@drunkpunk138 a number I've thrown around is 10 percent of whatever level you are at per voyage. If you do 500 voyages for a faction, approximately 150 to 250 hours, per faction to get to 50? Be my guest if you want to do just voyage completions, but the chunk you see each finish would still be way more encouraging than the sliver for a castaway chest.
Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal
@drunkpunk138 well my perspective is say a marauders chest worth of xp for each island you visit during the quest. So if you have 1 island with 3 chests it wouldnt be as valuable as say 3 islands with 1 chest each. However it requires you actually do all the islands for the reward. I’ve always viewed PvP as more for fun than for xp/gold gain. However that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be a way to earn a decent amount of xp and gold which is why I now support leaving the loot values currently alone.
My biggest support for PvP is its own faction. Of which I need to make a detailed post about because none of the current ones I have seen quite nail it
@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@drunkpunk138 a number I've thrown around is 10 percent of whatever level you are at per voyage. If you do 500 voyages for a faction, approximately 150 to 250 hours, per faction to get to 50? Be my guest if you want to do just voyage completions, but the chunk you see each finish would still be way more encouraging than the sliver for a castaway chest.
That becomes really abusable, though. Just keep gold hoarders at level 1, and keep buying those one stop voyages, bam 500 done in record time. I agree with your previous comment, though, the numbers would be best determined by Rare as they have the data to see how impactful it would be.
That becomes really abusable, though. Just keep gold hoarders at level 1, and keep buying those one stop voyages, bam 500 done in record time. I agree with your previous comment, though, the numbers would be best determined by Rare as they have the data to see how impactful it would be.
But you can’t keep it at lvl 1? You lvl up. And leveling up would give you more. Not sure you understood
@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
That becomes really abusable, though. Just keep gold hoarders at level 1, and keep buying those one stop voyages, bam 500 done in record time. I agree with your previous comment, though, the numbers would be best determined by Rare as they have the data to see how impactful it would be.
But you can’t keep it at lvl 1? You lvl up and leveling up would give you more? Not sure you understood
Eh I haven't leveled up my gold hoarders in forever (currently at level 35) and I can still buy voyages. Did that recently change where you are forced to pay for the upgrades to get more?
@drunkpunk138 nah, cause they just wouldn't up your reward, the levels get exponentially higher every 5, but linear in between, so you'd have to complete the harder voyages for the 10 percent at your level, 10 percent of a level 1 is like a quarter castaway. Gotta get those promotions! :D
Maybe revamping the Mission/chest/money system might be in order.
(Brainstorming here without reading the other 866 posts...)
Create a new faction with its own special gear; "Seafarers" or the like that you progress in just by playing the game. You are sent on a mission for an item, which might be accompanied with gold. Get [Seafarers] XP for finding it. Turn in the item for XP in the specific faction. And have a way to bank your gold (Similar to GTA5).@urihamrayne said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@touchdown1504 "What is the issue?"
This is not an idea born out of a desire to improve the game for broader audiences, this thread was make because OP got killed and felt like he should have earned gold and xp. Most people defending it are equality guilty, there is no desire to make things better for everyone, its just "my experience, my gold, I earned it". I am here to highlight how meaningless numbers are, we should not focus on them, there are a bunch of threads that get ignored with brilliant ideas, great feedback highlighting flaws and strenghts of the game. This thread is not one of them, I had to come here explain people that they lack objectivity, the stuff they want isn't going to be improvements for the game, it's just change for the sake of it. There is already a working system that is very flavourful for the game that doesn't need to be changed in it's core fundamentals, it needs to be balanced. That is what people are ignoring here, the op suggestion isn't about balancing, it's about giving players a lessened blow when they get sunk.
You make an awful lot of assumptions here. I can't speak for everyone, I can speak for myself and my kids that play. I don't find it fun or entertaining (neither do the kids) to log out after an hour long session empty handed. With that said, that is what sparked my curiosity on this thread.
How does rewarding experience detract from the core of the game? I mean to say, experience for the experience, i.e. kill a skeleton boss, defeat the Kraken, solve a riddle, so on and so forth. What does any of that detract from?
