Dont want to be a downer but SoT is infested again with hacks

@wolfmanbush said in Dont want to be a downer but SoT is infested again with hacks:

@electricknights said in Dont want to be a downer but SoT is infested again with hacks:

See, this is where your stance is going off the rails. Everything is about your own anecdotal experiences, but you begin casting dispersions about other people's experiences.
Believe what you want to believe, but it is laughable, if not insulting, that you'd try to pain other people's experiences of obtaining information about this subject the way that you just did.
It is possible, no matter how experienced you may be, that you have remained (zero insult intended) ignorant to the use of these things. As a person of logic, you must be able to recognize this may be the case. So, I don't know why you would go so far as you have just done.

Human behavior can be rather predictable. When players (correct or not) believe they are going against other players using cheats, a portion of them will begin to use those cheats, themselves. It's the same mentality as using egregious exploits. If their opponents are using them, then they need to use them in order to compete.

I really hate talking about this... but the ESP thing that has been mentioned is rather real.

That said, none of that ensures the cheaters any wins. It is very doable to defeat people using that, along with aim cheats, and a number of other things. Obviously, we've likely all seen other videos of more extreme cheats (flying and dropping kegs on people), but these unseen things that are far far too easily available are a real shame.

But, hopefully Rare and Microsoft are doing good things to combat this stuff. So, I can't honestly say I know what the state of affairs truly is. I'm not about to try using any such things in order to uncover how solid of a job their anti cheating processes are doing. :D

But yeah, it's up to each and every individual to determine whether our experiences hold any significance to them about this subject. I'm certainly no expert, but I've been shown things. That said, I couldn't pretend to know the true extent of things. It could be horrendous. It could be mild. The only thing I am pretty assured of is that it is not nonexistent, hehe.

When people say that there is a lot of cheating/widespread cheating they are directly attacking the character of players in this game. Based on gossip in discords and in dm's.

So yes, if people are accusing large chunks of the sot player base of cheating I think it's relevant to know why people are involved with these cheating demonstrations that do not end up in the game for people that play more than most.

Okay, so in thousands of hours playing, in going up against some of the sweatiest of sweats in the game, in encountering really funky behavior (exploits, not cheats), in receiving DMs from toxic people trying to insult, antagonize, harass... some people respond back. And sometimes (I've seen this multiple times) the stupid part of those exchanges stop and actual conversations begin. Sometimes, friendships/acquaintances are formed. Sometimes, you end up learning a great deal about what other players are doing.
If you've never followed up such things in that manner, and never had those exchanges turn into such relationships, that is reasonable and understandable, haha (I can't stand people that behave in those ways).
Some of my mates are far more tolerable of those people, however. And enjoy getting to know how they tick and learning about them.
That's one way in which I've learned about this stuff.

Also, if you're part of discords that has a wider group of players, you'll encounter all sorts of different people. And, if you get to talking to them, sometimes they feel comfortable sharing things you wouldn't expect they would share (never mind, the doing of those things).

Again, a lot of actual cheats aren't exactly recognizable when playing. So, NOT seeing those cheats doesn't mean they're not there. Of course, I recognize that can be taken to a ridiculous extreme of paranoia (and I've certainly heard from those players too, lol).
Blindly refuting experiences from longtime vets of this game, that do not take part in using or defending such tactics, is not a great look for those of us who have, indeed, learned of the nefarious things that do exist within the playerbase.

Of course, the extent of which these cheats are being perpetrated in the game (and the subjective definition of "rampant" and the like) is all truly unknown to either of us. But I have seen enough, myself, to not readily dismiss the notion that its spread is far more than desirable.

There are many degrees between claiming cheating is rampant and insisting it is not a prevalent at all. Either stance may be just as egregious as the other.
We can focus on one-by-one examples of caught individuals, but it is also wise to add those up, and to consider the wider possibilities.

The sum of it all, however, is that we are not the ones with the actual data, nor in control of the fight against cheating.
I just hope that Rare and Microsoft are doing as good of a job as is possible to combat that stuff.

And that's where I'll leave it.

(Also, a huge fan of gorillas btw haha. I got to see a huge silverback, casually laying right near me [through glass] suddenly rise up and ZOOM over to a young gorilla that was apparently acting up in some way that required a bit of a reminder to behave! Seeing such a massive ape move that quickly told me everything I needed to know about how amazingly strong they are. I also just love how chill they can be, sitting there, chewing on some veggies.)

