Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous

Okie so will add the power to kick people from any ship time.

Next time you join another ship, will kick you right before we turn loot in, because my friend wants to get on. Just saying.

@viker6886 said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

Man I looooove being hostage to a griefer with my only option is exiting the game session I STARTED wow. Truly the open crew experience

You're using Open Crew to make progress in the game. That is poor decision making that I'm sure you're beginning to learn is not the ideal way to play Open Crew.

You want people to sail with? Get social! There's an Official Discord, Xbox LFG posts and other social media websites that may offer you a crew member that knows as much as you!

@viker6886 said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

@foambreaker If you think this situation would be more common than joining griefers then I don't know what to tell you.
The very reason I've started this thread is that I had 3 griefers in my 5-hour open crew session today. Might as well delete the option for open crew on sloops if you don't have any control over your crew.

There is no thinking that it would happen, people have proven they are willing to do it on larger ships that allow you to brig crew members, theres no doubt that people would do it on the sloop as well, not everyone, but enough to make it into a serious problem as well. We dont need a kick option, we need a total overhaul of how open crew recruiting works.

If you want to crew with random people, there are dozens of supported discords from partners that allow for recruitment and you are far less likely to run into trolls in those servers than open crew.

When your idea creates as much opportunity for griefing as it resolves, it makes it a bad idea. Pretty narrow minded and somewhat selfish that you're only considering the personal impact for your gameplay. That's not how devs implement changes thankfully

@scheneighnay said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

It's an obvious solution, something the forum community hates.

Its an obvious solution, but obvious does not mean simple or good. People should not have the right or power to deny a crewmate something they worked for just because the hosts friend came online. Can you say honestly that you would not get mad if you just completed a fof or found your first shrouded, and you just suddenly got kicked? Its hard for me to get angry, but that would be absolutely beyond upsetting past some troll.

@scheneighnay said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

@goldsmen said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

@scheneighnay said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

It's an obvious solution, something the forum community hates.

Its an obvious solution, but obvious does not mean simple or good. People should not have the right or power to deny a crewmate something they worked for just because the hosts friend came online. Can you say honestly that you would not get mad if you just completed a fof or found your first shrouded, and you just suddenly got kicked? Its hard for me to get angry, but that would be absolutely beyond upsetting past some troll.

First, nobody is going to be just waiting, not doing anything, for you to get ready to sell. You would get kicked way before that ever happens.

Second, stop trying to use a one-in-500-hours event as a make or break "what if" scenario, it's not going to happen.

Third, it's still a step up from open crew being completely unplayable due to trolls.

Obvious solution is to quit the session where your open crew crewmate is a troll.

@scheneighnay said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

@goldsmen said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

@scheneighnay said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

It's an obvious solution, something the forum community hates.

Its an obvious solution, but obvious does not mean simple or good. People should not have the right or power to deny a crewmate something they worked for just because the hosts friend came online. Can you say honestly that you would not get mad if you just completed a fof or found your first shrouded, and you just suddenly got kicked? Its hard for me to get angry, but that would be absolutely beyond upsetting past some troll.

First, nobody is going to be just waiting, not doing anything, for you to get ready to sell. You would get kicked way before that ever happens.

Second, stop trying to use a one-in-500-hours event as a make or break "what if" scenario, it's not going to happen.

Third, it's still a step up from open crew being completely unplayable due to trolls.

Its not a case of waiting until sell, but someone could get a message from their friend, and they just say "oh! sure! let me kick this person!". As for a 1 in 500 hour event, i have seen a hand full of people get brigged to try and force them to quit. Nor is it action that is exclusive to sea of thieves, i have been kicked out of a few matches on tf2 and left 4 dead for absolutely no reason, and one case was half way through a match and the group flat out said they were kicking me so a friend could join. Its not a sot issue, its a player controlled kick issue.

I do entirely agree that trolling is its self a problem, but anything that can be abused in any such way just isnt the right solution to me. Open crew needs a total overhaul and possibly a recruiting chat to help find a crew with common interests. Trolls could use it but usually trolls dont care to do anything that takes a recruitment process to join, if they did, they would probably be more common in partnered discords.

Kick Feature: YES, DEFINITLY

The only argument against it is: "Kick anyone anytime is bad, boohoo"

To this I can only say: Implement the feature in a proper fashion:

• Allow Captain to kick people who are less then 10 Minutes on the ship
• DONT Allow Captain to kick anyone who is on the ship for more then 10 Minutes, EXEPT: Person is brigged or Person is sabotaging (attacking crewmates/attacking ship multiple times)

There, solved it, the argument of "Kick feature gets abused" does not hold up one honest thought

@viker6886 said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

I am copying an answer from steam forum.

