Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@i-am-lost-77 When would you get the bonus? You'd have to turn in the loot to get it? Yes, I would oppose that, for obvious reasons.

You get on turn in. Yes, really wouldn't make sense on pick up and cant see another time to give it to them except turn in. Why? What reasons?

@entspeak the problem being addressed was balance.

Due to the nature of PvP i'm pretty sure its impossible to have them log out with something if they can't sink a ship. literally the only thing they need to do. If you can't finish a voyage you wont end up with anything either in the system proposed. You need to at least accomplish something to earn xp. If you choose to PvP you need to accomplish sinking a ship.

@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@entspeak you're misunderstanding the bonus. It isn't some multiplier. I get the voyage complete fanfare and then my rep bar ticks up like 10 percent of the ring.

Oh, I see. But you do realize that isn't what the suggestion is in it's current iteration. They are asking for 50% of the loot value for the entire voyage as a bonus. They weren't going to go for 10% of the loot value for a voyage, they're certainly not going to go for a mere 10% of a level's value.

It's an interesting idea, but as you level up, you need to do more voyages to gain levels and the chest/skulls become worth less reputation and, eventually, you'd get more reputation at Voyage Complete than you would turning in the loot for the voyage. Eventually, it would be more efficient to just do the tasks and leave the loot... at the higher levels, you'd level up faster and with less risk.

It doesn't have to remain a constant amount, if you think it's better to take more voyages at higher levels, it can. Or the voyages do get longer, suddenly you're doing 5 islands for part 1 of a voyage. I know last time I did just a single 25 voyage I did about 10 maps for like 2 hours, so it wouldn't really be unfair for it to be constant. People who want some weird percent of whatever the loot is worth are pushing dumb ideas. First and foremost because the game doesn't know what loot you're getting for a voyage, it just spawns random chests. Also, it being worth more to you on turn in is just weird and unintuitive, it kinda sucks the way it works for merchant's alliance.

Also, when did this bonus talk start? I thought the idea was just get some xp when you complete the voyage, or possibly also a smidge when you do stuff like dig up the chest or kill a skeleton or whatever other tasks.

@graiis it’s a bonus compared to the current game design

The 50% is being used as a rough example some people are taking it as set in stone.

You spend 2 hours collecting and sailing around. Then a Gallon shows up or someone magically appears on your ship and boom you loose everything you worked on. No rep and no money. At least give me some rep when you find something. Some bonus for finding things or something.

Money for killing Pirates or sinking ships. A small amount I can go with but larger I think would make things worse.

On a personal note. I hate the sound of eating bananas

@lotrmith You call that a page? 3 paragraphs and a couple of sentences? Dodge, dodge, dodge. Keep going.

1. It won't affect balance (that's dependent on ship number not what a player decides to do)
2. This suggestion would affect PvP positively
3. ... I'll stop here just in case you get 'bored of reading'. (i.e. are just going to dodge).

@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

If it is on turn in for either party I don't see it changing anything. If the guy who digs it up gets the bonus right away and the guy who steals gets the equivalent on turn in then it is ripe for exploitation.

So, no, actually. I also don't see the need for a PvE bonus in the first place. The game already heavily favors PvE and the balance is extremely delicate. I don't see the need for a bonus anywhere.

How could it be exploited? Go.

@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

Oh, I see. But you do realize that isn't what the suggestion is in it's current iteration. They are asking for 50% of the loot value for the entire voyage as a bonus. They weren't going to go for 10% of the loot value for a voyage, they're certainly not going to go for a mere 10% of a level's value.

It's an interesting idea, but as you level up, you need to do more voyages to gain levels and the chest/skulls become worth less reputation and, eventually, you'd get more reputation at Voyage Complete than you would turning in the loot for the voyage. Eventually, it would be more efficient to just do the tasks and leave the loot... at the higher levels, you'd level up faster and with less risk.

Incorrect. As I have TOLD you. The quantity itself also has varied opinions on this thread, thus you should not get too worried about the quantity and be discussing the concept. If needs be suggest a quantity which would work for you, and why that would be appropriate. For heavens sake if you are going to debate this at least understand the discussion please.

