Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

@urihamrayne And, for me, if the suggestions in the OP were in the game at launch, I would be asking for a change - as would many PvP players, because chest for chest, skull for skull, it penalizes PvP as a means of progress in a game where stealing is supposed to be an important facet of gameplay - be it engaging in or defending against theft.

@pumpkinkangaroo

I'm sorry if those wanting to benefit from my work are unhappy that I've run into the red and taken anything of value with me, but it is worth it to me to take it to my grave.

It's worth it for you to take the time to take it to the red sea and take it to your grave, but not worth it to take it to an outpost mid-voyage to ensure that you don't lose all of your progression for a play session? Or, do you feel you should not lose anything, ever?

I've asked @GraiIs why he chose a riskier order in which to do a voyage, I've asked others why they haven't chosen to go to the outpost mid-voyage; when @AngryCoconut16 brought up an example where he said that, in a 2 hour session, someone didn't have a chance to go to an outpost... and I asked questions about that scenario... all of these legitimate questions are getting ignored. Why? Because the answer renders this idea moot.

There is already a game design element to prevent people from logging out having gained zero progress - the outposts.

They are this game's version of checkpoints or save stations. They are spread all over the map. You can choose to go to any one of them on GH/OoS voyages. If the issue is that you have an island with 4 chests and 1 island with a riddle, so you don't want to risk losing 4 chests while you do the riddle... do the riddle first. Choices. Strategies. That's the true solution. Problem solved, we can all go home now... or is there an issue with this solution to the problem?

@entspeak The issue is that it would require planning, forethought, and strategy. It would also involve not blaming other people for said problem, cant have that.

@urihamrayne I read that. I also provided a choice to try to prevent that. Pick a piece of your loot and drop it in their path. If they want the loot, they will have to stop chasing you to get it. Cut your losses and get back to the rest of your voyage. Choice. Strategy.

@urihamrayne The game as it stands now does actively discourage PvP. There is literally no reason for me (if I have loot on my ship) to try and PvP, especially if its a decent amount. If its a castaway chest or whatever, I'll fight. If I have a couple captains, a grog, some villainous skulls, im out like the Flash.

Why would I ever PvP if the end result means im going to lose hour(s) or progress?

@entspeak This post about sums it up. Do you honestly think I am the only one that has these issues? So within this thread alone you have seen people who have said screw this game over the progress system.

Losing a PvP fight should be just that. Losing a PvP fight. Now you have to restock, travel back to where you were questing or PvPing. That should be enough. Now you have lost all progress on top of everything else.

You are as dense as an acme anvil bro.

@chunkgb You and everyone else :)

Not getting anything is akin to playing Battlefield and losing all experience gained for the match because you lost. It makes zero sense.

This thread (or reason it even exists) is among the reasons this game is going downhill like a snowball.

• Lack of content
• Horrible progression grind (makes some korean grinders look casual)
• 100% potential xp loss which leads to players being frustrated enough to quit playing
• Absurd autoaiming skeleton pistol packs
• Hackers

I could add 4-5 more bullet points

@skyewauker said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@pumpkinkangaroo It upsets him greatly. Its cute honestly. Kinda like a puppy when they are wanting a treat. lol.

He still hasn't laid out the negatives of giving experience (progression) upon task and not turn in. No one has.

All it does is benefit the game.

The negative, as clearly spelled out many times, is that the primary motivation for PvP (possibility for loot, =progression through PvP) is lessened, as a bonus upon finding treasure raises the value of that treasure for finders without a subsequent raise for thieves. Consequently, the comparative value of the individual pieces of treasure on your ship goes down for the thief, who has a much greater incentive to ignore thieving altogether and become a pure quester. After all and in addition, with such a bonus, pure questing would be the only means of guaranteed progression, since a thief with stolen loot could lose that loot and thus log off without having gained any progression.

As for being dense, that honor goes to you for having the belief that deincentivizing PvP through any number of the effects of these suggestions wouldn't negatively impact the balance and atmosphere of the game. The devs themselves designed the game, Sea of Thieves, through many systems to promote, encourage, and reward thieving. It is an integral component of the game, and to mess with it would be to want the devs to reshape the game to your specifications rather than theirs, a fool's errand.

@urihamrayne said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@entspeak yeah but my concern is mostly what type of situation we are dealing with here, because it is understandable being intimidated by an enemy crew while piloting a solo or even a duo, not so much a galleon. Which seems to be the one scenario where people here seem to be basing their claims on: I'm a solo, I can't fight back against a galleon.

But, you can outsail a galleon without having to go to take your loot out of the gaming area. The only galleon ever sank me... I was parked and I let them catch me off-guard. My fault, not the game design.

Also, most chasers are very bloodthristy and sometimes clueless, they wont go for just loot, which is a very frustrating experience, still, it depends on what you are piloting, be that a solo or a galleon.

