@mindarchitect
This matter is solved already, no need for statements from Rare. There are couple of hundred Xbox players who are sad for pc players being able to jump faster. If you consider it an advantage you are really really really bad at fighting. As have been stated before, jumping players are easy targets since you always know where they will land.
Most of us who play this game PC or Xbox are completely fine with cross play and even endorse it.
@personalc0ffee
They have also stated & used in marketing & as a selling point that this is a game where everyone is equal!!
You have stated yourself that kb+m is superior than controller. So not equal then!
Therefore Rare's statement is untrue or incorrect.
Who's to say their other statements don't follow suit?
If enough people are unhappy with a feature & that feature turns out to be flawed, then don't you think Rare may do something about it?
All the discussion/arguments whatever around crossplay are from personal points of view, observations or opinions.
Rare are the ones with the data & figures. What if it turns out that kb+m vs controller is a massive issue, or pc vs xbox is unfair & they have the stats there telling them that things are too one sided, do you honestly believe they'll do nothing about it? Even if that means going back on what they said & 'segregating' the player base!
Just a what if scenario i know, but you must be able to see what i'm getting at.
You don't have an issue that's great for you, but there are a lot of people that do have issues & WILL continue to voice their concerns whether you like it or not!
That is in effect what these forums are for!!
@mindarchitect I feel like the option to turn on and off crossplay is good and bad .. at least now you come across random amounts of ppl on xbox and pc .. with the crossplay option , imagine if you will... 90% of xbox players turn off crossplay .. now that ten % of players that have it on will end up in pretty much pc only servers .. and thats going to be a pain the the royal behind . you think it's tough now when 1-2 ppl on a 4 man gally are on pc .. imagine having to deal with a full pc crew when you're an xbox sloop .... would sure suck to have a pc friend then
@LogansDadToo Please avoid swearing in your posts, as this is a violation of the Forum rules. Also, please be mindful of statements that are worded in such a way as to bait other users and lead to arguments. We have edited one of your posts accordingly.
Am I the only one who has not had any issue with the cross play? I myself own an xbox, but play on my much faster PC. My brother plays on his xbox, and we play together, which is great. I cannot express how much I love being able to cross play. I personally play with a controller for this game, even though using a keyboard and mouse may be better, although the only way I could see that as being the case is due to customizable keybindings and hotkeys.
The only real advantage I could find is that I load into the game upon 'setting sail' after about 10 seconds, compared to his 45. That is most likely due to the higher specs of the computer, or the 125 mbps download / 30 mpbs upload I get compared to his 50/5.
Is there something else I am missing? Something that gives PC players a true advantage? Not to be that guy but, maybe y'all just need more practice?
@zpillarofautumn I don't have any issues competing. My crew doesn't get sunk. At worst we get warded off by a galleon while in a sloop, but we've kept the amount of times we've been outplayed in the single digits in the year of testing this game + the launch month we've been playing. I'll still fight crossplay to the bitter end.
It's really strange that your asking if there's something that gives PC players an advantage. It's the mouse dude. The mouse is above and beyond superior for aiming guns. It doesn't matter if you need to twitch aim or slowly aim. The mouse is just better. This has been proven time and time again. This isn't me complaining about getting beat, as like I said that doesn't really happen. But you cannot argue that the game is not tilted towards the mouse/keyboard, as well as a few other annoying advantages that PC has.
@logansdadtoo i think the player count has shrank a lot and if the already much smaller playerbase were split there would be more cases of people not seeing another ship for hours at a time. but this is rares own fault due to launching a bare bones game with not much to do.
@xi-am-vengencex said in When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
@logansdadtoo i think the player count has shrank a lot and if the already much smaller playerbase were split there would be more cases of people not seeing another ship for hours at a time. but this is rares own fault due to launching a bare bones game with not much to do.
Player count would only impact the number of servers not the number of players in a server. There are still the same number of players/ships in a server.
I think what is happening is that a lot of PvPers have gotten bored and left. Those playing PvE are less likely to roam about the map usually unless a voyage takes them there.
I think I'm an exception as I still like to explore, mainly looking for sunken wrecks. I see the same amount of ships as always but I do find that less of them are engaging me than before.
