Immersion issues

  • If there's one rule I hold sacred in video games, its this;
    The only type of immersion is 100% immersion. Now with that in mind here are somethings I think damage the game immersion. Do consider that something does not have to damage immersion because it is unusal. It is specific only things that remind you its a game that damage immersion.

    Gamer tags. Better systems for these are out there e.g talk to reveal, or crouch to hide.
    Ships despawning. Nothing in the game so far is more disruptive of immersion that sunk ships dissapearing without a trace. They needto full sink first.
    Water gliding. Using the sword charge attack and gliding through the water just feels too silly.
    Scutling ships. Scuttling is in the game only as an anti griefing tool as far as I can tell. "The game could be deisgned in a way that worked without it." - consider this when suggesting its also for unjamming ships.
    Lack of camera sway. When at sea, especially in a storm, the camera is fixed solid to the boat. This makes the character feel very stiff and unnatural.

    Do people think we'll see many of these removed?

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  • I think the only one that we may see worked on is the Gamer Tag issue. And possibly having the ships fully sink before they disappear. I don't think they'll remove the water glide mechanic, since that was put in there intentionally. Since scuttling ships really is the only anti-griefing measure we can take, they'll probably leave that in place until a decent and tested system is put in place. But who knows, they'll tell us when/if they're going to mess with stuff like that I think.

  • I got my ship stuck on a dock by precisely sliding the bow sprit in between two posts on the dock. My ship was positioned in a way that it could not back out of the dock or become unstuck in any way.

    I was forced to scuttle. Not used for "anti-griefing"

  • @d-muhny Well anit-griefing isn't the ONLY reason to scuttle. I had to do it for the exact same reason you did lol... Got me ship stuck, SUPER stuck, on a dock and had no choice.

  • Gamer tags, totally, I hate them, at least over enemies. They need to get rid of them.

    Ships, too, I guess it's for performance issues, but then it needs some kind of believable effect, like all the hull wrecking in lot of planks at certain, reasonable depth. Now is: PUFFF, the thing dissapeared, it's a immersion killer after the spectacular, cinematic sinking.

  • @inbred-chimera
    I'm on board for that, but I think it should be apart of a hardcore server mode.

  • Immersion difficulty in a game where you can fire yourself out of cannons a great distance with no ill effects and do battle with the living dead?

  • I am pretty sure ship sinking will be improved in the final game. Also, there is no wake behind the boat or anchor is invisible. I am pretty sure these things will be there.

    Don't care much for the Gamertags. Unless trying to sneak on a enemy boat and worried ppl will see it.

  • @blam320 It's still a game, but having more difficulty as an option would be nice. I for one would have no cannon men if they had the option for it. But I'm all for it as apart of the core base game mode just not a hardcore mode.

  • @blam320 immersion is not simulation. They are different.

  • I'm not sure how having big white names that flash in and out of existence are more immersive than ones that don't.

    Everyone is different, but for me anyway, I think it would just make me notice them more.

  • @fonzaye said in Immersion issues:

    @blam320 It's still a game, but having more difficulty as an option would be nice. I for one would have no cannon men if they had the option for it. But I'm all for it as apart of the core base game mode just not a hardcore mode.

    Except there isn't supposed to be a hardcore mode. Implementing different difficulty levels or areas that are harder than others would fragment the playerbase.

  • You have immersion problem in a game where people get fired from cannons while looking like bad cartoons eating whole skin on bananas while killing skeletons?
    Not to mention sea monsters....i gave up on immersion when i chose to buy the game lol.

  • Hum underwater shooting it's something so UNREAL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzm_yyl13yo

  • Again, immersion and realism are not the same.

    It's impossible to perform sneaky moves with the usual crutch of enemy tags, casual feature of the worst kind.

  • @blam320
    Sometimes giving players what they want is better then keeping them all together and having them complain.
    I'd say there would be more then 6 ships worth of people that would like to player both mode types anyways so It will still fill full.

  • I hope we don't see any of these changes as none are needed.