Fair seas!

There were a few good members here years ago that fought in the opt out wars and were crucified for bringing up this issue.

Didn't take long for them to be proven right and people are now seeing this in full force thanks to the PVP update.

I'll never understand a Rare defender acting like there is no issue, a better anti-cheat patch cant hurt eithef way in my opinion.

@wolfmanbush said in Dont want to be a downer but SoT is infested again with hacks:

It's always odd to me how little footage of cheating exists. Considering how many hours people put into this game, all the footage that is collected from gameplay and available to view, the cheating videos are incredibly few considering the time spent playing and the footage gathered while playing.

@wolfmanbush

1. Because people are not going to share them cheating to not get banned (Sounds obvious)

2. Theres hacks and actual discord servers dedicated to SoT hacks and theres literally hundreds of members in each of them.

3. Hacks work a bit differently in this game then other games such as FPS. Aimbotting is mostly paid hacks. A LOT of players use hacks which cannot be detected by others and even RARE themselves such as FoV, Skin changer, and a few famous programs which shall not be named. I think I already brought this topic up to you not to long ago, but I will repeat myself for the viewers. MAJORITY of hacks in this game isn't obvious aimbots per say, it is information gathering hacks which cannot be detected by current anti-cheat nor the players falling victim to it... AKA, knowing how much loot you have on board, how many holes your ship has, where you are going to spawn before you even spawn in (People play smart and hide knowing where you spawn but position themselves accordingly) etc etc. Info Info Info.

4. How exactly can you gather proof of someone using a certain program that is basically wallhacks without people discreding the victim as ''malding/getting out played'' off of 1/2 clips from their PoV, for all people know that hacker could of just been lucky/good, but little do they know...

5. I don't know about you, got around 3k hours in this game, 90% is doing PvP, definitely up there in skill compared to the average PvP enjoyer. and I have seen quite a bit uptick in players using hacks and not bothered to hide them such as cannon aimbot from max range hitting the same spot on your ship on a consistent basis, not even Cracked MainCannon NAL players that spent their life in arena back then could do that. but a player with an account that has only 20 hours played on it? Yes I look up peoples xbox profiles when I know they are hacking and 9/10 they are playing on alts...

Hmmmmmm yeah... You know where I'm going with this. I know this is going to sound cocky from my end, but trust me in saying that a lot of SoT hacks are hard to detect unless the user
is using full features and being blatantly obvious such as fly hacks, swim hacks (Not the ladder bug mind you) etc.
ALSO a certain software that is client side can make your sails invisible for better vision during combat. Cannot be detected by anyone outside...

5b. On that topic, alt accounts take 5 minutes to create, so they get banned, no problem, make a new one and off you go. >>> This is a big problem that needs to be looked into.
Its come to a point I CBF reporting hackers with alt accounts because I know 10 minutes later they will be back, and this has happened to me in the past once.

6. The point above, even though I mentioned I encounter more frequently those types of players in this season, it's not as rampant as people claim it is thank god.
   HOWEVER on the same token, as mentioned before, you can't really tell if someone is using subtle hacks.

7. If you are genuinely interested in what hacks look like in this game, send me a message, because I have played and been shown by **** players that were willing to show it to me after I gained their trust enough, and EVEN THEN, you couldn't tell they were hacking if you were just an average player... The past 2 weeks I have managed to get people to admit they were using hacks through Xbox messages/footage etc. Again I can show you all I have saved and THEN tell me how your supposed to gather evidence if you are on the receiving end of that. (Near impossible to merit enough proof to get them banned through the RARE support submit cheaters page.) No proof > No care is how they operate.
   I literally have a folder filled with players and evidence, and the worst part is that they are still on the seas months after because of how easy it is to hide and make new accounts...

8. I believe the anti cheat that they use, posted by a RARE community member (Forgot their title) a while ago on this exact forum, mentioned they use Azure Microsoft, which isn't exactly the most robust anti-cheat. Remember that Injection cosmetic/commendation hack that was going around mid way through Season 7? Guess what, it is still there and common...
   THEY NEED A NEW ANTI CHEAT INSTALLED ASAP!

