So, I often thought about where this game is going. Is this a PvP battle royale? Is it an RPG? An arcade game? Well right now it feels more like an arcade game that keeps adding more arcade elements. When you are grinding through the reputations you can expect to do the same grind over and over to reach the "Pirate Legend" status. However when you reach the PL status, the game is pretty much over. You can continue the same grind everyone else is doing to do the same thing for another reputation but that's it. There's no point to continue the game and even though Cursed Sails is fun, it's boring after the first day when you got people completing it. Besides it's something everyone can do, so no point to Pirate Legend status. Sure you can decorate your boat, but Pirate Legend F*****s can do that for normal crews as well and leave. The thing that attracted me to the game was the promise back before it was developed of "When you reach Pirate Legend status, you'll go on this epic quest to build your own boat with its own unique hull." The quest possibility alone drew me to it. When you become Pirate Legend, there should be a quest line that only Pirate Legends can do and get credit for. Just a nice, long, epic quest to rebuild a wrecked ship, or build your own, or more. People who reach PL are leaving because of the boredom. Adding new lands and new ways to do the same boring grind that everyone can do is just plain boring. Please Rare, you have a wonderful opportunity here to make this game go in one direction. I'm intrigued about the RPG elements and story elements. Make Pirate Legends feel legendary, and I'd advise doing that quickly before others just drift away and this game fades off into the nether. You can leave the reputation grind as a way to get to Pirate Legend, but once you become one you need a reason to continue or this game is done. I'm finding it difficult to get high in Athena reputation due to nothing good happening. Cosmetics isn't enough to keep me in the game.
Pirate Legend reached.....now what
@evilpsyko Okay....so Fairy is censored. In case this gets censored, Tinkerbell is one of what I'm trying to describe.
For me the grind was incredibly tiresome. Particularly OoS (pre GPB). Even doing some Athena's before PL was teaching me very quickly this game wasn't for me. That was months ago now, and I am glad I stuck through it. Why?
Well for starters the opening launch lack of content was disgusting. We really had nothing BUT the grind and player made items of interest.
The video linked dead on for me in alot of ways.
But honestly, alot happened once I finally did complete the grind and get to PL. I finally was able to approach the game without the repetitive false motivation of the grind. I logged on simply for the spirit of socialization. I found I couple plop down an Athena's for me and my pals and help make their grind easier by providing higher tier loot than the lower ranks was commonly providing at the time (and issue that still needs tighter tuning leaning towards even higher rewards still). I found that I could simply sail the waves and actually enjoy looking for PvP sport, so long as I wasn't just harassing others in my boredom it was fun. I found that I still had things to buy and therefore reasons to gain gold since I spent much of it on junk earlier, sadly I still have that need lol. In this case it's simply about being a completionist not the merit of the items themselves (Btw we need some more achievements or commendations for simply buying sets of stuff IMO). I had freedom to approach the game as I felt without being anchored to the grind.
But sadly we lacked appreciable content, and that did hurt.
Hungering Deep was a joke of content and the remaining Meg asset is still, for now, useless. But it was rather fun to engage in the multi-crew element as it gave me and others with spare time in game the freedom to help out others and be a more social pirate. Then came the weeklies... or Bi-weeklies as you'd have it. Being able to commit to those without feeling like I was skipping the all important grind... that's nice too. Then there's now Cursed Sails. It's something I can commit to without any sense of lost time, and I blame being PL on that ability. Because without it I'd likely just being farming skulls to complete my OoS, not to mention the new alliance system allowing us to grouip up and as everyone completes the Athena's we all get more expedient gains which is a bit of a nice feeling. Hopefully Forsaken Shores isn't the mess I predict it will be, full of lacking appreciable content, lack of reasons to live in the area, lack of PvP options, and so on...
My point here is that once I got to PL the game really became something new for me as I was able to approach the game from a whole new perspective. Not everyone will be enthused about the new perspective as I was, but it's there. Some food for thought if anything. Sadly, if something doesn't appeal to you - that's simply all there is to say, not everything is for everyone. If anything try to appeal to the larger groups of active outspoken players, we've got open discussions about forum topics we have in voice chat, we have 'clans' whom we talk about behind their back and catch gossip about as we trade anecdotes about the games meta, we've got real friendships in many cases which continue to develop, and more...