Now, I see "Repuatation" for what it is, experience points wrapped up in a clever name. Some posters see reputation as ...well reputation. In that case, I am curious, would a pirate who just turned in 4 chickens have a better reputation then say the captain of the crew that just beat the Kraken? I will leave it at that, because it is absolutely ridiculous.
You addressed the question "What is the issue?" Yet, you never really answered it. You said folks here lack "objectivity", you voiced your opinion on the worth of numbers, then you claimed this would not be an improvement. But never said why...objectivity? Just sayin'. What would it break? What would be so terrible about being rewarded experience, for as I said..the experience? It does not affect the game negatively, as a matter of fact, I strongly believe it would improve the game in many areas (as detailed in several posts likely 100s of posts back, feel free to look them up)
To be fair, I agree, there is a lot of balancing needed. The entire rewards system seems borked in my eyes. It doesn't scale in a manner one would expect with promotions. The randomness of loot items makes almost no sense at all, the MA voyages, don't get me going there. I also agree, there are tons of threads that have incredible ideas, that are buried. But, this thread isn't buried...why?
@touchdown1504
I may need to be more clear, let me be cristal.
This thread is irrelevant to the disscussion about this game's strenghts and weakenesses, it was born out of player frustration and lack of insight. It doesn't deserve attention nor praise, it is pushing threads with more important topics down the further back pages of this forum, if any good suggestion was made here, was already discussed elsewhere, where it belongs, because this thread is worthless.What I said was there was pretty simple to understand, I don't know why do I have to keep repeating myself. In regards to giving experience before returning items: experience in this game is more literal that people think, it is about the emergent gameplay, if voyages themselves don't feel rewarding it is a problem with how they were balanced across different ranks, not due to players failing to complete them, don't incorrectly correlate this. the main focus of future patches should be to decrease the huge difficulty spike that begins once you reach higher levels, there are a number of ways of doing that, giving exp during voyages would only cater to those that don't want to experience complete loss every once in a while (which let's be frank, its not every session and every mission that you get sunk and lose loot, generalizing statements with exaggerations like "I always get" or "I never get" doesn't really help anyone) meanwhile adding more ranks of loot, increasing diversity of missions, aka making missions more engaging, is the main thing that should be driving the discussion here.
Someone's hurt feeling over virtual numbers is not my concern.
@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
What if they didn’t change loot values at all and instead just gave a massive xp boost at the end of a voyage regardless of the loot found. This system has no negative consequences on pvp at all. Literally nothing changes from a PvP perspective. Are you against that?
This removes another core aspect of the design - "all the rewards are physical." Of course, it's true that you do gain reputation from commendations, but the majority of them relate to delivery, and the reputation given is insignificant compared to what you need to do in order to get it. If, essentially, all the rewards are intended to be tied up in the physical, all the rewards are intended to be put at risk of loss... except - and this is where the devs struck their balance with regard to other types of games with "cripplingly low" lows, you keep what you've already earned.
@urihamrayne Well...you were anything but "Cristal". That may be my fault and I apologize. I think you and I are arguing two entirely different things.
You seem to be downing the merits of the discussion itself. Not the reason why the game mechanic is a bad idea. Where as I am not even attempting to defend the discussion, I am championing the mechanic. Easy to see where your confusion is. My bad. Lets rectify the situation.
I am a bit confused. If the thread is worthless, yet you are here... If there are great ideas that can be floated to the top...But you are floating this one instead...Never mind, lets just chalk that up to irony.
I do agree on a great many of your points in the final paragraph. The game is emergent, open world, make your own fun, imagination! No qualms about that at all. I love the game, it is a ton of fun. Except for when it's not. I also agree on the balance issues (if we are indeed discussing the same issues) I also agree, logging out with zero progression is not every session for every player, far from it I am sure. That does not change the fact that logging out with zero progression does happen, and it isn't fun. My belief is fun should be the core of the core of any game.
