@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@holyskin I had ignored this thread so never even saw your answers. Sad thing to see you call me an ignorant trying to invalidate anything I've said as you admit you didn't even get what I was saying. All I've spoke of comes from experience and facts my friend. Let me make my pov very clear for you since you're having trouble,
I have only invalidated your attempt at justifying how a controller is better than a keyboard and mouse, refer back to the post previously. eg. you stating that is a controller user can pick when/where to fight he can have an advantage... You my friend, ARE being ignorant when you justify that a controller as being equal to a KBM setup.
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@holyskin It is obvious that overall there is still an advantage towards PC but it isn't big when you consider the overall gameplay/design - that was the key point you seemed to miss. If you're trying to play like an overly aggressive pc player archetype then indeed you are bound to find some problems.
Now you agree that there is an advantage, this has been my claim the whole time. Additionally i did not miss nay key point, the control advantage is AMPLIFIED in favour of the KBM input BECAUSE of the game design, the fact that its slower to 'balance' things out just adds more of a handicap against the controller user (aim speed, precision, hip sensitivity etc).
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@holyskin Another thing I said was that I am not against turning off cross-play. Just that given everything that has been told to us, it doesn't seem like a realistic expectation. Specially at launch. We'll see though.
I'm with you on this one good buddy, My hope is that it will happen though, butI feel it wont as alot of gamers seem to be complacent.
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@holyskin And yes, controller is better to control movement. I don't have the time to see that particular video but have seen many of solo players using controller taking out a fort with 0 deaths. Did they miss 2 or 3 shots a good mouse user wouldn't miss? Yes. But did they show far superior movement control that gave them almost always a better positioning and ability to evade damage? Also yes.
Controllers are only better if you want to move slowly since they have pressure sensitivity, we discussed this before. I don't see how this could even be an advantage in this game anyway. I have taken out a fort with my crew on controllers, in the current BETA they were not too difficult for 4 of us, that said I know I personally could have done better on a pc, and since i HAVE played on both to compare i feel qualified to say that movement combined with strafing on keys and fast mouse movements out performs a controller easily, forts became a joke on pc, NOW i will agree that controllers feel way more comfortable but that does not equal superior movement, its casual and you dont fatigue with hand c***s, that is all. now i need you to PROVE to me how controller can (and i quote you here) "Yes. But did they show far superior movement control that gave them almost always a better positioning and ability to evade damage? Also yes." Please show me.. I posted 2 videos that show the exact opposite of what you're saying. On the PC when the layer took damage, its just a case of a quick flick of the wrist, 180o turn and a back step - done! On a controller you have a turn speed cap so there is a limit to how fast you can turn in the exact same scenario - in either case we are clutching at straws because my argument is about aimig not moving, either way; with a combination of both, a pc KBM player still holds the advantages, just watch the videos and honestly tell me your controller guy was more responsive, fast, manoeuvred better to negate damage.
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@holyskin There's nothing spectacular about my claims, the fact that you think that shows me you should be in fact using mouse and keyboard since you don't seem very good at it with the controller. Aim assist doesn't exist on rainbow six btw and even though I suggested having an aim assist when using controller to close the little gap there is. After many hours of play without it I probably wouldn't use it as it throws me off. I do recognise (as I did before, above) that without a kontrolfreek I would not be able to have such level of control where I can compete with a great mouse user (try Rainbow on high gold even and you might get an idea of what I mean). Those players are rare though and no matter how much you try to avoid the rest of the gameplay and game design, the fact stands that it does clearly help even things out. Or I wouldn't win almost every fight.
I broadly claimed that all shooters have aim assist, granted R6 does not, at least in the multipayer. The fact that "aim assist" exists and is an almost 100% industry standard thing in shooting games tells you why its needed on a controller - because it's inferior. I am terrible on a controller, I can hold my own, but when i do die to gun fight I look back and know I could have handled it better on a mouse, yes part of that is subjective because what works for me doesn't work for others. What I'm saying is (and... regardless of the game) if you get 4 guys at the top of their game onpc to vs 4 guys at the top of their game on xbox, and im talking the very very few top % of world ranking players - the pc guys come out on top.
