Hourglass. My view on it, and a solution.

  • Oh dear, I bet you, my lovely reader, are looking at this post and thinking “oh for goodness sake, another post complaining about hourglass”. I’m not here to tell you that you’re incorrect, because that’s exactly what it is, but I’m hoping you’ll indulge me, maybe out of boredom or curiosity, either is appreciated.

    I love hourglass. Or, I love the concept of it. A game mode where two crews duke it out to take home the win for their chosen faction, rewarded ultimately with highly desirable curses that all long term players have wanted at some point or another. That alone, is great, the music is great, the feeling of coming up from the dive with your factions theme is great, but the gameplay? It feels painful, long, tedious, and not worth it unless you’re playing on community weekend. However I’m not writing this to point that out, everyone knows these opinions already, but what I am trying to point out is that everyone, while declaring that a certain aspect of hourglass is the problem, forgets that it falls into the same trend that sea of thieves has always suffered from, which is repetition of the same pattern for risk of losing it all.

    No, this is not me about to suggest lowering the level requirement for curses or adding rewards up the chain or increasing exp gain, as those are solutions that have also been mentioned repetitively with large debate. Instead, I would like to suggest that rare do as they have done since day one, make something fresh. An entirely new way to level up factions.
    More specifically, I refer to different game modes that rare can implement that isn’t just “my ship sinks your ship and I get more xp* it could also be “my faction has claimed this island, now we kill the enemy and we win” basically like a control point but it’s entirely focused on land rather than naval combat.

    Think of the old flameheart event where we had to choose between him and pendragon, we’d put flags up on each sea post to support our chosen, we can say that whoever has flag up until it reaches a certain value would win the mode, all while fighting off the enemy and the ghosts of the fort.

    Or we could have another game mode like world event defence, where your job is either to attack or defend a certain target, defending that target will get you lots of xp, killing the target will get you lots of xp, either way you’re still going to be fighting the rival faction in the end.

    The simplest idea goes down to 1 vs 1 death matches out of three, in which you’re placed in one area of an Island and forced to slash or shoot with no throwables or other interactive weapons other than those in your weapon slots.

    I whole heartedly believe that despite hourglass making me feel like I want to stop playing the mode entirely (especially because of the rampant cheaters and toxicity associated with the mode) it has potential to be more enjoyable and an easier grind for people with more than just the one way to level up substantially.
    Just imagine how bad it would’ve been now if we had to chase down all those merchant distinctions through putting animals in cages like we had to before there was anything new for the company. Getting to pirate legend was long. And not fun. Now? Now you can be a legend in no time and you are incentivised to do so.

    But that’s essentially what these curses are in the end, just a glorified “pirate legend v2” cosmetic, because you’ve reached pirate legend already for the goat curse and reapers 75 for the skelly curse. the most I think can be done now is for a new mode of exp gain to come out, wether that be through 1v1, TDM, control point, attack and defence, or even anything similar to those.
    Just to spice things up. Maybe when people haven’t had to sit through long queues for an enemy ship it will be more popular, especially without needing constant resupplies of a ship after battle.

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  • but the gameplay? It feels painful, long, tedious, and not worth it unless you’re playing on community weekend.

    What gameplay? You raise from the depths, and fight the ship in front (and anything else that might show up) It the same gameplay you witness if you dont use Hourglass. It painful, long, and tedious... so what the gameplay your trying to say here?

    Again, people mistake Hourglass as some grand giant PvP thing that needs 'better' stuff to get people. When it just a tool for instant pvp. If you dont care about the curses and ignore the rewards/points, it becomes quiet fun.

  • @sleepinghades18 good ideas here!

  • @sleepinghades18 These are some great ideas, which RARE should look into. Specially the TDM and Control Point ones.

  • @burnbacon the gameplay loop is what I’m referring to. You see, there are some distinct differences between regular pvp and hourglass pvp, one being the freedom to move about the whole map (which for clarity is not at all what I am suggesting) and the reward factor. While your view of hourglass is a positive one, viewing it more like a tool, the view I have personally seen myself is that hourglass is more like a grind, just like the rest of the other trading companies because of the desirable rewards it offers. The difference between hourglass and the trading companies however, is that hourglass only has the one way of levelling up, whereas the trading companies have other forms and ways to earn loot, like gold hoarder vaults and treasure maps, or merchant ship wrecks and cargo deliveries. Hourglass has not yet received any other form of pvp other than naval combat, which, after a long time playing, will bore people.