Now, is the OP's idea perfect? No, that is why this thread is approaching 900 posts. It is interesting, and people have been discussing it, evolving it, debating it. I would say that makes the thread far from worthless...but like your opinion, it is just my opinion, and we know what an opinion is worth.
Finally, forgive me I am confused yet again, if someone's hurt feelings over virtual numbers are not your concern...why are you still here discussing it? Why aren't you supporting all of those good ideas that are so good they get buried five minutes after the initial post? Help them!
Diversity of missions is coming according to that road map development video from last week. Weekly content starting after May, so on and so forth. I am willing to bet my bottom dollar lots of balance tweaks, and QOL fixes are on the way as well.
@touchdown1504
"Why aren't you supporting all of those good ideas that are so good they get buried five minutes after the initial post? Help them!"You can probably find me replying to multiple threads, despite hating this one, I'm here to make a point, my first reply to this thread should have been my last, but I wanted to make a few more bottom lines, which weren't necessary, but don't regret them.
I am very cranky, but I'm also optimistic, I share your sentiment for a better game in the future, but I hope to never see op's mechanic see the light of day.
@urihamrayne See, we are both fighting the good fight! Just different approaches. I doubt the OP's original idea will see the light of day. But that is the beauty of this conversation. It is filled with ideas, and somewhere in there is an idea that is doable. I can't lie to you, I would like to see experience awarded for doing things...Skellie kill, kraken, you've read it all already. That does not hurt anything, it makes getting to PL faster (unless they tweak the XP numbers!)...who cares? The first already happened. Does it matter?
Look bro, no hard feelings toward ya'. Get off the crank and smile a little. Its just a game in the long run...and it should be FUN for everyone. SoT is not going to be the next big E-Sports Professional title (you would think teams are already getting sponsors the way people argue in the forums)! It is supposed to just be silly fun for goofing off with a few friends and family...so if something makes it that much more fun, I am behind it! Lets go get some of those other ideas the support they need!
@entspeak well that’s finally an actually a counter argument. Imo I don’t think that “all rewards are physical” is core aspect of the gameplay. If that’s what Rare thinks then so be it but I think it’s like this Bc all the quests were designed as fetch quests. I think it's highly likely rewards will be earned without the need to bring it back to a merchant. As for your last point all games save progress in one way or another. It could be checkpoints or xp levels whatever. Just because you had 10 successful sessions before it doesn’t remove the low low feeling you get after an hour of wasted progress and SoT defiantly doesn’t balance it at all: it’s all or nothing. And people remember that low a lot longer then a given high.
@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
As for your last point all games save progress in one way or another. It could be checkpoints or xp levels whatever. Just because you had 10 successful sessions before it doesn’t remove the low low feeling you get after an hour of wasted progress and SoT defiantly doesn’t balance it at all: it’s all or nothing. And people remember that low a lot longer then a given high.
No, all games do not save progress in one way or another. The open world games they researched when it came to the type of "drama" the devs wanted for this game do not. As they stated, "All that paranoia is what leads to the drama, that 'high high.' To have that 'high high' you've got to have the 'low low.'" Does that sound like a "fun, casual pirate adventure" or "silly fun for goofing off with a few friends and family?"
The balance they wanted to strike when it comes to that "low low" is that they don't want the player to go completely back to day one, as they do in those other games they mention that don't save progress - and in SoT, you don't go completely back to day one. The merchants are the checkpoints, in a way... a form of "save station."
@foxdodge Well.. it's a sea of thieves, so... even if there are no other games that are like this, that's what this game is.
Of course, it depends on what you consider progress. In other games, people can steal your stuff... there is no "experience" other than the time you invested in gathering the stuff you have... that stuff is all you have. In DayZ and Rust (the two games the devs mention when it comes to the type of "drama" they wanted to create for this game), people can steal all of it and put you back at day one.
@foxdodge No. As someone who has played the games they mention - as well as some other infinitely more grindy games where you can spend months building up only to end up back at zero, I can say that this is definitely not harsh. It is also not a fun, casual pirate adventure providing silly fun for goofing off with a few friends and family. It’s something in between.
