Posting this article because I think it's thoughtful and well-written. It also got me thinking about how some of these issues are relevant to SoT, specifically relating to the race to become Pirate Legend. I am not intending to suggest anything negative about those who have already obtained legendary status. However, I think there is something to be said about SoT's "grindiest" design elements, including the amount of hours required to reach 50, 50, 50.
Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend
I've been there. My big addiction was a text-based MMORPG called Gemstone IV. I still dream about that game. I know my characters are still there, patiently awaiting my return. And I know one day I will probably find myself in Elanthia once again. When I do, I only hope I can keep it balanced and not get sucked back in.
In the meantime, I simply stay away. I have too much yet to do in the real world, and I'm no longer a young person. There comes a day when you realize we don't have forever to accomplish our goals. Games are wonderful escapes, but life is too short to allow them to take over and become priorities.
Sea of Thieves was the first game that really caught my attention in quite a while. And I admit I've become pretty addicted to the game lately. But it's not on the same level.
One of the things about Sea of Thieves that I love is that it's not so "deep" I can't walk away. It's immersive, engaging, and pleasurable. But I don't feel like I'm addicted to the grind, or any status or achievement. I just love the experience of being in that world. I love the sea, the ships, the tropical islands, the beaches, the sunsets, and all the "piratey" stuff. I love the time period and the (fictional) lore. It's romantic and adventurous. Of course I enjoy playing the game with friends, and even strangers on occasion, but my most satisfying moments are simply sailing the seas by my lonesome, exploring the world and returning to port to sell all my fabulous treasures.
It's a wonderfully addictive game for all those reasons, but it's not the same level of addiction as a MMORPG. This game, I can walk away from. I know when I come back, the world will be just as I left it (or better). There's no competition over levels, stats, or gear. All the progress is cosmetic. While I do find that compelling in its own way, it's not likely to cause me to ditch real life in favor of the game.
I'm in no big hurry to reach Pirate Legend. I'll get there eventually, if I keep playing long enough. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I don't consider it a "grind." I'm content to enjoy the journey without worrying too much about the destination. I think that's a very refreshing feature of Sea of Thieves.
@genuine-heather Well said! I think we've all been addicted to something at one stage, perhaps even outside of gaming, and I know personally that it can be hard to admit it - good on you :)
@genuine-heather said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
I've been there. My big addiction was a text-based MMORPG called Gemstone IV. I still dream about that game. I know my characters are still there, patiently awaiting my return. And I know one day I will probably find myself in Elanthia once again. When I do, I only hope I can keep it balanced and not get sucked back in.
In the meantime, I simply stay away. I have too much yet to do in the real world, and I'm no longer a young person. There comes a day when you realize we don't have forever to accomplish our goals. Games are wonderful escapes, but life is too short to allow them to take over and become priorities.
Sea of Thieves was the first game that really caught my attention in quite a while. And I admit I've become pretty addicted to the game lately. But it's not on the same level.
One of the things about Sea of Thieves that I love is that it's not so "deep" I can't walk away. It's immersive, engaging, and pleasurable. But I don't feel like I'm addicted to the grind, or any status or achievement. I just love the experience of being in that world. I love the sea, the ships, the tropical islands, the beaches, the sunsets, and all the "piratey" stuff. I love the time period and the (fictional) lore. It's romantic and adventurous. Of course I enjoy playing the game with friends, and even strangers on occasion, but my most satisfying moments are simply sailing the seas by my lonesome, exploring the world and returning to port to sell all my fabulous treasures.
It's a wonderfully addictive game for all those reasons, but it's not the same level of addiction as a MMORPG. This game, I can walk away from. I know when I come back, the world will be just as I left it (or better). There's no competition over levels, stats, or gear. All the progress is cosmetic. While I do find that compelling in its own way, it's not likely to cause me to ditch real life in favor of the game.
I'm in no big hurry to reach Pirate Legend. I'll get there eventually, if I keep playing long enough. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I don't consider it a "grind." I'm content to enjoy the journey without worrying too much about the destination. I think that's a very refreshing feature of Sea of Thieves.
This is a great post. I largely feel the same about SoT Re: feeling able to walk away, and treating legendary status as an eventual destination rather than the main focus.
I do still wonder about what those internal discussions sounded like. There was obviously some sort of thought that went into the amount of realtime hours that it takes to reach that goal, and it still sort of astounds me that people reached it as quickly as they did.
