Hello my fellow pirates.
I have seen many people do this glitch in which you freeze the game on purpose while in front of a ship to board it by cliping trough instead of using the ladders.
I would like to know if this kind of behaviour is considered banneable.
Exploits should count as punisheable actions right?
Let me know your opinion about this feature.
@capt-pilotes sagte in "Lag Boarding" Glitch. Is it banneable or should be?:
Exploits should count as punisheable actions right?
That really depends. There have been and partially still are glitches and exploits around that were/are considered as fine by large parts of the community and have been either adressed and fixed by the devs in the past or not at all, depending on the exact subject.
Then there are some few cases you can indeed report people for, I don't know though if this is one of them.
@trial0n it should be bannable, because unlike the others, you don't do it in-game, with a mechanic, but you have to force-freeze the game with alt+tab
@thekratex7201 sagte in "Lag Boarding" Glitch. Is it banneable or should be?:
@trial0n it should be bannable, because unlike the others, you don't do it in-game, with a mechanic, but you have to force-freeze the game with alt+tab
Personally? I'm absolutely with you that it shouldn't be tolerated; that it requires an extra step doesn't even matter for me.
The thing is, the general mindset seems to have become more lenient and/or confused over all genres.
Back in the "good old times" with a large private server base, things like glitchusing or statspadding usually resulted in permanent bans with no chance of return, but nowadays?
Today people ask themselves if something like wall glitching are is an offence or genuinely think it's high skill play.
Sure, private servers wouldn't be compatible with the core concept of SoT in mind, but I think that the gradual disappearance of private server support aboard many other newer titles of renown series has contributed to the overall confusion.
@thekratex7201 its happened to me once or twice but I don't think its something you can force, its essentially random. I do not know of any method to make this happen most of the time or at all. Its a collision bug that can happen and high velocities or close to certain objects like in between a rock and a boat for example.
@ssolutionss sagte in "Lag Boarding" Glitch. Is it banneable or should be?:
@thekratex7201 its happened to me once or twice but I don't think its something you can force, its essentially random. I do not know of any method to make this happen most of the time or at all. Its a collision bug that can happen and high velocities or close to certain objects like in between a rock and a boat for example.
Uhm... there's a cheat tool made specifically for this, as I have just discovered. Freezing the game per key toggle so it's more convenient. Means this glitchuse is definitely intended and usually not an accident at all.
There you go, people who do this glitch might be cheating as well, though you won't really be able to prove that by video evidence alone. Great, isn't it?
@ssolutionss alt-tabbing does actually force the game to freeze so it can be used intentionally. Source: theb board. This guy uses that to board ships.
@ninja-naranja sagte in "Lag Boarding" Glitch. Is it banneable or should be?:
@trial0n if they’re using a cheat tool then it’s a ban able offense anyways.
True, but it should be bannable even without cheats imo.
I mean that's another form of a wall glitch which puts the other players at a huge disadvantage.
Its not that things have become more lenient, its that there is no way to prove if certain glitches were intentional or not. In private servers, HOPEFULLY, the moderator would be watching the player in question and would witness the glitch happening multiple times per match/session. A glitch happening once or twice is plausible multiple times over a short span of time not so much.
This was the problem with private servers. There were no checks and balances, sometimes moderators would just ban players if they were too good.
I got banned from a CS server once and they said it was because I was wall hacking. According to the lead mod "You did a complete 180 right as someone was about to enter the room and headshot them right as they entered" - Wasn't hax, it was called headphones. I could hear the footsteps of the player. I even had other moderators defend me but the leader of the group banned me anyways. Eventually they moved to another server with the group because the mod was a jerk and banned anyone and everyone for hacks when no one was really hacking.
Another time was in a game where I tracked a player running up the stairs. I was camped out with a sniper and saw a player run into a room that had stairs that lead up into a balcony. I saw him RUN into the doorway and I tracked the movement and headshot him as he came out. Anyone who plays a game long enough knows the general movement speed of a player. Again banned.