All because we socialize. So don't forget that point as well.
Ultimately I hope you simply have the most fun you can muster from the game PL doesn't instantly provide that but if you look things are a bit different once you hit PL, even if not by much. And much of that comes from a lack of pressure to grind.
@blooddoll22 Couldnt agree more. Once I hit PL I could actually enjoy the beautiful game that Rare has created for us. No pressure to grind the stupid same 3 mission types. Just enjoying the waves on the gorgeous seas. This is probaly what Rare ment in a sense what the end game means when you hit PL. More total pirate freedom to do whatever you want
@evilpsyko The game is not about grinding rep, it's about what you do along the way to grinding rep. (the journey)
There are two words that you often use in your text and that has lead towards that stale feeling of boredom: Grind and Level 50 or Legend.
Sea of Thieves is one of those few games that really just give you tools to make yer own story. Sure, it has little or no story and for me that is the Blessing...i've ,and probably many of you, have been playing truckloads of games that had a story , that took us by the hand , that numbed and almost killed our imagination because ....We simply didn't need it anymore ...Graphics have evolved in such a way that imagination was pushed to a corner where the shadow was hiding it from our sight , so we didn't see that our imagination was gathering dust ...That the start button to ignite yer imagination had become rusted.Mr Mike Chapman siad ,very recently on one of those Comicom conventions this line : " who hasn't been playing pirates on the playground of the school?". And this is true , when we were kids , we didn't had the pirate clothes , we didn't had a pirate ship. A climbing rack was our ship , a wooden branch our cutlass . But we had adventures because there was a movie being played inside your head...A movie in wich you were a pirate or a pirate Captain, you were the Burt Lancaster of the playground, the Errol Flynn ( * Errol Flynn???? Yo , yokel , these people you are talking to aren't dinosaurs like you, l****y bin resident....Use other names , use Flint, Silver, Vane and Sparrow or those youngsters put you on a stick ,pour some oil over you and use you as torch....moron) or Jack Sparrow.
And nomatter how far you throw it away in denial , those childhood adventures are the best and will stick to our minds even if we become 100 years.
i've been playing SOT now from the very first public Alpha session, back then you couldn't talk about it because of NDA rules.But now ,since release i don't feel tied to that anymore...
My adventures are not determined by grinding, are not played by only one goal , to become Legend.
i've met so many different and very beautiful characters that i think of them , and see up to them as Legends...And they don't have even half of my faction experience...i don't let my game being restricted by grinding or Levelling...If i do that ,then i better go play some single player, story based games.O, not one bad word about them but they switch off my imagination, restrict my game impulses and put my imagination on hold because everything is already orchestrated...
But this game...is so much different...Adventures are so random in experiences and feels.You can have the worst playsession ever that almost drag you to tears on what people have thrown at you, but the next server seems to be filled by semi Angels that pick you up, embrace you ,and accept you as their crewmate and led you towards Adventures that, although you've dug up an amount of gold that would make Fort Knox envious,you never had experienced before just because of all those unique personalities...Rare made a big , game with many oppertunities...If there is still a little bit imagination alive then you can mould a great story ...but....The biggest asset of this game is it's playerbase ...The ones that can play without griefing, verbal thrash and so on, can also lift your game up towards a height you never have been on....
Grinding or playing purely and alone for reaching Level 50 restricts you from so much.The less goals one set in this game...The more you get out of it by all these original personalities you are bound to meet...
You play your game the way you want it , all this text of mine was not meant to offend you , but i want to play ALL of this game , every layer ,even those i still haven't detected yet after all this time , but Levelling and grinding towards something that will come automaticly because of the many hours we spend in this game, will not focus and narrow my total vision of a game that is way much more than just levelling and grinding.