Again, people have different focuses and stuff, and I certainly have lots of friends who have reached legendary status, so it's definitely not a knock on them. The design decisions that go into developing progression systems has always been interesting to me, especially the ways in which they factor human behavior. More generally, I think gaming communities tend to underestimate how prevalent this issue is.
I, also want to reply to this before I need to head out to work.
I think it's an important discussion to have given the media coverage and concern around the topic.
When I read about the WHO classification I was also dismayed for several reasons. One being that games and gaming seems to be an easy target for both those who don't enjoy playing games and those who would like to benefit for whatever reason, from 'treating' such an 'addiction'.
If we look at the definition in it's simplest form -
'Addiction is defined as not having control over doing, taking or using something to the point where it could be harmful to you.'It's fairly easy to see that we often use the term outside this definition in a more general way to describe behaviours we might not approve of in others, to pass judgement on them and the things they take pleasure in.
The most obvious one for me is social media, and mobile technology in general.
There is no doubt in my mind that certain games, apps, are built with the intention to keep people playing for as long as possible and for myself, my weakness would be mobile games - the psychology behind their construction is to keep you playing, small rewards, goals, items that cost real money to circumvent the amount of time you need to spend playing, simple repetitive but necessary actions that you just think 'one more minute, i'll just do this and that before I log off'. Behavioural psychology at it's finest.
However, I have always managed to drag myself away before I do myself any harm. Am I addicted? No. Could I become addicted? Possibly yes, but I am self aware enough to recognise that this could happen and I have control over that and exercise that control.So with gaming addiction we have a lot of other things going on. It's not just a clear case of 'omg games are baaad!' Games can be very beneficial as well. I work with vulnerable young students, many of whom tend to use gaming as a refuge from problems they cannot manage in the real world. It provides them with a feeling of success and accomplishment when they're in a place that they often feel isolated, unloved and a failure. It often provides them with enough confidence that step by step they can be helped little by little to tackle those real world issues and overcome them.
There have been times in my own life, when I've been going through difficult periods and games have also provided me that refuge, they allowed me a respite where I could collect my thoughts and work through how to cope.
Are they addicted? No I don't think so.Games have also been shown to foster certain cognitive skills and have been used successfully as tools for cognitive behaviour therapy as well as them being a force for positive social interaction, keeping in touch with far flung families, finding like minded groups for support etc
What struck me about the article was the question 'what was the real reason he turned to world of warcraft, was it in fact the game or was it more connected with the challenges he faced in his career choice and the uncertainty of his future?'
With Sea of Thieves, I agree with @Genuine-Heather - it's a beautiful, wonderful world to adventure in. It's a wonderful way to escape and relax but it doesn't really contain those features which I would consider addictive - yes you can spend a lot of time in there, but time spent isn't a good indicator of addiction in my view. Yes, if you're doing harm to yourself by staying there overlong then it is an issue for concern, but this is also finite in that eventually you will reach Legend status and that's that.
I also think that a lot of the responsibility lies with us as gamers and parents even. We need to become more cognizant of the reasons why that game, book, movie binging, eating, drinking, social media attention is taking priority over the things we must do in life - like work, paying bills, our relationships with others. There are tools available to restrict internet time for minors, there are things we can do for ourselves to cut down on the amount of attention we give to those little notifications on our phones or the call of the wild mountains in a game. We need to learn to recognise when it's becoming a problem and either act on it or seek help.
@williamherschel said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
Posting this article because I think it's thoughtful and well-written. It also got me thinking about how some of these issues are relevant to SoT, specifically relating to the race to become Pirate Legend. I am not intending to suggest anything negative about those who have already obtained legendary status. However, I think there is something to be said about SoT's "grindiest" design elements, including the amount of hours required to reach 50, 50, 50.
I hate articles like these, because they don't get to the point... It's just walls upon walls rambling text and random quotes, followed by an unrelated statement, and then... Wait what's the point of this article? :P
Humans are creatures of habit, and addiction... For example... we're addicted to food, and we'll die if we don't eat food... We're addicted to sleep too, we'll experience severe problems if we don't sleep, and eventually death.
Some people are addicted to heroin and other various drugs... And if their addiction is bad enough, they can't just stop using it all of a sudden, otherwise they'll die, they have to take gradually less and less doses in order to quit the drug.
