@xshadovvhunterx I will say it has alot now, I can usually go 2-3 hours before seeing someone close enough to get my heart racing.
The OP has no intention to play the game as intended, as they are going to all this effort to get things "changed"
Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community
@biter-wylie hmmmmm....so do you chalk this up to too little content after you reach Pirate Legend? Or does it seem like less pvp players or a lower current player base issue?
@badassfro "bounties" is actually something I'm covering. And how do you know my true intentions? You've done nothing but criticize me even though I've not been hostile to you. I'm not attacking your way of playing, and I dont plan on jeapordizing anyone else's. I mean, geeze, you sound like real-life pirate =p
@grqk said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:
@biter-wylie hmmmmm....so do you chalk this up to too little content after you reach Pirate Legend? Or does it seem like less pvp players or a lower current player base issue?
Q: too little content after you reach Pirate Legend?
I feel I absolutely got every pennies worth of the £60 I paid for Sea of Thieves. So I have no hard feeling leaving the game. I would happily pay another £60 for Rare to give me another 7 months gaming on Sea of Thieves. But I would go so far as to say Pirate Legend is as it stands the end of the game in adventure mode.
Q: Or does it seem like less pvp players.
There is absolutely much much less PvP players today than 1 year ago. Anyone who played then will remember you could not relax for a second as you would be attacked. Today is easy mode comparison. Is it a problem? I don't know, it would certainly not have been as enjoyably getting to Pirate Legend without that need to be alert.
Q: lower current player base issue? Not sure of player numbers myself.
@grqk Excuse me, I have not only critisied you, it was your ideas, and the method of how you are going about it. Honestly I would much rather crew up with you, and have a good session to show you the error of your ways.
I understand you are well meaning but im more worried about the unindended consequences
Someone else has posted this on another thread that covers the same thing (all be it with zero mention to an almighty essay that is intended to solve all ills)
@hynieth said in Why should they add PVE servers?:
@bugaboo-bill Yeah I know what you mean. I want to give PvE people the PvE experience they want. However my experience with past games that had open PvP in them has proven that giving people the choice for this easy mode will have them choose that 90% of the time and will just increase the hostilities for those who don't.
I'll give an example:
Now there's 100% Adventure mode people who have PvP enabled (logical because there's no other choice)
Imagine a PvE mode coming, maybe 10% moves to this PvE mode. The number of people just going about without hostility wil slightly increase.
Now imaginge a few months in, new players join the game and old players will stop playing.
So imagine thre's a 30% shift, this 30% will probably for the most part Choose PvE mode and stick to this (I can't blame them I'd have chosen this as well). So I estimate that 25% of these new players will chose PvE. Now we have 35% of the players in PvE mode and 65% in Normal Adventure mode, now imagine if 10% of the players is PvP focussed. Usually I have a 1 in 10 chanse to encounter them but even if we see a slight initial shift towards a PvE server I now have a 1 in 5.5 chance to encounter a PvP player that's almost double!This is why I don't want PvE servers for the most part. I don't want to have a gameplay mode dominated by PvP ouside of the Arena.
I like sailing peacefull seas too. I love how this game was designed and I agree with this design. Forcing me into PvE mode because all the nice people and fun interactions are disapearing would be horrible to me.
@badassfro it's useless... He's "Done with the game, please Rare read" now he's 'done with understanding, please reason read' too ... Let's just wait for the UNIQUE essay with arguments NOBODY EVER said before favoring the PvE servers.
Good post. A positive approach to addressing a topic which (inexplicably) receives a lot of venomous animosity on Reddit????
My only suggestion is that a PvE mode should infringe on Adventure Mode as little as possible. I hope that that makes sense? Sorry, my English is academic.
I commend you on your bravery approaching the community for positive feedback on this feature. And I am interested in reading your essay when you have finished it.
I think a PvE only mode is a terrible idea. When I play Sea of thieves I love the organic interactions with other crews. If I go on with zero intention of getting into PvP then all encounters are scary and rewarding. Let’s say I have a sloop full of treasure and I’m my way to an outpost. I see another ship sailing towards me and I have no idea their intention. I’m thinking about getting ready for an attack. I man the cannon and I see them doing the same, but instead we just sail peacefully past each other as we were only worried the other ship would fire first.
When I’m on a tall tale, I’m scared of other crews so I park on the far side of an island deliberately so that I’m harder to spot. I frequently scan the horizon, it makes my heart pound and the whole experience is so much more exciting. The adrenaline rush from a successful cash in whilst being chased is what makes the game so exciting.
