PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop

@mechwarr said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@dlchief58 Perhaps I am the one misunderstanding, but I am pretty sure the 'mandatory' part of this is in regards to the grouping with another crew, not saying that event itself is mandatory to do.

Also, comparing this to Destiny is comparing vastly different games. Different activities, different amounts of activities, and different progression systems. A chair on a ridge does not equal a raid, IMHO.

In SoT, being a game criticized by players and media, for lack of content, perhaps gating new content (albeit a small amount) behind a mechanic that makes it difficult for some may not be the best approach.

I don't mind grouping with other crews, but it can be a pain, and a time-sink to do so. My wife and I had a great time with Meg, and added a few new friends because of it. This time, not the same experience. I would like to see some improvements to the ability to find other crews to try and work with, or incentive to repeat the tasks, either would help I think. I also think perhaps making it possible to solo/Duo/single crew it, but much harder to do so would be good for future events (similar to skull forts). I suppose that falls under the 'incentive to group up' category however.

@RevanJStone I'm still on the fence regarding forced co-op or not. But, aye, incentive to repeat would be a big help IMO too.

I have to disagree, the group events in Destiny and any other MMO are quite comparable. Raids, Trials of the Nine, and Nightfall Strikes all require group participation (and have no matchmaking either) to complete and are comparable to these group activities/events that Rare is running. Same as with group dungeons on ESO or Neverwinter.

I also think the people complaining about these events are doing so without reason, as I am sure Rare has planned some events that will not require groups to do. From what I see the people complaining need to make more friends or learn to use the tools available, such as LFG and Discord.

@scrubber89 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@genuine-heather said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@bathrobe-dave I think we can all agree that there is room for some improvement. But I'm not sure what the answer may be. Eliminating the multi-crew portion is not an answer, because that defeats the purpose of the entire thing. We know that allowing people to recruit others onto their server is also a path to abuse, because then friends could take over a whole server. I've yet to see a really viable solution offered. Do you have any ideas?

It's simple. Don't force trying to team up for things like this.

That's not a solution. The multi-crew part of the event is the point of the thing.

@bathrobe-dave I did the hungering deep multiple times including the final days of the event...the problem here is people give up too easy and want others to solve their problems...it happens in every game. (This gun is too strong, nerf it. This boss is too hard, make it scale to my lazy low level so i can enjoy killing him without putting in work). Its absurd and i dont support the claims is all im saying. But at this point we may as well agree to disagree.

@bathrobe-dave said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@genuine-heather said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@bathrobe-dave I think we can all agree that there is room for some improvement. But I'm not sure what the answer may be. Eliminating the multi-crew portion is not an answer, because that defeats the purpose of the entire thing. We know that allowing people to recruit others onto their server is also a path to abuse, because then friends could take over a whole server. I've yet to see a really viable solution offered. Do you have any ideas?

I agree.

Aside from an incentive to repeat (which only goes so far without abuse), the only other viable idea would be if during matchmaking the server reads the event status for each player. If any ship has a crew member that hasn't completed the cooperative portion of an active event, it would prioritize loading that crew into a server with other people who have crew members who haven't completed the event. This maintains that nobody is forced to complete or participate in the event, but the chances of encountering a ship that either is willing to or has incentive to help you improves.

That’s a reasonable suggestion. Unfortunately, it also separates those who have completed it and are willing to help others from those who need said help. I don’t believe it would increase the odds of finding cooperative crews very much, if at all.

@bathrobe-dave said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@wulvfeyn said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@bathrobe-dave I did the hungering deep multiple times including the final days of the event...the problem here is people give up too easy and want others to solve their problems...

That's very presumptive. I don't think that it is unfair for players to ask for a way to facilitate bringing crews who are trying to do the quests together. I had to do THD again three days in to help a friend and it took all night to find someone willing to help. I'm sorry, but there really wasn't anything particularly fun or enjoyable about spending 5-6 hours searching for someone willing to help us.

it happens in every game. (This gun is too strong, nerf it. This boss is too hard, make it scale to my lazy low level so i can enjoy killing him without putting in work).

