Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...

  • CaelumNL
    Founder

    because I don't get it.

    Facts:
    -we are with over a million players (for as long as people can find reason to play until they done everything ofc. But that's beside the point.)
    -Iirc, there are 16 players going into 1 server.
    -I think people edging to pve and pvp are 50-50, but lets say the balance would be extremely bias towards pve with an 80-20 difference.

    Problem 1: Not enough pvpers to fill the servers.

    You got (1000000x20%)/16=12.500 potentially full pvp servers could exist at one time. Taking in acount that the amount of pvping people will probably be higher and on the other hand people aren't online at the same moment, There would still be enough pvp servers up. But you don't need 12.500 servers up all the time. As an individual, you only need 15 other people to be able to fully enjoy yourself and not being missing out on anything.

    Problem 2: segregating the community.

    Servers are segregating the community already in thousands of small 16 ppl parts. There is no bigger world that is getting smaller. Even if the amount of people that played this game was reduced to 16, you wouldn't notice if all those 16 were playing on the same server. In that regard you wouldn't even notice if pve players would get their own servers. And in the community segregation is already taking place because of people clashing as they both want to play the game different, which takes us to...

    Problem 3: pve players wouldn't play the game as intended.

    There is 0, nothing, nada, niente, zero, nul reason why pvpers could or would care what would happen on a pve server while they were hunting and killing eachother on pvp servers. This game can be played in a mirad kind of ways. There is no way in the game where a pve player could do anything or make any progression that would hurt a pvper in anything but maybe his ego might someone have grinded in pve so much they had become all shiney with cosmetics. Get over it. if you are a pvp player you got your fun out of the combat and thrill of it, the pve player got it out of the grind and the cosmetics.

    Random other stuff: (positive ) consequences of pve servers.

    -Pvp players would finally get more quality pvp done as all the runners, pvpnoobs and passive players would have moved over to the light side, making room for pvp enthousiasts on your server.
    -Lots of the toxicity on the forums would be gone as everyone can play the game they want to play, leaving lots more room for sharing cool and epic stories. Pve players still like to listen to tales of great battles, they just don't need to be part of it.
    -There are options. pve players can switch to pvp servers if they fancy the thrill of the possibility of getting mugged and pvpers that want to take a break from the action and want to grind a specific faction or want to do a skull fort without the constant nagging feeling of getting backstabbed can do so. And noone will be in eachother's way. You still do what YOU want. No drawback. You can switch to another server on the fly. Nobody has the advantage over the other.
    -Other games proved that PVP and PVE can live side by side. World of Warcraft has a healthy PVP and PVE community. Destiny has lots of players doing Cruxible with it's own progression line where there is no difference in balance in power between pvp and pve rewards. You can get strong playiong the way you want to be.

    Conclusion: There is only one reason I see why anyone would be against adding pve servers. Wanting to dictate what other players can or can't do. "But Rare has made this game fully build for pvp."and pvp players will not find any difference in their gaming experience if pve servers would exist. It's not as if they would need to rebuild the game for pve. They only needed to tweak the pve servers s that other players are invulnerable, treasures dug up and skulls dropped by killed skelletons would be able to be touched by the players that did so and that the loot of skull forts would be divided by the amount of people that participated in raiding it, binding it to the player as if you dug it up/killed the skeleton yourself. The only people that stand to lose from adding pve servers are those that pray on passive players and pvp noobs.

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  • Jack LittleShoe

    @caelumnl because eventually, with the content currently in game, PvE players would get very bored, very quickly, and if a server is full of PvP players, you know, the ones who don't do voyages usually? there would be nothing for them to loot, and without PvP players, the PvE players are stuck with repetitive quests, with no sense of danger, which could adversely affect their game play experience, so, no PvE servers, we are all stuck together, deal with it.

    Edit: and no, i didn't read the entire wall of text you call a post.

