Balancing Emissaries

  • @treefittymonsta said in Balancing Emissaries:

    @musicmee said in Balancing Emissaries:

    @dutchdeadschot I see the point, however...

    A benefit for solo sloopers here is that ships will make Reapers Bones Grave V much slower than they did previously, meaning you can go about your business should you wish!

    there is no point in pursuing grade v as a reaper. by the time u acquire it. the server is vacant and you have to hop servers and start to grind back to grade v

    if u want to PvP, u can't Dawn the reapers bones status IMHO. because everyone clears out of the server in my experience.

    Will make server merging an exciting thing. The unlikely negative of this however is the likelihood of players harassing that last ship in hopes of causing them to quit increases

  • @bigtorvol said in Balancing Emissaries:

    I think a lot of these balance changes are much needed but I think your timing here for some of it may really annoy some players genuinely trying to legit get on the leader board.

    The leader board still has 30 odd, days left on it. These changes will now make it impossible for anyone to contest the players who have amassed millions within that short period.

    While I think these changes are much needed, it also does throw a wrench into the works of the leader board this month and now you have given those players who cheesed the system protection from anyone being able to overtake them.

    I think since the leaderboard still has 30+ days left on it, it should be wiped and let it start again with these updates.

    Just my 2 cents. I appreciate the updates, and I am glad to see them.

    No it doesn't. Ledger value is based on gold value. Example: You sell a skull for 1000 gold, it will give you 3000 ledger value. Has nothing todo with rep ;)

    @bobbcane said in Balancing Emissaries:

    @phelim-mcnab I would have been ok with 10k. I would have accepted 7.5k too, but 5k? Now we have to grind harder to get to Grade V for less than before. I'm happy that Grade V flags can't be chained anymore, and that rep is being balanced, but it's heartbreaking to see once again that something that was not the issue at all was "fixed" for reasons unknown.

    @sonicsonic3 said in Balancing Emissaries:

    @xghostadmiralx It's 5k gold.

    @bobbcane said in Balancing Emissaries:

    Only 5k from lowering Grade V flag? I can't believe this. This update was looking so good.
    This is why we can't have nice things.

    It had to be done. It was such a stupid loop that people were using. Raise reapers bones flag, do a fort, get grade v with fort loot, sell everything, lower flag and Repeat.

  • @marc4815 oh ok

  • @mentimjojo Thats all fine and well, but I guess the question was...why was this changed now. Either you wait until the next month to patch it, or you do the work before you release it so this situation doesn't happen in the first place. Rare knows how people play, so how was this not predicted in the first place with the whole feedback loop of grinding. Or did that just not happen on Insiders at all.

  • This doesn’t seem right. The people that were abusing this system are already maxed out. This is gonna be a huge nerf for everyone that plays casually. Also reapers need more rep than 1/4th of the previous amount. I’ve cleared out multiple servers taking every ships flag and after doing that for 2-3 hours servers are empty. What are we supposed to do then? Server hop and find more boats? This is also gonna make it so much harder to find boats above grade 3. I think you’re making a mistake bringing in such a big nerf.

  • @r0b0tears said in Balancing Emissaries:

    @mentimjojo Thats all fine and well, but I guess the question was...why was this changed now. Either you wait until the next month to patch it, or you do the work before you release it so this situation doesn't happen in the first place. Rare knows how people play, so how was this not predicted in the first place with the whole feedback loop of grinding. Or did that just not happen on Insiders at all.

    Can't talk about insiders to much, but no this didn't happen in insiders, mostly because 95% of the insiders are there for the rewards and dont actually play test :(

  • @mentimjojo I know we all cant talk about what happens in Insiders, but I can certainly mention that it exists and that this patch naturally had to be a part of it due to the progression of testing. Yeah it is odd to me that Insider subscribers are there for rewards rather than to test things, haha.

  • @theeggoplant I kinda wish they had set us all back to 25 or something.

