The reality is that a lot of people think that the sword should be competitive and usable against guns and while I agree it can't be right now. The reality is that the sword is too simplistic and easy to use to be as powerful as it is, it needs to be harder to use if it is as powerful as it is.
Improving Swordplay
@jackkle6026 said in Improving Swordplay:
The reality is that a lot of people think that the sword should be competitive and usable against guns and while I agree it can't be right now. The reality is that the sword is too simplistic and easy to use to be as powerful as it is, it needs to be harder to use if it is as powerful as it is.
The buff brought the sword inline with the other weapons. Before the buff it was 20 per hit for the sword, 50 for flintlock, 10-100 for blunderbuss, and 75 for EoR. Now that it is 25, up to 75, the sword is now a weapon that can be used against the other weapons.
Everybody who says that the sword takes no skill to use doesn't use it or is a double gunner. To effectively use a sword, you have to dodge the enemies shots/swings, and get close, which could backfire if a blunder is equipped.
All I see in some of these replies is failure on both Rare and the players. Rare should have got on ball and remedied the weapon balance early. Not waited for over a year to address them.
Next it’s the players for not willing to keep playing and keep getting better. Try playing with something other than two guns.
Makes me laugh at the hypocrisy of the comments of how a whole crew of cutlass user shouldn’t be able to kill me so fast. Well this is exactly what was being said when a player using a cutlass was instant killed by a crew of double guns. I guess it takes more skill to all shoot the same person and the same time.
If you’d learn how to use the cutlass you understand it’s in a good place. If your ganged up on it’s not the cutlasses fault you can’t block all the hits. It’s that you positioned yourself at a disadvantage. There’s more to the cutlass then just swinging.
@prestoshelf3677 sagte in Improving Swordplay:
@bugaboo-bill Thing is that you can't evade it when its range is completely broken and the stun lock makes it impossible to escape that range. If you even get slashed with the sword once, you're pretty much finished.
I cannot agree i get slashed and i block, evade and counter attack.
If you read further it's maybe a matter of input methods and game modes that make you feel this way.
The PvP i have feels way better now.@coolguy56562 sagte in Improving Swordplay:
Many people always mention that blocking with a sword is the counter to sword spamming and that to do the same back, but what they don't understand is that our problem comes when we do not ulwant to have to use the sword to have to keep ourselves alive or have to relay on lucky blunders, countering the sword with a it's own block is like 'if u can't beat them join them'. And we do not want to have that problem.
What @JollyOlsteamed said!
there is no i dont like to use a sword and play SoT like an FPS solely!
Weapons were meant to be used situationally.
Mostly you use a cutlass and a gun that fits the situaion.
You want to sniper a keg in the crows nest, the helmsman, someone running at the beach etc. use EOR.
You need to repell someone from the ladder, deal with golden skeletons, fight close quarter, cutlass and blunder.
You want the allrounder versus skeletons and players alike with some slight more quick reload use the flintlock.
You defend yourself in a spot you profit from having as much bullets to shoot as you can have. I had two guys camping the RH tent with EOR, Flintlock and a lot of ammoboes i guess. We werent able to reach them, they doubletapped us all in a second ,because they had enough firepower and we had nothing to throw at them or get close, so we also switched to two guns and a gun battle begans. All fine for this situation!I tell people all day SoT is not an FPS and if you refuse to use all weapons situationally you put yourself in a disadvantage.
And yes it was Rares fault to let DG to be that strong for a long time and give several streamers the backup for an FPS playstyle to promote it.
Now as it has been more balanced again ike it should be, people realize the DG FPS aproach can be usefull, but mostly isn't.
I can assume for Arena players this is a slap in the face as fights on Ships are not supposed to be DG playground.
What i would do if i'd like to DG.DG only on the upper decks of Brigantine and Galleone at max.
All other spaces are too small and too angeld to profit from two guns.
The cutlass belongs to the wepaon loadouts and is a "pirate style" weapon, it should be viable in many situations and is your swiss knife for nearly everything. It's super usefull in many situations.
But there are situations the cutlass doesnt help you and is not only suboptimal, but contraindicated, for eample if you come across a poweder keg skeleton or player or if you get attacked from afar from a player, you have to switch to a gun too or you are dead. And lets hope you have the right gun equipped for that situation, the blunder is fine to protect your ship, but fighting on an outpost versus someone with an EoR is mostly a death sentence.See situational use is what the wepaons and the combat is about.