@chitownsace3 said in Pirate Legend reached.....now what:
@blooddoll22 Couldnt agree more. Once I hit PL I could actually enjoy the beautiful game that Rare has created for us. No pressure to grind the stupid same 3 mission types. Just enjoying the waves on the gorgeous seas. This is probaly what Rare ment in a sense what the end game means when you hit PL. More total pirate freedom to do whatever you want
The mistake most people make is just what your explaining... your looking at PL as necessary, it was never that important to begin with. Granted what rare meant is not just what we got, the captaincy DLC was postponed for more content that everyone got to partake in.
This isn't a "Grindy" game. It's what You're making of it, but it's by no means a grindy game for everyone else. We aren't required to be grinding to max level to be able participate in activities with anyone. There's no level requirements to participate in anything other than buying a legend voyage or buying legend gear. Pirate Legend (should) could just be something that happens as you play the game and have fun. Try not to have the mindset of having to "Grind" out everything and you may find more enjoyment in your activities in game.
@skullmanbeard said in Pirate Legend reached.....now what:
I made sure not to rush it and make the most of it. The crews i sailed and still sail with really make it all worth the while.
I knew what little was waiting for me and still am happy/content enough (i know more coming) and dont regret it and feels like i can actually start playing the game.
Its about the journey not the destination. Its only just beginning. Think of it as getting a head start
No.. its not the beginning... your doing the same thing when you reach PL vs when your not at PL... if you had to "grind" to get to PL you weren't playing the game. You were focused on achieving an unnecessary status and disregarded more fun aspects of the game.
@evilpsyko
Although I agree with the majority here who have virtually said sit back and enjoy the ride and enjoy the game for what it is, I also have to agree with you.
The game should have had all of this content in it before release and that's no excuse for still not expanding on the pirate legend side of the game, some four to five months later.
Just how long did Rare think it would take us to get this far?"Reaching pirate legend is just the beginning" Of what? Looking for another game to play?
The last six Athena attempts have resulted in 3 server crashes at the end just before cashing in and twice the crew gave up due to mindless continued PvP encounters preventing us from stopping at quest islands.
Yesterday we were sunk, had animal cages taken, somehow found replacements, found the required animals again and sold them by doing outpost drive-bys but we had five ships following our every move and couldn't stop at islands.
At least one of our Brigantine crew of three was always off the boat, digging up treasure chests, chasing animals or solving riddles simply because we had to keep moving.We sailed the entire map several times, we gave some the slip, we boarded, killed and sank some others only to run into even more. It was like the five ships were working together in an alliance with each other.
After a few hours of this we knew there was no way to finish off the last two OoS quest islands.
It's come to the point of saying "why bother" when it comes to Athena voyages.
We go through all of that c**p over several hours for what? Two to three grand. Pfft
Anyone can knock a fort out in ten to fifteen minutes and make a grand per minute.They've told us that new stuff bookmarked for pirate legends to do has been put on the back burner in lieu of content.
Bloody hair colour isn't content neither are hair styles.
Taking four months to create something that keeps some people amused for four seconds isn't developing content.The climb to Pirate Legend status is just another "Escalator To Nowhere".
@evilpsyko well i hit a10 and im now free of it all. Now i strictly fort hop for the pvp. The game is what you make it and i have yet to get bored. There is always something to improve on skill wise and grind for aka titles.
I also hoard my gold as much as possible for future content. With that in mind i was able to buy the whole ghost ship day of xpac.
Imo the game starts at pirate legend
@skullmanbeard said in Pirate Legend reached.....now what:
@savagetwinky
Ur missing the point that if i had fun with it it doesnt matter.That's a terrible point. And doesn't counter the point I made which can be summed as.. people dragged the experience down by focusing too much on PL and not enough in the moment gameplay. And its easy to point that out seeing so many people hit PL and talk about it as if a weight lifted off their game play, that they could experience the game differently and fully.
@savagetwinky said
And its easy to point that out seeing so many people hit PL and talk about it as if a weight lifted off their game play, that they could experience the game differently and fully.
You are absolutely correct. But what of folks like me who just plodded along without any big expectations?