  • @theeggoplant said in Balancing Emissaries:

    This doesn’t seem right. The people that were abusing this system are already maxed out. This is gonna be a huge nerf for everyone that plays casually. Also reapers need more rep than 1/4th of the previous amount. I’ve cleared out multiple servers taking every ships flag and after doing that for 2-3 hours servers are empty. What are we supposed to do then? Server hop and find more boats? This is also gonna make it so much harder to find boats above grade 3. I think you’re making a mistake bringing in such a big nerf.

    Getting grade V is still very easy, 1 fort + AI ship. The big nerf is the rep you get with selling items / leveling reapers. It had to be done. Not only since you can sell every item in the game there besides fish but also since it was way to high.

    @r0b0tears said in Balancing Emissaries:

    @mentimjojo I know we all cant talk about what happens in Insiders, but I can certainly mention that it exists and that this patch naturally had to be a part of it due to the progression of testing. Yeah it is odd to me that Insider subscribers are there for rewards rather than to test things, haha.

    Yeah, I believe the current insider system needs a big overhaul.

  • I feel a quarter is way to much and getting it down to maybe 50% or 75% would be better for people and much more positive results...

    With the other GH, OOS, MA, AF I feel keep the first four as is that works well with the multiply working great and for AF only had the gilded only be able to be completed under a grade 5, if u lower it goes away

  • @mentimjojo said in Balancing Emissaries:

    @theeggoplant said in Balancing Emissaries:

    This doesn’t seem right. The people that were abusing this system are already maxed out. This is gonna be a huge nerf for everyone that plays casually. Also reapers need more rep than 1/4th of the previous amount. I’ve cleared out multiple servers taking every ships flag and after doing that for 2-3 hours servers are empty. What are we supposed to do then? Server hop and find more boats? This is also gonna make it so much harder to find boats above grade 3. I think you’re making a mistake bringing in such a big nerf.

    Getting grade V is still very easy, 1 fort + AI ship. The big nerf is the rep you get with selling items / leveling reapers. It had to be done. Not only since you can sell every item in the game there besides fish but also since it was way to high.

    @r0b0tears said in Balancing Emissaries:

    @mentimjojo I know we all cant talk about what happens in Insiders, but I can certainly mention that it exists and that this patch naturally had to be a part of it due to the progression of testing. Yeah it is odd to me that Insider subscribers are there for rewards rather than to test things, haha.

    Yeah, I believe the current insider system needs a big overhaul.

    I dunno, I guess. Maybe the people getting paid to test the game, and design it, should make better progression models.

    The looping grade 5s is one thing. But Reapers Bones progression was embarrassingly easy.

  • In addition to my previous post on page 2, I just have a question regarding the ledger :

    If I level up to get the last rank (and in 30 days get the "best sails" you could get in, let's say GH), between today and 30 days, if players get more points than me and I get down in the ledger, do I still get the reward for the "best" rank I achieved ? or the reward for the rank I am at the end of the 30 days ?

  • Really? You have made costs rebalance but did nothing about Groomedbeard?
    You only care about making people grind but don't bother about allowing them to join your game? I already noticed you don't care about bugs, but that particular update makes me feel like you really don't give a damn about players.

  • @xray-i-iluziaa said in Balancing Emissaries:

    In addition to my previous post on page 2, I just have a question regarding the ledger :

    If I level up to get the last rank (and in 30 days get the "best sails" you could get in, let's say GH), between today and 30 days, if players get more points than me and I get down in the ledger, do I still get the reward for the "best" rank I achieved ? or the reward for the rank I am at the end of the 30 days ?

    You get the reward for the rank you are at the end of the month. So you need to be the highest tier to get the best sail. But remember, ledger value hasn't been nerfed. Ledger value was based on gold*3, they only wanted people to level slower. Which is a good thing.

    @danileros said in Balancing Emissaries:

    Really? You have made costs rebalance but did nothing about Groomedbeard?
    You only care about making people grind but don't bother about allowing them to join your game? I already noticed you don't care about bugs, but that particular update makes me feel like you really don't give a damn about players.