Adding a PvE server wouldn’t appeal to me. I’m not in it for the grind (despite achieving pirate legend status) it’s about the stories along the way. The interactions with other crews, both good and bad. Giving players a safe haven to play would leave me in the mode with killers and it’ll be clear everyone’s intentions left on the server. Removing any mystique.
If I see a brig harassing a sloop then me and my friends would help out the sloop.
PvPvE is what makes sea of thieves feel so special. Removing it will kill the game for me.
The games been out for over a year now. It’s okay for the game to be not for you. Not every game has to be. But in over a year if you still haven’t gotten on with it and want it to be something it’s not then maybe you should be looking else where. Just my two cents. Great game at launch and an even greater game now. I hope Rare continues to enrich this world and doesn’t drastically go against their vision of what it should be.
@grqk
I'm going to try to help your essay then. It may go against my and others liking but here we go.Players can have this PvE server but it is the size of the Arena and 5 ships will be there with you doing the same. Why the size of the Arena you may wonder? Because PVE doesn't need an adventure size mode. Also to add, if progress is counted in said server then I would ask that any Legend progress would only count in adventure mode. There's a start for you sir.
@grqk I feel like I am doing your homework for you. Traditionally you would do your own literature review (search) before you start an essay. Be careful about being emotionally invested in your solution. It will blind you to issues others raise and will make you defensive. You’ve posted a number of “my solution addresses that” replies that tell me you are already very certain, though you seem reluctant to share details about your idea.
PVE-only servers will break the symbiotic relationship between those working on voyages to obtain gold, and those looking to rob them. Both groups actually need the other for the game to work as intended. It is not about PVP vs PVE players. Most players vacillate between completing voyages on their own and hunting others who do; the groups are not mutually exclusive.
There are a number of threats to your progress as you voyage. These include several types of skeletons, the kraken, storms, cursed ships, underwater hazards, and other players. Those threats are part of the game's DNA. Other players are just more effective usually than the other threats. But if you just pretend the other ships are very aggressive and creative NPCs with a wide "pull" radius then you can stop personalizing being attacked. Very few people angrily post about being killed repeatedly by the skeletons (the ultimate campers with unlimited respawns). Why is it different? Skeletons are better fighters (especially with guns and cannons) than most players even though they are not as adaptable and creative as players.
If you create PVE servers, then a significant number of players would use them to gather gold and reputation in safety, then jump to vanilla servers for combat. The problem is, then the vanilla players have an even smaller chance of gaining anything from fighting since treasure-gathering occurs mainly on the PvE servers. As a result, the vanilla servers would be filled with just ship to ship combat but no reward for winning the battle. It dilutes the community. This would drive away most players looking for the mix of both PvP and PvE that drew most of us to the game and keeps us coming back. It fundamentally changes the experience for EVERYONE.
Attending to the PVE content will be much more difficult on the vanilla servers since more passive players have left. I like the current balance and do not want to see it made easier or harder. I hated seeing this happen with Arena and I have noticed a change in population behavior.
Meanwhile, working on the PVE content on passive servers will be trivial. If players are free to bounce back and forth, then any admiration and respect we might currently feel about another player's "progress" is greatly diminished. Do not underestimate the power of in-game recognition on player behavior. I personally do not care if someone has what I have, but many players want a way to demonstrate their progress. Before someone dismisses this, think about the impact things like black belts, trophies, selfies on the top of Everest, and public awards have on people’s motivation. Recognition is the reason leaderboards, achievements, unlockable skins, and so on exist within games. This is important to people and taking it away would decimate some games. Rare adjusted some of the game's commendations to make them easier to achieve, even though some players had already reached the more difficult goal. That part of the community was enraged over this because it diluted the meaning for them, and many of them quit. It is not my thing, but I know it drives a lot of people. Strip it away and there will be consequences.
Some scenarios to address if you want to just turn off player-to-player damage:
- Can another player jump on your ship and drop your anchor?
- Can they steal your chests/skulls/animals?
- Can they blow up your gun powder barrels?
- How will you stop them from jumping on your ship and raising your sails if you are traveling?
- How will you stop them from lowering your sails and raising your anchor if you are parked?
- What recourse will you have if someone jumps aboard your ship and starts tossing your gear overboard?
- What if they just come aboard and take cannon balls, planks, and food from your barrels?