Perhaps I shouldn't have done any Athena's until becoming PL myself but I certainly wasn't in any rush to what was then and still is now, the end game.Where's the carrot at the end of the stick for any PL?
All we have now are the bi-weekly events like everyone else except 93 x 2 - 3 hours voyages. And that's providing we're left in peace to do them or the server can last that long without it having a meltdown.
After the first few days of the bi-weekly honeymoon period it's business as usual.As others have said, all they do now is fort hop and ruin people's days. Generally giving all PLs a bad name.
Maybe I don't want to do that. I didn't like it when I was less experienced and I still don't like it now.
Have a battle, yeah sure, either win or lose but get over it and move on. Don't pester other people for hours on end.PvP is like almost everything in life. A little here and there in moderation isn't all that bad but so many have turned to PvP simply due to there being nothing else to do that isn't mind-numbing, tedious and boring.
A game is meant to be fun for everyone. I sincerely pity new comers.
@evilpsyko
Looks like You played minecraft, built city, base, farm, killed dragon and this... other thing...? And now what? Its end game, all of this You made during play time was pointless and time waste.No it wasnt, game is meant to be fun while PLAYING not when You reach the end.
@admiral-rrrsole said in Pirate Legend reached.....now what:
@savagetwinky said
And its easy to point that out seeing so many people hit PL and talk about it as if a weight lifted off their game play, that they could experience the game differently and fully.
You are absolutely correct. But what of folks like me who just plodded along without any big expectations?
Perhaps I shouldn't have done any Athena's until becoming PL myself but I certainly wasn't in any rush to what was then and still is now, the end game.Where's the carrot at the end of the stick for any PL?
All we have now are the bi-weekly events like everyone else except 93 x 2 - 3 hours voyages. And that's providing we're left in peace to do them or the server can last that long without it having a meltdown.
After the first few days of the bi-weekly honeymoon period it's business as usual.As others have said, all they do now is fort hop and ruin people's days. Generally giving all PLs a bad name.
Maybe I don't want to do that. I didn't like it when I was less experienced and I still don't like it now.
Have a battle, yeah sure, either win or lose but get over it and move on. Don't pester other people for hours on end.PvP is like almost everything in life. A little here and there in moderation isn't all that bad but so many have turned to PvP simply due to there being nothing else to do that isn't mind-numbing, tedious and boring.
A game is meant to be fun for everyone. I sincerely pity new comers.
You don't need a carrot. Either you like the core loop or you don't. The problem is most people don't like the game and just want to PvP. Play fortnite i say.
Games are not meant to be fun for everyone. Otherwise we'd only need 1 game.
@savagetwinky said
You don't need a carrot. Either you like the core loop or you don't.
There needs to be a goal in every game, if not everything in life. Pretty graphics only keep us around for so long.
Look at it like a relationship that's going nowhere. Sure that person might be pretty on the outside but that attraction soon wears off when you discover that's all they've got going for them.
But if they don't tick all of the boxes then you play with them a little, hoping to see a glimmer of hope for them, until you get bored before moving on.
The same comparison could be done with a job or an employee.The problem is most people don't like the game and just want to PvP. Play fortnite i say.
You and I mustn't be reading the same posts. Many have said that they love the game but have turned to PvP simply out of boredom. They've found the three faction fetch quests too repetitious.
Games are not meant to be fun for everyone.
I'm sorry but you've lost me here. If games are not meant to be fun then why do we play them?
Otherwise we'd only need 1 game.
This is like saying food isn't meant to taste good otherwise we'd eat the same dish every day.
@admiral-rrrsole said in Pirate Legend reached.....now what:
@savagetwinky said
You don't need a carrot. Either you like the core loop or you don't.
There needs to be a goal in every game, if not everything in life. Pretty graphics only keep us around for so long.
Look at it like a relationship that's going nowhere. Sure that person might be pretty on the outside but that attraction soon wears off when you discover that's all they've got going for them.
But if they don't tick all of the boxes then you play with them a little, hoping to see a glimmer of hope for them, until you get bored before moving on.