    Read the patch notes my friend, they fixed join/rejoin bugs this patch and some other stuff.

  • @mentimjojo a dit dans Balancing Emissaries :

    @xray-i-iluziaa said in Balancing Emissaries:

    In addition to my previous post on page 2, I just have a question regarding the ledger :

    If I level up to get the last rank (and in 30 days get the "best sails" you could get in, let's say GH), between today and 30 days, if players get more points than me and I get down in the ledger, do I still get the reward for the "best" rank I achieved ? or the reward for the rank I am at the end of the 30 days ?

    You get the reward for the rank you are at the end of the month. So you need to be the highest tier to get the best sail. But remember, ledger value hasn't been nerfed. Ledger value was based on gold*3, they only wanted people to level slower. Which is a good thing.

    Allright, thank you for the info !

  • I think you are mistaking hardcore players for the average player base when it came to most of these balancing tweaks. I personally have not seen any leveling issues when it came to average casual play. The most I thought this was going to do was eliminate the need for the Arena and so far that hasn't happened on the regular. The most glaring issue for me is the fact that if I sink a ship that has taken my flag and I get it back by retribution there is no way for me to reattach it since selling it only gives 1 gold. At a minimum I should be able to return it to my Emissary for a partial rep and gold credit if I cannot reattach it.

  • @mentimjojo

    Known Issues
    Joining a Session: Players Receiving Groomedbeard – Some players may find that upon attempting to join a session either via session rejoin, an invite or joining in progress, they receive a Groomedbeard error and are unable to join.
    

    Yeah, I've read that.

  • I love how people are pointing fingers and crying foul by calling the games very own systems, exploits and abuse. It was all fair game and as intended by the devs for a week, until they changed it today, nothing was an exploit and was all ingame as tested until we rare admired that they miscalculated the balance.

    You get rep for taking down your flag, no one once thought “that’s an exploit” ever. I remember thinking wow they really want everyone to be PL with the crazy rep they give. That’s not on players to realise they made a mistake, until Rare said different it was all intended.

  • Also, increasing the sail time for a grade 5 voyage just seems like not a great idea sailing is nice but I don’t want them to increase sailing time just to make my voyage longer.

  • I take it fort loot (stronghold chest, bone dust, etc) is just considered standard loot to the reapers now?

  • @MikeTheMutinous this still sounds very exploitable, getting to grade 5 and then claiming the voyage you are still able to stack just run Athena voyages to get grade 5. eventually you will have enough in the wheel to not worry about running another Athena to help get grade 5 again. Why instead of removing the bush you just trimmed it. You guys could have made the voyage not stack and disappear if you grabbed another forcing you only to have one after you reach level 5, or even instead of it not counting as a bottle quest make it so it has to go on the quest table. So many other routes could have been done to completely fix the issue but, the problem is still there.

  • After reading some of the comments,
    Without quoting any specific one, this is my point of view after playing this game starting way back in alpha (beta).

    This update, or fix, is unbalanced on its own.
    Hardcore players already grinded this update to the bone, and for them it doesn't matter things changed, cause they are already max level on all the factions.
    Casual players, sorry, you will have to sink even more time in now to get there, oh right... You don't have that much time, to bad!
    This is the way this "update" feels for me, to clarify I'm a casual myself (wishing to be hardcore).

    I get that there need to be changes because Reapers Bones faction, seriously was way to unbalanced!
    The "loopholes" for the gilded voyages? Why remove them?
    This was the only way a casual player actually got some sort of advantage out of it.

    I love this game a lot, but it is in changes like this that I can understand why some players ask for PVE servers...

    Yes it is fun and challenging to get into a world where everything you see could be a potential threat...
    Yes it totally ruins your evening if you are solo or even duo slooping and some "PVP"ers come round sinking you because you are not so good at PVP as they are.
    Most of the time, these "Nice" players are in a Brigantine, carrying the right amount of salt needed to throw in the wounds they already made.
    I know people personally who quit Sea of Thieves because they were casual and got sunk on all their voyages the first week and never got to cash anything in.
    Because PVP...