Not to say you can’t goof off and just have silly fun - it’s an open world game, after all. But that’s not the devs’ vision for the game.
@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
Not to say you can’t goof off and just have silly fun - it’s an open world game, after all. But that’s not the devs’ vision for the game.
Its not? So, what is the "Devs Vision" for this game? Could of sworn it was marketed as goofing off and having fun, making friends, so on so forth. Was I wrong?
@foxdodge said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
As it stands at the moment, people can literally steal other peoples experience. I can't think of another game where that's possible.
By the way, I would upvote this a million times if I could. Perfect summary of it all.
Reputation is not a physical thing, neither is the experience of doing. Losing reputation makes no sense at all when you have done something...anything that is entailed with a voyage. Someone taking your loot also gains the reputation from the adventure you were on while obtaining the loot? One sentence and you summed up the argument, thanks!
@drunkpunk138 Uh what? There are plenty of comparisons and analogies you can pull from.
- Take the "good Samaritan" angle. A woman has her cat stuck in a tree. She says she will give me a reward if I get her down. I get the cat down, and being the nice guy that I am, turn down said reward. The neighborhood knows that I am a good guy and my REPUTATION increases because of it.
My cat catching skills are getting better too. This time I didn't fall out of the tree. Im getting better at catching cats.
- How about the Bounty Hunter analogy. A guy was beating his wife and evading capture. I ABSOLUTELY hate domestic violence so I decide I'll take the contract. I find the guy. Screw the reward. The reward of catching him was enough for me.
Guess what? People know im a bad a**e m**o. My REPUTATION is growing. They will come to me for another job, regardless if I accept the MONETARY reward or not.
On a side note, this guy was tough to catch. I learned some things I didn't know before. My EXPERIENCE and KNOWLEDGE as a bounty hunter are growing.
- Track Star : I got 4th place, with no medal, but I definitely IMPROVED my speed and technique. I got 8th last time. Back of the pack. The more I race and compete , regardless of REWARD (medals), I continue to get better and better. Oh, btw, I don't get any track experience driving to and from the damned track meet.
- WoW : Some WoW quests don't even have rewards. Yet you get EXPERIENCE for them.
I could go on and on and on and on. All day. I don't know why people insist that the experience and monetary reward should go hand in hand. You don't have to get paid to become better at a task.
- You should get 100% of REPUTATION, EXPERIENCE, KNOWLEDGE, Or whatever the F you want to call it upon COMPLETION of the task, which is Killing skeletons, capturing animals, or digging up chests.
- You should get 100% of the MONETARY REWARD upon returning the item to the person that wants it. If you don't turn in, no gold.
I don't know how this is even a debate anymore.
@urihamrayne True but I usually end up reading and replying to each post individually as more often than not people have individual opinions, or they are separate conversations..
I understand the aim of this game and core ideology. Let me say again, this idea could easily be implemented without having a significant impact on the objective to deliver items to the NPC, but what it would do is improve moods and provide a more positive experience for players. Some of those riddles are time consuming to solve, I mean some are easy, but if you aren't on the same wavelength as the game devs sometimes they take longer to complete....
I understand what the game IS, I am not debating that, what I am discussing is what it COULD be, and that this change wouldn't compromise what the game currently is if implemented properly...
@foxdodge I think that is fair enough though, that is what the game is and that shouldn't be changed! That is a core part of the game. And don't forget you don't 'own' the experience until you hand in at an outpost. The problem is the negativity associated with it because you get NOTHING if you lose loot, and this will happen to all of us at some point...
There is nothing wrong with having a physical object worth a lot of experience which can be stolen, the problem is that you don't get anything at any other part of the voyage, even when that is still gaining experience.. it's a bizarre system..
@touchdown1504 Gold is also not a physical thing in this game. You cited the article about the devs’ vision for the game. Does it mention that there?
@entspeak This is true. Really makes you wonder doesn't it? pirate game right? No gold to run our fingers through, no jolly roger flying the top mast, no pirate port like Nassau, no Royal navy...But...its a Pirate Game !