    A good example I can compare this to is overwatch, imagine if that game only had one mode, it would get very boring very quickly and the player retention would drop from the game drastically. If rare were to remove the curses, I have no doubt that hourglass would fall into the same trap that arena did and would fall into irrelevance because not many people actually play the mode for fun, and why would they? Again, the mode is littered with cheaters, toxicity, sweats, and the like.

    My suggestion doesn’t change a single thing about the amount of xp you earn or the level at which curses should be unlocked, it only offers to add another form of that gameplay through different modes. I believe this would help the people who just want the curses, it might even be fun for someone like yourself who views the hourglass as a tool as it gives you a newer way to fight rather than just the same dive, win, dive, sink. Now you could have “the enemy has control of a point, take it back” or “defend your faction representative”, which i personally feel like would spruce up the pvp and make hourglass more fun. Is that not a win win for everyone in this case?

  • Rare please add this these are amazing ideas this would help solo players and make hourglass more enjoyable especially with modes that don't require naval combat it will make it a lot faster and not having to deal with people who will keep running just for the sake of it would be so nice. Kudos to you man these are great!

  • @sleepinghades18 they should just make defending a real thing so you can actually go and play other areas of the game while making hg progress. It'd also add more incentives to fights and make them more interesting. Also it'd make it feel like a real "war" cus you'd actually see people playing HG in the open world.

  • @burnbacon
    As much as I hate that sentiment, I have to agree.

    If you just want the curse but hate the process, then you just don't like PVP, which is fine, but you shouldn't complain about how tedious or drawn out or how annoying it is. The Ghost and Skelly Curses are rewards for people who like PVP, and Bragging right's for people that don't but did the work anyway.

    If you see Hourglass as too hard or unrewarding, then I'm sorry you're just whining, please go find another aspect of the game to enjoy.

  • Wholeheartedly agree with @SleepingHades18 . Brought up many good points.

  • @thetalluno I’m afraid I’d like to respectfully disagree with you.

    I’m not necessarily the biggest fan of pvp, this is true, but I’m not in any way shape or form a pve player only. The game is supposed to be pvpve and that’s just how it is, high seas proves this by virtue of having no level cap.

    As we know however , hourglass is a bit different, it’s pvp and pvp alone unless you get unlucky with some form of pve issue. I’m not complaining that the game mode is only pvp, after all we have a game mode solely based on pve with safer seas, but what my whole point is, is that the pvp is not as good as it can be. Especially when rare has, quite recently infact, declared that it’s ok with having pve elements in battles.

    As mentioned before, if I were to suggest adding rewards or increasing xp, one of those makes getting the curses easier and the other is a debated topic, which I am not advocating for, instead, I am suggesting that rare add another form of combat to hourglass so that it’s a win win situation for everyone involved.

    Players who want the curses but find the loop too repetitive have a new way to fight players, making gameplay more exciting and therefore increasing people going for curses, also increasing the amount of people playing the mode. This is then a win for the long term players who get faster matches and again another way to fight people.

    None of that is me complaining that hourglass is too hard. Just that the loop is tedious and deserves some freshening up to make it more appealing for people, and while i ultimately do think that hourglass is unrewarding, I’ve separated my biases from these ideas so that they provide something meaningful for rare to look into, should they choose.

  • I love your idea, i hope rare listen to you.
    The only thing i am worried about is how it will work if you find yourself in a mega alliance server.

  • Well said the curses are indeed the only reason to do hourglass unless you somehow enjoy circling for 3 minutes until one of you decides to board with a blunderbuss, adding these things would make the grind more fun, more rewarding and not making you question why you even sided with one of them when you could have just fought an ashen lord or something.

  • @sleepinghades18 Here Here for a good idea

  • @maxmegavenom

    The curses are not the only reason to do hourglass. Lots of people including myself play well after the curses and it's the only genuinely fun experience in Sea of Thieves. Hourglass deserves its own unique reward and that shouldn't change because some people don't like or are not willing to earn it.

    Sinking ships in adventure is 99% of the time unrewarding to me from a skill aspect and a treasure aspect, as I don't need any loot and certainty don't want to feel bad out-matching Swabbies for a few Marauders chests.

    Really what would be fun is having the ability to create a private hourglass server separate from adventure and with no rewards such as gold and rep. Could host scrims, practice strategies, teach new players, etc. I would pay monthly/yearly to be able to create this.