Man, I'm not talking about nerfing a mechanic or making bosses easier to kill. I'm talking about either removing the cooperative requirement to these quests or facilitating a better way to bring crews looking to do these quests together. I'd rather get shot a million times in pvp by the OP gun, or spend days trying to defeat a challenging OP raid boss than to have to spend hours upon hours searching for a HUMAN to do the SELFLESS DEED of helping me for no other reason than the kindness of their bleeping hearts.

You're asking to alter the game to make things easier for some, which is what I'm getting at. And the whole point of these quests were to bring crews together. And because some people may not have a friendly experience, doesn't mean thats the experience they'll always have and if it is the case I wouldnt blame everyone else.

@ghostpaw This is really not complicated. Your ability to play content in a game you bought and payed for is determined by factors that are 100% out of your control. This is plain and simple bad game design. If you want to team up "no one is forcing you" to play solo or with another crew, but they also aren't locking you out of the "content" just because no one wan't to sit on a stupid chair with you.

@prodigy-burns said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

I'm fine with co-op specific challenges like the thrones, but the THD left an awful taste. I think Rare should feel ashamed of the fact a portion of players were not able to fully experience the update thanks to the two crew restriction. I don't care about exclusive skins, the update promised a giant shark which I never even saw; that is something that simply should not be allowed to happen. Everyone should be able to experience what's new in the update without relying on the courtesy of randoms.

My advice would be to just sail to the event location to see if people are doing it. There were crews there right up til last day.

@bathrobe-dave said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@wulvfeyn said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

You're asking to alter the game to make things easier for some, which is what I'm getting at. And the whole point of these quests were to bring crews together.

I'm asking to alter the game to make people doing this day 14 to have just as much ease as someone doing it day 1. These quests only bring crews together long enough for people to get their quests done, which is why it really stinks to do these the farther we get into the quest.

And because some people may not have a friendly experience, doesn't mean thats the experience they'll always have

And because some people may have super friendly experiences, doesn't mean that's the experience they'll always have. See how it works both ways?
^never said ive always had a friendly experience
And i dont see how theyre cut out of any content. They get enough from the single thrones for any temporary goodies so what's the problem?

@ghostpaw Yeah that last sentence didn't make sense(my keyboard keeps adding spaces and it's driving me insane). I'm saying that if they removed the requirement to team up with another crew, they are not stopping you from doing so. By requiring people to team up with another crew they ARE stopping you from being able access certain content. Which is BAD. From what i can tell most of the people who are against the change are both not able to see other peoples perspective/are selfish or really don't understand why compulsory game design is so bad in cases where you have no control over whether you can meet the requirements or not. Other people want to get on the thrones too, not just the people who were lucky enough to find willing players.

@lobofh said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@betsill dijo en PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

@ghostpaw This is really not complicated. Your ability to play content in a game you bought and payed for is determined by factors that are 100% out of your control. This is plain and simple bad game design. If you want to team up "no one is forcing you" to play solo or with another crew, but they also aren't locking you out of the "content" just because no one wan't to sit on a stupid chair with you.

This happens in any game with these kind of events, but in this one is in our hands, we just need to play with a cooperative mindset and not this KoS BS of some players.

In Fortnite PvE some of the events mean long and expensive (in resources) activities, as soon as you completed them you don't want to play them again. Here the activities are not such a big investment, to help a crew with the Megalodon or sit in a throne are easy, we just need to end this silly mantra of "kill, kill, kill".

The game is fine, players need to sail with the wind.

It wasn't "help a crew with the Megalodon or sit on a throne." If it was easy for you then you are lucky/played it on the first day or 2. It is near impossible to find players to help with the thrones right now(let alone in a reasonable time) just as it was with the hungering deep. I played HD the first day and it WAS easy for me and my 2 friends. However, I got 2 other friends on a week later and despite playing 2 days for 2 hourse and the 4 hours, constantly server hopping to find another crew to help, we had no choice but to accept that they wouldn't be able fight the shark. This is terrible game design plain and simple.
as for "we just need to end this silly mantra of "kill, kill, kill"." this is exactly the problem with the people who defend this compelled gameplay. You think the that other people should play the game the way YOU want them to. What's wrong with the mangra of "kill kill kill"? Nothing! If someone wan't to Pvp because that's what the like then who are you to say it's wrong? Let people play how they want. If Rare was trying to force players to PVP to play this DLC i would be saying it's just as bad, because some people don't want to.