    Especially this Emissary system is what changes things a lot when it comes to casual VS hardcore VS PVP VS PVE content.
    Hardcore PVP players are ALWAYS going to dominate the casual PVE players, and that fact is sad!
    This update with the Reapers Bones "Radar" ability made it even worse.

    We will see what the future holds for casual players, but at this moment I think casual players are not being recognized as part of the playerbase...

  • @r0b0tears said in Balancing Emissaries:

    @mentimjojo Thats all fine and well, but I guess the question was...why was this changed now. Either you wait until the next month to patch it, or you do the work before you release it so this situation doesn't happen in the first place. Rare knows how people play, so how was this not predicted in the first place with the whole feedback loop of grinding. Or did that just not happen on Insiders at all.

    Clearly they didn't know. And nobody who was capable of figuring it on insiders cares anymore because Alliances have been absurdly OP for 2 years and everybody said it doesn't matter. And because cosmetic rewards have never been particularly difficult if you knew how to cheese mechanics.

    I tested some of this stuff, and I know some other people were testing just to see what kind of stuff could be cheesed. But I really have no idea what Rare thinks is supposed to be balanced or what they think is an appriopate grind. I'm really not sure why any of this matters to anyone if they're fine with the balance of Alliances. That's still way more broken then Looping voyages, and make the other factions just as broke as RB was.

  • I'm a long time casual player and I really think you miss this audience. Nerfing athena emissary is ridiculous, I understand you want people to play more but the content isn't engaging enough and I know of so many people that have stopped playing due to the grind. Not everyone is a streamer and it seems your game is now geared for them to play for longer periods. You have lost me as a player again due to the grind being to time consuming. Athena emmisary should build still while completing ship battles and pve world activities. Balancing? Why would a normal casual player that may game for 2 hours a day complete the same thieves haven athena run mission everyday for 1 month now with no reason as u lowered rep. All u will case now is alliances swapping treasure to cheat it up. Again engaging and rewarding 4 to 8 hour a day players. You need to engage your player base with changing content not repeditive tasks. Your game has so much potential you need to use it. Look at making a central hub as a safe zone in the middle of the map where players and meet and crew and party up. Have things to do for interactive player to find crews not just lobby with disengaged people. A safe haven like in rust the outpost would at least create some down time fun. Please think about casual players!

  • I'm a long time casual player and I really think you miss this audience. Nerfing athena emissary is ridiculous, I understand you want people to play more but the content isn't engaging enough and I know of so many people that have stopped playing due to the grind. Not everyone is a streamer and it seems your game is now geared for them to play for longer periods. You have lost me as a player again due to the grind being to time consuming. Athena emmisary should build still while completing ship battles and pve world activities. Balancing? Why would a normal casual player that may game for 2 hours a day complete the same thieves haven athena run mission everyday for 1 month now with no reason as u lowered rep. All u will case now is alliances swapping treasure to cheat it up. Again engaging and rewarding 4 to 8 hour a day players. You need to engage your player base with changing content not repeditive tasks. Your game has so much potential you need to use it. Look at making a central hub as a safe zone in the middle of the map where players and meet and crew and party up. Have things to do for interactive player to find crews not just lobby with disengaged people. A safe haven like in rust the outpost would at least create some down time fun. Please think about the casual players!

  • @musicmee @MikeTheMutinous I still believe the Emissary detector is a perk too far. We'll see if this balances it a bit, but especially with the greater rewards for lower grade flags, this will increase the value of items on the Smorgasbord Menu given to Grade V Reapers. I still believe Reaper's should be about hunting, not shopping. Let them use the spyglass. Maybe add music that indicates Grade of the Emissary they spy. Much more immersive, more interesting, and still allows for naval tactics, and evasion, when in combat with Reaper's.