  • Clearly you have never been in an alliance or sailed with a friend or done the fotd or done a fort of fortune or ashen winds or literally anything other than train yourself to do a 360 then one ball someone only to board them with a blunderbuss, anchor them and probably be all salty about it. I can respect a decent fighter, but I cannot respect the average hourglass player in quote "skill based matchmaking" which apparently no longer exists, hourglass is stupid elitist and not nearly as fun as it should be, if you think that its the only fun thing in the game go back to COD and stay away from this game entirely.

  • @cainbong I could not agree more with your position. Not because I enjoy that style of play myself, you understand, but because it IS another way for one to enjoy the game.
    Everyone should be free to play how they wish to play, and I think it’s great for people like yourself who utilise hourglass as a tool for fun.

    Your suggestion for a private pvp session is a reasonable one as it removes the idea of rewards and exp with friends so there’s no illegitimate farming of the mode, and I think I would agree with you when you say that it doesn’t seem too far fetched because what difference does it make? If you’re just wanting to pvp with friends, why not be allowed to do that? I can’t think of any reason why anyone shouldn’t be.

    As for the rewards of hourglass, I would agree that hourglass is where the curses should stay, I
    have some reservations about the grind it takes to unlock those curses, but no, they should definitely stay there

  • @maxmegavenom sometimes we have to understand that different people have different tastes, and in this case, it’s ok for them to want to play hourglass as it’s the only thing they enjoy about the game. There may be things about this games pvp that they don’t like about other games, like it’s pace or is style, regardless, a pvp playstyle should be welcomed on the seas, and should not be shunned because everyone deserves to play this game how they want to play it.

    When you say hourglass is elitist, I agree with you in some sense. I have flipped through many of the comments and suggestions in the feedback forums about hourglass, and in my opinion, there’s a trend. Many of these posts, no matter how logical the suggestion, have comments made by recurring people who tend to take pessimistic views and positions. I have not seen many of these people aid discussions so much as I have seen them try to silence them, which I think is ridiculous.

    To me, it does nothing to reduce the divide between pve players, pvp players, and pvpve players, it’s even worse when you think that it doesn’t do anything to help the game as a whole. Just keeps modes like hourglass in a state that heavily limits its potential

  • @maxmegavenom

    I'm closing in on 300 days played in the game since year 1. I've never played CoD. I've done everything this game has to offer and I find myself at this stage to really only enjoy playing hourglass. It's a natural progression of most games when the content has been explored is to move on, find new things about the game to enjoy and/or to simply refine your skills and strategy to improve.

    Sinking people in adventure to me is pointless and unrewarding and I would like a challenge without having to sail around a map to potentially find one and without the guilt of "ruining the game" from salty scallywags that want a safer seas experience with the interaction of others pirates.

    Your comment ironically comes across as elitist suggesting that all hourglass people are the same and should find another PvP game to play.

  • please make this ideas real.

  • @maxmegavenom said in Hourglass. My view on it, and a solution.:

    Well said the curses are indeed the only reason to do hourglass unless you somehow enjoy circling for 3 minutes until one of you decides to board with a blunderbuss, adding these things would make the grind more fun, more rewarding and not making you question why you even sided with one of them when you could have just fought an ashen lord or something.

    Pretty lazy take. Many people like HG, and most fights do not go or end how you claimed. Based on my experience with about 1000 levels between both factions.

  • @maxmegavenom said in Hourglass. My view on it, and a solution.:

    Clearly you have never been in an alliance or sailed with a friend or done the fotd or done a fort of fortune or ashen winds or literally anything other than train yourself to do a 360 then one ball someone only to board them with a blunderbuss, anchor them and probably be all salty about it. I can respect a decent fighter, but I cannot respect the average hourglass player in quote "skill based matchmaking" which apparently no longer exists, hourglass is stupid elitist and not nearly as fun as it should be, if you think that its the only fun thing in the game go back to COD and stay away from this game entirely.

    I’ve said this on these forums dozens of times and I’ll say it again. The most toxic encounters I’ve had in SoT are from pirates who lose it after being attacked at an event which is meant to be fought over, such as a FoF or FotD. Your words here embody that mentality, and I have no doubt that when faced with such a situation, you espouse nastiness to your fellow gamer who’s simply playing the game as intended. On the other side of the coin, most encounters in HG are non-verbal and the extent of the conversation is often simply gg, if anything. There are exceptions to every rule, and I’d wager that your HG experiences are slightly more toxic, because reasons.

    Relax, play the game.