  • @moe-furbino Think about the gun's we are using in game and the gun in this video... I'm sure a flintlock gun would not work underwater. So for argument stakes yes very unreal.

  • @hammy-hamstar I hope we do see the changes... but as an option to play with other people that want those same settings.

    Try and not talk for everyone else when the game has a great chance of being a big success and could cater for two game modes later on.

  • @fonzaye said in Immersion issues:

    @blam320
    Sometimes giving players what they want is better then keeping them all together and having them complain.
    I'd say there would be more then 6 ships worth of people that would like to player both mode types anyways so It will still fill full.

    That's a max of 24 out of potentially thousands. I hardly think that it's worth adding if that few people are going to play.

  • To fix the ship disappearing when sinking, they could do the same teal fade away effect as when you kill a player. Only when it's deep underwater.

  • @blam320 As I said.... I'm sure that there is more then that...

    You like the game as is... I'm happy for you... I like the game as is but know that it could be better for me with more setting changes. I'm not pushing my play style upon you so why fight my view?
    The game is going to have thousands of players and many players would like the option to play both game styles if they so choose. I know from the 100 plus games that I've played that SOT as it is will but fun and keep me playing for time to time... but I will get bored of the same core game mechanics and via adding in a more difficult game mode it would keep me happier for longer.

  • I like the gamer tag fix. It’s really hard to sneak onto ships when they see your name from forever away

  • @inbred-chimera

    Immersion indeed !

    Gamer tags: yes this is problematic. Shouldn't it be related to line of sight ? I mean if you can't see a player, why should you be able to see its her/his gamertag? Example, I'm in murky waters, 5 meters below the surface, players on a ship's deck above can see my gamertag...or... I am behind a small rock and my head is hidden, but my gamertag 'sticks out'...

    Water gliding: very touchy matter. I love the feat, the glitch if you prefer, but it does go a fair way indeed, that's still ok with me. What is less ok is how from up high one can use the lunge's momentum combined with a dive to jum off a cliff 50 meters away from a ship and be on board in no time. That could be a bit unfair during ambush attacks, it still love it nonetheless, but I would understand if others do not.

    The rest does not seem as problematic to me so I'll pass^^

  • @fonzaye said in Immersion issues:

    @blam320 As I said.... I'm sure that there is more then that...

    You like the game as is... I'm happy for you... I like the game as is but know that it could be better for me with more setting changes. I'm not pushing my play style upon you so why fight my view?
    The game is going to have thousands of players and many players would like the option to play both game styles if they so choose. I know from the 100 plus games that I've played that SOT as it is will but fun and keep me playing for time to time... but I will get bored of the same core game mechanics and via adding in a more difficult game mode it would keep me happier for longer.

    This isn't a linear single-player game with variable difficulty levels. The only multiplayer games that I know of with variable difficulties are MMOs, where enemies get harder as you level up and progress vertically.

    This game was designed specifically with horizontal progression in mind. You'll be fighting the exact same NPC enemies as everyone else. The difference will be how efficient you are at doing it. If you want a challenge, try going after a fully-crewed Galleon in a Sloop.

    The Beta didn't even have all of the NPC enemies unlocked; just skeletons and sharks. The full release will have the Kraken on launch, plus hostile mermaids, and who knows what further down the line.

  • @inbred-chimera said in Immersion issues:

    Gamer tags. Better systems for these are out there e.g talk to reveal, or crouch to hide.

    Notebook that allows you to see their titles and their pre-defined, title-specific, crew member-quantity influenced nicknames in a ghostly weaving manner; plus illuminate their tattoos in ghostly green smokey light to sense where they are except behind obstacles. No need for gamertags at all. As long as you can separate your comrades, everything is cool. Lantern works fine too whether it was the friends or foes with one.

    Ships despawning. Nothing in the game so far is more disruptive of immersion that sunk ships dissapearing without a trace. They needto full sink first.

    The current below sea level could gradually rip the ships apart.

    Water gliding. Using the sword charge attack and gliding through the water just feels too silly.

    So it does. It would be more believable if it was just an ordinary dash.