Not FPS only, not Melee only.chosse your weapons wisely and learn to use them - that is skill i apreciate!
Skill to adapt, skill to think like a tactician!@coolguy56562 said in Improving Swordplay:
Many people always mention that blocking with a sword is the counter to sword spamming and that to do the same back, but what they don't understand is that our problem comes when we do not ulwant to have to use the sword to have to keep ourselves alive or have to relay on lucky blunders
Dude is that supposed to be 'all want'? SMH
@jackkle6026 said in Improving Swordplay:
The reality is that a lot of people think that the sword should be competitive and usable against guns and while I agree it can't be right now. The reality is that the sword is too simplistic and easy to use to be as powerful as it is, it needs to be harder to use if it is as powerful as it is.
I disagree with this.
@supersnipper60 said in Improving Swordplay:
@jackkle6026 said in Improving Swordplay:
The reality is that a lot of people think that the sword should be competitive and usable against guns and while I agree it can't be right now. The reality is that the sword is too simplistic and easy to use to be as powerful as it is, it needs to be harder to use if it is as powerful as it is.
The buff brought the sword inline with the other weapons. Before the buff it was 20 per hit for the sword, 50 for flintlock, 10-100 for blunderbuss, and 75 for EoR. Now that it is 25, up to 75, the sword is now a weapon that can be used against the other weapons.
Everybody who says that the sword takes no skill to use doesn't use it or is a double gunner. To effectively use a sword, you have to dodge the enemies shots/swings, and get close, which could backfire if a blunder is equipped.
...and agree with this.
I find that pirates fall into 3 camps when it comes to personal combat:
- Double-gunners
- Sword Spammers
- Me
Double-gunners see this game as a shooter, and try to bring their twitch-finger logic to the sea - ultimately, they get upset once they realize they have to reload after every shot, as well as when they fail to get out of the way.
Sword-spammers are sword-users that quite simply lack skill. They rely on numbers and cornering, and the occasional misguided charge attack. They are the bane of double gunners.
Then there's me - the pirate that understands the true depth of both the firearms and the sword. While I may not be the best at combat, my knowledge and Insight puts me a step ahead of the rest. For example, knowing that if I'm attacked by a sword spammer, I can simply draw out my sword, block, and as their strike connects with my block, I can then dodge through my opponent to attack them from behind - all during their own combo. This works fast too - even if they hit me with the 1st attack of the combo-string, I can have the sword out and blocking by the time the 2nd attack comes out. Even if I'm stunned, the dodge still works, so that's a non-issue, because it provides some mobility.
Most pirates aren't like me; a few might be, but they're in the 0.1%. Many don't even know about the dodge (and other undisclosed mechanics) and of those that do, most don't realize that you can use it to pass through an opponent's space. That knowledge is a huge game changer! Knowing that if you're about to be cornered, that you not only have a way out, but also a way to counter and corner your opponents? That's the difference between winning and meeting this guy:
P.S. - alternatively, you can dodge backwards as you block the attack to gain some much needed space, draw your firearm, and shoot them. If they pressure you, you can simply cancel back into sword mid-shot for an almost-instant block.
@galactic-geek
here lies the problem buried!!!our problem comes when we do not ulwant to have to use the sword
i'd say the whole problem is the wrong perception of SoT as an FPS - maybe because some prominent Streamers advertise it this way and until DG was strong in almost every situation, now that it has been fixed and cutlass is viable an competetive again they would need to change their pov and aproach torwards the game, realizing it is not an FPS, but an FPPerspective game with Melee and Ranged Combat. See my post above.
@jackkle6026 said in Improving Swordplay:
The reality is that a lot of people think that the sword should be competitive and usable against guns and while I agree it can't be right now. The reality is that the sword is too simplistic and easy to use to be as powerful as it is, it needs to be harder to use if it is as powerful as it is.
Why are you acting like the guns in the game are complex, they too are extremely simple (compare it to any gun play in gun based combat games) :
- Single shot muskets
- No regional damage; literally hit a pirate anywhere!
Reality is: All weapons in this game are simple, be it the sword or the guns. Combat is mainly about positioning.
How to counter swords:
- Keep distance - kite, use knock back effects etc.
- If your argument is: Most fights happen in close combat, then use the gun that is meant for close quarter combat: Blunderbuss if you don't want to use a sword. Don't complain that the long ranged weapons are not as effective in close quarter combat than weapons specialized in it...
