My friend says there's no skill cap and that this game is dead. I'm trying to convince
him that it's not dead and that there is a skill cap. Is there a skill cap? Is the game dead?
I love this game but my friend thinks it's the worst game ever. Thank you for your answers.
Is there a skill cap in SoT?
@targasbr Thanks for your answer! I agree with you.
My friend says that you can't practice shooting and aiming like you can in fortnite...
Why would you not be able to practice aiming in this game... There are guns...
There's aiming... and he also says that you can't compare shooting in this game
with shooting in fortnite..Decision making, and execution of intent are the key to most games.
Taking a few games as examples:
Farmville - Little decision making, no real execution of controls, just relax and improve your estate. No real failure involved, except spending real $ on gems.
Clash of Clans - more decision making than execution of controls. Failure is just a slap in your face for planning poorly
Mario - Little decision making, but need good execution of controls, a failure in either results in restarting the level, with little loss until lives used up.
Fortnite - Some decision making on when to engage/where to fight from, need higher execution of controls, a failure results in watching the rest of squad finish up, or if solo just re-queing. Nothing is lost.
Sea of Thieves - More decision making needed in ship battles, as you need to plan what your intent is and adjust things on the ship to make it happen. Execution of controls is not as supreme as CS/fortnite/etc, but will still separate good from bad in combat. Failure is costly, as time spent gathering loot is lost if the loot is lost.
Dota 2 - Intense decision making from the composition of the heroes, to the itemization, to the intent of where to scout/ward and where to farm, when to fight and when not to. Very high requirement of execution of controls, from constant denials/last hits forcing you to be accurate, to having a single missclick (graving yourself, chrono team, fail RP, etc) lose games. Time of investment in the game is lost, 30 mins of build up to fail one big fight, and it's over.
As you can see, some games suit people better than others.
SoT is more costly to lose in than fortnite, yet also isn't as execution specific in building/jumping ADSing, more decision based.If your friend wants to say fortnite is supreme, because you can be fast with building (2 buttons and spinning.. wow) and can shotgun someone while jumping down from the building, let him, because to him it probably is. Don't destroy his world by having him try CS or .... dota.
So back to original question:
Skill cap.. no. You can only get better at aiming to a point, to mastering sword manuevers of when to block/etc but having a control over how to react, what to plan to do in any situation.... that takes experience and learning from it.
Do you jump off the ship with a keg to try to blow them up only to miss and not see a mermaid for nearly 2 minutes of swimming? Do you shoot yourself out of the cannon to their ship only to die to them waiting at the ladder and your crew yells to turn the ship but you left the wheel?
There are so many decisions to make that have consequence. It is why ship combat is as stressful and fun.@targasbr said in Is there a skill cap in SoT?:
I played the fortnite few times and I do not know how it really works. but if it's similar to PUBG, it's basically the same thing, the difference is that in these Battleroyale games you also depend on luck to fall into a place with enough loot.
Fortnite is very different to PUBG.
While the premise of the games are similar, the execution of those ideas are taken from completely different directions.In fact I'd argue that Sea of Thieves and Fortnite are very similar in many respects., with both relying on Player Skill and Experience to be Successful ... but also in regards to their reliance upon Randomisation Systems.
Where both games diverge, is that within Fortnite; when you're in a situation where you're at a disadvantage, there is typically something you can do in order to shift the balance back in your favour. Assuming you're skilled enough.
This said for the most part the Game is reasonably well balanced with constant tweaks to try to keep it that way, to prevent a "Blunderbuss" or "SAS-12" Scenario. Where one weapon is just objectively Better.
Along with Randomisation in Bullet Spread, just to ensure that Less Skilled Shooters actually have a chance against Skilled Shooters.And while there is an argument to be made that "This removes skill from the equation",. sure to a degree that's true; to where it's possible to have frustrating games where most of your shots missed while your opponents appear to have pinpoint accuracy... keep in mind this is specifically there so that the Less Skilled Players can also experience success.
This might sound somewhat "Counter" for a Skill-Based Game., but remember this is actually what Fortnite owes a lot of it's success to. As no one player Causal, Core or Hardcore ultimately feels like they're simply incapable of being Competitive...
Players (like your friend) have enough there to feel like Skill is a major component, where they can practise in Creative / Free Play / Hot-Drop Zones (with High Risk, but also High Reward; due to lots of players dropping there, but also the greatest concentration of loot) where they hone their skills and this often leads to rapid improvement to where they will ultimately "Win" on a very Consistent Basis.While Lower Skill Players avoid said Areas, usually content with a couple of Kills but will automatically result in placing much Higher as all of the High Skill Players essentially kill each other off within the first 5min of the 15-25min Matches... in both cases both types of Player (Competitive and Casual) will walk away after half a dozen games feeling good about their success.