The point I am making is Reputation and Experience is not a tangible thing. Gold on the other hand is very tangible. Since, this thread continues to use arguments based in the lore, which is simply used to cover game mechanics, I added to it. @Foxdodge just made yet ANOTHER excellent one sentence post (I could make a book of foxdodge wisdom) "It's supposed to be about the journey though, not the destination"
Funny...I seem to remember some other people making the same argument, in the opposite direction...yet here it is, experience for the experience. Our Experience Points, Reputation should come from the Journey...
"Did you hear? Captain Bad A*s just turned in two Golden Chickens, A Blue Snake, and three Powder Barrels, he is so awesome, we need to rush him along to legend status"
"Did you hear? Captain Billy Bones just defeated the Kraken on his way back from the fort he cleared, and the storm he sailed through. Alas, he lost his three treasure chests and two skulls. Well, send him out again, he is worthless".
"Reputation" in Sea of Thieves. Legends catch chickens, thats the stories that are told in the taverns on the outposts. Because killing your 100th skeleton boss, solving your 300th riddle, and fighting off the Kraken...yet again...nobody cares about that.
@foxdodge I repeat myself AGAIN, the journey can STILL be the main focus. How can people not see that the journey being the focus of everyone's attention is not going to change!
Having some form of additional bonus progression at key stages during a voyage will not compromise an individuals desire to defend their loot.
Thus I really don't understand how people can be against this idea really...
@touchdown1504 We've made decisions where all quest rewards are physical, and all of that stuff is never truly yours until you get back to the outpost.
All quest rewards are physical. What are the quest rewards? Reputation & Gold... both intangible in this game but, they are bound to something physical in the game, something you carry... and none of that is intended to be yours until you reach an outpost.
Someone brought up checkpoints and saves earlier - other games have these. View the outpost merchants as save stations. In other games, anything you’ve gained is not saved until you reach the checkpoint or save station. Same here.
@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@touchdown1504 We've made decisions where all quest rewards are physical, and all of that stuff is never truly yours until you get back to the outpost.
All quest rewards are physical. What are the quest rewards? Reputation & Gold... both intangible in this game but, they are bound to something physical in the game, something you carry... and none of that is intended to be yours until you reach an outpost.
Someone brought up checkpoints and saves earlier - other games have these. View the outpost merchants as save stations. In other games, anything you’ve gained is not saved until you reach the checkpoint or save station. Same here.
Then why do I get a title and rep for sailing 1000 miles with an active riddle? I could just sail with my boat turned in a circle, nothing physical for anyone to steal. It's all just systems that can be whatever way is most fun for everyone, they thought it would be fun to earn titles, so they put it in. I don't give a damn about saving progress or losing progress to piracy, that makes the game more fun to defend yourself. I want to be encouraged in more, different ways to play the game and get loot. Why is it bad to get me go out and do riddles I normally wouldn't do, thus keeping me vulnerable longer and encouraging all play types? No one has answered this yet
@graiis "Why is it bad to get me go out and do riddles I normally wouldn't do, thus keeping me vulnerable longer and encouraging all play types? No one has answered this yet"
I am not sure if I understand your question, but I will try.
Its not bad to get you to go out and do riddles. Truthfully not sure if I am answering you here. But, I don't see a problem with doing riddles...don't we all do them? Maybe I am just misunderstanding the question?
@entspeak yup I have read that one too. I have to wonder though, what changes are on the plate? What goes on in meetings at Rare HQ? Do you think it is...everything is great, touch nothing, leave it as it is? I doubt it. Anyhow, you and I both have a different point of view, mine is not changing. Experience should be awarded for "the" experience. Fun is a perspective. I (as well as literally hundreds in this thread alone, other threads, Reddit, etc.) feel it is not fun to not get rewarded for the things we do, nor do we find it fun to log out on occasion with a fat zero. So...Regardless if you like this or not, regardless of you feel about it, or what you believe...it is a fact that people do not like the way the rewards are done. You are not changing minds in case you haven't noticed!
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