  • Jedi Firefly

    @jack-littleshoe said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @caelumnl because eventually, with the content currently in game, PvE players would get very bored, very quickly, and if a server is full of PvP players, you know, the ones who don't do voyages usually? there would be nothing for them to loot, and without PvP players, the PvE players are stuck with repetitive quests, with no sense of danger, which could adversely affect their game play experience, so, no PvE servers, we are all stuck together, deal with it.

    Edit: and no, i didn't read the entire wall of text you call a post.

    I hate it when a PvP player posts an opinion as fact. "PvE gets boring." This is YOUR opinion. I do nothing but PvE and have done nothing but PvE since launch, I am not bored. Boring to me is constantly being hunted and attacked while I'm trying to ply my trade as a merchant mariner.

  • v4c Saucey
    Marauder
    Insider

    yeah lets turn the pirate game into something else entirely and give it a carebear mode for people to meaninglessly get the pirate legend status.

    if you want pve servers there should be no rep progression allowed on it or it belittles the feat for other players who are playing the intended way with actual risk involved.

  • Padd
    Castaway
    Founder

    @caelumnl If you want to play a PVE game, play Assassin's Creed. This is Sea of Thieves a PVE/PVP game

  • subaqueousReach
    Ship Mate

    @jedi-firefly you're playing a merchant in a sea full of pirates. Do you not understand what pirates do?

  • Jedi Firefly

    @subaqueousreach said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @jedi-firefly you're playing a merchant in a sea full of pirates. Do you not understand what pirates do?

    Argument #2 "It's a pirate game hurdur"

  • MacDoland
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    Although I'm not strictly against the idea, and I think it is important that everyone gets to enjoy the game, I would never play on a PVE server, and it would likely have a detrimental effect on my experience for the following reason.

    Most often I take a "don't attack unless provoked" attitude to sailing around in this game. However I do enjoy the risk and threat of the potential encounter that lies behind every corner. Along with the chance of friendly humorous encounters.

    If there existed a PVE/PVP server divide, I may find the likelihood of each encounter being an aggressive attacker type greatly increases as merchant and passive sailors become a rarity. For me the beauty lies in the unknown and the balance that a mix of players brings to the game. Not just one type of player or the other.

    That's just my thoughts on the subject

  • Moomintroll
    Master
    Insider

    I tend to think of myself as much more PVE focused than PVP, but I really believe the game would be spoiled for me if they made dedicated servers for both - I wouldn't want to play on either! The game is just about balanced right at the moment, where you can focus on your voyages with some degree of comfort but the ever-present risk of aggressive pirates is always there (yes, that's a tautology...), and you have to keep your wits about you. And removing the PVP players from PVE would also remove the unexpected pleasure of meeting a friendly crew, and make it completely impossible if you actually played on the PVP server!

    While it can be annoying to have to take a massive detour to avoid trouble, it's also, in retrospect, the most exciting part of the game. Just last night my crew and I were running the second part of a skelly hunt and two sloops turned up and turned aggressive - we had a brief exchange of cannon fire with one, but realised we were somehow out of cannonballs and had to re-stock from an island while fighting. We then scared those guys off luckily, but had a prolonged chase with the other, ultimately ending in us being boarded but we sunk their ship, and they had to mermaid back leaving the skull they stole from us floating in the sea for us to retrieve. We then went back and finished the voyage. I know some people would find that whole experience irritating, but it makes the game for me. The combat/chase on its own it wouldn't work though - you need to be trying to do something else to make it in any way perilous.

  • Jack LittleShoe

    @jedi-firefly said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @jack-littleshoe said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @caelumnl because eventually, with the content currently in game, PvE players would get very bored, very quickly, and if a server is full of PvP players, you know, the ones who don't do voyages usually? there would be nothing for them to loot, and without PvP players, the PvE players are stuck with repetitive quests, with no sense of danger, which could adversely affect their game play experience, so, no PvE servers, we are all stuck together, deal with it.

    Edit: and no, i didn't read the entire wall of text you call a post.

    I hate it when a PvP player posts an opinion as fact. "PvE gets boring." This is YOUR opinion. I do nothing but PvE and have done nothing but PvE since launch, I am not bored. Boring to me is constantly being hunted and attacked while I'm trying to ply my trade as a merchant mariner.

