"The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rogue Wave Event) *Updated 11/18*

@enf0rcer

Now that we are getting Area is this needed?

@lucky-13-x said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@enf0rcer

Now that we are getting Area is this needed?

This is to give an example of solving the PvP issue without requring a new mode. As some player felt it could not be solved with out one. This is directly adressing that main cruqtic while also given a solution to the root problem of the main game. Which how do you make loot worth Stealing?

Instead of being forced into a tight combat senario and being put in direct compation with other pirates. I'm not agianst competion but this wasn't the experiance SoT uniquely offered.

@savagetwinky said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@enf0rcer said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@lucky-13-x said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@enf0rcer

Now that we are getting Area is this needed?

This is to give an example of solving the PvP issue without requring a new mode. As some player felt it could not be solved with out one. This is directly adressing that main cruqtic while also given a solution to the root problem of the main game. Which how do you make loot worth Stealing?

Instead of being forced into a tight combat senario and being put in direct compation with other pirates. I'm not agianst competion but this wasn't the experiance SoT uniquely offered.

But it doesn't solve the PvP issue. This is only an incentive to PvP not a gurantee any one will want to try to take it. Or it will be a completely unbalanced mess with the entire server after your chest.

This by it self doesn't solve the problem and is only a peice of the puzzle i ain't done yet son. Second you gave 2 contradictary and counter balancing statements.
Yes there will be a senario were Nobody goes after the chest.
Yes there will be a senario where everyone in the server once to get the chest.
But your not seeing all the other senario inbetween

You will have senarios where only a segment of players will engage.

Look at it like a skull fort with an added risk

You don't know how much the reaper chest is worth. It could be worth nothing.

If people fight back planks are worth fighting for. PvE player's feel entitled to their effort. The main problem with PvP has nothing to do with something being worth stealing. It's how 2 groups of people perceive the mechanics.

No it's how you percive the mechnics. The mechnics was meant to be around the propsect of any every looming and unknown treat as an experiance.

Its just as hit or miss as the base game is now. At least arena is getting everyone involved with PvP and spreading it across many maps. They said you'll start with the maps so even arena isn't necessarily sticking you into tight combat scenarios. Its just hopefully... tighter space and everyone being engaged with PvP. You can't guarantee that in a sandbox. The sandbox is the flaw here.

Not garrentying combat wasn't the flaw the flaw is how the base combat engagement worked and what it focused on.

I not agianst forced combat senarios as an option especially when it comes to ship to ship combat which is the most structurely sound and developed part of the game IMO. I just don't want it to overshadow the other more underdevelop parts. I want them to be full developed first thats all.

@x-crowheart-x said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@ENF0RCER

https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/75700/suggestions-for-the-reaper-s-mark

Here is another thread about the Reaper's Mark started by @MagicJack69 with his twist. Good stuff there as well.

I also posted a variation in his discussion of using the flag or a new version as a Capture the Flag / King of the Sea event.

https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/75700/suggestions-for-the-reaper-s-mark/9

Added thanks. Will be starting a list with a references tread soon

@savagetwinky said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@enf0rcer said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@savagetwinky said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@enf0rcer said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@lucky-13-x said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@enf0rcer

Now that we are getting Area is this needed?

This is to give an example of solving the PvP issue without requring a new mode. As some player felt it could not be solved with out one. This is directly adressing that main cruqtic while also given a solution to the root problem of the main game. Which how do you make loot worth Stealing?

Instead of being forced into a tight combat senario and being put in direct compation with other pirates. I'm not agianst competion but this wasn't the experiance SoT uniquely offered.

But it doesn't solve the PvP issue. This is only an incentive to PvP not a gurantee any one will want to try to take it. Or it will be a completely unbalanced mess with the entire server after your chest.

This by it self doesn't solve the problem and is only a peice of the puzzle i ain't done yet son. Second you gave 2 contradictary and counter balancing statements.
Yes there will be a senario were Nobody goes after the chest.
Yes there will be a senario where everyone in the server once to get the chest.
But your not seeing all the other senario inbetween

You will have senarios where only a segment of players will engage.