Now, i guess some people thought the threat of death was no longer necessary to define an addiction, now it's just "disaster"? Give me a break... So anything you do more than once, that can lead to a disaster, is now an addiction? Haha, so addiction means nothing anymore as it applies to almost anything that's usually just referred to as bad decision-making.
If we look at the definition in it's simplest form -
'Addiction is defined as not having control over doing, taking or using something to the point where it could be harmful to you.'
By that definition, people with tourettes, and other forms of involuntary body movements classify as addiction...
This is hilarious... I have no control over my blinking in every day life... And some people are offended by my eyes blinking (bullies at school, any excuse to cause trouble) and they beat me up every day after school.
Guess i must be addicted to having moist eyeballs... Roflmao.
we had a discussion about the gaming disorder in here:
Even after reading this article, I still don't completely agree with the official definition of it. Like some of us mentioned before, some parts of it are really vague and I'm a bit scared that it might lead to another wave of "videogames are bad" campaigns. I don't dispute the fact, that some people can get addicted to gaming, I just think the definition is poorly written and can be misinterpreted by some.
A topic close to me heart, like many I would consider myself an addict, whether I am for sure or not I couldn't say. And in the past I have certainly demonstrated behaviour that would lead me to believe I was. It took a a conscious effort to remove myself from all games that illicit that response. And to this day I just refuse to put myself back in that position.
Even today the answer to the question "what would you rather be doing" nearly always is "playing games".
Now I'm certainly passionate about games, even to the point of becoming a hobbyist games developer. It's difficult to sometimes distinguish between the need to play from an addiction stand point and one of harmless interest. It's a little internal battle, and I have it often. And it's because of gaming's positive rewards that makes the battle worth it. I would never give up on playing and making games.
What I would try to encourage to anyone who feels concerned that they may be addicted to games is always ask yourself "am I actually enjoying myself". Become very objective with your play time. Don't let the game dictate how much you play, no matter the promised reward. If the answer to the question is ever no, stop. It is not your responsibility as a player to put up with a chore for extended periods of time on the promise of something fun down the line if you just stick with it.
Also if the answer is yes, but it seems to be solely dominating your life then you need to put boundaries in place. I personally allow myself one night in the week where gaming gets the priority. It's games night, all night. Outside of that, yeah I can play games, but I make a conscious point that if anything else presents itself then it should have priority.
And this relates quite well to SOT. I don't feel the game is malicious or goes out of its way to put in systems to prey on people. But putting any long term goal in a game which can be reached faster by putting in more time will always lead to some people obsessing over the grind to get there faster. If you are playing, and playing a lot, solely to reach 50/50/50 and you're not enjoying it. You really need to stop and question why you are putting yourself through it.
Because the times you are goofing off, getting into unexpected fights or sneaking onto a ship to deprive another crew of their treasure are the times where you are actually engaged and having fun. The end goal is solely there to provide meaning to treasure, to give it some weight.
I would be a hypocrite not to admit that often I would do a voyage solely because I'm so close to the next level, whether I wanted to or not. However I would say the vast majority of the time I've spent on the seas has been filled with unscripted fun and rarely felt to me like a grind (except OoS level 45-50). Just please be critical and objective, especially if you are susceptible to the negative trappings of gaming.
I find much to agree with in @KattTruewalker's comments.
There's nothing hilarious about addiction. I'm extremely fortunate not to have suffered from any truly horrific addictions, though I've known others who have. But I've had my share, like nicotine, caffeine, and to a lesser extent alcohol. I've conquered them all. The worst was cigarettes. I was heavily addicted, a rampant chain smoker. One night about 16 years ago I got angry enough that I summoned the will to quit. Right then and there. The fact that my father had just died of lung cancer probably factored into it as well. The point is, I defeated my demons, one after the other. I know something about addiction.
Addiction is no joke, and I can tell you that game addiction is no different from any other. Once it settles in and becomes a deeply etched pattern, it's very difficult to break free. Many people find it much faster and easier to gain a sense of accomplishment in a game, a feeling of progress that is much more elusive in real life. And we do gain certain skills from gaming, like logic, problem solving, hand-eye-coordination, etc. In the case of a social game like Sea of Thieves, we can also develop tools for dealing with both positive and negative social interactions. Many games teach methodical, goal-oriented skills.