@logansdadtoo said in When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
@trophy-un1ocked said in When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
First both of these (once your body is used to the turn speeds, and assuming you/anyone who uses a controller has the sensitivity set to full) is negligible.
Are you even being serious? It takes an xbox player just under 2 seconds to turn 360 degrees at max sens, how long does it take on pc using a mouse?
I will load up SoT on my xbox and confirm turn speed and let you know my findings. Even at max sensitivity, 2 seconds seems slow/incorrect. (compared to how i adjusted it for my kid. Default is god awful.) Yes i know mouse turn speed can seem near instantaneous, but I will get some actual numbers for a full 360 and 180 degree turn speed when i get home.
This used to be correct for the Eye of Reach, but they recently changed how this works. I don't have a "sniper" mouse and yet my friend did and told me how this would change the DPI setting and allow him to aim faster using it. However, since their recent patch/update the Eye "aims" faster naturally. So moot argument?
Again are you being serious? You can adjust the dpi on nearly all mice to increase sensitivity & speed, which gives even more advantage to pc players. Nothing to do with EOR, it increases it across the board!!
Just because you can on "nearly all mice" does not mean that EVERYONE on PC does. And again i could see its usefulness pre Eye buff. That thing took forever to aim, but it doesnt anymore. So i would say the "average" pc gamer on SoT wont need to bother with it anymore. Sure i will give you the "extra competitive" ones still may. But that's not reflective of the PC community as a whole. (And also the DPI change did NOT effect aiming cannons, my friend tested that out also.)
I have had slow load times also on my "master uber PC"
All the time? No!
No not all the time, again this is dependent on several factors, Latency, ping, network traffic... it boils down to client/server connection. Some times Network traffic suffers. Not only LAN (aka your network) but MAN/WAN also. Could be an ISP issue.
Xbox is consistently slower than nearly all pcs (even potatoes!)
This will happen with older equipment. This isnt limited to this game, many xbox one games are only 30fps "due to their locked in specs" that are not upgradeable.
That is the case, but this also garners a small advantage to pc players.
To me it sounds like you are complaining that the game as a whole should play the same across all Xbox one consoles and PC. (in this case they would all be reduced in some way shape or form to play on the first gen xbox one.) Even though it was optimized for the Xbox One X. I concede that if this game came out a decade earlier or so (when we did NOT have multiple variations of the same console, since each iteration now, has slightly better hardware) this might be viable. But this tell me their sales tactic is to get you to "upgrade" your console by buying the newer hardware. Trust me I don't like it any more than you.
This has been proven wrong.
Meh.
What the hell do you need more than 8 buttons remap able for in this game anyway???? 3 weapons, shovel and bucket. Thats all you really need... /facepalm
Bananas, planks, cannonballs etc, etc
You have the option of binding any item to any key.
You have quick access to everything & can equip the items quicker.
You have enough keys to hotkey everything required for a battle, xbox players do not, we have to basically stop fighting to be able to equip some items during battle!
So yes, you don't need 128keys, but you have them.
Xbox don't have enough buttons to be able to remap everything to a hotkey, so therefore you 128 keys is an advantage is it not?
I can tell you right now, i don't remap any buttons. I use defaults:
1= Sword
2= Secondary weapon
3= Bananas
4= Cannon balls
5= Wood Plank
6= Compass ?*
7= ?*
8= Shovel?*
9= ?*
10= ?*
11= ?*
12= ?*
B= Bucket
L= Lantern
*= can't tell you for sure because i don't use those buttons often enough.
Now i also have the SWTOR Razer mouse with 1-12 buttons on the side of it, that MIRRORS 1-10,-,= across the top of the keyboard. So I can access those buttons/preset hotkeys while moving. Advantage in that sense? Yes. but it was also a $60 mouse.
Let me understand this. If you play on xbox and you invite players to party chat (not using the ingame proximity chat) other players can still hear you? I am lost with this statement.
On pc a player can be in party chat (discord etc) but can still proximity game chat. So pc players can communicate with each other, can listen in on gamechat (but not be heard in gamechat).
Xbox can be in party but only hear the party & only talk to the party, or the can be in gamechat & can hear & be heard by everyone.