As a point of reference, DRG, a game which by design is more likely to have people abusing host powers to troll because of the pve nature of the game, still give host's the ability to kick bothersome players.

And to avoid player abusing this to kick people at the end of a session, when the objectives are fullfilled, you can't kick people anymore, making sure everyone can reap the rewards.

There are so many systems that works, but you go and defend SOT horrible handling, like you and many vets have been doing for years, keeping the game's growth at a stalemate for years now.

SOT keeps adding content yet from the statistic, I see player counts slowly but surely dwindling and the same type of thread complaints popping up, because of issues that have been here for years.

And with the captaincy feature now, Rare wasn't even able to implement the most basic hosting functions under the excuse of "equity" when they know damn well this hurt honest players more and enables trolls even more than before.

A change of pace and trying something new wouldn't hurt the game, it's wounded and bleeding out, the worst that can happen to it's multiplayer handling is just staying exactly as it is.

Deep rock galactic is a totally different game with clear set goals to say when a mission is finished, but with sea of thieves, how exactly can you determine when a a voyage is finished? Is it when the quest is complete up until every item from the quest is done? What if the treasure is not specifically from any quests and was just picked up/stolen. Can it tell if something is from a world event or ghost fort, or would it keep you from kicking people if a meg or kraken is attacking?

With deep rock, the second the button for extraction is available its clear when a quest is done because that game has a clear set finishing point. Sot is a lot more vague and ambiguous to compare to drg for any such system, because if its set only for voyages then it excludes any treasure from world events or steals. If its based on treasure, then as long as any treasure is onboard then you cant kick a troll still. The two games are incomparable for this sake.

@goldsmen There are plenty of ways how the system could track wether kick option is available or not:

• time limit (to sort out people who only join to troll: Is not fun anymore if you have to wait 10-15 mins to troll or risk getting kicked right away)
• player behaviour (sabotage etc.)
• player contribution to treasure
• play time together
• nautical miles sailed together
• etc. etc. etc.

the game tracks almost everything. Plenty of ways to implement the feature. Plenty of ways to disable abuse, and sort out situations where people would abuse the kick system.

I see this as a Win-Win. Everyone has a much higher chance of getting ACTUAL teammates, Captain and Crewmembers alike, actual teammates, not just trolls and afks, as it works as an incentive for players to actually do something, and sabotaging players, afks, or trolls, are scared away by the knowledge they can get kicked with bad behaviour.

@parrotlord6426 can't brig on sloop, and there's ways other than attacking ship to troll people. Anchoring, throwing things overboard etc.

Just because you struggle to find one thought against an idea doesn't make it infallible

@hiradc never said my idea was infallible. But there are plenty of ways to counter abuse.

Ofc, we talk about the sloop here, sloop = no brig. But the rest of my ideas still apply. And those are only the few ideas I came up with kinda from the get go, no energy used in thought process here.
No system is perfect btw, but the main argument people have against the kick feature is the possible abuse by the host, and thats very easyly countered.
To answer to your points: Ofc you will probably not be able to shut down every single way of possible trolling. But thats not really an argument against my proposal, right?

@parrotlord6426 said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

@goldsmen There are plenty of ways how the system could track wether kick option is available or not:

• time limit (to sort out people who only join to troll: Is not fun anymore if you have to wait 10-15 mins to troll or risk getting kicked right away)
• player behaviour (sabotage etc.)
• player contribution to treasure
• play time together
• nautical miles sailed together
• etc. etc. etc.

the game tracks almost everything. Plenty of ways to implement the feature. Plenty of ways to disable abuse, and sort out situations where people would abuse the kick system.

I see this as a Win-Win. Everyone has a much higher chance of getting ACTUAL teammates, Captain and Crewmembers alike, actual teammates, not just trolls and afks, as it works as an incentive for players to actually do something, and sabotaging players, afks, or trolls, are scared away by the knowledge they can get kicked with bad behaviour.

I have seen your 10 minute timer and anti sabotage idea, but that comes with its own flaws. Namely that the main issue that comes from trolls isnt that they throw blunder bombs all over, usually they try to sabotage treasure. But simply throwing blunder and fire bombs at some one is their whole goal, then all they need to do is start their own ship and wait for new players to join. And how exactly would the game tell if you were say, checking for tuckers with blunders or trying to attack some one invading the ship? The game tracks a lot of things, but im not sure if thats exactly an easy thing to track. And all a troll has to do with a 10 minute timer in place, is wait out the timer.