But if we only ever apply those skills to games...then the separation between our lives and the real world gets wider and wider, until real life seems almost too daunting to bother with by comparison. It's easier to immerse ourselves in the gaming world, where at least we know we can accomplish our goals and maybe even achieve greatness. It's all very real to our minds, even if our virtual accomplishments hold little to no value in the real world. Luckily, those skills we develop within games can be taken into the real world and applied. But we have to be able to break free.
Sometimes I think to myself, "If I could put the same level of focus and drive into any real life project as I do my games, I could do amazing things." And it's true. So why do I wind up firing up that game, instead? Is it addiction? Maybe. Maybe it's more a matter of procrastination. It's so much quicker and easier to dive into a game and get that feeling of satisfaction. At some point, though, I know I have to discipline myself, put my nose to the grindstone and hammer away at something that really matters in my life. I ain't gettin' any younger.
This post seems to have degenerated into a sort of rambling, stream-of-consciousness testimony. But I hope it rings true with at least a few people. As much as I love Sea of Thieves, I don't consider it a strongly addictive game in the literal, negative sense. I think that's one of the reasons I felt "safe" enough with the game to dive in head first. But game addiction is a real thing, and it deserves serious attention.
@genuine-heather said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
But if we only ever apply those skills to games...then the separation between our lives and the real world gets wider and wider, until real life seems almost too daunting to bother with by comparison. It's easier to immerse ourselves in the gaming world, where at least we know we can accomplish our goals and maybe even achieve greatness. It's all very real to our minds, even if our virtual accomplishments hold little to no value in the real world. Luckily, those skills we develop within games can be taken into the real world and applied. But we have to be able to break free.
Thanks for your post matey, this in particular resonates a lot with me.
@macdoland said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
@genuine-heather said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
But if we only ever apply those skills to games...then the separation between our lives and the real world gets wider and wider, until real life seems almost too daunting to bother with by comparison. It's easier to immerse ourselves in the gaming world, where at least we know we can accomplish our goals and maybe even achieve greatness. It's all very real to our minds, even if our virtual accomplishments hold little to no value in the real world. Luckily, those skills we develop within games can be taken into the real world and applied. But we have to be able to break free.
Thanks for your post matey, this in particular resonates a lot with me.
Thanks, me too. Sometimes I think I write as much to myself as to others. We all need our little nudges from time to time, don't we? :)
The definition was taken from the NHS website and is a simple one -
Most actual medical definitions are far more complex involving the negative physiological effects of withdrawal.
WHO now uses the term 'dependence' to replace addiction or habituation.
http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/terminology/definition1/en/
In WHO terms, the exact wording is 'Gaming disorder' and the condition needs to have been evident for a considerable amount of continuous time.
Gaming disorder is defined in the draft 11th Revision of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-11) as a pattern of gaming behavior (“digital-gaming” or “video-gaming”) characterized by impaired control over gaming, increasing priority given to gaming over other activities to the extent that gaming takes precedence over other interests and daily activities, and continuation or escalation of gaming despite the occurrence of negative consequences.
For gaming disorder to be diagnosed, the behaviour pattern must be of sufficient severity to result in significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational or other important areas of functioning and would normally have been evident for at least 12 months.
http://www.who.int/features/qa/gaming-disorder/en/
This document itself is a draft and will be presented to WHO member states in May next year for possible adoption in 2022.
@sweltering-nick said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
If we look at the definition in it's simplest form -
'Addiction is defined as not having control over doing, taking or using something to the point where it could be harmful to you.'
By that definition, people with tourettes, and other forms of involuntary body movements classify as addiction...
This is hilarious... I have no control over my blinking in every day life... And some people are offended by my eyes blinking (bullies at school, any excuse to cause trouble) and they beat me up every day after school.
Guess i must be addicted to having moist eyeballs... Roflmao.
SMH Just... no dude. Stop. I don’t usually directly address individuals. I tend to speak in very general terms. Royal you and all that, not the actual you.
You personally just made a series of very stupid analogies.
Addiction is a real thing and gaming companies study the phenomenon in order to yank dollars out of wallets.
That is a fact. The ones that don’t study it directly certainly put the scraps they know into practice.I know it’s disconcerting to think you are little more than electrochemical machine easily manipulated by outside stimuli, but welcome to life kiddo.