Look at it like a skull fort with an added risk

You don't know how much the reaper chest is worth. It could be worth nothing.

I don't need to address the in betweens to get my point across... this is neither balanced or reliable. It's not a fix for the main game having imbalanced or unreliable PvP. The loot had value early and now it doesn't. This is a short term fix and doesn't guarantee any amount of longevity to PvP.. if any.

Your right by it self doesn't solved the imbalances of PvP and this isn't the complete idea as this was not mine. However This unreliable PvP i don't see as an issue but a feature. I want to not know where and when of if im goning get attacked. Thats the experience i want to preserve. This idea is a long term one the rep will be dynamic sorry as i haven't posted this yet still working on it.

If people fight back planks are worth fighting for. PvE player's feel entitled to their effort. The main problem with PvP has nothing to do with something being worth stealing. It's how 2 groups of people perceive the mechanics.

No it's how you percive the mechnics. The mechnics was meant to be around the propsect of any every looming and unknown treat as an experiance.

This is the design principle not the effective gameplay functionality. And your point has nothing to do with player motivations, or how the mechanics allowed PvE players to see it as their voyage, their effort, their reward.

It there fort and their reward on turn in. That's the SoT way. This has to be expected as that IS the experience.

Its just as hit or miss as the base game is now. At least arena is getting everyone involved with PvP and spreading it across many maps. They said you'll start with the maps so even arena isn't necessarily sticking you into tight combat scenarios. Its just hopefully... tighter space and everyone being engaged with PvP. You can't guarantee that in a sandbox. The sandbox is the flaw here.

Not garrentying combat wasn't the flaw the flaw is how the base combat engagement worked and what it focused on.

Focused on? You mean not nothing each other so PvP fell flat fighting those players and it became harder and harder to find good PvP. So yes your right, the flaw was the base.. (see the point I made above this one), which cause an erosion of good PvP. This is because PvP is based on an incentive based system and people don't need to bother doing it. Its trying to create value in PvP because the item your fighting for has value...

The problem was what you were fighting for had no gamplay benfit to you thus was Worthless. But your right that combat was a skill and with no method to garrenty combat the skill inherently degrades. That's why players have asked for inter crew fights as a means to practice.

The problem is your system allows for people to not participate. That particular chest will not always have value and people playing in the same space you are can choose to not participate and do something else. That's the problem with the current system.

You see i want there to be a option not to engage thats the point. It's not a problem for players like me. The problem was this games PvP became merely focused on the fights themselves vs the focus of find ways of stealing loot from your fellow pirates there has to be an option for those who don't engage in direct combat. Your suggestion only caters to one group. I find myself as part of many. I looking at this from multiple sides.

You don't need to create a value for some progression system that will only last until people don't need it any more. You need a cohesive game where everyone is tasked with getting the objectives against other players... and that is the point of the game in totality. There are no PvPvE games that I've seen work that do not limit the scope of the game to shared resources/objectives to create a conflict between players naturally. Even survival sandboxes create a shortage of resources which creates meaningful conflict between players and the player that has the resources has empathy for their attacker because they know, I got them he doesn't...

The Division Darkzone did this and quite well except for a few flaws. Players could choose to corperate or tuen on eachother. The loot was preety much easily generated it was Rng based but the differnce there was the loot had a value to gameplay but was perminate which PvP perpetually unbalanced. In SoT it's skill based so if you 1 you could still steal from a PL assuming you had the skill to do it. The problem is still the loot itself is worthless to you and is now a liablity till it's turned in.

So you haven't solve the issue that plague's SoT and that there are other things to do in the sand box and people do not participate in PvP.

The player that don't want to participate are the sheep or what i call the chickens for us snakes to hunt. You want snakes to fight other snakes i'm not agians't this except i still want to be able to hunt chicken and have them grow into fat juicy Pigs. Your given me one experiance in exchange for another i want to be able to have both.