PS. I saw that you mentioned streamers getting sniped, I know for certainty that its not happening as often because player listing has been mostly patched out. so its hard to bot servers to find a streamers name using a software which is the most famous/accessible hack for SoT which shall not be named...

@wolfmanbush
Im sure people have reported hacking discord that have been there for months/years.
But RARE are in no power to take down those discord, or else they would of been ages ago.

What evidence is good if someone reports a screenshot from someone on discord showing off their injected unreleased cosmetics without their player name included in the screenshot?
Impossible, not enough evidence, Their Xbox gamertag isn't linked to their discord, could be any other player out there. EVEN though the reporter knows the person in question.

I also reported this dude that admitted in game voice of using a said software when I confronted him after I was sussed.
RARE's famous response "Not enough evidence" I can send you screenshots of that/footage like I mentioned in my previous comments.
Hacking is a lot more common then you think, not rampant, but I would say around 5-10% are using hacks under your nose, and as mentioned are hard to actually detect if they are not being obvious in using the more hardcore features that programs offer (Such as aimbotting/cannon aimbot/ flying/ speed swimming non stop etc..)

@wolfmanbush said in Dont want to be a downer but SoT is infested again with hacks:

@ix-indi-xi said in Dont want to be a downer but SoT is infested again with hacks:

People complain about Rare not doing enough, it sounds to me like people that make a lot of accusations aren't doing their part to assist in this, since they claim to have the info on people.

I do my part 100% especially if I know the person in question and their history.
Thing is RARE is not doing their part, their Azure anti-cheat is bad, sorry to say it just is... We are heavily relying on players being decent human beings, always have been.

Not sure if you are into the competition side of Sea of thieves, but players get banned pretty often for using some type of hacking software (monthly)
Those players play SoT comp for months, slip up once and get reported (Usually their inside circle spill the beans and it spreads), those reports are hit and miss by RARE themselves EVEN when evidence is clear as daylight, but not enough proof to tie the account to the player in itself.
sad.

Re-Read my original reply, and again shoot me a message if you want to open Pandoras box of what hacking really looks like in SoT, and I ask you again how tf players are meant to report them from their PoV (Not the hackers) Kinda hard to tell someone is using wallhacks. When most engages are close combat and could be due to luck/timing/skill instead of the hacker knowing where the player is at all times.
RARE needs a better anti-cheat, that is all, Theres no arguing about that at all. Like none.

being honest im probably not going to bother replying to you regarding this topic, I was like you when I played the game, but being in comp the past year and knowing quite a few people in a few circles, I have seen a lot that the community has to offer, in this regard, the bad side of SoT is pretty common as you might not think it is.

I don't want to come across as insulting you in any way shape or form in what I am about to say, but it feels like you are in denial in just how much players are actual using cheats undetected in this game.
Ok your average sloop v sloop encounter no one is hacking, but in about 20 games or so, you will come across a player or two using hacks, EVEN if if you manage to get a W out of them.
Go watch a "TDM SOT Montage" on youtube, I am serious, and you will face value of one of the most common hacks in the game (FoV) as well as soft aimbot/aimlocking.

AS mentioned the anti-cheat is really poor as it currently stands and has been since the start.

To all the Sailors downplaying and denying that hacking is a HUGE issue right now. Go on YT and do a quick search with keywords such as "Season 8, cannon prediction, ESP" This issue needs to be addressed immediately. Ignoring hacking issues is what absolutely tanked gamed like the original PUBG.

Just got two games back to back with cheating involved (Aimbots and ESP's mostly). Before that, had a couple games involving cheating as well in solo. Not here to prove anything, the players have been reported and they'll hopefully be dealt with. I've not been one to complain usually but duo and solo sloop cheaters are actually a thing right now.

I fully realize that some people are just that cracked at the game and that the line can be blurry sometimes but this is the first time in my 5k+ hours on this game that I've seen such a huge amount of blatant cheaters. Cheating has always been a thing in this game but most people I know who were on programs at least tried to make it not so obvious until they were eventually found out. Although I cannot speak to the exact numbers, if you've ever been involved in any big discord communities related to this game you would know for a fact that cheating is somewhat common at the higher end of the playerbase. Be it teammates, opponents, NAL players, randoms, I cannot tell you how many people I've seen get caught. Most of these players are usually "soft-cheating" in my experience, meaning they'll only use ESP pretty much but will restrict themselves not to use the more obvious stuff, offering them plausible deniability.