- You arrive at an outpost. As you make your way to the gold hoarder tent you see a gun powder barrel at the tent and a player waiting next to you. If you drop the chest the then they can grab it. If you move to turn it in then they will just blow up the gun powder when you are close enough. Your options are stand there forever with the chest or give it to them. You can't shoot them and if you drop the chest long enough to blow up the barrel then they will simply grab the chest. You're stuck. Sure they can introduce logic that checks to see who shot the barrel and decide if that will harm you, but there are so many aspects that Rare would have to anticipate and code for.
- You are on Mermaid's Hideaway on your way back to your ship with a capitan's chest. You see someone sailing away on your ship. What's your plan? Report them for griefing?
- Let's say you and some friends are clearing out a fort. You're on the final wave when a crew of fort-vultures show up. You can't stop them. They kill the boss and stroll off with the key. What's your plan then? They've done nothing wrong. It was never your key to claim since objects belong to the environment until you use them or turn them in (an important point to keep in mind at all times). They can stand there and just wait until you give up to do something else.
- Can boats damage each other if they crash? If you say 'no' then they can ram you and block you with immunity. If you say 'yes' then they can ultimately sink you and you can't stop them. Maybe they pass through one another. That introduces a batch of new issues and coding for the programmers.
This is not as simple as turning off player-to-player damage. Just doing that suddenly creates an incredible variety of new problems that Rare has to address and police. Sure, some of this might be addressed with new lines of code, but demanding a PvE server is asking Rare to develop a new game using a SoT skin. Very expensive, which is what others have said several times already.
@inboundbomb said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:
So yeah a TRUE PVEVP player here. The grind was real but so enjoyable because I truly understood what the game was about and not what I wanted it to be.
Soooo... since I'm not a Pirate Legend and don't grind at all.... does that mean I don't understand what the game is about?
Is it about the grind?
@grqk said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:
@badassfro like I said, I think the change I would be suggesting wouldn't hurt the PVPVE community. My plan isn't to shaft any side. I only want to play the game how I and apparently several others would like to.
Then just share your idea and skip this dance. You had an idea but, before you feel comfortable sharing it, you are asking us to rehash arguments that have been covered in depth since before the game was released. Your idea has most likely been suggested before over the last few years. The community has been debating this since long before the game was released. These are new to you, but not to us.
@va_ca-hombre said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:
Why you cryptic little fortune cookie, you. =D
Thank you sir. I still don't know why your name is a bad word.
@inboundbomb said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:
I still don't know why your name is a bad word.
Cause of my bad reputation and explicit attitude!
I've decided to copy and paste the following on every daily PvE server thread:
Be Glad You've Been Sunk
We've all been there. You have a boatload of loot, you're minding your own business, and then you get sunk by some other players. It feels bad, doesn't it? It's happened to me, it's happened to you, and it'll happen to both of us again. But, despite how bad that feels in the moment, your experince is much better for it.As it is, the only challenge in Sea of Thieves is other pirates. All PvE threats can be negated by simply keeping one's treasure in a rowboat. If it weren't for other players, no one would ever lose in Sea of Thieves. Can you fathom how boring this game would be if you couldn't lose? That's why a PvE server would be so dull, because there would be no stakes. Either you don't sink, or you come back 10 minutes later and get all your stuff back.
This would destory the entire game. PvE servers would become the best way to grind. Hence, most progression focused players (most players) will play there exclusively. With the lackluster PvE content, and the removal of risk, this game would get insanely boring. No one would switch back due to PvE being the dominant strategy. People would quit in droves. Meanwhile, everyone in the PvP servers would never get any loot, so attacking would be pointless, and so they would also quit. Game's dead.
Be glad you lose your treasure. If you didn't, this game would've died long ago.
@grqk said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:
@nwo-azcrack so I think I can argue literally every point I've seen on the forum, but the only one I'm not sure I can is your comment about what Rare envisioned. And I'll admit, I think you're right. I've seen the Twitter posts of one of the devs saying (paraphrasing) their whole plan was a game where you see another ship on the horizon not knowing exactly how it would play out.
This!
And i said it also before...Will pve Servers make Adventure a pure PvP mode where every sail on the horizon is hostile for sure or will it keep the unpredictabiklity and uncertainty about other players. What is a core design of the Adventure mode. It's and should not be KoS.
PvE Server take that away and the game is nor designed to pure PvE Achievement Hunters in peace neither to pure PvPirates killing on sight and for killings sake.
Both groups come up with their concerning and issues they have with their playstyle when they miss out the design and vision of a social experience.I was against PvE then i was heavily pro pve ask some here, they "hated" me too :-)
I am split about it as i said in my first post.
I tend to say no changes needed.2million new players since Anniversary update, 8 million in total iirc.
Sure most logged in and logged out a minute later, we maybe have 200k active players or 750k i dont know.Read this already ?