Private servers are pretty bad when it comes to bans.
The glitching through the boat doesn't have to happen with just alt tabbing. Alt tabbing helps a lot but sometimes players can glitch through the boat if its going fast enough and depending on angle if its going down on a wave.
So the glitch can happen without anyone extra inputs. Inputs make it happen more likely but it can still happen naturally without anything extra.
These types of behavior should be bannable but are not unfortunately. There is no way to prove someone does it intentionally. However, if you get a video that shows a player doing it on multiple occasions then yes it is bannable.
Situations like these its very hard because it doesn't show in the code. "Player glitches through boat" isn't in the game code. Just have to make sure you find a way to record it.
If a ship does it, then stay in the bottom hull and watching him glitch through the boat, if you get the same player more than once, then upload the video and get them banned. Other than that, "someone glitch through our boat, I didn't see it and I don't have a video, but we were watching ladders and he was on our boat" - is not going to work.
@xultanis-dragon You're talking about the worst of the worst examples here.
Not that an admin has any obligation to let you play on his server in the first place; he has all rights to ban you even due to a private feud.
Or due to a violation of his custom server rules.
Many admins try to keep it civilized because they know it's better for their server population and the internal spirit of their clan/community/friends and they want to have fun on their servers overall.
The co-admins in your first case objecting against that guy's decision says enough.
A third party software on an official server usually won't be able to detect whether someone is glitching through a wall, behaving toxic, spawncamping... If you spectate a player on your server on the other hand and see him e.g. glitching to shoot players from that glitch spot, you can warn and/or ban him.
As there's no direct instance on public only games to prevent players from doing it (or baseraping, vehicle stealing...) or what they think tells them not to do it, they feel free of doing whatever they want to, perceive it as granted and too often also as something not bad at all.
Same with cheaters who want to use the same account with undetected multihacks.
If they ever get caught (mostly due to using the tools wrong), they'd genuinely wonder and ask if that ban is permanent.
But generally you'll encounter the same cheaters again and again and worse it makes more people use cheats because they know nothing happens and because they think that guy will stop cheating if they cheat back as revenge.
Private servers can be bad, but what's worse than public only at this point?
Rare is more an exception here that they do work on player reports, because that's the only resort players have to change things in such an environment.
Players of other franchises are less fortunate.
Also with the ship hull glitch, if you see a player doing nothing else beforehand than preparing to use the glitch and not even trying to board the ship the intended way, you can already count one and one together as a start.
Given that Rare considers it to be bannable. It's not like the PC or CoC are a great help here to determine it or else OP wouldn't have felt the need to even make that post I guess.
My post was in context to the thread at hand. There are a lot of times that glitches can be done unintentionally just like the hull glitch. You don't need third party, just need to be in a certain position in relation to the ship. The third party program just makes it easier however third party program is not mandatory.
So my examples were in context to players perceptions. This type of glitch isn't easy to determine if it was done intentionally or not unless you clearly see the player doing it multiple times, a one off is always possible as players try to position as close to the ship as possible to block the views of the crew they are trying to board.
I've been caught in front of Galleons lots of times trying to get out of LoS of the enemy crew.
Its not that things are more laxed, its just hard to determine if it was intentional since the glitch itself can be done by accident by the normal meta of the game. The other point of my examples is that when it comes to banning of hacks its on the player to prove their innocence when they are banned which is almost impossible to do. How do you prove a negative when you (A) don't know which instance they are talking about in the first place (B) more than likely don't have session recorded.
"You have been found wall hacking" - In what game, in what area?? Time/Date what part of the map?? In my instance I was lucky enough that I had the other mods back me up but if the other mods didn't back me up I would have been banned.
Granted those instances are highly uncommon but the fact that they happened are still relevant.