You’re not special. And that’s okay.
@Genuine-Heather , well done for owning up, I had to take a long hard look at my behaviours on WoW, especially when I would leave my then girlfriends house early, just to go home and play the game.
When we moved in she would find me still raiding past 3am, even when I had work in the morning.Eventually I had the "It's me or that game" talk and I decided I did have an issue with the time spent on the game and as a result I walked away.
A few months later I got my first decent promotion at work, starting seeing my mates more and then within a year I was married, 8 mnths later Katie was pregnant and I haven't been back to WoW since - tried it once a couple months ago and soon gave it up again!
@sweltering-nick said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
If we look at the definition in it's simplest form -
'Addiction is defined as not having control over doing, taking or using something to the point where it could be harmful to you.'
By that definition, people with tourettes, and other forms of involuntary body movements classify as addiction...
This is hilarious... I have no control over my blinking in every day life... And some people are offended by my eyes blinking (bullies at school, any excuse to cause trouble) and they beat me up every day after school.
Guess i must be addicted to having moist eyeballs... Roflmao.
Read the last part of the definition again....
And while the article went on and on this thread makes it's point. Adamantly denying addiction to games exist and making straw man arguments to avoid it. Really, blinking and tourettes? Come on.
@mrgrim67686 said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
@sweltering-nick said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
If we look at the definition in it's simplest form -
'Addiction is defined as not having control over doing, taking or using something to the point where it could be harmful to you.'
By that definition, people with tourettes, and other forms of involuntary body movements classify as addiction...
This is hilarious... I have no control over my blinking in every day life... And some people are offended by my eyes blinking (bullies at school, any excuse to cause trouble) and they beat me up every day after school.
Guess i must be addicted to having moist eyeballs... Roflmao.
SMH Just... no dude. Stop. I don’t usually directly address individuals. I tend to speak in very general terms. Royal you and all that, not the actual you.
You personally just made a series of very stupid analogies.
Addiction is a real thing and gaming companies study the phenomenon in order to yank dollars out of wallets.
That is a fact. The ones that don’t study it directly certainly put the scraps they know into practice.I know it’s disconcerting to think you are little more than electrochemical machine easily manipulated by outside stimuli, but welcome to life kiddo.
You’re not special. And that’s okay.
Never have i said addiction isn't real... Do not project your warped perceptions onto me and judge me by your standards... I said what i said, because the quoted phrasing of the definition, was flawed, because its meaning would also include stupid things like tourettes ticks as a form of addiction... Which is ludicrous, right?
I don't much appreciate your derogatory tone there, assuming i'm some kind of child who thinks he's special, i'm a hardcore nihilist, hence my brutally direct and honest behavior which you mistake for a "snowflake syndrome". ._.
@imoutofnames1 said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
@sweltering-nick said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
If we look at the definition in it's simplest form -
'Addiction is defined as not having control over doing, taking or using something to the point where it could be harmful to you.'
By that definition, people with tourettes, and other forms of involuntary body movements classify as addiction...
This is hilarious... I have no control over my blinking in every day life... And some people are offended by my eyes blinking (bullies at school, any excuse to cause trouble) and they beat me up every day after school.
Guess i must be addicted to having moist eyeballs... Roflmao.
Read the last part of the definition again....
And while the article went on and on this thread makes it's point. Adamantly denying addiction to games exist and making straw man arguments to avoid it. Really, blinking and tourettes? Come on.
I never said gaming-addiction wasn't real, i was commenting on the definition itself and its flawed phrasing, in addition to the sheer FACT that humans are creatures of habit and addiction, hence why addictions doesn't really mean much to begin with...
Stop villainizing me, i am not your emotional punching bag, and stop projecting your issues onto me... You are clogging up my notifications with strawman arguments, it's exhausting.
@sweltering-nick said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
@imoutofnames1 said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
@sweltering-nick said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
If we look at the definition in it's simplest form -
'Addiction is defined as not having control over doing, taking or using something to the point where it could be harmful to you.'
By that definition, people with tourettes, and other forms of involuntary body movements classify as addiction...
This is hilarious... I have no control over my blinking in every day life... And some people are offended by my eyes blinking (bullies at school, any excuse to cause trouble) and they beat me up every day after school.
Guess i must be addicted to having moist eyeballs... Roflmao.