So to clarify a PC players can be in party & in effect in game chat at the same time, xbox can have 1 or the other!
Again this seems like a limitation due to the hardware/software with in the xbox itself. That being said, I am not a fan of games that require you to have "proximity" chat enabled by default. Maybe the issue here is with Rare/Microsoft for having it required. On the PC anyway it gives you the option when you first installed the game to allow that "app" to use your microphone. You would never hear any user that chose to deny that request (blame privacy settings on that one.) Even if they did enable "push to talk."
Can you give me one SOLID example of macro for this game? I completely understand "macros" and have used them in other MMO's this is mainly used to automate crafting, or spell casting when doing a raid, to make it mindless and not break my fingers. Please explain how a "macro" affects PVP in this sense. Again, I dont think you know what they actually do. The only thing i can think of to "exploit" is to keep the game from timing out due to AFK. but again Rare could have a system that detects such macros and could still boot you due to afk anyway.
No, i have no idea what a macro is. Please enlighten me, you PC genius!
Shoot, change weapon, shoot
Shoot, change weapon, slash, slash, slash,
Shoot, change weapon, shoot, banana
Or however you want to set them up or whichever button combos/keypresses you wish to cheat on i suppose?
Ok so a macro would really on work for precise timing in this case.(remember there are animations that slow down actions (reloading, eating, repairing)) Many keyboards that support macros (only record key clicks) I would not be able to do any of those that you suggest because it only records key presses. (not mouse clicks) Maybe its possible to remap "shooting/eating banana" aka left mouse click to a button. But that seems silly, especially when you take into account the delay with animations.
Example macro: shoot, change weapon, shoot, eat banana, change weapon, wait for reload, shoot. The macro would fail if one of your weapons was not loaded, or you had no ammo, or no bananas or even lag. There would be too many external forces at play to have the "macro" work every single time. Let alone if you relied on said macro, you are probably a bad player anyway.
Please mention more I would like to be enlightened.
Never going to enlighten pc players, [Mod edited], they won't listen anyway!
But, how about the plethora of cheats & hacks available also.
PC players will do anything to get & to keep their advantage, as they are the 'M*********e'.
I dunno man, i still don't see this "plethora of cheats & hacks" you speak of. Maybe you're just really unlucky at matchmaking or very presumptuous when it comes to PC players in general. I suspect its the latter.
@personalc0ffee I generally try to get people into my discord, but i also have in game chat turned on but "push to talk enabled" I generally don't use "in game chat systems" because they are garbage.
@logansdadtoo said in When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
@personalc0ffee
They have also stated & used in marketing & as a selling point that this is a game where everyone is equal!!
You have stated yourself that kb+m is superior than controller. So not equal then!
I think at this point you are arguing semantics.
@natsu-v2 said in When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
@zpillarofautumn I don't have any issues competing. My crew doesn't get sunk. At worst we get warded off by a galleon while in a sloop, but we've kept the amount of times we've been outplayed in the single digits in the year of testing this game + the launch month we've been playing. I'll still fight crossplay to the bitter end.
It's really strange that your asking if there's something that gives PC players an advantage. It's the mouse dude. The mouse is above and beyond superior for aiming guns. It doesn't matter if you need to twitch aim or slowly aim. The mouse is just better. This has been proven time and time again. This isn't me complaining about getting beat, as like I said that doesn't really happen. But you cannot argue that the game is not tilted towards the mouse/keyboard, as well as a few other annoying advantages that PC has.
Respectfully i disagree. Only because i can play Destiny 2 with a controller much better than i can with m/kb. Simply due to the fact I have played it with a controller for YEARS. My experience with that game on a controller vs mouse/keyboard is superior. Thus I play better (according to my "pvp stats") with a controller. I feel it boils down to what you use the most comfortable and Confident using. You can say "this" is better than "that" but if you work at being better with something you can change that focus.
Edited for grammar.