  • Did I once in that complain that there was too much fight to that? No. Did I once say that there was an improper way to play the game? No, I have my views as you all have your views, HG should be at the very least more rewarding, and seriously its just bland, what faction you choose has no impact, its like this " Oh you're a guardian/servant too in that case sink." There is no point to choice besides " do you want skeleton or ghost". Aside from choosing to be wavy or a skeleton 1v1 I must say allows people to be more toxic as they will not be judged by anyone but the person who sank them or they sank (Normally the guy they just sank) I believe if there were more people on your team, with the faction you choose matter a little bit, there would be many more improvements to the toxicity problem, Not hard people have tried to do such things without the reward, turns out after what 16 match losses with a salty servant that reward can be what keeps you going. In the end if you want you might get the curse anyway no matter if you win, lose or somehow a combination of both, take away the reward people might get tired of winning with nothing from it, the ones who lose feel as though it was all pointless anyway, a lot more anyway. Also I'm no salty pirate I respect most people, I confess I trash talked a guy once but I was not in a good mood about a merchant vessel stealing from the order of souls, if anybody has no respect it is the sweats of hourglass who leveled up to 1000 twice.

  • @maxmegavenom said in Hourglass. My view on it, and a solution.:

    Did I once in that complain that there was too much fight to that? No. Did I once say that there was an improper way to play the game? No, I have my views as you all have your views, HG should be at the very least more rewarding, and seriously its just bland, what faction you choose has no impact, its like this " Oh you're a guardian/servant too in that case sink." There is no point to choice besides " do you want skeleton or ghost". Aside from choosing to be wavy or a skeleton 1v1 I must say allows people to be more toxic as they will not be judged by anyone but the person who sank them or they sank (Normally the guy they just sank) I believe if there were more people on your team, with the faction you choose matter a little bit, there would be many more improvements to the toxicity problem, Not hard people have tried to do such things without the reward, turns out after what 16 match losses with a salty servant that reward can be what keeps you going. In the end if you want you might get the curse anyway no matter if you win, lose or somehow a combination of both, take away the reward people might get tired of winning with nothing from it, the ones who lose feel as though it was all pointless anyway, a lot more anyway. Also I'm no salty pirate I respect most people, I confess I trash talked a guy once but I was not in a good mood about a merchant vessel stealing from the order of souls, if anybody has no respect it is the sweats of hourglass who leveled up to 1000 twice.

    So once again you’re throwing shade at those who like HG while sounding salty about it, but no… you’re not salty, it’s those other guys.

    Also why would you get upset about a merchant’s alliance attacking order of souls? Nope, you’re not salty.

    The most toxic players I encounter are those who lose it over being attacked during events which are meant to be fought over. My experience with HG is mostly non-verbal, with the most commonly spoken words being gg, if anything. There are of course exceptions to that.

    You somehow find HG players to be the most lacking in respect. I wonder why ;)

  • Wow you can say two things so very impressive, I did not say all of them I said the most experienced. Merchants have no affiliation with the reapers why would they need our order of souls loot if they are just doing their commodities or whatever they do, if people are on the edge of their seat if they have one that they must say gg instead of good game, slow down take your time to say good game and by doing this ;) you have proven you are the most lacking in respect.

  • @maxmegavenom said in Hourglass. My view on it, and a solution.:

    Wow you can say two things so very impressive, I did not say all of them I said the most experienced. Merchants have no affiliation with the reapers why would they need our order of souls loot if they are just doing their commodities or whatever they do, if people are on the edge of their seat if they have one that they must say gg instead of good game, slow down take your time to say good game and by doing this ;) you have proven you are the most lacking in respect.

    Okay

  • The Hourglass needs 3 things: Have a balanced pool of players, a better matchmaking system (Which can't be done without a proper pool), and erase as much toxicity/hacks/exploits as possible to make it balanced.

    How to achieve that? Daily deeds that grant additional XP so you can level up a little faster and weekly/monthly double XP weekends to keep the engagement.

    With that, the gamemode will feel more rewarding and the grind to lvl 100-1000 less punishing.

    Once this is added they can create new gamemodes, instance some matches or whatever they feel could be fun. But there needs to be a constant and big playerbase first to do so...

  • @capt-pilotes this and I think they need fight nights to be either a weekly or monthly thing. This was probably the most fun I had in hg because everyone was drawn to it and I actually fought people my level. I had a good challenge but I also won about 50% of the time instead of 20%

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