Read the last part of the definition again....
And while the article went on and on this thread makes it's point. Adamantly denying addiction to games exist and making straw man arguments to avoid it. Really, blinking and tourettes? Come on.
I never said gaming-addiction wasn't real, i was commenting on the definition itself and its flawed phrasing, in addition to the sheer FACT that humans are creatures of habit and addiction, hence why addictions doesn't really mean much to begin with...
Stop villainizing me, i am not your emotional punching bag, and stop projecting your issues onto me... You are clogging up my notifications with strawman arguments, it's exhausting.
I replied to you once take a chill pill. Not everyone is out to get you. My assumption is multiple people are replying to you saying the same thing which is that your statements are ridiculous.
So I worked in the game industry for like 25 years and it all started when Activision and Blizzard merged.
That’s basically when every Publisher started hiring psychologist and using focus groups to measure brain patterns and determine the perfect balance of death, resplendent, leveling, all that crud. That’s why you see it in every game now.
Back in my day leveling in anything other than an RPG was just an absurd thought.
But since millenials have the attention span of a chicken this “mechanic” keeps you hooked. You all aren’t nearly as smart as you think you are.
Your more like Fredo smart from the God Father.
@sweltering-nick said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
@mrgrim67686 said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
@sweltering-nick said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
If we look at the definition in it's simplest form -
'Addiction is defined as not having control over doing, taking or using something to the point where it could be harmful to you.'
By that definition, people with tourettes, and other forms of involuntary body movements classify as addiction...
This is hilarious... I have no control over my blinking in every day life... And some people are offended by my eyes blinking (bullies at school, any excuse to cause trouble) and they beat me up every day after school.
Guess i must be addicted to having moist eyeballs... Roflmao.
SMH Just... no dude. Stop. I don’t usually directly address individuals. I tend to speak in very general terms. Royal you and all that, not the actual you.
You personally just made a series of very stupid analogies.
Addiction is a real thing and gaming companies study the phenomenon in order to yank dollars out of wallets.
That is a fact. The ones that don’t study it directly certainly put the scraps they know into practice.I know it’s disconcerting to think you are little more than electrochemical machine easily manipulated by outside stimuli, but welcome to life kiddo.
You’re not special. And that’s okay.
Never have i said addiction isn't real... Do not project your warped perceptions onto me and judge me by your standards... I said what i said, because the quoted phrasing of the definition, was flawed, because its meaning would also include stupid things like tourettes ticks as a form of addiction... Which is ludicrous, right?
I don't much appreciate your derogatory tone there, assuming i'm some kind of child who thinks he's special, i'm a hardcore nihilist, hence my brutally direct and honest behavior which you mistake for a "snowflake syndrome". ._.
The definition was qualified by the phrase “simplest form”. It wasn’t ever intended to be an in depth definition. Never called you a snowflake either, but a “hardcore nihilist” wouldn’t care anyway. I stay away from isms. Too restrictive. Here’s a book you may enjoy though.
"I replied to you once take a chill pill."
You think you're the only one to completely misinterpret my comment dude? ._.
"Not everyone is out to get you."
No, you're not out to get me, you're on these forums to resolve your emotional issues, although, you're not aware of it, given you think you're making relevant arguments instead of projecting your issues onto people and making blatant straw-man arguments because of it... Like you did just now... And making it everybody else's problem, which is annoying, and exhausting.
I am chill, bro, i promise you. x]
"My assumption is multiple people are replying to you saying the same thing which is that your statements are ridiculous."
Followed by them explaining why they're ridiculous by describing how they've completely misinterpreted what i said, because of their own emotional bias and pathological need to cherry pick arguments and logic to suit their narrative... Which is that i'm an idiot, and a child, apparently. ._.
You're free to think whatever you want of me, i honestly don't care what your opinion is of me.
"The definition was qualified by the phrase “simplest form”. It wasn’t ever intended to be an in depth definition."
Which is why i upvoted KattTruewalker's post. Because the comment i replied to did NOT make that clear.
"Never called you a snowflake either"
You never used those words, but you did insinuate it... Here's proof:
"**I know it’s disconcerting to think you are little more than electrochemical machine easily manipulated by outside stimuli, but welcome to life kiddo.You’re not special. And that’s okay.**" -mrgrim67686
"but a “hardcore nihilist” wouldn’t care anyway."