@trophy-un1ocked We're not talking about individual preference. We're talking about the better input device for maximum peak performance at the highest possible level of play. If you had grown up on the mouse then you would feel more comfortable with it, so that's a variable we must eliminate. If two players played an FPS game with equal amounts of experience, one on each input, and they are at the highest level of play, the mouse player will be better than the controller player. Just because you personally are better with a controller due to exposure doesn't mean anything. If there was a clone of you who had been playing FPS games on a mouse for years, then he would completely destroy you in Destiny 2 if allowed to use a mouse.
@natsu-v2 Here is a fun little article to read/watch (attached video) https://www.pcgamer.com/mouse-and-keyboard-players-are-destroying-controller-users-in-overwatch-on-console/
Actually i believe we are talking about individual preference. I don't believe this game has quite the "hardcore competitive" following as say a full PVP game. Just because this game allows "unrestricted" pvp does not make it PVP focused. Meaning its not competitive in that sense. If there was a poll system on these forums i would like to see one on who considers them selves to be "hardcore competitive" Those who take Ever in game/out of game step to get those extra "advantages>"
I would bet that on average PC users dont take the time to "min/max" the game in that way. Instead they just play the game and perhaps remap a few keys to their personal play style.
The problem is you are speculating that you have two people would be considered "masters" of said input device, but then say the "controller bro" would get owned. Again this is speculation/conjecture. Has there even been a study to prove this "theory." I haven't seen the "evidence" to suggest that two equal players in skill/speed/reaction time etc with each input device would result in a single clear winner, i speculate they would still play on the same skill level. But i also don't think this could be measured, unless there was some sort of double blind test/experiment made.
"Just because you personally are better with a controller due to exposure doesn't mean anything."
Well i would argue that i was able to see a noticeable difference in my k/d ratio when going from m/kb back to controller. So it was, very much so measurable. So to me it means quite a bit.
"If there was a clone of you who had been playing FPS games on a mouse for years, then he would completely destroy you in Destiny 2 if allowed to use a mouse."
Again you trying to argue something that is impossible to prove as "possibilities." I know there is a word/phrase for this but can't recall what it is at the moment.
No two people are wired exactly the same, and grew up in the exact same environments. There are too many possibilities/outcomes. This is why people bring up Rockynohands. There are only those who adapt or learn (or forced to learn) how to play better. Refusing to not take responsibility and try to adapt on your on first, yet blaming others for your lack of non-conformity or being at a "disadvantage" is quite literally the definition of "scapegoat."
And quite frankly "you guys" are using it as a crutch.
@mindarchitect I want cross-play, it's a huge part of this game for me. I'm on PC, but use a wireless xbox one s controller, connected to my OLED TV 24/7 now. I used to use keyboard/mouse for 18yrs, but it's h*****n your joints over time. There would be much less people on the PC side, like MUCH less. Think Halo Wars 2, which was absolutely dead on PC until they added cross-play 8 months later. I bet 80% of SoT players are console.
There's absolutely no reason to take cross-play out. It would kill the community in my opinion. To appease all console people talking about turning radius, they could EASILY just put a slider for stick sensitivity (Remember - Official keyboard/mouse support IS coming to xbox soon, I bet it's announced at E3. There are already some unofficial boxes that give you keyboard/mouse support for xbox but are meh). Surely that would make everyone happy. I'm amazed it wasn't put in from the start, but that, PTT, and Xbox chatpad available for text type is all this needs to make people happy right? Those should all be an incredibly easy fix.
*I bet controller folk are just as good if given the stick sensitivity and quick access options. Some people are masters with a controller, and some with a keyboard mouse. I'd love to see the masters battle up, because I do NOT think keyboard/mouse people would win every time. Also, think about being able to creep walk very slowly with a controller, something you can't do on a keyboard/mouse. A walk toggle is not the same thing either, sticks on a controller are pressure sensitive. That's a big deal in my opinion, especially for FPS.
@trophy-un1ocked "Again this is speculation/conjecture. Has there even been a study to prove this "theory.""
Yes, lol. There have been multiple studies. The absolute best controller players they could round up could barely handle the middle of the road mouse players.
And please stop with the scapegoat stuff. If you've been paying attention, I have never claimed to have lost to a PC player. My whole purpose is to always be able to know for 100% sure that I am at fault for any failure, and I can't do that if there are outside variables. Ideal gaming to me needs equal input devices.