Additionally guns in a 1v1 usually have a large edge: They can kill you quicker, due to them being ranged weapons! Yet most of the complaints about the sword is: 1vX isn't fair, they overwhelm us... while if people have somewhat of an aim 1vX and the X all use guns, you won't even get on the ship as you get shot down before you do.
This is a pirate game, of course people want the sword to be competitive... pirate fantasy and swords is kind of a classic combination?
@Bugaboo-Bill @SuperSnipper60 @Galactic-Geek @CotU42 All of you, you need to take a second and actually listen to another person, in this case, me. Some of you are operating under the idea that this is not a first person shooter, as I have already discussed this with Cot, first person shooter is not exclusively a genera, it is also an aspect and the genera is made up of games that focus on that aspect. The point of this is that the combat of this game is that of a first person shooter, it does not have spray control or headshots or any of that but it is still first person shooter combat and that is not an arguable point. That is a fact.
There is also a lot of talk here about some kind of "higher play" when using the sword, and while I have yet to see any of that "higher play" in over a month, I am willing to walk with you to that bridge that it exists because whether it does or doesn't, that's not the point. The point is that it can be used in an easy, brain dead way that takes no skill whatsoever.
The reality is the sword can be used far too effectively with no skill whatsoever and people will attempt to make it as powerful as possible because it is supposedly the "pirate weapon of fantasy" but that is not for you to decide. The sword is too easy to use they need to nerf the sword spamming and just make it interesting again.
@jackkle6026 said in Improving Swordplay:
@Bugaboo-Bill @SuperSnipper60 @Galactic-Geek @CotU42 All of you, you need to take a second and actually listen to another person, in this case, me.
"LOOK AT ME WHEN I'M TALKING TO YOU!" is the vibe I get from this. 😅
...and yes, we're listening; so-to-speak.
Some of you are operating under the idea that this is not a first person shooter, as I have already discussed this with Cot, first person shooter is not exclusively a genera, it is also an aspect and the genera is made up of games that focus on that aspect.
First-person is a perspective, not an aspect. First-person shooter is essentially a style of gameplay. This game is a first-person Adventure game with shooter elements, but those elements are not the main aspect of the game, therefore, it's not a first-person-shooter as you claim. The first-person perspective is for immersion - that's the main aspect of the game; it helps you feel like an actual pirate in a fun, family-friendly manner.
The point of this is that the combat of this game is that of a first person shooter, it does not have spray control or headshots or any of that but it is still first person shooter combat and that is not an arguable point. That is a fact.
I just argued to the contrary - first-person shooters aren't about exploring the world, solving puzzles, or befriending potential enemies. A first-person shooter is all about destroying the opposition and not much else.
There is also a lot of talk here about some kind of "higher play" when using the sword, and while I have yet to see any of that "higher play" in over a month, I am willing to walk with you to that bridge that it exists because whether it does or doesn't, that's not the point.
I'd be happy to share the finer points with you in-game whenever you're available.
The point is that it can be used in an easy, brain dead way that takes no skill whatsoever.
Yes, it can be used easily - it's a pointy stick; so using it isn't going to be Rocket science. However, just because it can be used in a simple manner doesn't mean that it takes no skill to use; it still takes skill to use it well - a kid with a pointy stick won't beat a master fencer. It just isn't going to happen.
The reality is the sword can be used far too effectively with no skill whatsoever
Not true; it only appears effective because their opponents aren't willing to acknowledge how their own mistakes contributed to their own defeat.
and people will attempt to make it as powerful as possible because it is supposedly the "pirate weapon of fantasy" but that is not for you to decide.
It's not powerful at all; it's not underpowered either. It's balanced - and better than ever before.
The sword is too easy to use they need to nerf the sword spamming and just make it interesting again.
A mechanic shouldn't be nerfed or made more complicated simply because it's easy to use. Perhaps you should become more knowledgeable and learn how to use it more effectively yourself before calling for change? I would even argue that your ignorance in this matter shows that it's not really simple at all. Again, I'd be more than happy to help you with that. 😉
@jackkle6026 I did 'listen' to you. That's why I responded to your post. You are correct, this game is not a first person shooter, as it isn't. Halo, Destiny, and Apex Legends are some examples. Using the sword does require skill, as you have to dodge enemy shots/swings, avoid the blunderbuss (if enemy equips it), and hit a moving target.