As for treasure, if throwing treasure off the ship is grounds for kicking, then stashing treasure becomes its own grounds, so does putting it on a row boat and detaching it count as trolling even if the person is rowing treasure to port.

And now comes the one that is harder to measure... How is the game going to tell if the guy firing out every cannon ball is a troll, or actually trying to do something? How can it tell they are eating all of the food out of spite rather than for milestones?

The core problem with any kick system in this game is that this game has such deep, complex, and so many different systems that it would be impossible for automated "troll detection" systems to pick up everything that trolls do, and anything they would attempt to compensate for it.

@viker6886 said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

My main point is that ship captains (hosts) are much less likely to abuse this system for griefing since they are the ones that want to accomplish goals if they started their session as a host.

Except not every session goes that way. You can be a duo sloop and have your session ruined by running into kegs, getting predated on by an enemy brigantine, and having almost every threat spawn on you at the same time. People would get desperate to kick over a Shrouded Ghost encounter, people would kick over the pettiest of things. I bet there's some lowlife that would kick if your outfit is considered "trash" to them. The concept of robbing honest players from the work they've done as the captain of a crew is very much a possible thing, and most reasons players would want a kick feature outweigh the consequences of said feature.

I don't see people having a kick ability worse than being a hostage on your own sloop

In a perfect world, no one should have to deal with bad crewmates. This unfortunately, is the punishment of a game that's freely available for several purchase options, one of them being $1 for a single month, and a pure owning price of $40.

This is almost exclusively an issue with Open Crew, which is why most people in here are telling you the cons to such a system are why you should avoid it if your intentions for Open Crew are for mindlessly adding people to your boat. The matchmaking isn't going to give you someone who will automatically co-operate, unlike a Looking for Group/Crew post somewhere on social media apps. This is a social adventure game, not a mission type of game like Deep Rock Galactic.

@parrotlord6426 'there, solved it the argument of kick feature gets abused does not hold up one honest thought' I mean that sounds to me like you're claiming that

The only way i could see that being not abusable, is with the existence of an action tracker. That tracker could detect behaviors like inficting friendly damage, setting your ship on fire, etc., and in general most ways people grief sessions in open crew. Then if you do it too much the game kicks you out of the session. To give a brief idea of what i am talking about, in Chivalry 2 if you do to much damage to your teammates you get kicked out of the match.

IDK what's worse... giving someone ultimate power, or giving them no power.

I'm not sure what the correct solution is, but hopefully Rare is able to do something about Open Crew. It might as well not be an option on the sloop.

Not sure if Guilds will somehow incorporate an IN-GAME LFC/LFG type of function and some open crew filters...but Open crew is desperate for some love.

@gosva5434 and what if you want to send your friend to the ferry because his UI is bugged and that will fix it? What if you want to farm "on fire" ship milestones? You cant judge any action in sea of thieves as inherintly "griefing" or not. You would need GMs readily availible to judge for themselves everytime an action gets flagged. The only real solution to the initial problem is not to play open crew if you want to get stuff done. But if you want to have a (fun) wild ride, open crew is for you!

@goldsmen sagte in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

But simply throwing blunder and fire bombs at some one is their whole goal, then all they need to do is start their own ship and wait for new players to join.

But then if you join as an ordinary player and see him trolling - U can simply leave. There is no harm done.

And all a troll has to do with a 10 minute timer in place, is wait out the timer.

Well, yes, but I think opportunity makes trolls: If it gets to inconvenient to troll, people will spend their time on something else. It has to be a real dedicated troll to wait out 10-15 mins only to annoy someone afterwards.

And how exactly would the game tell if you were say, checking for tuckers with blunders or trying to attack some one invading the ship? The game tracks a lot of things, but im not sure if thats exactly an easy thing to track. And all a troll has to do with a 10 minute timer in place, is wait out the timer.

So just because the system is not perfect, you would rather not implement it at all? If it is, lets say, only 90% efficient, you would rather skip it entirelly than have that 90% eficiancy?
Ofc nothing would ever be 100% foolproof, but thats hardly an argument for not implementing it at all, is it.

As for treasure, if throwing treasure off the ship is grounds for kicking, then stashing treasure becomes its own grounds, so does putting it on a row boat and detaching it count as trolling even if the person is rowing treasure to port.

So skip the "treasure overboard throwing" from the troll-detecting factors if its hard to track (After all I didnt even use this one as troll measurment tool, someone else did). There are plenty of other ways to detect trolling, and ofc. we would never be able to detect 100% of trolling. But thats hardly an argument for not implementing it at all. Even if we only detect 80-90% of trolls it would be worth it. The only real argument against it is the "abuse of the host" argument, and that can be countered. So...

