be that no one should play it because then no one have to complain ?

    Fort raids are one part of the very little content we have and because of the general lack on content i'am not into the position to tell others now that everything is fine aslong they don't use the very little content. Because absolutly nothing is fine .

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/51070/important-content-suggestions

    What? I didn't say any of this. I didn't blame anyone either Oo.
    I just said my opinion on the issue. I like the forts. For me however it's not worth the hassle.

    If you want to do them, go for it.

  • XIX Voohdoo XIX
    Master
    Insider

    Going to add this to the discussion. If you fight me over the fort and win you can have the key. We might battle for it . But if you anchor your Galleon in the rocks and wait for the fort to be completed doing no work to try and roll up and bully us in a sloop. I will drag you all the way across the map waste 4 hrs of your time and drive the key into the red sea .

  • DURENGO germany

    @blindnev sagte in Why the skull fort is still SO frustrating and still needs improvments:

    For me however it's not worth the hassle.

    I can understand that and i think more players think the same way but it's RARES task to make the content like fort raids worth the hassle for everyone , by eliminating the problems and the annoyance . Or in other words : It's RARES task to make raids and the game in general enjoyable for everyone. This is a commitment that RARE makes with the customer.

    https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/51070/important-content-suggestions

Login To Reply
31
Posts
22.9k
Views
1 out of 31