@I-Am-Lost-77 @TouchDown1504
At this point I wonder whether we should just ignore lotrsmith till he gets bored and finds another thread to troll on. When we come up with valid points he just dodges them. He dodged me 'ohh your 3 paragraphs are too long cba to read' and he dodged touchdown when he asked for evidence of what he was saying 'ohhh did I touch a nerve?'

The moment we provide strong arguments for our case or ask something from him which he is unable to answer, he acts immaturely and dodges. There is nothing wrong with discussing with people who disagree but when people are too close-minded and making completely ill-thought out arguments (this game is balanced.. I think I might stick that on my wall as a poster so I can have a laugh every time I see it..) nothing constructive can come of it.

Obviously it's up to you guys but... he dodged my posts, and while I was catching up with this thread I saw him dodge touchdowns question for proof on his 3 wolves vs 200 rabbits claim or whatever it was. We are just wasting our time. I'm not going to reply to him anymore unless he begins to talk constructively which is unlikely.

It would be great if we could discuss this idea with some fresh faces.

@savagetwinky said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

It's giving players something worth protecting wich just means dodging other players. Handing out participation rewards doesn't mean people will fight, they already abandon small amounts of loot because it's inefficient to fight and server swap.

The problem with loot is people put too much emphasis on actually needing it. The game doesn't unlock anything truly valuable and it throws loot at players so it's always possible to level up in some way.

Yes, it is, but players WILL have something worth protecting with this suggestion too, that's why it is important we still make the loot more valuable than any bonus XP which is given. We are well aware of the importance of this to keep the core aspect of the game.

I'm not saying it's guaranteed everyone will want to fight, what I am saying is that several people in this thread (myself included) have admitted that we would be FAR more up for taking a risk at returning fire on an attacker, or gaining additional loot with loot on our ship (by attacking another player) if we weren't at risk of walking away with 0. At the moment there is simply too much at stake so we would rather flee - which literally discourages PvP interaction. The vast majority of ships containing loot don't want a stand off, or confrontation, they just want to flee and protect what is theirs.

If people abandon loot currently, that is a separate issue, yes this idea won't change that, but that's irrelevant. There is already an issue with players rerolling quests constantly until they get the gold pig, or loads of skeletons, or lots of chests, that's a different topic altogether and not what this thread is here to address.

The loot is literally the main aspect of the game, whether you are doing PvE, PvP, or whatever, loot is the only item we collect and return for our rewards so it's not surprising it is also the source of much negativity and lots of players want it :P

@hawk21031991 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

I wouldn't mind extra xp for specific voyages you do before handing in your goodies, just the RNG can be a pain in the **s sometimes as i've experienced this morning, i had a 5 stage gold hoarder voyage 45+ rep one, the 30chests i had to dug up were only castaway's and seafairer one's, this can be very fustrating even if you'd lose it, i wouldn't mind at some point, i suppose when you'd be carrying 30 captains or grog/sorrow's you might want extra rewards incase you'd lose something.

Was also discussing this on another thread. I don't think there is anything wrong with finding castaways and seafarers at later quests, but I think there needs to be less likelihood of it. At low level GH you should find lots of castaways and seafarers, but as you level up GH you should lower your probability of finding them and increase the probability of finding better chests. But anyway a different suggestion :)

Well.. I don't think anyone would be silly enough to carry 30 captains :P even if this suggestion was implemented it would still be pretty careless to carry that much :P The bonus is literally going to be a % of whatever chests you gain, I don't think it should be a static figure? But the exact quantity is not 100%, we would however like some form of bonus on 'voyage complete'.

@dreadpirate9200 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@enpixelate I feel where your coming from, but I think you may have gone too far the other way. You shouldn't get the same amount of XP if you loose the loot.

I do agree that you should get XP like normal for handing in booty, but maybe an additional bit of XP for finishing the contract would be a nice compromise. Extra reputation wouldn't go a miss anyway, as its already quite a grind to level up.

Love the idea enpixelate, see you on the seas.

I agree with this. Please be aware that the exact quantity is up for debate :) Personally I think something like.. 100% loot rep/gold on hand in at an outpost, 50% rep bonus on voyage complete, is much more feasible. The loot has GOT to be associated with rep otherwise it removes too much risk from losing it, which defeats the core principle of the game.

@solidmustangp51 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

You spend 2 hours collecting and sailing around. Then a Gallon shows up or someone magically appears on your ship and boom you loose everything you worked on. No rep and no money. At least give me some rep when you find something. Some bonus for finding things or something.