And now comes the one that is harder to measure... How is the game going to tell if the guy firing out every cannon ball is a troll, or actually trying to do something? How can it tell they are eating all of the food out of spite rather than for milestones?

Same argument, I would give same response.

The core problem with any kick system in this game is that this game has such deep, complex, and so many different systems that it would be impossible for automated "troll detection" systems to pick up everything that trolls do, and anything they would attempt to compensate for it.

Well, disagree. It would be impossible to detect 100% of trolls. But 80-90% ? Very plausible Imo.

@hiradc

@parrotlord6426 'there, solved it the argument of kick feature gets abused does not hold up one honest thought' I mean that sounds to me like you're claiming that

Well, I have not seen a good argument against my proposal yet ;) and this is the second threat about it. So....

@nex-stargaze

This is almost exclusively an issue with Open Crew

Agree. But, could we not have the kick feature for open queue solely? I mean, isnt it a ridiculous joke their is an entire matchmaking method, built for forever alone guys to find friends, and then its not usable because of toxicity, and noone wants to do anything about it? I dont like discord, I dont want to make friends, I dont want to talk too much. I simply want to play the game for a couple of hours with normal people. Then log off and enjoy my forvever alone time again.

@parrotlord6426 said in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

Agree. But, could we not have the kick feature for open queue solely? I mean, isnt it a ridiculous joke their is an entire matchmaking method, built for forever alone guys to find friends, and then its not usable because of toxicity, and noone wants to do anything about it?

There isn't much to be done about it. Once you learn what Open Crew is about, you know what you signed up for. You aren't requesting an AI NPC to manage your boat with you, you're requesting another player looking to join someone's crew to manage your boat with you, regardless of skill or intention.

I dont like discord, I dont want to make friends, I dont want to talk too much. I simply want to play the game for a couple of hours with normal people. Then log off and enjoy my forvever alone time again.

Then you are playing the wrong kind of game. Plain and simple. In Deep Rock Galactic I find it fun and simple to either start public sessions, or join in the middle of some missions. It works in that game's structure because it's heavily objective-based. Sea of Thieves is far from being objective-based. Like a sandbox, anything can happen, and plans change on a dime with not a damn thing punishing you for doing so.

If you want to manage your own boat without the need to socialize, then feel free to solo sloop. It's the toughest way to play in the game, but your interactions with people are at a pure minimum. We can't fix the game to fix the players. Understand that.

@nex-stargaze sagte in Not being able to kick people as a sloop captain is ridiculous:

There isn't much to be done about it. Once you learn what Open Crew is about, you know what you signed up for. You aren't requesting an AI NPC to manage your boat with you, you're requesting another player looking to join someone's crew to manage your boat with you, regardless of skill of intention

Well, We are not talking about different opinions on what to do here. We are talking about intentionally disruptive, disrespectful behaviour.
I would argue "what Open Crew is about" is something that formed out of a bad implementation of the system. This toxic trolly environment can hardly be the original intent though, as the pirate code clearly states:
Article #5: The Crew Bond is Sacred

Then you are playing the wrong kind of game. Plain and simple. In Deep Rock Galactic I find it fun and simple to either start public sessions, or join in the middle of some missions. It works in that game's structure because it's heavily objective-based. Sea of Thieves is far from being objective-based. Like a sandbox, anything can happen, and plans change on a dime with not a damn thing punishing you for doing so.

Why am I playing the wrong kind of game, when there is a casual gamemode ready for people like me. It just does not work as It should, thats the main issue. Hardly an argument to nicely tell me to [Mod Edit]

If you want to manage your own boat without the need to socialize, then feel free to solo sloop. It's the toughest way to play in the game, but your interactions with people are at a pure minimum. We can't fix the game to fix the players. Understand that.

Didnt say that. I want to socialise, but I dont want to spend time on discord to circumvent a deeply flawed system, when the system could be simply fixed. Thats the argument and the topic, I think you kinda went off trail here.

Look, if you dont want to use the open queue, thats fine for me. But why try to sabotage the intentions of other people who want to use it and want to look for ways to fix it? You did not post any solution yourself after all. You are only being disruptive and disrespectful right now.

We can't fix the game to fix the players. Understand that.

Every rule in the game is aimed precisely at fixing the game to fix players. When cheats are not allowed and disruptive behaviour or actions are reportable offenses, then thats exactly for that.
I dont think you thought about your comment here. You need to understand that.