@jackkle6026 you don't get it, you claim to listen: this game there is a sword and it fits the genre of Adventure fantasy pirate game. This game has FPS elements, it has guns and first person view. Yet that doesn't mean that the sword is not supposed to be competitive.
Guns already have an advantage in 1v1 situations, what else do you need? Your claim that guns are difficult, complex is bogus due to the points you mentioned about the gunplay and what it doesn't have.
The sword is simple and so are the guns. The combat is about positioning and the ability to fight at the range that suits your weapon, that is it. Pirate fights are not complicated mechanics in this game.
You claim skill due to your ability to point and click, but deny those the skill recognition for the ability to not get shot and get in your face. Skill based.
@jackkle6026
I want a weapon that takes no skill!
Wait 2!
Cutlass and Blunder and i want to kill you skilled Pro's and uber humankind gamers blindly spamming while beeing a noob.
End of discussion.Go away with your skill blabla elitism.
It's a game, not Olympia my god.In the end it's this :
"Im so super skilled, im so pro, i put so much effort into Training musclememory i deserve to be in the top ten, but this game allows every noob to kill me.
That can not be minimi."Get over it, you "skill" word spammers make you all look like fools, really.
You come here crying for beeing killed, overwhelmed, outplayed and cry and tell us you are skilled and the others not, but you lost and that is unfair.
...while refusing to see is a FPperspectice game not a pure shooter.
Maybe you lack skill and are only crying!?
Rare
Make Arena a Shooter on islands!
Problem solved@galactic-geek This really begs the question. Can you read? Asking legitimately. Can you read? If you could you would notice that I am not saying that this game is first person shooter by genera, it is an action/adventure game, I am saying that this games combat, I will repeat, combat, is first person shooter combat. And if you disagree with that assertion, try explaining why.
That is a nice little analogy with the pointy stick, but it has one flaw. A child with a pointy stick can't kill a grown adult by arbitrarily hitting their arms and torso four times.
You talk a lot about how "if you die to the sword it's exclusively your own fault" and how "they sword is perfectly balanced" however you present no proof to make me believe it. I'm not some chump, you can't just say I'm wrong and expect me to believe it.
While you are not incorrect about easy mechanics, what you are saying only applies if that easy mechanic can be utilized in a more effective way, as you say the problem with something like sword spam is that there is no more effective way to use it, if you learn to use the sword in a more skilled way, you are no longer sword spamming. The problem comes when that spamming is too effective, you claim that if you get sword spammed and die then it is your own fault, but this is not always true. This has to do with the max speed you character can achieve, the space you have to work with, the absurd range of the sword, the instant root feature if you are so much grazed by the sword, and the shortened TTK with the new damage buff. All of these things combine to make the incredibly powerful when used in a very easy, low skill way and that should be changed by Rare, because people do not appreciate it
@jackkle6026 said in Improving Swordplay:
You talk a lot about how "if you die to the sword it's exclusively your own fault" and how "they sword is perfectly balanced" however you present no proof to make me believe it. I'm not some chump, you can't just say I'm wrong and expect me to believe it.
hang on i don't mean to nitpick
but i feel like using the "no proof card" is unfair
i fail to see any proof that the sword is overpowered
i took on a 1v3 last night did just fine against them
i used my sword when it mattered and used my gun when it was needed
i use the sword as last resort
i had to use it to graze myself out of a corner and i had to use it when i ran out of ammo dashing forward with a slash always throws the opponent off because 99% of the time they have no clue your able to do it
they still insisted on only using the slash button while dying repeatedly
you use the "no proof" arguement while failing to provide any of your own
it is unfair to tell someone to provide proof whilst not bringing any yourself
for all we know people who die to the sword could be people who has no clue how to counter it
or any clue how to use it themselves
or fail to create spacing between close quarter and long quarter
what do i know i see no proof to tell me otherwise 🤷♂️
the sword is a matter of opinion you think its broken we think its not i'd pretty much argue we know its not
and trust me alot of people appreciate this buff because it has effectively made it a viable choice competitively AND casually
just for future refrence if your going to remark on people's lack of proof
be damn sure to bring your own
@jollyolsteamed It would seem you require a basic lesson on how debate works. Let us go back to the beginning of my involvement in this post, OP professes an opinion that I agree with, I post agreeing with OP and elaborating based on my own experiences, Sniper, Galactic Geek, and Cot all respond to my post professing various forms of disagreement. Disagreement is an arbitrary feeling that, when kept to yourself, matters to no one but yourself. When you reply to someone you disagree with, the only purpose of doing so is to tell them why you disagree with them, and often to attempt to make them see, and hopefully adopt your point of view. If I am to have my mind changed about anything, you have to convince me that the way I think about it is wrong and that your way of thinking is right and the best way to do that is to present evidence and show me why you are right. Also, I have never been opposed to presenting my own evidence. Someone need only ask...