    Scutling ships. Scuttling is in the game only as an anti griefing tool as far as I can tell. "The game could be deisgned in a way that worked without it." - consider this when suggesting its also for unjamming ships.

    I had wondered what it was. Thanks for the info.

    Lack of camera sway. When at sea, especially in a storm, the camera is fixed solid to the boat. This makes the character feel very stiff and unnatural.

    Can you elaborate a bit more here?

    Do people think we'll see many of these removed?

    You mean corrected? Hopefully because full immersion is a must in games that utilise tactical responses and cosmetic rewards.

  • @blam320 We are not on the same page here.

    The NPC isn't the issue... It's the game mechanics that hold your hand like the Mermaid spawning you back on your ship if you fall off... While yes it has place in the game I don't want it coming free without a cost at lease! The ship moving into head wind is a little bit of issue, the sword lunge and the shooting one's self out of the cannons are fun but not in line with my style of game.

    Now I'm not saying that all those mechanics are not fun or bad for people, I'm playing the game and can live with that... But If they gave the option for me to turn off all the stilly hand holding mechanics I know I would play that more and love it.

    Really I'm not fighting to change the game that so many like (me included) ... I'm just asking that they think about another group of gamers that like a game that doesn't hold their hands and makes things a little closer to RL choices.

  • I dont think gamer tags are going anywhere.
    As many people who come here and are upset that the same person killed them twice the name tags may be there to let someone know " oh i just killed this guy 3 minutes ago and no need to do it again".

  • @fonzaye said in Immersion issues:

    @blam320 We are not on the same page here.

    The NPC isn't the issue... It's the game mechanics that hold your hand like the Mermaid spawning you back on your ship if you fall off... While yes it has place in the game I don't want it coming free without a cost at lease! The ship moving into head wind is a little bit of issue, the sword lunge and the shooting one's self out of the cannons are fun but not in line with my style of game.

    Now I'm not saying that all those mechanics are not fun or bad for people, I'm playing the game and can live with that... But If they gave the option for me to turn off all the stilly hand holding mechanics I know I would play that more and love it.

    Really I'm not fighting to change the game that so many like (me included) ... I'm just asking that they think about another group of gamers that like a game that doesn't hold their hands and makes things a little closer to RL choices.

    What else are you supposed to do? Let yourself drown, go to the Ferry of the Damned and wait to respawn? Hope your crewmates will club-haul and come back for you? Hope some other ship picks you up before you're eaten by sharks?

    Because the RL decision, if we were all pirates, would be to abandon the crewmate and keep going. Especially if we had a hold full of gold.

  • @fonzaye dijo en Immersion issues:

    @blam320 We are not on the same page here.

    The NPC isn't the issue... It's the game mechanics that hold your hand like the Mermaid spawning you back on your ship if you fall off... While yes it has place in the game I don't want it coming free without a cost at lease! The ship moving into head wind is a little bit of issue, the sword lunge and the shooting one's self out of the cannons are fun but not in line with my style of game.

    Now I'm not saying that all those mechanics are not fun or bad for people, I'm playing the game and can live with that... But If they gave the option for me to turn off all the stilly hand holding mechanics I know I would play that more and love it.

    Really I'm not fighting to change the game that so many like (me included) ... I'm just asking that they think about another group of gamers that like a game that doesn't hold their hands and makes things a little closer to RL choices.

    This game is 100% arcade, the design is clearly not a simulation, it doesnt' lie. Sword lunge is obviously a placeholder of grappling hooks mechanics and other boarding devices. HUman Cannonballs is clearly a slapstick mechanic, hilariously fun and fit into the arcade mood of the game, like mermaids, a good workaround.

    Those are not hand holding mechanics, are working as intended into the vision of the devs about the game.

    If this were a simulation game I could buy your affirmation, not here.