    I hate it when PvE players assume someone else is a PvP player just because they don't want a carebear server.

  • Jedi Firefly

    @jack-littleshoe said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @jedi-firefly said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @jack-littleshoe said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @caelumnl because eventually, with the content currently in game, PvE players would get very bored, very quickly, and if a server is full of PvP players, you know, the ones who don't do voyages usually? there would be nothing for them to loot, and without PvP players, the PvE players are stuck with repetitive quests, with no sense of danger, which could adversely affect their game play experience, so, no PvE servers, we are all stuck together, deal with it.

    Edit: and no, i didn't read the entire wall of text you call a post.

    I hate it when a PvP player posts an opinion as fact. "PvE gets boring." This is YOUR opinion. I do nothing but PvE and have done nothing but PvE since launch, I am not bored. Boring to me is constantly being hunted and attacked while I'm trying to ply my trade as a merchant mariner.

    I hate it when PvE players assume someone else is a PvP player just because they don't want a carebear server.

    I agree with the OP. I just don't see how it affects people if they add PvE servers. You don't want to play on a PvE server? Don't problem solved. Why does what some other random unknown player in the world is doing on some server somewhere? WoW has PvE and PvP servers, how has it fared over the last 14 years?

  • niepel1337

    Cause as PVP player you also want to get free loot. With PVE player there is no need to implement AI-Ships :P

  • BaseIsSafe
    Master
    Insider

    @v4c-saucey said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    yeah lets turn the pirate game into something else entirely and give it a carebear mode for people to meaninglessly get the pirate legend status.

    if you want pve servers there should be no rep progression allowed on it or it belittles the feat for other players who are playing the intended way with actual risk involved.

    Totally agree, I’ve been on the forum for five minutes and I’m already tired of these type of threads.

    They’ll be no progression here, the front line is everywhere.

  • Kustho
    Ship Mate

    Keep your facts...the real fact is:

    in exactly 1 week (6,5 days left) everyones 14 days of trial are over, and a big part of those wont buy the game for 60 bucks...resulting in a community and playerbase being reduced to about 25% of what you have right now...so..you DONT SPLIT SERVERS.

  • subaqueousReach
    Ship Mate

    @jedi-firefly

    Well that's exactly what it is. I'm not sure what you think you signed up for, but SoT is definitely not it.

    Maybe try out Ship Simulator 2018. That seems more like the game you're trying to play.

  • Lord Dyonsus
    Master
    Insider

    @Deckhands I think this topic needs a megathread, not 100,000 tiny threads

  • CaelumNL
    Founder

    @jack-littleshoe said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @caelumnl because eventually, with the content currently in game, PvE players would get very bored, very quickly, and if a server is full of PvP players, you know, the ones who don't do voyages usually? there would be nothing for them to loot, and without PvP players, the PvE players are stuck with repetitive quests, with no sense of danger, which could adversely affect their game play experience, so, no PvE servers, we are all stuck together, deal with it.

    Edit: and no, i didn't read the entire wall of text you call a post.

    But that's their choice, isn't it? If the grind would get too tiresome, they could move back to pvp to sprouse up their daily grind. That's the beauty of choice. You can do different things. Now you are just making up a negative scenario and call that PVE destiny.

  • LucianSanchez82
    Legend
    Boatswain
    Founder

    @caelumnl For me I don't think the issue is with numbers, or the amount of content there is or isn't to do. The over-arching issue for me is that this game is, by design, an open world populated by other players. When you happen across those other players, choices have to be made - will I be friendly? will they be friendly? Do they have loot that I want? Do I have loot I'd rather protect? This game is built around the prospect of bumping in to other players and making a choice of how to react to that encounter. Take that away and you're simply ignoring the core "social" mechanic of this game.

    Granted, in this early stage everyone has an itchy trigger finger, and the ever present griefers and trolls make most encounters end in a fight. I feel like this will calm down as the game settles and people learn better ways to avoid contact if need be, or handle a fight better.