@prodigy-burns Somehow this isn't obvious to these people and it blows my mind lol

Stop doing the weekly events then, the game was made with social grouping the main idea behind it.why do people choose to play these games then complain about it.........this is what it's creators wanted, it's been repeatedly stated over and over again. You can play the game without doing weekly events or just do the single group parts of them. But the weekly events aren't going to stop being social events. I love this about the game. Also start getting in on the first day of event. Everyone has time everyday you could get on.

@lobofh I'm all for encouraging cooperation, but they aren't encouraging it, they are requiring it! Just an example of a game that does cooperation right. Warframe is a 4 person coop shooter, it is almost entirely PVE, has tons of diferent mission types and quests, but it NEVER forces it's players to team up. You can play every single bit of warframes content solo(even though it can make it far more difficult(though sometimes it makes it easier)) if you want because Digital Extremes respects their players and understand that some people like to play differently.

@bathrobe-dave i get what you're saying...and it really does stink. But maybe Rare made these time limited because its not their intent for everyone to complete it. And who's to say the event won't come back? Im just saying the game might not be broke...just peoples patience.

@prodigy-burns maybe try harder...hows that for advice? Was trying to be nice and got spat on. Hmmm...everybody does have the same chance..releases same time for all

@lobofh Warframe being PVE doesn't matter. The point is that most people cooperate because they genuinely want to because it will make the experience funner, easier, less frustrating, etc. NOT because they have no choice. Since when is teaming up with 3 players in a galleon not cooperation?
"so they need to encourage coop forcing crews to cooperate." This is a paradoxical sentence lol
"If these events would not force cooperation there would be crews camping them to run mindless PvP."
Why? does cooperation not add value to the experience? If not then that shows just how big a problem it is to force cooperation if no one want's to do it otherwise.
"How many forts did you make with another crew?"
I've done one with another crew. It was interesting, but not something i was a fan of because I don't like wondering if i'm gonna get shot in the back. The HD I did with another crew was fun though(mostly because I knew that they didn't get anything from trying to kill me), and I probably would have done it with another crew regardless of whether it was forced(if there was another crew around).

@porkchop87 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

I really like the variety of these new adventures, don't get me wrong. But why on Earth would you require me to engage socially with the general population, IN A PIRATE GAME no less, to accomplish a time-limited task? I could understand needing to get a full crew to do a task, but I just don't understand this need to make me search for and convince some random to 'effing help me. Especially when most players have already completed the tasks in the first few days and Mr. Unlucky strolls in week 2 to attempt to find a willing partner. I truly hope you stop forcing co-op work with randoms in future adventures. For me and the crew(s) I've sailed with, it actually takes fun OUT of the game. I'm still trying to love this game, but the aggravation grows every time I'm forced to attempt to work with enemy randoms. I know I'm not alone in this. For the love of Pete, please end this madness.

If I have the option to do something with another crew once every 30 days, it's actually kind of nice to hang up the gloves once in a while. Breaks up the monotony of doing the same thing every night; Athena's and fight off pirates, Skullforts and fight off pirates, spawning into an outpost and fight off pirates. But if that's what you want to do, you have that choice. That's the beauty of this game, you are never forced to do anything. You make your own story. It's refreshing to me to get to do these types of events, but it's not for everyone. Also the bone jacket and hat are ugly, you get little to no xp for handing in dubloons, and the money is just money. You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled for them to design an event that's catered to you specifically. When I see people complain about this, it tells me they have no patience. You also assume every random is an enemy, so you have already failed the event to begin with.

@lobofh If they do then it's a bad thing. Destiny is a great example cooperation done wrong(when it comes to raids and nightfall strikes). If you want players to do something you MUST give them the tools to be able to accomplish it(and no, the whim's and availability of other players is not a valid tool(especially when those players can kill you)). Fornite save the world is a bad game, and it would very likely be dead by now if it wasn't saved by battle royal.
"In a PvPvE game like this one they need other tricks to force cooperation."
Why? whether playing with another crew is better or worse is ENTIRELY preference. There is good reason to force one play style over another. Nothing is stopping players from working together. People have been working together on skeleton forts since the game came out and IT WASN'T FORCED.