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@holyskin You might be right about sensitivity issues, wouldn't really know as I use a ds4 and a program that has it's own sensitivity sliders. That said i don't really see why this game would need a Cod style of sensitivity. Don't remember having any situation where I need to do more than 180 and those were already far. But AGAIN, to make it clear, I do not know how bad it might be.
I agree with you completely, this game doesn't need a COD style sensitivity but pc users damn near have it, thats what I'm saying (again watch that video i sent and you will see what i mean). It's bad good buddy. The only saving grace is that right now sword play has a weird-a*s lock on effect so it does stop pc guys from strafing around you and doing a fast 180 turn to hit you in the back, BUT thats happened in a close range gun fight. Ive gone in with a swing only to have the enemy jump to the side, spin a quick 180 and shoot me before my damn controller would let me turn to face them because of the speed capon a controller. (this is a twitchy style piece of game play that cant be countered on a controller - agreed, however, its situational at best, but it happens.
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@holyskin In terms of controlling how you play I honestly don't get how you don't understand... Maybe because you are trying to be an aggressive twitchy gamer as if on pc? Anyway, tell me, do you play a shotgun and sniper the same way?
Show me some tactics of how a controller user can manoeuvre to outplay a kbm user, infact if it works vs them it'll work vs controller users even better, what magic tactic have you discovered?
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@holyskin To conclude, this game isn't comparable in terms of shooting mechanics to a call of duty let alone a Rainbow Six, not even close. Slow ads, no hit-scan or crossairs, low damage weapons that are heavily dependent on aiming and no headshot bonus damage. And shooting is about 40% of combat and not the most important. That's why I'm saying the gap isn't big at all.
I'm not suggesting the mechanics are alike. what IS alike is the mouse hip speed (and i assume you don't know - but hip speed accurate is near 100% accurate, it needs a nerf). The devs did slow down sniping ads but as mentioned before this is easiy overcome with a mouse with a DPI setting slider (i use a logitec G02n12,000 DPI as an example). The physics of shots, whether there is ballistics drops, head shot multiplyers, hit scan, ot tag sounds is irrelevant to what im trying to explain. The gap is HUGE when comparing the hard coded speedcap of a controller vs an agile and dexterous aiming device like a mouse. Yes, the devs have tried to even this out by wing down ADS in sniping and people have complained about that. but their attempt to close that gap actually widens it because the mouse is still very fast in comparison to the slowed down controller speeds, player movement speeds, slow reoads etc, .
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@holyskin I'd rather have the game fully balanced and not devise the community but if whatever requirements are needed are met than I wouldn't have much problem separating us. I do think (yes, if possible) that a division based on peripherals rather than platform makes more sense as there are many many pc players that say this game is a much better experience overall with a controller. Which goes to show you how much the mouse's advantage actually matter to the overall gameplay and I agree with them (obviously).
Again i agree with you here 100% regarding the fairness of peripheral usage, controller is defiantly a more 'relaxed'experience, its comfortable, a controller is more ergonomic in your had than deforming your left hand over an arrangement of keys lol. ALl that aside though, the mouses advantage is by far a game changer in terms of fairness, other pc gamers have simply said its funny or unfair, even they agree.
@deashkiin said in [Mega Thread] - Play Anywhere, Cross Play and Balancing. (Part 2):
@holyskin I'm going to ignore the fact you said some of my points were ridiculous and then use switching to a controller as a defence for why mouse and keyboard is better... Ironic
I'm sorry that you feel that way, the point here is that a pc user can use BOTH control options on the fly. If said pc user feels that shootings cannons is easier o the controller then he/she switches... uh-oh , your boats getting boarded? go back to KBM and have fun shooting slow fat targets with near no skill involved. I was only exemplifying how the pc user still has the advantage.
No hard feelings,nthin' but love!