I not agianst forced combat senarios as an option especially when it comes to ship to ship combat which is the most structurely sound and developed part of the game. I just don't want it to overshadow the other more underdevelop parts. I want them to be full developed first thats all.

The "underdeveloped" parts were underdeveloped for equality / simplicity in the context of PvP. They already were restricted for the sake of PvP.

Not what i was taking about. Your talking strictly about combat i'm talking about the system as a whole.

You can't force people to PvP unless you limit their options to basically PvP only. That's why arena mode solve's the problems with PvP. Everyone is opting in when they select it.

Player are already forced in PvP. There just not forced into combat. You focus only on the combat side of PvP their nothing wrong with that it's just a very narrow view which makes it difficult for you to grasp what i'm talking about. I understant you want a competion, you want a good fight garrentied. But many other games already offer this experiance. While SoT can have it's take on it. I don't want to give up on the other unique experiances it offered.

@savagetwinky said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@enf0rcer said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

Your right by it self doesn't solved the imbalances of PvP and this isn't the complete idea as this was not mine. However This unreliable PvP i don't see as an issue but a feature. I want to not know where and when of if im goning get attacked. Thats the experience i want to preserve. This idea is a long term one the rep will be dynamic sorry as i haven't posted this yet still working on it.

It's not a "feature", its not well structured and its predictably rare.

No. It's just not structured in the form of a competion which is what you want. I understand this but I'm looking for and experience outside of a competion.

It there fort and their reward on turn in. That's the SoT way. This has to be expected as that IS the experience.

No. This doesn't address what I said.

You said how can we make player feel entitle to there effort and rewards and time. I'm parphasin obviously.

The answers is You don't: Nothing is yours untill you turn it in. Now if you want to add things like rep awarded to voyage completion i'm fine with that.

The problem was what you were fighting for had no gamplay benfit to you thus was Worthless. But your right that combat was a skill and with no method to garrenty combat the skill inherently degrades. That's why players have asked for inter crew fights as a means to practice.

This has nothing to do with skill. Loot isn't important to gameplay if you already have everything, apart from the experience of retrieving it.

Which is why i'm asking for loot to have properties that add to the experiance in the frist place.

You see i want there to be a option not to engage thats the point. It's not a problem for players like me. The problem was this games PvP became merely focused on the fights themselves vs the focus of find ways of stealing loot from your fellow pirates there has to be an option for those who don't engage in direct combat. Your suggestion only caters to one group. I find myself as part of many. I looking at this from multiple sides.

There is a difference between giving the players an option to not engage... vs opt out of PvP all together. Who says you'll have to engage in PvP in the arena? They said there will be multiple maps. If your good you can swoop and grab uncontested loot before any one else and potentially turn it in... So how does my suggestion cater to one group? Its an actual shared world adventure game because everything is shared. It just creates a potentially necessity to fight instead of a player deciding to gank you.

Ah What are you talking about? The Loot Is The Point of Engagement in the Arena is it not? Everyone gets the same maps to the same loot. Is that not the point or did i miss something? Your just making it a race then.
I don't want a Race i want to Steal.
And is gonna be incrediably difficult to steal if they know for sure i'm comin.

The Division Darkzone did this and quite well except for a few flaws. Players could choose to corperate or tuen on eachother. The loot was preety much easily generated it was Rng based but the differnce there was the loot had a value to gameplay but was perminate which PvP perpetually unbalanced. In SoT it's skill based so if you 1 you could still steal from a PL assuming you had the skill to do it. The problem is still the loot itself is worthless to you and is now a liablity till it's turned in.

Again doesn't address the point I was making. The reason people fight in the darkzone is contested resources.

The resources are not always contested thou you have to Choose to contest it.

And ignores the other point I've made, resources do not have to have value beyond gameplay value. The only point to having loot on board your ship is gameplay value. The only point to collecting loot is gameplay value. If the PvE experience is fairly shallow, then the only depth and value loot has is the potential of theft. And if everyone can opt out of PvP than the loot has no value as well as the PvE.