    As an example, I had a Grade IV Reaper hunting me (I'd "opted out" by not having an emissary flag, myself, but that was no disincentive for them, obviously). We were in the Roar. I was down by Ashen Reaches. I tried boarding to stop the chase, but my gun wouldn't fire (hope that's fixed) and I was killed. I headed East and then North toward Glowstone Cay as the Fog was rolling in and I hoped maybe I could get them to run aground. The fog got thicker sooner than I expected. I saw them disappear behind me on my left (they were close, though). I then saw the top of a rock on my right, so I silently turned hard right, raised sails to increase my turn speed, and dropped to get behind the rock (thankfully not smacking into it in the fog). It worked. They turned around thinking I'd doubled back, but I just moved slowly to keep the rock between myself and them. The fog lifted, and it felt a lot like this:

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/c3qNy2bwmLo/maxresdefault.jpg

    It was incredibly tense, and amazing. After what felt like an eternity, I guess they got attacked by a Meg and then were Grade V. But, my naval tactic had worked, and they sailed back West and out of the Roar. Had I been an emissary, that skill would've meant nothing. And, I don't feel that should be the case even with emissaries. I'm not against PvP encounters, but I feel we should always be able to use the tools at our disposal in combat - use of the terrain (either to evade or get a better position for combat) shouldn't be removed because someone happens to reach Grade V.

    Solo slooping should be a challenge, a difficult challenge, even. The YouTube video where @resident-veg and @keeyaa discuss the challenges of solo play inspired me to create my strictly solo pirate character. But, if you are going to allow for solo play, it shouldn't feel futile, and, unfortunately, on release of the update, that's what it felt like. Prior to that, reaching PL and then A10 was hard... really hard... sometimes resisting punching the screen hard, but it never felt futile. I always tried to say "GG" to anyone who sank me and got my stuff. I never thought, "Why am I even bothering?" That happened for the first time this week. I actually sat waiting for Morrow's Peak to stop erupting (for the third time), loot on the deck, sighed sadly, and just quit the game. No threat approaching, just after a few hours of play, an overwhelming, stone in my gut feeling of... "What's the point?" Never experienced that before with this game. Hope to never feel that way again.

    I hope these changes and the server fixes bring that back from feeling futile to feeling very hard.

  • @mikethemutinous @Musicmee @buccanerd

    There is an issue right now with the Reapers Bones however that doesn't seem to be addressed by the update.

    When crews leave the game, the flag is removed from the ship. So when players are attacked and are about to sink, they leave the game entirely to avoid dropping their flag.

    Scuttling will still drop the flag and we will be able to pick it up, but if the crew leave then the flag is removed entirely and will not drop.

    Has this been addressed or acknowledged.

  • Should have been working of searching the seas problem not changing the rep. So I can get even less loot and rep now after this patch could have done that next update.. good one matie

    Searching the seas!!!

  • General Consensus: Catering to PVP. Casual PVE players done. Congratulations 🎉

    PVE who don't want the static are doing Server Takeovers. That's a fact even before the Emissaries.

    The balance you seek in your game has never and will never happen.

    PVP and PVE do not and will never co-exsist.

    PVE players will take a hard pass and leave the game, or continue with Server Takeovers.

  • @masterbetty89 Ahoy matey!

    The Searching the Seas issue has also been fixed!

  • @mikethemutinous please give us reapers back you can keep athenas but please give us reapers back ive played every day since the update and the last time a saw a emmasary was a week ago we get no rep now at level 37 you get nothing so please just put back rep for reaper

  • I don't think the nerf on the Athena's emissary quest loop was the right thing to do.

    It needed a nerf, but it should've taken a longer time to reach Grade V, more distance between island in Emissary quest and lowering gold/rep for lowering flag.

    Not dropping completely the loop of lowering and raising the flag and using the emissary quest to raise up to Grade V...

  • @mentimjojo The problem with the loop was not the gold reward from lowering the flag

  • I think it should be only right to reset the emissary ledger leaderboards if things have been adjusted to make them take longer and be short term so high rewarding. People late to the party and starting from this update will have an unfair handicap on trying to people that smashed it out in the first week.

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