The Competitive Players because they ended up playing 8-10 Matches, typically winning one of them... where-as the Casual Players because they placed Top 10-20 Consistently in each of the 3-4 Matches they had.In said regard, everyone "Wins" and ultimately feels good about their Play Sessions.
Further to said point are elements such-as the Weekly and Daily Challenges, which typically give players a Short-Term Goal to work towards during the Play Sessions.•
Now, is Sea of Thieves a 'less' Skill Focused Game? Well, yes... and no...
Mechanically the Combat and Sailing (in PVP terms) is very skill based., but I'd argue this is actually not to the benefit of Sea of Thieves.As has recently been categorically pointed out by Joe Neate' VIT Talk on the Game (and something I'd been saying since prior to launch), the key focus for Sea of Thieves is on a Casual / Core "Family Friendly" Experience... and this means such a focus on a Skill Based approach is actually detrimental to the potential enjoyment.
Why? Well, because Less Skilled (which Causal players, especially younger players such-as 8-12) or Less Competitive (which Core players, especially older players such-as 24+) tend to be... will simply find themselves in a situation where they are Grieved by the Skilled Players.
Sure, this might seem "Awesome" for the Skilled Players... it's no different to the Classic Smurfing that occurs within Competitive FPS, such-as Halo / Call of Duty / etc. where-in High Skill Players will create new Accounts in order to reset their TruSkill (used for Matchmaking) to play against Easily Beaten opponents as opposed to Equally Skilled Opponents.
If you were ever curious as to why Hack, Cheats, etc. are commonly used in said Games., well it's because so much focus is put on "Winning" (Winning Matches, High K:D, etc.) with the central 'entertainment' levied from said games entirely reliant upon such Success.
This is a terrible approach for game aimed at a more Casual Audience.
That Sea of Thieves falls into this trap is an excellent showcase as to how Rare (either their Mechanics and Design Team, or just as a whole) are simply far too immature in regards to Multiplayer Design.What the result of such is, essentially is a dwindling Player Base that swings far more heavily towards a Hardcore Player Base as a result.
This is why in other Multiplayer Games, there are typically specific Game Activities that better appeal to Hardcore Players... not just their Skill Level, but also in regards to their Personalities.It can often be something as simplistic as say a Competitive / Ladder Season, but in other cases it can be in the form of Brutal Difficulty Raids (which are then later re-released in easier versions for the Core / Casual Player Base when new Raids, with new "Must Have" Gear is made available).
As really Hardcore Players, just want something that they can brag about being able to do., so to claim that they are "Better" Players.
Eve Online is one of the few Games that doesn't do this., it's also one of the few games with truly player-driven / emergent gameplay. (Something that Rare again from said VIT Talk, wants to have within Sea of Thieves)
The thing is, that Eve Online does do something quite different from other games.That is, every single player exists and plays within the same universe.
The result of said Persistent and Concurrent Players., means that Low-Skill Players can "Ally" themselves into Groups to deal with High-Skill Players.
Now this isn't to say that I think Sea of Thieves should be more like Eve Online... as while it's an excellent case study in terms of Game Design, it's "Cut-Throat" and Cliff Shaped Difficulty Curve are somewhat Legendary; meaning it doesn't really work well as a Casual Friendly Game.So much of it relies on said brutality that regardless of what CCP do, there's no way they can actually change this. (Nor does it work to., as they have attempted to in the past; improve the "Appeal")
Still that doesn't mean there aren't lessons that Sea of Thieves couldn't take away from both Fortnite and Eve Online.
I'm not suggesting they Copy-Paste Game Mechanics., (seriously Rare... "The Arena" is NOT a Good Idea) rather to take on-board the general concepts, complaints, etc.Sea of Thieves as it stands has a serious issue with Random Number Generation reliance.
This affects almost everything in the game., and we're not talking about a particularly clever implementation of such that is well hidden to given the illusion of Random Nature...To give you an example of what I mean... let's take a Rank 30 Treasure Voyage:
This provides between 3-5 Maps., these can be either X Marks the Spot (1-4) or Riddle (1-3 Parts).Now the chances of which are Weighted Percentages., but keep in mind that so far we're looking at a Minimum of 3 Chests to a Maximum of 20 Chests.