The point you made about planks and resource i find was a Mote Point cause i steal resources all the time. No loot provides no value to gamplay an are ment to be a shared objective Goal for PvE and PvP they failed to do this and thus they no long offer gameplay value as they inherently do effect gameplay. They are now simply serve as a Shallow PvE Objective with no substance.

The player that don't want to participate are the sheep or what i call the chickens for us snakes to hunt. You want snakes to fight other snakes i'm not agians't this except i still want to be able to hunt chicken and have them grow into fat juicy Pigs. Your given me one experiance in exchange for another i want to be able to have both.

And you can still have both.

I don't see how. Chicken by their nature don't go near a fight and stay far away therefore they will only exist in the core game while all the snakes will go to arena and that will become the meta. Now that Arena is going to be a thing i expect Rare deal with the problem with PvP in the Core Game ghe same way they dealt with Open Crews and Closed crews. They will simply consider the matter closed.

Not what i was taking about. Your talking strictly about combat i'm talking about the system as a whole.

I'm refering to what you talked about, As i've already pointed out combat, specifically PvP, is the only well developed part of this game. Everything else's value is setting up situations to create PvP. It currently doesn't do that well enough because again... the loot is not a contested resources and everyone gets their own.

Your also forgeting that the loot it self is to easy to and uniteresting to obtain and agian offers no real subtance to gamply. If this problem is not adressed and the loot does not serve the core funtion then they might as well remove loot from Adventure mode all togther.

Player are already forced in PvP. There just not forced into combat. You focus only on the combat side of PvP their nothing wrong with that it's just a very narrow view which makes it difficult for you to grasp what i'm talking about. I understant you want a competion, you want a good fight garrentied. But many other games already offer this experiance. While SoT can have it's take on it. I don't want to give up on the other unique experiances it offered.

If you can't describe something, your just talking BS. It just means your irrationally against change because of some religious belief about the game you hold.

The Problem doesn't lie with my ablity to explian , but Rather your ablity to understand. I can explian to you in detial to the cows come home. It wouldn't make a difference. You simply don't have the experiance required. There are somthings that lie beyond your perception this has nothing to do with religious. As this is caused by a limitation of the mind.

What other unique "PvP"... the arena is still doing voyages in a sandbox. Its basically the same thing except there isn't an infinite amount of loot spread out across the entire map. At least that's the way I interpreted what they said.

Here i belived we reached an impass. No futher amount of discussion with you will lead to anything. I do appreciate your insights and point of view. I will also continue on and will be on for the Arena test.

But this fuss could have all been avoided if Rare would have made the arena as part of the main session except a completly sepreate mode. Perhapse it's not to late to make that happen.

@savagetwinky said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@enf0rcer

Impasse? I feel like you still don't quite have a grasp on the shared maps concept. The fact is its the same mechanics the main game, and essentially the same sandbox. Except all loot is known about upfront like a fort but spread out. They said all players would have the same maps, and they wanted to keep the flexibility and spirit of the main game. We don't now exactly how spread out they'll be, or how much map is available.. so we don't know how much conflict will be necessary. It could be 1 x... lots of conflict. Or it could be 20 x's on 10 islands and lots of wiggle room for seeking out uncontested loot. Or it could be 50000 pieces of loot and play out identical to the main game because there are no conflict points. Enough loot for everyone!

Dude i completly grasp to concept of a shared voyage system as i had disscussed with you at length in your posr you made before the announcement hell I have had this discussion even before that.

Now think of the scenarios ...

1. 2 players go to 2 different parts and don't bother each other.
2. 1 player arrives before the other and now has to defend the loot from the 2nd.
3. Both players arrive around the same time and fight it out for dominance.

I have already concidered the all the senarios and while yes there all well and good my contention with this announcement is not repeat NoT the concept. I like the concept. My concern is with the implementation and the consequences of it. As i see it as a threat to a core experience and the chance to see the issues i want adressed. Now Captian Falcore mention in his latest video tryed to alliveate and address this concern. Now i hope hes right. He says you can access The Arena from inside the main game, and if this is infact true this disscusion will be laid to rest but that is not what Mike said. Now If Mike simply goofed then were arguing for nothing. But my trust in Rare has wained quite abit. Even so Arena may solve the problem of getting players into PvP it still does not adress root issues of PvP in the main game. So long as these problem remain my and the community proposel stands.