Duo-sloops are the most difficult to deal with as a solo sloop. I've definitely had issues with them trying to chase me to the end of the earth. Still has never cost me all the loot from my entire 2-hour session.

@pumpkinkangaroo said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@entspeak I laugh at the fact that I said I will take my loot to the grave and that upsets so many. I do "outpost hop" as my family calls it. We carry very little but that doesn't mean you should get to take all my rewards simply because you feel your sinking me is enough work to have earned it.

You want me to turn and fight? I've said it before, I would be willing to if I was still provided something for what I've put in. You feel that you deserve 100% reward for half (or less) of the work. I have to not only do the PvE to collect that reward but then also defend it from you. That's twice the work for the same reward!

You think that is fair, I get that. I don't and for some reason that upsets you.

Nah, I'm not upset. I'm not a PvP player, so it doesn't impact me one iota that you make use of that exploit. I'm sure that if it becomes too much of an abuse of that mechanic for the devs, you'll start seeing floating loot on the border of the red sea.

Do I want you to turn and fight? No, I couldn't care less. I don't turn and fight most of the time... I usually run, though, often it ends up being a combination of running and fighting.

But, you be you. I thought you were one of the people who had an issue with losing all the reputation for the hours you put in. Clearly, you're not. You've got a different issue.

@skyewauker said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@urihamrayne The game as it stands now does actively discourage PvP. There is literally no reason for me (if I have loot on my ship) to try and PvP, especially if its a decent amount. If its a castaway chest or whatever, I'll fight. If I have a couple captains, a grog, some villainous skulls, im out like the Flash.

Why would I ever PvP if the end result means im going to lose hour(s) or progress?

I feel exactly the same way! If I have a castaway or something on my sloop, screw it... why not fight? It's good strategy to assess what you have and the risks based on what you have on board. Like... for instance, if I have a couple of Captain's chests, I'm heading for an outpost, so I can get that couple grand and make sure I don't lose the reputation for them should I end up in a fight later. Problem solved.

@skyewauker said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@entspeak This post about sums it up. Do you honestly think I am the only one that has these issues? So within this thread alone you have seen people who have said screw this game over the progress system.

Losing a PvP fight should be just that. Losing a PvP fight. Now you have to restock, travel back to where you were questing or PvPing. That should be enough. Now you have lost all progress on top of everything else.

You are as dense as an acme anvil bro.

No, I don't think you're the only one who has these issues.

@skyewauker said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@pumpkinkangaroo It upsets him greatly. Its cute honestly. Kinda like a puppy when they are wanting a treat. lol.

He still hasn't laid out the negatives of giving experience (progression) upon task and not turn in. No one has.

All it does is benefit the game.

Except that I have... as have others. Even a few posts up.

@urihamrayne I didn't say "outrun" I said "outsail."

@urihamrayne Oh, okay. Yeah, outrun is only about speed. Outsailing involves maneuverability, size, knowledge of how to use obstacles and islands, etc...

As a solo player, it's much easier to outsail a galleon than a duo-sloop.

As an example, if someone's chasing me near Plunder Outpost, I will lead them to Thieves Haven and I will sail through the island. A galleon is not going to make that easily and at speed. And, if they try to go around... well, there are three ways in, so I choose the exit farthest from them.

A duo sloop will be much more of a problem in that instance, but I can usually juke quickly around as I exit and have cannons firing on them as the exit. Only time it didn't work was due to server lag - I was teleported off my ship and, so, crashed.

It's all about choice and strategy.

@graiis You guys really need to think in smaller numbers. I'm level 30 in GH. If I got 20% per voyage, I'd be dumping loot, just doing the tasks, and never seeing an outpost again. I still get single island voyages. I'd cancel all voyages that were too long and only do the singles.

@pumpkinkangaroo said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

I do not put too much emphasis on actually needing my loot. I put great value on the work I put into getting it!! This is the thing I think most PvP players that I've read on these forums don't seem to understand or respect.

That distinction makes no sense, you value the time you put into collecting loot therefore you value the loot based on that time.

This is the perfect way to set up something that is valuable to a player, something you can lose.

I put the work in. I fought the waves of skellies. I solved the riddle to dig up the chest. I spent time and effort doing those things and I didn't do it so a PvP player can come along and be rewarded for my work. I will do everything in my power to keep that reward out of their hands even (especially) if I lose everything.

Actually, you did if you're playing this game. You're playing a game where the goal is to collect loot and protect it from other players. That's the point of the game.

This is like saying you didn't run into enemy territory to pick up a flag in capture the flag only to be shot by other players in a game of capture the flag. If you don't like the premise of the game, you shouldn't be playing the game.

If you want more loot out of PvP and more players willing to fight you to keep it, you should value the work they put in to getting. I'm sorry if those wanting to benefit from my work are unhappy that I've run into the red and taken anything of value with me, but it is worth it to me to take it to my grave.