Money for killing Pirates or sinking ships. A small amount I can go with but larger I think would make things worse.

On a personal note. I hate the sound of eating bananas

Exactly! That's all we are after! If a galleon or whoever successfully steals our loot, more power to them, enjoy your loot, but at least we will have something for putting the work in to locate and dig up the loot etc.

I think it needs to be big enough to be meaningful, but the loot itself needs to be more valuable! The primary aspect of the game still needs to be 'defend your loot from thieves', but this can easily be accomplished while still providing a nice bonus rep when discovering the loot :)

@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

Also, when did this bonus talk start? I thought the idea was just get some xp when you complete the voyage, or possibly also a smidge when you do stuff like dig up the chest or kill a skeleton or whatever other tasks.

It started quite early on, I think partly when I joined the thread a long while ago. The initial idea was for all exp on voyage complete, all gold on outpost hand in, thus the loot is not actually associated with rep.

The OP still agrees with this.. but I am COMPLETELY against it. The loot has GOT to be associated with some rep, otherwise it removes too much risk from losing it, people who are only interested in rep aren't going to care too much about losing it, and everyone needs incentive to defend their loot. Moreover if the loot is stolen why should the people who stole it not receive rep? That's how the bonus suggestion started. We are sort of hovering around a suggestion of 100% rep/gold on hand in, 50% rep bonus on voyage complete, but this figure is not set in stone, and if you have any feelings about the exact value by all means share :)

Oh and the reason we changed to voyage complete rather than digging up, killing etc... is because we thought it would be way easier to program rather than programming individual tasks to reward rep.

@savagetwinky said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@urihamrayne .... If the game encourages a player to run away because they want to protect what is theirs, then yes, the game is discouraging PvP. It is built in such a way that it makes people WANT to make a decision such as running or disengaging from a fight, it is discouragement. Ok, it is indirect discouragement, but it is still discouraging people from participating in PvP.... I am not trolling lol, how hard is that to understand?

Do you HONESTLY think if someone has dug up 4 chests, and has 2 skulls, they're going to think OH GOODIE! A SHIP ON THE HORIZON! LETS GO AND ATTACK IT! ALTHOUGH IF WE LOSE THE FIGHT AND HAVE OUR STUFF STOLEN WE WON'T GET ANYTHING FROM THE LAST 2 HOURS WE SPENT DOING THE VOYAGE! OH WELL!...

It's giving players something worth protecting wich just means dodging other players. Handing out participation rewards doesn't mean people will fight, they already abandon small amounts of loot because it's inefficient to fight and server swap.

The problem with loot is people put too much emphasis on actually needing it. The game doesn't unlock anything truly valuable and it throws loot at players so it's always possible to level up in some way.

I do not put too much emphasis on actually needing my loot. I put great value on the work I put into getting it!! This is the thing I think most PvP players that I've read on these forums don't seem to understand or respect.

I put the work in. I fought the waves of skellies. I solved the riddle to dig up the chest. I spent time and effort doing those things and I didn't do it so a PvP player can come along and be rewarded for my work. I will do everything in my power to keep that reward out of their hands even (especially) if I lose everything.

If you want more loot out of PvP and more players willing to fight you to keep it, you should value the work they put in to getting. I'm sorry if those wanting to benefit from my work are unhappy that I've run into the red and taken anything of value with me, but it is worth it to me to take it to my grave.

@angrycoconut16 I mean I know it’s pretty pointless. Not sure if you saw it or not but to fix their “balance” complaint I offered a equivalent xp boost on stolen chests being turned in. The response was this could be “exploitable” which was a laugh due to the highly unlikely chance of 2 crews “swapping chests” as he put it. You can barely get close to another boat without getting shot at now you think people will just be swapping chests lol. The other response was PvP could still log out with nothing. They literally just argue to argue so yea i thinks it’s best to not engage with them anymore, they just argue to argue Bc they like seeing people suffer and never come back to SoT.