** This could create scenarios of fighting on land... think... Jack Sparrow! The kind of goonies level nonsense that happens on land

You so obviously trying to win me over with my word as you still clearly don't understand what i meant when i used them. So don't do that your not making feel better as it like your treating as a child. This is more condesending and I'm tring to be respectful.

4. 1 player spots another player and decides to gank him and see if he's picked up anything yet

Basically in the current game 1+4 are the only common scenarios. 1 is the general rule... and you can do that monotonously for hours with little excitement. 4 is the exception that might happen to you or becomes your choice. 2+3 are relegated to forts.

These senario are all great but not a single one provides the experience i'm talking about. There all excellent senarios that deliver a similar experiance.

Basically to fix PvP you need to make 1-4 more evenly distributed, and the best way to do that is limit the goals/area that the players are playing in to create some actual conflicts of interest, and shared locations people will need to go to. You can't do that with your suggestion... we got something already which is basically a broadcast that says come gank me... except now we know you have loot... but that doesn't mean people will care. There are still other things to do so there is no conflict of interest unless all parties want that item. The "opt in" is the problem with PvP. If no one else opts in... there is no pvp.

Your talking about Flashpoints. There a simple way of condensing what you said. As far as the Opt-in part you are aware that opt-pvp existed in all it's Glory before Hunger Deep Right? The issue was if you take away the reason to fight and replace it with working together guess what happens. People work together and not want to fight. You have to give the fight legitimacy they did the oppsite by demonizing it. Thats what happend.

It's almost a mirror image of the main game, where there is no particularly good reason to be hostile... this game mode there is no particularly good reason to be friendly. Its the best way they can approach PvP really...

No it isn't. It's literally the best hits of SoT. Mike and Joe made that very clear. They want to artifically induce and arrange a select amount of of possible experiances that you could have in the game. In other words they want to distill the game.

Also the darkzone has ... drumroll ... open resources for all to grab. You can contest it before someone else gets it. And it's highly beneficial to gank each other. So if you didn't quite make it to the thing first you can always extract it off the corpse of who did.

So Sot has the same thing. All resources are open to grab also you can contest all loot. The loot itself is not interesting to steal cause it isn't locied to certian locations. Which honestly SoT Could and should do more of. In the DarkZone the loot was only contested if you were in a contested area. If not you could just take your stuff and go. It was benifical to gank cause it was alot easier to wait outside a contested and steal what you wanted. There where inharent FlashPoint tied to both the games map and the loot. As each area had clear entrance and exit points and unique Loot was tied to those areas. I you wanted that loot you had to go to that are and ether
A. Farm the area yourself or with a team and defend the loot
(Sot has plenty of this except could be improved on by how the loot acts and where it spawns)
B. Camp outside the area for players to complete it so you can steal the loot.
(SoT has very little of this and needs alot more. Mainly at skull fort and somthing i love to do and i'm very efficent at)
C. Infiltrate a team with the loot and backstab them at the extraction point.
(SoT tried to do this. It does happen very rarely with Alliances but it does't work or play well)

@br0crastinat0r said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

Sea of Thieves does not need any pvp incentive apart from the ability to pvp. Was and is supposed to be “organic”. What it does need is more and In-depth pve content for there so called random encounters. Looking forward to the Arena and anything new to the Sea of Thieves.

Rare already went down this route. It clearly doesn't work. Pvp needs and entire system restructure and have Loot fullfill it's intended purpose of being a shared Goal uniting PvE with PvP. Please see my post on given loot Gamply Value in the link above. Located at the bottom of th OP

@xshaduh said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

The arena is coming out in February, something like this will most likely come out after the Arena, Is this a necessary thing?