  • While it is supposed to be immersive some what its also supposed to be light hearted a little I the ship this they should do but the sword and cannon thing just help player traverse a little more and makes travel more interesting

  • @inbred-chimera said in Immersion issues:

    If there's one rule I hold sacred in video games, its this;
    The only type of immersion is 100% immersion. Now with that in mind here are somethings I think damage the game immersion. Do consider that something does not have to damage immersion because it is unusal. It is specific only things that remind you its a game that damage immersion.

    While i do agree that some types of games should try to be immersive as possible I have to disagree with your 100 percent rule. No game can, nor should ever be 100 percent immersive both from a technical and philosophical standpoint. As the point of the game should be fun and so the immersion is only good so long as it adds to the fun IMO. So with that i will go thru each of your points and why i think they should or should not be removed from the game.

    Gamer tags. Better systems for these are out there e.g talk to reveal, or crouch to hide.

    I do agree that the gamertag system could be improved upon simply hiding them or allowing player to hid them could cause serious issues one obvious one is with increase anonyminity comes with a greater incentive to trool as they would be hard to report on. Your ideas are interesting but i think they would cause more issues as it would impact on the social side of the game thus decreasing the fun. I would not oppose testing this thou.

    Ships despawning. Nothing in the game so far is more disruptive of immersion that sunk ships dissapearing without a trace. They needto full sink first.

    This would be nice but we wont see this do it being to technically difficult to pull off as the has to clear space in memory for the best performance so and i rather have a smooth game experience at the cost of a little visual distraction as i feel it more jarring to have choppy gamplay. If they can optimise the game better i be all for that and i like the idea of adding an effect but dead ships should stay priority when clearing map element as they are resource heavy.

    Water gliding. Using the sword charge attack and gliding through the water just feels too silly.

    They should totally keep this. I don't know if this is a bug or a feature but it is hella Fun to do and adds some depth to the game mechincs opening up interesting options. Because Rare like things that are fun im sure it's not going anywhere.

    Scutling ships. Scuttling is in the game only as an anti griefing tool as far as I can tell. "The game could be deisgned in a way that worked without it." - consider this when suggesting its also for unjamming ships.

    This will definitely not be going away cause not only is it used as anti-griefing tool and a way to unjam a ship it also is apart of the game balance. As it prevents people from perminatly comindering a whole ship. Removing this option would let to an entire shift in the META. Cause why would you board a ship to steal a single piece of treasure when you could just take the whole ship. So not going to happen unless a better simple solution is proposed.

    Lack of camera sway. When at sea, especially in a storm, the camera is fixed solid to the boat. This makes the character feel very stiff and unnatural.

    I could be wrong but i belive the camera is this way to reduce motion sickness. They gamers who cant play this game for this reason and i would be in favor for simple measure to help these people to play. Maybe they could add the option for us to turn on motion sway but because this game is heavly streamed it should be locked by defualt as it would discourage viewers that are sensitive.

  • I agree with the gamertag. There should be an option to turn gamertags off. Even with no HUD, it breaks immersion to see a gamertag on top of someone. Imagine the possibilities!

    I think camera sway at sea is fine and shouldn't be increased. I would like a little sway on land though, especially when you're running.

    Ship despawning, agreed. Water gliding, not sure as the sword lunge thing is an integral part of the game at this point. Scuttling, disagreed unless you have a better alternative for people.

  • @inbred-chimera My suggestion for gamertags popping up is to implement an auto nameplate pop up based on how long you look at the person and the distance.
    Aim/look directly at them for X seconds within Y distance. The closer the distance, the nametag should pop up sooner or stay up. The name tag should stay up as long as the person is within a certain distance, as it would be annoying for names to disappear too much in short distance.

  • @blam320 You sir would be a terrible crew member, good thing I play with friends and other random crews that do turn around for a friend if not under attack.

    And yes when we did lose our ship my friend and I didn't take our mermen back. We swam from island to island fighting sharks and looking to wave down a crew on the open seas.
    He ended up dying to a shark and came out on mission to find me while I stayed on a small island fighting the undead.
    It was a brilliant time and it added that little bit more to the game that made it a random fun adventure and I'd like that and other options to be an option.

    So if you don't like the idea then don't play the idea and that's whats great about having choices.

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