@jackkle6026 sagte in Improving Swordplay:
@galactic-geek This really begs the question. Can you read? Asking legitimately. Can you read? If you could you would notice that I am not saying that this game is first person shooter by genera, it is an action/adventure game, I am saying that this games combat, I will repeat, combat, is first person shooter combat. And if you disagree with that assertion, try explaining why.
Because it has a cutlass as a main weapon!
That is a nice little analogy with the pointy stick, but it has one flaw. A child with a pointy stick can't kill a grown adult by arbitrarily hitting their arms and torso four times.
As it should be a this is not a highly competetive game, but a comical pirate game for fun where a little kid can kill you easily.
Isnt that great!?
Start playing, dont mind losing so much.All of these things combine to make the incredibly powerful when used in a very easy, low skill way and that should be changed by Rare, because people do not appreciate it
I apreciate it!
@jackkle6026 Proof? You want proof? I offered to show you! Not once, but twice!
You never took me up on the offer - that's on you; not me. The choice is yours - continue to sulk in ignorance and beg for change that will never come; or you can accept my invitation, show me some respect, and then perhaps maybe you'll learn something.
I still can't believe people still argue about sword. You complain when it was too weak so they buffed it, now they buff it (not by very much) people ask for a nerf, MAKE YOUR MIND UP.
For me, combat is in a relatively healthy state (aside from hit reg) and I feel for the most part there is a balance between weapons. If anything, the meta still prefers DG over sword, I find DG slightly better than sword personally and all decent PvP players I see/encounter use the same. Aside from bugs and a few animations issues I feel combat is somewhat balanced for the first time in months and I'm getting bored of people consistently arguing over the same topics time and time again. At the end of the day everyone's view of 'balanced' or 'perfect' combat is different, but for me the current build is as close to balance as we perhaps will ever get.
@jackkle6026 said in Improving Swordplay:
@jollyolsteamed It would seem you require a basic lesson on how debate works. Let us go back to the beginning of my involvement in this post, OP professes an opinion that I agree with, I post agreeing with OP and elaborating based on my own experiences, Sniper, Galactic Geek, and Cot all respond to my post professing various forms of disagreement. Disagreement is an arbitrary feeling that, when kept to yourself, matters to no one but yourself. When you reply to someone you disagree with, the only purpose of doing so is to tell them why you disagree with them, and often to attempt to make them see, and hopefully adopt your point of view. If I am to have my mind changed about anything, you have to convince me that the way I think about it is wrong and that your way of thinking is right and the best way to do that is to present evidence and show me why you are right. Also, I have never been opposed to presenting my own evidence. Someone need only ask...
but the exact same thing could be said about agreeing no?
shouldn't the agreeing party also provide proof to try to convince the disagreeing party
you dont seem to understand how it works either
next time don't lecture me in matters that you clearly do not understand
if you are presented with a disagreeing party while in an agreeing party you are at an impasse
now "Both" parties need to convince eachother of which is right
i don't see you doing that either so i still think its very unfair for you to tell everyone else to provide proof and try to convince you but none yourself
this seems hypocritical
this is certainly "NOT" how you debate
@jackkle6026 said in Improving Swordplay:
I post agreeing with OP and elaborating based on my own experiences, Sniper, Galactic Geek, and Cot all respond to my post professing various forms of disagreement.
It's SuperSnipper60.
@jackkle6026 said in Improving Swordplay:
@galactic-geek This really begs the question. Can you read? Asking legitimately. Can you read? If you could you would notice that I am not saying that this game is first person shooter by genera, it is an action/adventure game, I am saying that this games combat, I will repeat, combat, is first person shooter combat. And if you disagree with that assertion, try explaining why.
That is a nice little analogy with the pointy stick, but it has one flaw. A child with a pointy stick can't kill a grown adult by arbitrarily hitting their arms and torso four times.
You talk a lot about how "if you die to the sword it's exclusively your own fault" and how "they sword is perfectly balanced" however you present no proof to make me believe it. I'm not some chump, you can't just say I'm wrong and expect me to believe it.