@natsu-v2 said in When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
@trophy-un1ocked "Again this is speculation/conjecture. Has there even been a study to prove this "theory.""
Yes, lol. There have been multiple studies. The absolute best controller players they could round up could barely handle the middle of the road mouse players.
And please stop with the scapegoat stuff. If you've been paying attention, I have never claimed to have lost to a PC player. My whole purpose is to always be able to know for 100% sure that I am at fault for any failure, and I can't do that if there are outside variables. Ideal gaming to me needs equal input devices.
So basically to eliminate the variables, you want to make sure that you only go up against those with the same input device as you? Because really that's what it will boil down to.
As it stands now you or I can't tell for sure what the enemy is using. You can only speculate, and often times you assume that you lost due to their superior input device. So in order to eliminate that as even an option. You would need to play only against those who use the same device's as you.
That is the only scenario i can think of that you can be 100% sure that you died due to your own faults. Is this correct?
@trophy-un1ocked Correct, that's the way consoles have always been constructed until recently. The whole reason I gravitated towards consoles for competitive gaming was to eliminate variables. For Starcraft and other games where there aren't many settings, I would be fine on PC. Having better hardware wouldn't give people an advantage in SC. I really can't stand where gaming is going with all these subtle edges that you can't even be sure exist. It absolutely sucks for ultra competitive players like myself who want the only variables to be player skill. Instead we get people messing with shaders to see enemies through smoke, doubling other peoples' FPS with beast machines, using a monitor with a built-in laser sight for hipfire accuracy, and it even extends to consoles with elite controllers and kontrol freeks (I swear by these). I desperately want a return to the days where your setup meant absolutely nothing.
I think you can easily balance the keyboard/mouse to a controller for THIS game. The pvp is very casual. Stick sensitivity slider in xbox options needs to be doubled for turning radius to match mouse/keyboard. They already have directional pad remapping for quick access. All you need in a fight in this are bucket/planks/bananas/spyglass (maybe). The 30fps lock on console is rough though, although I'd imagine many xboners are used to it.
Also, Official Keyboard/Mouse support is coming to xbox soon enough, let's wait for E3 in a month and some change to get the deets. After that, surely everyone will be happy and platform won't matter. Everyone can use their 10million DPI mouse and HAL level keyboard.
@natsu-v2 I don't know then man. It sucks because M$ and $ony are doing the same c**p. Rereleasing the same "console" with better hardware, to give those "ultra competitive" players the edge. And people are eating them up and justifying their sales tactics. (pro-controller, PS 4Pro, XBOX one X to name a few) Like you I miss the old days of one iteration of a console, and "skill" meant something.
I am older now and have a family, so my game time is limited. I recognize that because i cant play the game as much as millennial's they will have more experience and learn a few things before me. This will probably result in getting bested when I face them. Sucks but its a fact of life. My life no longer rotates around video games anymore. And I am fine with that. I just feels like everyone wants to blame their lack of adaptation on an input device. Sounds like they need to come up with better strategy to fit their play style. But this is my opinion.
@zalavaaris Microsoft allows optional crossplay in their other games (Gears of War 4 for example) . Probably the reason Rare didn't make it optional is the same as why they won't even add ONE extra sail design (that's like 15 minutes of work for a designer). They work extremely slow or lack the staff to do the most simple changes or additions.
@trophy-un1ocked said in When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
Maybe you're just really unlucky at matchmaking or very presumptuous when it comes to PC players in general. I suspect its the latter.
I am a pc player & an xbox player, so am fully aware of the differences & am no means down on pc players (apart from the 'M*********e' elitists!). As i play on both & use both forms of control, i am quite able to see the advantage & can easily spot a pc player compared to an xbox player in combat.
The pc hacks for SOT has been downloaded over 300000 times, so there is a fair chance at least 10% of those actually tried it!!
I want balance & parity between the systems, but that i don't think is possible, so the next best thing is optional crossplay.
@dahkohtlewin said in When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
You knew it was coming , all that needs to be said.
L**O!!!!!!!!