I'm not disagreeing that the exploit should be bannable. Any exploit that is used intentionally to gain an advantage or break the game should be banned obviously, however the words "intentional" is important because its not something you can prove if the glitch can happen on its own through normal game play.
This isn't like the Galleon Launch glitch where you have to go out of your way to position yourself for like 2 to 3 minutes to do, the hull glitch can happen through normal game play without 3rd party implementation. Thats all I'm saying.
@xultanis-dragon I know that no cheat is needed, I just pointed it out earlier to another commenter that abusing this glitch by intention is definitely a thing. I mean when people even take the effort to make an extra tool for it, just unbelievable.
Normal gameplay.
As every case is one of it's own you're going to see differences in player behaviour that should make it clear when it was an accident and when it points towards the very plan of using that glitch as an advantage.
Using evidence and trying to evaluate it properly is taken for granted of course, we can hardly set the malevolent admin who's just triggered by your skills as the norm.
It's not the first glitch of any game that can be performed in seconds though.
Also other factors give an impression as well, like how many different players have already reported the offender for the very same offence, what are their evidence and so on.
The accused one in such a case would maybe claim that it was all by accident and so forth, but working with probabilities... just no.
I mean the standard excuse of every caught cheater is that it was his brother who did it and not himself, that his account got hijacked by someone else.
Another classic, "asking for a friend" when asking the community for a way out of the ban.
While it's theoretically possible that those things happen (all of them claim that), we know what it really means.
As a side note, you say you felt like needing a dashcam for russian roads, though the consequences in SoT would be far more devastating in the worst case scenario. If someone successfully forges evidence against you on a private server, you're banned on one server. For SoT it literally means game over. SoT admins are not free of errors either; even they can only try their best to minimize the probability of error.
Some intentions can be seen, others not so much. This type of glitch is hard to determine intentions unfortunately. I mentioned before the reason for being close to the ship in that location is strategically legitimate to avoid LoS from the enemy crew.
You don't have to do anything other that swim into that part of the ship which again can happen normally for legitimate reasons. There is no way to tell "oh well the character swam straight there".
Also if the player stops to wait for the ship, that is still no suspicious enough because there is a reason for the player to stop their movement before boarding. Anyone that knows what I'm talking about knows the reason why and it has nothing to do with that particular glitch.
I'm not arguing that there are different factors that admins take to determine the validity of the report, however, saying something like in this case "a player did this and this happened, can he get banned." - The type of glitch and the situation determines how hard it is to ban someone. Certain glitches are easy to determine intentions while others not so much.
Players don't notice half the time what the hell is going on in the first place. SO even if the offender is reported multiple times for the same offense it depends on how far apart the reports are and again for what offense. The stipulation is again that this glitch can happen through normal game play through a legitimate strategy that is the NORM for the game.
Again, I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be bannable. Yes it should be. I am only telling truthfully of the situation. Without actual evidence for this particular exploit there is a very low chance of someone being banned for it.
This is a very hard thing to report and very hard to prove. Looking at it logically without video proof there is no way to prove it without a video. "Player was using glitches all over the place" - unfortunately not good enough nowadays because players have been known to been vindictive.
"We were watching ladders and he was magically on the boat" - Unfortunately the game code doesn't show anything wrong. (Player glitched through the boat) doesn't exactly show up in the log.
Again, all I'm saying is truthfully the chances of someone being banned for it with just a report and no proof is extremely low.
@xultanis-dragon Alright then.
I just wouldn't be too pessimistic about it (given that it's actually bannable) because eventually there will be signs, but then again it's really dependant from case to case, how blatant and plausible alleging someone of intention is or not and so forth.
In case this was misunderstood, I previously meant to say that evidence is needed in form of a video of course (as for all other offences) because that's the only thing the players can really do. Things like insults and kill reports might get saved within the logfiles, but I'd generally supply them with a video nonetheless.
Pictures and videos say more than a thousand words, so yeah.