While you are not incorrect about easy mechanics, what you are saying only applies if that easy mechanic can be utilized in a more effective way, as you say the problem with something like sword spam is that there is no more effective way to use it, if you learn to use the sword in a more skilled way, you are no longer sword spamming. The problem comes when that spamming is too effective, you claim that if you get sword spammed and die then it is your own fault, but this is not always true. This has to do with the max speed you character can achieve, the space you have to work with, the absurd range of the sword, the instant root feature if you are so much grazed by the sword, and the shortened TTK with the new damage buff. All of these things combine to make the incredibly powerful when used in a very easy, low skill way and that should be changed by Rare, because people do not appreciate it
@Galactic Geek can read, how do I know? He responded to your posts. Combat doesn't necessarily mean first person shooter. Think of MMO's like WoW, or LoL, and then think of Fortnite.
The sword is balanced out now. Before the buff, the sword dealt 20 damage, with a possibility of 60. Now the sword deals 5 more damage, with the possibility of 75, and that brings it in line with the other weapons.
@supersnipper60 said in Improving Swordplay:
The sword is balanced out now. Before the buff, the sword dealt 20 damage, with a possibility of 60. Now the sword deals 5 more damage, with the possibility of 75, and that brings it in line with the other weapons.
Not entirely correct; it was 20/50, but is now 25/60. So instead of 5/2 attacks, it's 4/2.
@bugaboo-bill
Go away with your skill blabla elitism.
It's a game, not Olympia my god.In the end it's this :
"Im so super skilled, im so pro, i put so much effort into Training musclememory i deserve to be in the top ten, but this game allows every noob to kill me.
That can not be minimi."Well in my opinion the lack of a skill-gap is a problem.
Normally you start a new game up and most of the time suck at it. As you play more you learn new tricks, mechanics and overall get better. It's a rewarding feeling to know you started as a complete noob and now you can effectively win your fights because you put in the effort to learn and improve new skills. Maybe now you can even 1v4.
In SoT this aspect is still there, to some extend, but as with the sword right now it's gone. At some point cutlass actually took (yes I'm gonna use the word) SKILL. You could do block-slashes, swing-block dodge maneuvers, sword lunge exhaust cancels and there was no forced delay in between swinging and blocking. You actually had to learn the sword-mechanics to use it to its fullest potential. It felt fluid and fun.
Now it's basically a M1 and W fest with occasional block-bhops and sword lunges. You just slash away at a stunned target until he dies. The sword skill-ceiling got nerfed heavily while increasing its power overall.
I'm not saying revert the damage changes. I'm just proposing to take out the stun. (you don't need it) and add new, not so easy to learn mechanics (like the old ones I mentioned earlier).
Sword makes you so agile and unpredictable with timed block-bhops that you can easily close the gap on an enemy player.If there were advanced mechanics to sword-gameplay then people would get less angry over dying to a good sword player because they know that he had to learn his skills and not just M1 + W.
The feeling of improvement and accomplishment would also come back as you get better yourself.
@insaiity To my knowledge, most of what you mentioned that can no longer be done can actually still be done.
In SoT this aspect is still there, to some extend, but as with the sword right now it's gone.
No, not really.
At some point cutlass actually took (yes I'm gonna use the word) SKILL.
Still does.
You could do block-slashes, swing-block dodge maneuvers, sword lunge exhaust cancels
Still can do all of those.
and there was no forced delay in between swinging and blocking.
There's always been a delay; it was only increased slightly.
You actually had to learn the sword-mechanics to use it to its fullest potential.
Still do, and this is where virtually every pirate I encounter falls short.
It felt fluid and fun.
While it started out great in this sense early on, and was then lacking for a time, it's improved greatly over numerous updstes.
@galactic-geek
Yes it can be done but at the same time it can't.
You can obviously block after a slash but there was a delay added to it. It is slower and more clunky. Which means in return that you get hit if the other one just keeps on pressing M1. Therefore it's not an advanced mechanic that if timed and done right will get you the upper hand in combat, but simply will get you killed.And the sword-lunge exhaust cancel is gone. If you hit, for example, the ground before you lunge off you will still be exhausted if you hit no one.
And you also cannot keep your slash-combo going by hitting the ground or ship-parts, etc.
Some of the mechanics are gone and others got nerfed into the ground in order to try to put skilled and less skilled players on an even playing-field and therefore reducing the skill-ceiling.