    In short, a pve only environment may not hurt this game as such. But implementing it would be to essentially strip away the very purpose of the game itself.

  • davejc64
    Founder

    There are no real issues, the only issues are nonsense and imagined.

  • syntxerr
    Master
    Insider
    Founder

    Perhaps we could somehow channel our discussion on this topic in one of the other threads about this?

  • Kustho
    Ship Mate

    @caelumnl sagte in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @jack-littleshoe said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @caelumnl because eventually, with the content currently in game, PvE players would get very bored, very quickly, and if a server is full of PvP players, you know, the ones who don't do voyages usually? there would be nothing for them to loot, and without PvP players, the PvE players are stuck with repetitive quests, with no sense of danger, which could adversely affect their game play experience, so, no PvE servers, we are all stuck together, deal with it.

    Edit: and no, i didn't read the entire wall of text you call a post.

    But that's their choice, isn't it? If the grind would get too tiresome, they could move back to pvp to sprouse up their daily grind. That's the beauty of choice. You can do different things. Now you are just making up a negative scenario and call that PVE destiny.

    All equipment is equal...no one here has an excuse to loose in PvP. None.

    And no, as i wrote above...since everyone 14days of trial are over in a few days, splitting servers would be bad...real bad.

  • Madeiner

    Since there are no AI ships, you DO realize you would have a game about pirates, where you cannot attack or be attacked at sea, where cannons are useless?

    A pirate game without ship battles? Really?

  • GREATwhite72094

    I don’t think the devs have any interest. They are trying to build a pirate world with a community that plays together. I don’t see what’s so wrong with that. The only way I could see them doing anything close to this is making it so solos can only play with other solos. (Still in my opinion that’s very boring)

    Also, I have sailed many times alone and haven’t been sunk when out on voyages. I don’t see anything wrong with a little thrill of seeing another ship anyway.

  • Jack LittleShoe

    @jedi-firefly you're literally comparing SoT to WoW? you're very naive, for years WoW has dominated the MMO genre it has a playerbase that is so big, that the second biggest MMOs player base isn't even half, its maybe not even a quarter of the size. and splitting the playerbase would effect EVERYONE, even if you don't think it would, it WOULD, a game like this needs it's playerbase to be diverse to survive.

  • CaelumNL
    Founder

    @v4c-saucey said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    yeah lets turn the pirate game into something else entirely and give it a carebear mode for people to meaninglessly get the pirate legend status.

    if you want pve servers there should be no rep progression allowed on it or it belittles the feat for other players who are playing the intended way with actual risk involved.

    You call pve players carebears while you care the most about useless titles and fancy cosmetics others might have. Why do you care so much what others have done? Are you playing the game for yourself or to look fancy and important in other people's eyes? I couldn't care less for the progression of others. I see them maybe once in my game time in SoT before they move on to 10000 different servers.

  • Jedi Firefly

    @subaqueousreach said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @jedi-firefly

    Well that's exactly what it is. I'm not sure what you think you signed up for, but SoT is definitely not it.

    Maybe try out Ship Simulator 2018. That seems more like the game you're trying to play.

    For your info, I am not against PvP. I also wouldn't play on a PvE server if they added them. I learn to watch the horizon and plan accordingly. I can play 3 or 4 hours now and never get withing attack range of another ship. I am just agreeing with the OP that adding PvE servers wouldn't hurt the game.

    Maybe I'd like to try the game with my daughter. She sees me playing and to her it looks like a cool pirate cartoon game. Do you have any idea how hard it is to just sail around and explore with her as 15 other bloodthirsty idiots are trying to hunt you into oblivion? PvE servers are an option, and more options means more players.

  • Jack LittleShoe

    @caelumnl why should the devs spend their money and time on investing in a PvE only server, when they could be investing it in more content for the game? especially when only a small fraction of the community wants a PvE server.