Why is it worth it to spend time dumping your loot? You lose everything. You've completely missed the point of the game. Instead of even attempting to engage in a ship to ship battle your first move is to say screw it? You're telling me if we gave you value upfront you'd be willing to risk the bulk of the value when your willing to dump all of it anyway. This is again mirroring the people that are looking for ultra efficiency, the idea is even starting the fight, it's faster just to leave and start missions on another server. Except in your case, you'll hit the edge of the map out of anger for the inconvenience someone else caused playing the game the way its supposed to be played...

Also.. stop treating players like they are exclusively PvE and PvP. Many "PvP players" are just PvE players that take the opportunity to pirate other players in the middle of PvE. PvP players are willing to lose the time spent gathering chests, that's a big difference. And I have lost a lot of loot. I have also gained a lot of loot. If the game didn't toss loot at players I think it would be important to reward effort spent at the point of finishing a voyage. But ultimately loot is so easy to acquire the value added by needing to turn it in is more important. It creates the stakes in the pirate game.

@urihamrayne
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Arguing it would take a lot of time and derail the topic.

@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@I-Am-Lost-77 @entspeak @AngryCoconut16 @lotrmith
Let me lay out what I feel like was the best idea we've had so far, I feel like we're getting out into the weeds with some wild stuff. It should be easy to implement this, and should preserve the balance of pvpve. Nothing about islands visited or chests found or whatever. You just get a flat percent of your level when the voyage complete fanfare pops as long as the voyage is appropriate level. If you are lower, you get the same flat percent (which is less since lower levels are less total rep obviously) . If you are higher level you get the same as if you were the same level (ie if 10 percent happens to be 1000 rep at level 25, but at 45 10 percent is 20000, you get 1000) I feel like that's all it would really take. Rare can put in the reward at any value, start low, and tweak it if people are doing too much of one thing. The whole point is to encourage voyage completion and even out the reward between many item and few item quests. It has the side effect of helping a bit for people upset about losing everything but doesn't remove or alter the value of world items. It gets people out finishing long voyages, thus boosting PvP experience. I think there's not much either side can complain about with this change.

You're saying give a PvE bonus for completing voyages... but, if you don't complete the voyage, you don't get the bonus.

This will have people canceling long voyages at the top in order to get the bonus - especially, if they are casual players.

Also, since you're giving a flat rate (not a percentage), as the levels increase, it will feel like less and less of a reward and we're back at square one.

And, still nobody has addressed the elephant in the room... it's not really necessary.

You've yet to explain why, when you have a 4 chest island and a 1 riddle island, you don't choose a plan for that voyage that results in less risk/time invested? Instead, you choose the option that would increases your risk, so you cancel the voyage after the 4 chest island. So, rather than strategize, as the game currently intends you to do, you want to not have to worry about things like strategy?

@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@I-Am-Lost-77 @entspeak @AngryCoconut16 @lotrmith
Let me lay out what I feel like was the best idea we've had so far, I feel like we're getting out into the weeds with some wild stuff. It should be easy to implement this, and should preserve the balance of pvpve. Nothing about islands visited or chests found or whatever. You just get a flat percent of your level when the voyage complete fanfare pops as long as the voyage is appropriate level. If you are lower, you get the same flat percent (which is less since lower levels are less total rep obviously) . If you are higher level you get the same as if you were the same level (ie if 10 percent happens to be 1000 rep at level 25, but at 45 10 percent is 20000, you get 1000) I feel like that's all it would really take. Rare can put in the reward at any value, start low, and tweak it if people are doing too much of one thing. The whole point is to encourage voyage completion and even out the reward between many item and few item quests. It has the side effect of helping a bit for people upset about losing everything but doesn't remove or alter the value of world items. It gets people out finishing long voyages, thus boosting PvP experience. I think there's not much either side can complain about with this change

Problem there is that you further incentivize PvE by adding rewards without an equivalent incentive/reward for PvP.

Two issues seem to be conflated here. The first is the ides that you could be sunk before turning in any of your loot, the solution to which, in the dev's own words, lies in understanding that the loot and all it stands for (rep/gold/timeinvested) is not yours until you turn it in. You have the option to fight back, run, or visit outposts more frequently.

The other issue is that players have no incentive to finish the whole voyage, which doesn't seem to fit into the theme of this thread but to which I propose the following: Have a bonus upon complete voyage but only when handing back in the voyage page to the faction representative at an outpost. Your voyage progress is tracked on the page, and if you get 100% complete and turn it in, you get a nice bonus. However, if (and only if) your ship sinks, your quest page becomes a floating message in a bottle just like any treasure you had on board. You must recover it to continue or risk losing it, and thus your progress, to a thief. If a thief sinks you and steals a 100% complete voyage page, all he has to do it turn it in and he gets the bonus. If it is partially complete he has the option to finish it out and gain the bonus. Thus PvE and PvP only get a bonus upon turning in, and nobody is given an opportunity for a bonus thag the other cannot steal.