@captain-surgee I could understand it being optional for games with "competitive" modes. This game really doesnt have a competitive game mode, just because it has PVP in the game does not mean its automatically "competitive" in the same sense of say Gears of war 4, or OverWatch, or League of Legends. Competitive means two different things when talking about these types of games. (think of scoreboards, Match rewards, Ranking etc.)
Unless something changes this to make it more "hardcore competitive" there no real NEED to offer the option. To be completely clear, i could care less if they did implement the crossplay option. As long as its available i will enjoy it. Simply because i have friends who play the game of something different, and i would like for one day to have it extend to all consoles, not just xbox and windows. I am looking at the bigger picture.
@captain-surgee Gears is extremely competitive compared to this very very casual experience. This game sports no kill counters, no stats, absolutely nothing. There is no incentive for people to PVP play 24/7 to get their gamertag at the top. Gears/Halo/Duty/BF/etc very different. That's why there is no crouch in this game either i'd imagine. I like those games, but am glad they made this very casual PVP. Cheers
@adeezlfosheezl @Trophy-un1ocked
Competitive or not this is still a game with 1st person combat in it, so there will be a winner & a loser. If there is a winner & loser then being human, we will compete!
People do not like losing, they like it even less when they are losing due to being at a disadvantage.
@logansdadtoo said in When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
@trophy-un1ocked said in When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
Maybe you're just really unlucky at matchmaking or very presumptuous when it comes to PC players in general. I suspect its the latter.
I am a pc player & an xbox player, so am fully aware of the differences & am no means down on pc players (apart from the 'M*********e' elitists!). As i play on both & use both forms of control, i am quite able to see the advantage & can easily spot a pc player compared to an xbox player in combat.
The pc hacks for SOT has been downloaded over 300000 times, so there is a fair chance at least 10% of those actually tried it!!
I want balance & parity between the systems, but that i don't think is possible, so the next best thing is optional crossplay.
But my point is, you don't know for sure. You assume that their "skill" equals mouse/kb. I am playing devils advocate here. Its very possible you (as a PC m/kb user) can be bested by a controller p**b. That is not outside the realm of possibilities.
Second, just because [insert hack here] has been downloaded x amount of times you presume to do theoretical math try to generate percentage numbers to help your argument. This again is speculation you are trying to pass off as fact.
Will there be hacks and cheats for pretty much any game on PC? Yes, they need an equally good anti-cheat system in place. But I always shake my head at times like this because 99% of the time the "loser" in pvp cries Cheater, with no actual evidence. Just look up all the threads of cheating on Destiny1/2. So many times have i witnessed people yelling in pvp "aww they must be lag switching." or "they are F***in cheatin!" and more often then not they simply died because they made a mistake. BUT instinctively blame it on hacks/cheats.
Until actual evidence can be posted about someone cheating, 99% of the time I assume you're just blaming your loss on something other that what it actually is.
@davejc64 dijo en When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
I suspect there is a trade off, kb + mouse might be better at aiming and the such like during combat but maybe not so in say controlling the ship movement, I know from my own experience in driving games steering and controlling the car are not so good with kb + mouse than with joypad, just wonder how that translates into controlling ship in SOT?
It's the same, the spinning speed of the rudder in the ship is fixed, and you don't need so subtile control like in a racing game.
In racing games: steering wheel better than anything, then controller because you can get a fine analogic movement and finally the boorish digital keyboard.
@logansdadtoo said in When will a Rare employee state their points of view on the crossplay matter?:
@adeezlfosheezl @Trophy-un1ocked
Competitive or not this is still a game with 1st person combat in it, so there will be a winner & a loser. If there is a winner & loser then being human, we will compete!
People do not like losing, they like it even less when they are losing due to being at a disadvantage.
You are absolutely right! And they hate it even more when its due to something they CANNOT control, like latency, thus they prefer to "cry wolf" and blame it on their assumption that it must be mouse/kb. Because it cant possibly be any another reason!!!
Raise your hand if you ever heard or said: "they shot me through the wall!!!?" Followed immediately by "They are cheating" or "must be cheating..."
You don't want to believe its due to something you cant control like your clients connection to a server and realize that it comes down to 1's and 0's traveling from one end of the line to another, and sometimes those need to be rerouted causing a delay (latency) or the visual of you getting shot through the ship/wall etc.