These chests can be of Randomised Rarity., Common (150g) / Uncommon (250g) / Rare (500g) / Epic (1,200g) / Legendary (2,000g)
So between 450g to 40,000g as a reward... except Turn-In Value is between 50 - 100%.
i.e. 225G to 40,000g. While, sure; as I mentioned this is weighted, so you're more likely to get 20 Chests of Lower Value, or 3 Chests of Higher Value.With the concept being that you'll Avg. 3,000g Per Voyage; keep in mind that this isn't accounting for the TIME investment to Visit 3 Islands and Acquire 3 Chests Vs. 5 Islands to Acquire 4 Chests.
Plus, because this is purely random... it actually rarely works out to actually hitting the Avg.I might do an experiment running back-to-back voyages logging the stats of the Rewards Vs. Time (and I'll omit the ones where I'm being Harassed by Players., as that's just another layer that further reduces the Voyage Values, but is more Randomised).
Still, this is a major element for the Game., where sure; on-paper this all might seem balanced at first glance but in practise the result is there are so many different RNG Rolls occurring just for something as simple as a Standard Voyage; that you begin to see how this starts to be problematic to Risk Vs. Reward Vs. Time Investment, etc.
This is frustrating not just in regards to Balance, but also Player Decisions.
And this extends into Combat., as NPCs are "Unpredictable" due to similar focus on RNG Actions... except, here's the thing; their Actions are so limited, that they're not unpredictable.This was actually worse in the Beta as we didn't have the different Skeleton Types., but even then they don't really change how you attack them... instead it's more "What extra Step do I have to take to make them Vulnerable"., and the same is true when dealing with Skeletons with Guns.
It's insanely predicable how often they will Miss and Hit., and by law-of-averages when they're in a big enough group you have to essentially exploit their simplistic "Run Towards Enemy until Taken 75% Damage, then Maybe Trigger Run Away" ... by essentially corralling them to where they come round a corner individually.Sure, in the Open they're "Difficult" because get too far away, and they lose interest; meaning you have to get close enough to keep pulling them to where you need them to more safely deal with them., while you'll end up having them essentially guaranteed to kill you a few time before you do.
That's not really difficult., it just requires persistence... there's no skill involved... the illusion of difficult comes from the Braindead AI and RNG that's tweaked to essentially be unfair to the Player., especially if you're Solo.It's elements like this that not only are BAD for Casual / Core Players., who aren't really going to be Bunny Hopping while 360 No-Scoping and Speed Running Islands / Forts / etc. akin to old Arcade Games; that just required learning the Patterns and Countless Continues until everything becomes Muscle Memory to "Win"... Vs. actually having to tactically think about the Situation.
I mean Powder Keg Skeletons did add such,. but I really don't think that was intentional; but rather a happy coincidence; and given they keep tweaking them to spawn behind you more often... not something that Rare seem to be set on maintaining as a legitimate tactic.
And that's not the only unintentional improvement that Rare has quietly patched out, because we weren't playing the game how they've designed it.
This lessened the "Creative" Solutions, that less skilled players come up with in order to be Successful.Something that Rare should be embracing.
Sea of Thieves is in a weird place where, sure the Core Mechanics (i.e. Player Vs. Player) the game is entirely Skill Based... which is much to the Detriment of the Game., as this encourages quite predatory behaviour by more Skilled Players; with no mechanics that somewhat punish or make the game more difficult the more engagement in such activities you do.As the same time, the rest of the Game is so reliant on Luck-Based Success that it's dissatisfying and disheartening to the Casual and Core Audience.
All that effort and time... only to be given a Participation Reward with barely any Reputation; with new Cosmetics, Ranks, etc. constantly feeling like a Life-Long Grind to get anywhere.There's no real constant or small goal feedback that keeps you interested and invested.
Beating the World Bosses / Raids doesn't feel like an Achievement of Skill / Intelligence but instead was just a brutal slog testing your patience to keep going.And sure people can say "Oh but the Fleets only actually take 15-25min"... sure but it FEELS like 60-90min. Everything is just a battle of attrition, persistence or sheer bloody mindedness... all for what feels like an anomic reward., and very little Skill involved.
Minus the obvious disadvantages of crossplay, I don’t think there’s much of a skill gap. I would say it’s reliant on game sense.
But i don’t believe the games dead either, it still has a way to go but it’s defo getting there. I think the biggest thing they should work in is actually making it fair between platforms, especially with the upcoming arena.
@leyvin very interesting, I read your whole post and I feel smarter than I did before I read it lol those blasted Cursed Cannonballs are way too "RNG" as well, they should almost be treated as a reward so the number you have is controlled by how much you accomplish in a server, for example completing forts or defeating skeleton ships.
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