You think because i'm a nihilist, that i don't care about anything? lol. :P
You're right, i don't care about this particular thing, but forum moderators and admins do... You're breaking forum rules bro, talking down to people isn't allowed. You broke the rules.
"Here’s a book you may enjoy though."
Wow, your link for the book actually shows the entire book in the forum post, lol. xD
@sweltering-nick said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
@imoutofnames1 said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
@sweltering-nick said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
If we look at the definition in it's simplest form -
'Addiction is defined as not having control over doing, taking or using something to the point where it could be harmful to you.'
By that definition, people with tourettes, and other forms of involuntary body movements classify as addiction...
This is hilarious... I have no control over my blinking in every day life... And some people are offended by my eyes blinking (bullies at school, any excuse to cause trouble) and they beat me up every day after school.
Guess i must be addicted to having moist eyeballs... Roflmao.
Read the last part of the definition again....
And while the article went on and on this thread makes it's point. Adamantly denying addiction to games exist and making straw man arguments to avoid it. Really, blinking and tourettes? Come on.
I never said gaming-addiction wasn't real, i was commenting on the definition itself and its flawed phrasing, in addition to the sheer FACT that humans are creatures of habit and addiction, hence why addictions doesn't really mean much to begin with...
Stop villainizing me, i am not your emotional punching bag, and stop projecting your issues onto me... You are clogging up my notifications with strawman arguments, it's exhausting.
The saying is humans are creatures of habit, not "habit and addiction". Just because you decided to add "addiction" to the end doesn't make it a "FACT".
Also dont complain that someone is clogging up your notifications when they are responding to a comment you made on a public message board. That is how message boards work.
Eh. Rules. Who needs ‘em. Adults should be able to talk without nanny stepping in and yapping.
Good book though. Trip that it posted the entire thing. lol
"The saying is humans are creatures of habit, not "habit and addiction"."
I'm not referring to a saying, i'm, referring to a fact.
"Just because you decided to add "addiction" to the end doesn't make it a "FACT"."
An addiction is a habit that is dangerous and can get you killed or destroy your social life.
Such as drugs, or gaming, etc... Lots of things... Humans are factually creatures of habit and addiction, because since pre-historic times, we've been addicted to things that have killed us, and destroyed our social life. Playing with fire, hunting, bla bla bla.
So you are correct, it's not a fact because i said it's a fact, it's a fact, because it's a bloody fact. :P
"Also dont complain that someone is clogging up your notifications when they are responding to a comment you made on a public message board."
Replies are fine... Straw-man arguments, are not... Neither is trolling or spam, btw, which is what i would classify straw-man arguments as... Have a look at the forum rules.
https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/45966/sea-of-thieves-official-forum-rules
Have a good one! :3
@sweltering-nick said in Gaming Addiction, Design, and the Quest to Become Pirate Legend:
"The saying is humans are creatures of habit, not "habit and addiction"."
I'm not referring to a saying, i'm, referring to a fact.
"Just because you decided to add "addiction" to the end doesn't make it a "FACT"."
An addiction is a habit that is dangerous and can get you killed or destroy your social life.
Such as drugs, or gaming, etc... Lots of things... Humans are factually creatures of habit and addiction, because since pre-historic times, we've been addicted to things that have killed us, and destroyed our social life. Playing with fire, hunting, bla bla bla.
So you are correct, it's not a fact because i said it's a fact, it's a fact, because it's a bloody fact. :P
"Also dont complain that someone is clogging up your notifications when they are responding to a comment you made on a public message board."
Replies are fine... Straw-man arguments, are not... Neither is trolling or spam, btw, which is what i would classify straw-man arguments as... Have a look at the forum rules.
https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/45966/sea-of-thieves-official-forum-rules
Have a good one! :3
No you are wrong. An addiction is not a habit. Its just not.I am not sure where you get your information from but you are not correct.
Please spare me from any of your schooling on this subject, I do not need it. I studied human behavior/addiction for several years and have a bachelors degree in sociology/criminology. It is ok that you are wrong. People are wrong in life, that is how you learn, so why dont you go do some reading on the differences between habits and addiction. First good step is to learn the clinical definitions of both.
Also I remember you now. I have had a run ins with you before on these forums. You are very abrasive and rude and are a waste of time to discuss anything with because you think you are always right. On that note, I will not be wasting anymore of my time on you, have a good day.