Still, I don't think the game is "infested" with hacks, they do exist and you will surely encounter them, most of the times without even knowing it, but still, it is somewhat rare. Season 8 just makes it so that you're more likely to encounter these players. That being said, I feel like Rare has to step up their game when it comes to their anticheat. As of right now, the only way to get caught is basically to stream your screen by accident or to use the more obvious, harder cheats.

@gotszu said in Dont want to be a downer but SoT is infested again with hacks:

Still, I don't think the game is "infested" with hacks, they do exist and you will surely encounter them, most of the times without even knowing it, but still, it is somewhat rare. Season 8 just makes it so that you're more likely to encounter these players. That being said, I feel like Rare has to step up their game when it comes to their anticheat. As of right now, the only way to get caught is basically to stream your screen by accident or to use the more obvious, harder cheats.

There we have it, as I mentioned, you can't get caught cheating in this game unless:
A. you use the more obvious features/hacks such as aimbot and not bothered to hide it.
B. You Share your PoV/Screen and get found out.

Still boggles my mind how some people are in hard denial that somehow cheating isn't somewhat common...

RARE anti cheat can't even detect hacks that have been coded by 17 year olds with 3 years of coding experience. (Clown Emoji)

Nobody here is claiming that game should not have better anti-cheat or report system. Everyone agrees with that. We all know cheaters exist as we have seen youtube footage of it.

Problem is that if evidence of it being a large scale issue is not or cannot be posted here then claims that it in fact is a large scale issue do become a blanket statement.
At that point we are so far into games life cycle that if it really was as large scale issue then it would be far more noticeable.

I will give you that it would be very easy to hide that you are cheating if you do not make it super obvious. Some regions might trouble with cheaters more than others.
All that being said, we can only come to conclusion from our experience with the encounters. And as some people here have massive amount of hours and still say that they don't really have experience of running into cheaters (to their knowledge) leads me to believe that the issue is blown out of proportion. I am in the same boat. I have 3k hours and all I do is pvp. I have so far only met 2 crews that I believe could have been using "external help".

Saying that you wont report it because it is rares job is kind of odd take. Games with much more robust anti-cheat systems like cs:go still rely on players to report others and then take it for a round of overwatch so players can also give their opinion if cheating happened or not.
Only game with anti-cheat system robust enough to catch cheaters to my knowledge is valorant. And their antic-heat was met with a lot of criticism because it runs on the root level of system.

To conclude. Is cheating really as prevalent is SOT as people here claim it to be? I do not know, but I doupt. I will bet that if you are on the other side of the coin then you do not know either. Few discord conversations is hardly an evidence of mass cheating epidemy.
I do know this tho. Rumours grow like a wildfire and accusations like this without hard evidence damage game a lot. I for an example refused to download CoD:Warzone because people say that it is infested with cheaters.

Rare has to make it so people can't just make infinite alts after they get banned. Let the cheaters cough up another 40 bucks after they have been caught. That along with better reporting system is very welcome addition to sea of thieves.

Happy sailing!

@gracie-grog6769 THANK YOU! Some of these defenders would deny a house fire.

@wolfmanbush

You mean to tell us the makers of cheats aren't trustworthy or concerned by any advertisement standards? Next you'll be telling us that often cheat makers sneak in malware into their software! /sarcasm

Seriously though, I wouldn't trust anything they do. They are also the ones you see going on forums with brand new accounts "complaining" about hacks and posting links to YouTube videos. The end goal is to increase the perception that it's more widespread than it is and lure more folks to the dark side.

One thing Rare could do to fight back against the propaganda is release stats from time to time showing how effectively they are fighting back. When it's not openly apparent how that fight is going, it leads to a lot of distrust that the system works. I know Rare likes to lead with positive outlook on the community but, sometimes, you have to be a bit more outspoken about the negatives and how they are dealing with them.

@wolfmanbush This isn't the first game to have exploiting issues and it won't be the last. It all boils down to if it will be addressed or suppressed. You seem to be in the "Everything is OK!" camp. Maybe you should just reply with that instead of malformed semantics.