And how exactly does the current sword-vortex and the M1+W take skill. Maybe I'm missing something but I just can't see it.
If you are about to say movement then I'm gonna have to tell you that that's a necessity for every weapon.@galactic-geek said in Improving Swordplay:
@supersnipper60 said in Improving Swordplay:
The sword is balanced out now. Before the buff, the sword dealt 20 damage, with a possibility of 60. Now the sword deals 5 more damage, with the possibility of 75, and that brings it in line with the other weapons.
Not entirely correct; it was 20/50, but is now 25/60. So instead of 5/2 attacks, it's 4/2.
My bad. Thanks!
@supersnipper60 Same thing, this games combat is first person shooter combat, that isn't an arguable point, it is. You claim the sword requires skill because you have to dodge shots, but that means nothing, because someone could hit you dead on and hit reg could deny that person any damage on you while you don't have to take initiative to doge shots at all and you claim that hitting someone moving takes skill, but, no it doesn't. The huge range of the sword makes it incredibly easy to hit someone, and you only have to hit them once to freeze them in place and almost guarantee the next two hits (unless attacked by someone else). None of that is skill, it is luck and stupid respectively.
@jackkle6026 How many new players do you see using the advanced lunge? (left trigger, right trigger, a [ creates a long distance lunge/jump]) Slashing the sword is easy, but getting to the opponent is the hard part. I have yet to run into someone who shot me and I didn't take damage. The stun doesn't guarantee the next two hits. If the player blocks the swing, there will be no stun. Some players don't use left trigger, and then die to a better swordsman and then complain on the forums about "hackers," or "hit reg," or other gibberish.
@jackkle6026 Even when stunned, you can still block into sword dodge to move. Also, the range is fine as is and was already nerfed once already - the extreme range you're experiencing is likely either:
- Networkung issues on your end e.g., lag/desync),
- Server issues on their end (e.g., hit-reg), or
- Some sort of new bug.
It could also potentially be a combination of the above. Regardless, I don't believe it to be a consistent issue - I test melee range all of the time and never see these huge distances that others speak of.
@insaiity There's a reason I stated "most of what you mentioned" - I didn't want to include everything when I wasn't entirely certain for myself (factual info is important, yo!), specifically regarding the sword lunge cancels, which I never used to begin with (and never needed to).
@cotu42 I ask you, when did I ever say that the sword shouldn't be competitive? I specifically said that it should be but that it should but not right now, because it is currently too easy to use.
Also, guns have the advantage in 1v1 situation, and you call that fair? in a game where having a crew is everything, where playing solo is incredibly hard, where the devs want a crew to be mandatory, three out of the four weapons should be only usable in combination against a single person, which is not how this game is supposed to be played? Yeah, good joke, and you claim guns are easy, but at least you have to aim.
Also, I'm not one to reward participation, and that is what 'getting in your face' is because all fights are in close range, and you don't actually have to be able to dodge shots to survive, someone can shoot you completely accurately and still get hit reged.
@jackkle6026
Want to run a EoR and pistol, why are you the boarder and not on your ship sniping their helmsman and cannon men? Why are you diving off alone to go up close and personal with that load out, why not carry a close quarter combat weapon - blunder instead of a sword is viable also in multi target situations? As you mention it is a crew game, yet nearly all sword complaints are about 1v4 or 1v3 situations. A crew should have a varied set of load outs, where all weapons are represented. Now the sword finally comes into the meta and is a contender... the sword is to simple and powerful based on a 5 damage increase? Really... while guns are also simple and were dominating the PvP field exclusively. What the hell is so complicated about guns? How is that not as simplified and simple as sword play? What changed in reality? 5 damage per hit. I didn't hear people complain about the sword play before... ooh yeah because it wasn't used in reality and was to easy to deal with while holding guns?
The fact is not all load outs are going to be the best at all battle situations. Is that a bad thing? Want to board, grab a close quarter combat weapon or be a master kiter... if you are defending 2 guns should easily dispatch of an enemy boarder.
@cotu42
The major difference between guns and sword is that with a gun you actually have to aim to hit someone (I refer to jumping, dodging targets) and pray that your shot counts (hitreg). After that you aslo have a downtime when you relode.The swords hitbox is massiv and combined with great mobility and a stunlock you just have to swing in the general direction and can kill 4 people at once (obviously a little exaggerated).
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