@i-am-lost-77 Yep, saw that. This is what I mean, they aren't open to compromise, they just want to shut down other peoples ideas. All they are doing is asking questions (many of which are stupid and ill-thought out by themselves) and ignoring answers which get them to consider that this might actually be a viable idea. On top of that they don't want to suggest ways to alter this idea, or suggest how they'd be happy with it.. their attitude is literally 'Nope, like the game the way it is, go away, it can't get better'. I am also a bit tired of people coming and saying 'well this will make this issue worse'.. if something is already an issue, that is for another thread, we are trying to solve ONE of many issues in the game, there are plenty of ways the game can grow and become something truly amazing, we are just trying to address ONE of those aspects. They also don't see how many PvE players WANT to PvP too, it's just the system is too punishing at the moment...

@angrycoconut16 @entspeak I see. Yeah I suggested on voyage complete a while ago and people were also throwing around for small tasks. 50 percent of the loot you got? I think that's not only probably also really hard to implement, since I'm sure the game doesn't track what you get, but too high. It should just be a percent of your level, as long as you're doing voyages of your rank. They'd probly have to limit it to 10-20 percent max so low levels can't just have a 50 get them like a million rep in one 50 voyage. And I know the values can be tweaked, but I tend to think they should start low. Once it's in the game they can see if it has an effect.

@graiis I like your based on level idea. I think combined with being based on number of islands visited the exact % doesn’t matter as much as a good idea for how it is to be gained. I’m not a fan of xp before voyage complete Bc one of the things I like about this idea is the incentive it creates to finish a voyage.

@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@angrycoconut16 @entspeak I see. Yeah I suggested on voyage complete a while ago and people were also throwing around for small tasks. 50 percent of the loot you got? I think that's not only probably also really hard to implement, since I'm sure the game doesn't track what you get, but too high. It should just be a percent of your level, as long as you're doing voyages of your rank. They'd probly have to limit it to 10-20 percent max so low levels can't just have a 50 get them like a million rep in one 50 voyage. And I know the values can be tweaked, but I tend to think they should start low. Once it's in the game they can see if it has an effect.

Well a % of your level could be higher too depending on what level you were don't forget :P At a low level it isn't much at a high level that could be MORE than what we are suggesting.

I don't believe it would be too difficult to attach some rep gain to voyage complete, but I do agree, perhaps making it a value determined by the exact chests/skulls which are found would be difficult... if that's the case then a flat value is also fine. Perhaps it could be a flat value for each player? And this could be a % based on THEIR individual level? If this was the case I agree 50% is too big... but it needs to be big enough to give people a decent reward so they feel better about fighting, and don't go through such a deflating experience when they do lose.. at the same time you don't want it too big so that the chest loses too much value. I dunno, I also kinda dislike the idea of having a %, I'd rather it was just a value like the chests have... not sure off the top of my head how else it could be implemented. I mean the game could keep track of the loot you have found and award you some rep on VC I'm sure? At the end of the day I'm not a programmer so I have no idea what the best solution would be, if Rare was to act on this thread I'm sure they could come up with something.

@angrycoconut16 I think the optimal system would be a base value on a per island basis. So for example: every island you have to visit in a quest will give you xp equal to a marauders chest when voyage is complete. A voyages difficulty is based on length so this is likely the best way to scale it. Additionally to balance out for higher levels, whatever your current promotion level is will give you a multiplier. So a level 5 might get a 1x multiplier a level 10 might get a 2x multiplier and so on.

@i-am-lost-77 That's a really good idea, but what about for instance, comparing a GH quest which wants you to dig up 2 chests on one island, vs one which wants you to dig up 4/5 still on one island. It takes longer too (and I had one chest which was very hard to find the location of the other week as there were so many trees! xD)

Love the idea of the multiplier though - because there isn't a massive amount of incentive to upgrade your voyages at the moment :P

@angrycoconut16 the reward is you have 5 chests instead of 2

more chests per islands grants higher profit on turn in

more islands grants more guaranteed reward for time invested if attacked

@i-am-lost-77 Fair enough, and to be honest I'm usually with others as well so 5 chests won't take a huge amount longer compared to sailing to a whole other island... yea this is a decent idea too :) The important thing is the make the rep gain substantial enough to have the effect we all want though. Something hovering around the 50% mark for the average sort of loot you'd find on one voyage at a particular voyage faction level.... that way you will still get double the rep gain from your loot (or more) and gold, unless you were truly unlucky, in which case your loot rep would only be a bit higher than your 50%... if they were all seafarers.. but as far as I'm concerned that's a different issue anyway, lots of people have been complaining about still finding sea farers at high levels for instance.