@pumpa-cat
Funny you directly jumped on me concluding that I am ''bad'' even though previous posts I clearly posted me witnessing first hand of players using hacks on their screen (Sharing with me)
And those are the ones ADMITTING and WILLING to share it with me. I even SAID if anyone is interested in knowing what hacking looks like in SoT and why its undetectable to be reported, my Private messages are open. I have a folder literally filled with players using hacks in this game.

But hey. Where did I even mention about being bad, mad or sore for losing?
My posts had nothing in terms of malding about losing, it was purely off exposing how many players actual hack in this game, and people have their heads buried in the sand denying that.

Again go Youtube search (SoT TDM montage) and the first ten videos that come up 8/10 are using hacks (FoV, Soft Aimlocking) Mind you some of those videos are uploaded recently, and not years back.

So clearly their anti cheat isn't working...

People have to stop this pathetic argument of ''well We NeEd StATiSTIcaL NuMBeRs of HoW maNy PlaYErs aRE aCTuALly ChEAtinG'' yeh great, are we some type of Employee that have access to servers and the banning data base?
Or should I spend every living hour of my life asking every player in game that I come across if they use some form of cheats?
Its such a bad argument because its unrealistic and an easy card to pull out for a lazy debate.
I could easily counter with a braindead argument saying WHO ISN'T using some type of hacks these days?

@RealStyli

One thing Rare could do to fight back against the propaganda is release stats from time to time showing how effectively they are fighting back. When it's not openly apparent how that fight is going, it leads to a lot of distrust that the system works. I know Rare likes to lead with positive outlook on the community but, sometimes, you have to be a bit more outspoken about the negatives and how they are dealing with them.

That is being hugely optimistic, knowing basics about the hacks that a lot of players use, I bet not even RARE know the stats, Evidence that I know some players that are still ban free even if they used or currently are using hacks such as ESP. UNDETECTED BTW if you use the free version and don't abuse the more obvious ones in public.

You know whos doing most of the work in getting hackers banned? The players doing the reporting with evidence, not the anti cheat...

@PapaTankers2041

Rare has to make it so people can't just make infinite alts after they get banned. Let the cheaters cough up another 40 bucks after they have been caught. That along with better reporting system is very welcome addition to sea of thieves.

well said, which your above point in your post before this comment is why people don't bother to report hackers, takes MORE TIME to report hackers then it does for the hackers in question to make a fresh alt with a microsoft account. Their Steam accounts don't even get banned...

@ix-indi-xi

I bet not even RARE know the stats

I was referring to the stats of how many have been banned for cheating, which they would know. The only optimism in my post was the assumption Rare are winning the fight. Of course, if the number was too low it doesn't really help us to know if the cheats are getting away with it, or the issue isn't as big as it's made out.

We've discussed, at length, in the past on the effectiveness of Azure's anti-cheat AI. It has a lot of benefits but the biggest negative is that it's reactive and not proactive. Which means action isn't taken until an action is deemed to be cheating. This also means players often assume cheaters are getting away with it, even when they are not.

However, I shared my thoughts on the positives of server side cheat detection, and why client side solutions are becoming more and more invasive, whilst becoming less and less effective here.

You know whos doing most of the work in getting hackers banned? The players doing the reporting with evidence, not the anti cheat...

That is somewhat correct. Just like other machine learning technologies (DLSS, art generation, voice replication), the behavioral analysis AI needs to be trained, and the technology is still relatively new. But, the more information that it's fed on, the better it will become and the quicker it will find offenders.

@wolfmanbush Nothing can destroy a community quicker than Developers ignoring exploiting issues. I've witnessed this firsthand on PUBG as well as other titles. As a forum captain you are well aware that Witch hunts, and call-outs are not allowed on the forum, so I find it perplexing that you keep calling for evidence and proof, when that would be forwarded to Rare or Microsoft. You have spoken of the negative effects of "accusations of mass cheating"on a community. How about the negative undercurrent created by implying or outright calling anyone who brings up cheating and exploiting a liar? I will reiterate again, that unaddressed exploiting can EMPTY and kill an MMO. So perhaps think deeply before dismissing in such a matter of fact fashion anyone who speaks up.

@pumpa-cat I like your philosophy. Always an opportunity to train!