The same comparison could be done with a job or an employee.Of course, but games don't need a goal that spans more than one session. As an entertainment medium.. sitting down to go on an adventure to collect/steal/plunder/defend loot is a goal.
Not everything needs long term goals. Especially if the long term goals don't add to the core loop in any way. As progression isn't unlocking new mechanics... if they are bored now they'll be bored later.
The problem is most people don't like the game and just want to PvP. Play fortnite i say.
You and I mustn't be reading the same posts. Many have said that they love the game but have turned to PvP simply out of boredom. They've found the three faction fetch quests too repetitious.
If they are bored, they don't like the game. The fetch quests are aren't the sum of the game and are just minimalist goals to get people to sail around, collect loot, and cross each other's paths.
Games are not meant to be fun for everyone.
I'm sorry but you've lost me here. If games are not meant to be fun then why do we play them?
You got lost because you didn't read it correctly. They aren't meant to be fun for everyone. Its impossible to design games that cater to everyone.
Otherwise we'd only need 1 game.
This is like saying food isn't meant to taste good otherwise we'd eat the same dish every day.
no it isn't.
@savagetwinky
Point taken. Although you could still like a game (or at least elements of it) even though you are bored of it.
You might like Asian food, there is a fair bit of variety on the menu but if you just eat the fried rice day after day and even though you like the rice, you'll eventually get bored with it.
It's not the fact that you dislike Asian food, it's because you aren't experiencing the sweet and sour pork or the lemon chicken, noodles, etc.The game is serving us the same rice dish and it lessens our appetite.
I've seen good posts, and I've seen posts by a lot of "fan boys" who say that a game doesn't need a purpose after you reach the end. Those posts usually tend to be on the side of reaching PL and turning it into Facebook on a boat. I've seen a lot of "You still have the social aspect", you have that through the game. There are a lot of people that complain in and out of game about how once you become PL there's nothing to do. You can do the Athena grind, but it's boring and thus people don't do it. To say go find another game if you don't like doing the same thing over and over and over and over is a lousy business model and is not fun for keeping a game going especially if Rare truly wishes to keep the 10 year plan going.
For those saying "You don't need a carrot on a stick" then you miss the point of all games. You need the carrot on a stick to have a purpose, a reason to keep playing. However my point from my original post was more along the lines of "Why does Pirate Legend status seem pointless and useless?" So you've reached PL, that's when you have to answer now what? Do I continue to do the same thing and try to make money facing player enemies who often just want to be left alone and get along with anyone like any carebear would? Perhaps maybe going on a killing spree to pass the time. Pirate Legend is supposed to feel legendary, it doesn't. It feels like you've cleaned your house and now have nothing else to do, so what's the point in continuously using the vacuum? You can go to another game, but this game would just die off and have no purpose and becomes one of those game in which had such potential but didn't take advantage.
Those that are saying they love the "social aspect" of the game will get bored of the game too very quickly and move on to something else.
@admiral-rrrsole said in Pirate Legend reached.....now what:
@savagetwinky
Point taken. Although you could still like a game (or at least elements of it) even though you are bored of it.
You might like Asian food, there is a fair bit of variety on the menu but if you just eat the fried rice day after day and even though you like the rice, you'll eventually get bored with it.
It's not the fact that you dislike Asian food, it's because you aren't experiencing the sweet and sour pork or the lemon chicken, noodles, etc.The game is serving us the same rice dish and it lessens our appetite.
And you can always come back to it, you didn't need to order every week for the last year to unlock kung pow chicken. Not all games need a progression system, and there are too many games that focus on a progression system and not just being able to have a fun evening without heavy investments. That was one of the things this game was promising essentially, keeping the community together which means minimalist approach to gating mechanics.
And your example has nothing to do with PL content... or something to work towards. Your conflating not enough on the menu with an incentive system to ordering on the menu.
@savagetwinky There's no doubt I will continue to come back to it.
I bought the game (shares in the take away shop) so from now on I eat for free. :o)
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