"No you are wrong. An addiction is not a habit. Its just not."
... That's not an argument, that's just denial... ._.
If you can't come up with a logical argument for why i am wrong... Then i rest my case.
"It is ok that you are wrong. People are wrong in life, that is how you learn"
You are not my psychologist, nor are you my teacher... go away.
"First good step is to learn the clinical definitions of both."
Sigh Pay attention to the conversation please... If you're gonna participate, that's just common decency.
"You are very abrasive and rude and are a waste of time to discuss anything with because you think you are always right."
Abrasive? Yeah, that sounds like me... Rude? That's entirely subjective... I've met people who are offended by me merely declining an invitation to a birthday party... I've met people who were offended, and in fact started bullying me, simply because i pointed out a flaw in their school presentation with the intent of helping them.
What is rude, and what isn't, is subjective, and therefore, doesn't matter... But yeah i am abrasive, because quite frankly, from personal experience, i've learned that it's impossible to be on everyones good side... So now my only concern is logic and reason, regardless of who can appreciate that or not... Though i can tell, from your concern invested in other peoples "rudeness" that you don't have the same priorities.
Given your comments argument is literally "You are wrong, you are rude, you are not worth my time.", logic and reason clearly isn't high on your priority list... But suit yourself, man. : /
Regarding your comment on me thinking i'm always right... That's a coping mechanism, in order to structure my thoughts, to allow me to construct arguments... In order to do that, i operate on the assumption that i am correct... That doesn't necessarily mean i am correct... However, that doesn't stop be from occasionally being correct, regardless of what YOU personally think of my attitude. xD
"On that note, I will not be wasting anymore of my time on you, have a good day."
That's fine, you have a great day too, buddy! :)
A solid read indeed!
It reminds me of Destiny, and my disbelief at the fact that the developers were using psychological tricks to encourage more game play. Instead of making the games more fun to play, they were tricking our minds to chase useless goals.
It is called operant conditioning, and was founded by B.F. Skinner.
"Operant conditioning breaks down a task into increments. If you want to teach a pigeon to turn in a circle to the left, you give it a reward for any small movement it makes in that direction. Soon, the pigeon catches onto this and makes larger movements to the left, which garner more rewards, until the bird completes the full circle"
Just saw this video and it totally reminded me of this thread - not related to Sea of Thieves at all but well worth a watch.
Fortnite: Battle Royale messes with your brain in all the right ways!
@WilliamHerschel Great post mate, yet another well thought out thread which makes you think. And you pretty much nailed it for me in your reply @KattTruewalker
Have you both seen this Ted Talk before:
I remember watching it a year or two ago and found it really interesting seeing gaming from such a different perspective. :)
Edit: Im also going to tag you @captnjaq i read a post of yours earlier and somethings telling me you might find it interesting aswell, if you haven't seen it already. :)
If you want to discuss this topic. For the love of god, please learn what grind is. And how it differs from long term objectives.
Grind has a very specific meaning. Grinding is when a player does a SINGLE action to unlock something in an optimal time frame. How long something takes to unlock is completely irrelevant to grind. You can grind both short and long term goals. Grind is generally a verb and not an adjective. However, it IS valid to call any unlock that can ONLY be unlocked by a SINGLE activity a grind. But, if something can be unlocked numerous ways it's simply isn't.
I hope i don't need to explain long term vs short term objectives.
How is this relevant to SoT? Simple. Nothing about SoT is a grind. Rep can be earned through various methods. Voyage completion, turning in items found through the voyage, turning items found around islands or in boats, turning in items stolen from other players, or buying the rep packages from the bilge rats.
Calling ranks a grind is incorrect. Ranks are not a grind. They have numerous methods to obtain. You can CHOOSE to grind them. But that is your choice. Ranks are simply long-term goals. As they should be, and as players ask for.
These words have actual meanings. They do not mean what you want them to so they suit your particular needs. Sorry.
Facts over the following is my opinion:
People want 100s of hours out of thier $60. And this is the perfect way to go about imo. They do not hold back content from you. These unlocks are nothing more than personal achievement. There is no reason to go after them unless you enjoy playing the game and happen to play long enough. Nothing about them is addicting. If anyone goes after them and gets bored, that is just stupidity in the form of stubborness. And points to problems from the user, not the game.