Yes as Arena still does not solve the problem at the core of base SoT. Arena is a condensed PvP centered focus verison of SoT. While it may provide a good PvP experiance it will do so artificially not providing the same tention and intriguing experience that base SoT offered as You never Knew who was Freind and Who was Foe. The Arena is a competion therfore the line is drawn and clear cut, danger is eminate and time is agiasn't you.
It's great for things like races and brawls and ship battles
The thing is that isn't the same experiance as theift i come to love about SoT, Like the Hunt as i stalk my prey and wait for my opportunity to strike. I will explain this more as i continue to build the Rouge Wave Treads there quite alot. Yes i would expect this to take alot of dev time to do. This was to serve a therorethical outline to an ideal community update that delivers on the experiance we come to expect by adressing the root problem in the game. In Arena all those core issues still exist. There just not highlighted as it will be a condense version of the base game.

@br0crastinat0r said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@enf0rcer I believe they are, it’s called the Arena. Unfortunately I have read way to may paragraphs on this subject.

Yeah and unfortunatly that structure is a sepreate condense version giving an artificial experiance instead of an organic one.

@br0crastinat0r said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@enf0rcer absolutely. If you want an organic experience, keep sailing in the Sea of Thieves. But if you want quick fast action, The Arena will be the place.

I'm fine with having a place for quick fast pace action. That's not my concern.

I know I’ll be in both. Do me a solid and give it a chance. Give sincere feedback if or when given the chance to test the Arena.

I think you fail to understand my stance on the matter. I'm not opposed to the Arena's concept I'm opposed to the veiw it will create. As it most likely be excuse to say PvP is fixed in SoT when infact none of the core issues were solved in the main game Leading to PvP being further illegitimize and demonized in Adventure mode making it pure PvE.

I already said i will be on to test Arena and will give my honest an unbaised feedback to the best of my ablity to Rare as I've always done. I am a competive and serious Gamer so i'm sure i will enjoy the Experience arena has to offer. I just don't want it at the expenses of the unique experiance SoT originally gave me. Is that so worng?

@x-crowheart-x said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@ENF0RCER unfortunately @BR0CRASTINAT0R is right. Right now with the whiff of blood in the air for The Arena it is going to be difficult to gain an traction on ideas to bring more chances of PvP to the real Sea of Thieves.

The organic debate is no longer a valid one to argue against breathing some life into player battles. With the content that Rare has released they have been planting the seeds and fertilizing the opposite. PvP has less of a chance to sprout with all the PvE centric Bildge Rats adventures.

With die hard players dropping out and the slow influx of players drawn to the sea late, organic PvP has withered. Now Rare has plucked out the best remaining chances of organic PvP and is transplanting it to force it to grow in The Arena.

Maybe the writing was always on the tavern wall all along...

https://www.seaofthieves.com/game/the-bilge-rats

They have been shouting the other game mode all along mate.

I agree the battle is already concided i just wanted to give a glimps into the other possible updates that sadly will most likly never to see as some were saying there are no other solution. Thats simply false as there were many solutions given by this community that were never even attempted and agian most likely never will. I wanted to create a share tread topics that collect and arrange all these ideas in the outline of a Content Drop. That the goal. So if someone says there was no other way you can refer them here.

This however not only solution but simply 1 alternative fully fleshed out.

@br0crastinat0r said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rouge Wave Event):

@enf0rcer There is nothing wrong with pvp. If anything is to blame, I would put it on the alliance system. To me The Sea of Thieves is a place I can do whatever I want and defend myself from others if they want what I have. There is nothing preventing that. All I can tell you and others is be more pirate. If anything’s going to hurt The Sea of Thieves, it will be a lack of incentive to set sail and explore this wonderful world we have so far.

Your right Alliances Did play a big role as it change the foundamentle view of the Purpose PvP in the minds of the Playerbase. As it deiligitimised stealing.

@x-crowheart-x said in "The Hunt" An opt-in PvP event (Rogue Wave Event) *Updated 11/18*:

@enf0rcer

When I saw this it made me think of your Reaper Chest.

This pic looks awesome. I have a community member working on a drawing rightnow. Thanks for the image.