  • BaseIsSafe
    Master
    Insider

    @luciansanchez82 said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @caelumnl For me I don't think the issue is with numbers, or the amount of content there is or isn't to do. The over-arching issue for me is that this game is, by design, an open world populated by other players. When you happen across those other players, choices have to be made - will I be friendly? will they be friendly? Do they have loot that I want? Do I have loot I'd rather protect? This game is built around the prospect of bumping in to other players and making a choice of how to react to that encounter. Take that away and you're simply ignoring the core "social" mechanic of this game.

    Granted, in this early stage everyone has an itchy trigger finger, and the ever present griefers and trolls make most encounters end in a fight. I feel like this will calm down as the game settles and people learn better ways to avoid contact if need be, or handle a fight better.

    In short, a pve only environment may not hurt this game as such. But implementing it would be to essentially strip away the very purpose of the game itself.

    This should be the end of the discussion with that last line. PvE only makes no sense as it’s fundamentally against the entire spirit of the game.

    If you want a no consequence, no confrontation type environment I hear theres still space available over on No Man’s Sky

  • CaelumNL
    Founder

    @padd said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    @caelumnl If you want to play a PVE game, play Assassin's Creed. This is Sea of Thieves a PVE/PVP game

    Deciding for others while you and everyone else could just happily play this game their way without it would be hurting one another.

  • Jedi Firefly

    @madeiner said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    Since there are no AI ships, you DO realize you would have a game about pirates, where you cannot attack or be attacked at sea, where cannons are useless?

    A pirate game without ship battles? Really?

    Cannons are far, far from useless in PvE. I use them to attack skeletons all the time for easy kills.

  • v4c Saucey
    Marauder
    Insider

    @caelumnl it just sounds like you want a single player game then. go play an easy mode single player game instead of trying to change this one that a lot of other people seem to like.

  • subaqueousReach
    Ship Mate

    @lord-dyonsus that would just give it the attention it doesn't need. Rare has already stated they have no intention of separating PvE from PvP by segregating servers. Ever.

  • Aztechnology537
    Master
    Founder

    Well for one it would be quite boring. As there isn't sufficient content for PVE players.

    But the most important part is players would farm/grind the hell out of PVE servers as there's no risk. Then immediately return to PVP servers to grief (Or simply just fight for fighting's sake, because chances are most players on PVP servers would simply be there to get into fights). Instead of the Risk : Reward element of not knowing what will happen when you see another ship.

    I mean as is, this will happen eventually anway for the most part as people run out of thing to do, or have progressed enough into cosmetics etc. Especially if the legendary pirate stuff ends up just being minor cosmetics that people don't really care to invest the time for.

  • CoffeeArt687098
    Marauder
    Insider

    I have read your post... It wasn't a wall of text, I'm not sweating from the mental heavy lifting... ;D
    Nice points here...

    A PvP server would contain 100% of the game content as a PvE server still, so going on quests would still be an option- but the choice to ignore all that & go ship hunting would take priority, obviously...

    A PvE server could exist for those people that just want to sail, explore & complete voyages without the background threat of interference & random murder that people want to avoid...

    Players don't have to pick a side! This isn't Crips v Bloods- bonded for life! I think that PvE players would dip into PvP servers at times for some excitement & conflict- & PvPers would skip across to PvE for a break occasionally... ;D

  • CaelumNL
    Founder

    @macdoland said in Help me understand what the issues would be of introducing PvE servers...:

    Although I'm not strictly against the idea, and I think it is important that everyone gets to enjoy the game, I would never play on a PVE server, and it would likely have a detrimental effect on my experience for the following reason.

    Most often I take a "don't attack unless provoked" attitude to sailing around in this game. However I do enjoy the risk and threat of the potential encounter that lies behind every corner. Along with the chance of friendly humorous encounters.

    If there existed a PVE/PVP server divide, I may find the likelihood of each encounter being an aggressive attacker type greatly increases as merchant and passive sailors become a rarity. For me the beauty lies in the unknown and the balance that a mix of players brings to the game. Not just one type of player or the other.

    That's just my thoughts on the subject

    I can understand the feeling. But there is alrady a high "shoot first" attitude on the servers. Maybe it would be a little more agressive but it won't really differ that much from today's standards.

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