Give it a read maybe.https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/93355/the-sea-of-thieves-need-no-change/
Understand the design and what it is really about: have fun with friends and strangers dont exagerate about gaming, dont game the system, play for fun!
Second winning, loosing, progressing completely seconded as it gives you nothing.We need players playing together and even competing with a smile on their faces like shoot hoops competition with your friends in the backyard, not gamers taking it all personal and ragequit because they lost something.
Read both.@grqk said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:
@badassfro "bounties" is actually something I'm covering. And how do you know my true intentions? You've done nothing but criticize me even though I've not been hostile to you. I'm not attacking your way of playing, and I dont plan on jeapordizing anyone else's. I mean, geeze, you sound like real-life pirate =p
Research it, it's highly exploitable i did explain that in numerous threads.
As a former PK in other games, what are way more hardcore than SoT, this would have encouraged me even more to pk.
It's not what you want. Seriously.@bugaboo-bill could not agree more this was an example of how the OP should have been coming up with solutions to balance the game and not create/change it into something it's not.
As well as being an example of how non of these ideas are new. I have nothing against the OP apart from the high level of arrogance that was brought to this thread.
Thank you @Ghostpaw and @Bugaboo-Bill for explaining in a better way than I could.
@ViperishEmu2992
This is why I think if they make a pve mode, it should be like arena where it's pve inclined, but not pure pve. Maybe where sea monsters are attacking an outpost, and everyone gets rewarded based on how long you survived.@GRQK
My problem with private/pve servers are that if they're a grind mode, it would remove a player type from adventure mode, making it less chaotic. I'm fine with a rewardless private mode. This is because people could make events and practice, but would have to play adventure for rewards, so they're incentivised to play it.@blazedrake100 said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:
@GRQK
My problem with private/pve servers are that if they're a grind mode, it would remove a player type from adventure mode, making it less chaotic. I'm fine with a rewardless private mode. This is because people could make events and practice, but would have to play adventure for rewards, so they're incentivised to play it.Definitely turn off any rewards. But I still think the players seeking a PvE experience would be better served with private servers. It avoids the griefing problems that a public PvE server would lead to. And it also helps content creators who want to create videos within the SoT world. But progress on private server should not translate to progression in the public servers.
Ahoy @badassfro ,
As per the Forum Rules we all must remain respectful towards all other community members when posting on the forums. I have moderated your post as it was not in accordance with these rules, failure to remain respectful of all community members will result in a temporary ban from the forums.
Please read and abide by the forum rules going forward.
Thanks!
@Hombre
Wait so your name means Cow man?
What the? Anyway like @Ghostpaw i think said, i always look forward to your posts. Players take this game way to seriously and have no sense of humor on these forums.@nwo-azcrack said in Creating an essay over PVE-only implementation, need help from the community:
Wait so your name means Cow man?
Indeed. Like a cowboy, but I'm a cowman. And as we all know....
Sea of thieves has a great balance between PVE and PVP. Removing either destroys the game. I probably am attacked more then I initiate it, although I participate in both. I enjoy chasing as much as being chased. But mostly I like the feeling of always being vulnerable. “That ship over there, is it a new player with no idea what they are doing, or a PVP legend swimming over with a keg?” It’s a constant risk evaluation and being alert.
Arena in its current state feels empty. It’s half a game. You always know it’s going to be PVP so there is no wondering. There is no balance and it doesn’t really work. I know they are working on expanding it, maybe it will improve. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a blast in small doses, but on its own it’s not a game I would have played for a month let alone a year and a bit.
That being said, I have gotten my money back from this game 10 fold. If Rare decides to undermine their vision and give into the PVE only minority, that’s their choice. It will be disappointing, as it’s been a great year and a bit. This would be the end of the sea of thieves for me.
Save sea of thieves, don’t write your essay
Heres the thing, been playing 1 yr. Pl a6... im awful at pvp, but id never remove it... heres why.... the fundamental component that makes this game unique is the uncertainty of the encounter...... could be a fight or maybe friendly..... each encounter pans out based on how you manage it as an individual.. thats why i think games like fortnite are a load of old pony, cos i know everyones intentions.. thats boring!... i was against the arena, but i let em have that 1.... please dont break something unique
cheers to you for compiling hundreds of played out posts into an essay lol... Hate to break it to you but nothing you say is going to correct the fact that adventure mode is already dying due to many pvp players hitting arena. If public adventure dies out, how is pve modes going to be what keeps the game making money ? All the complainers who just want to sail around a pretty world are going to realize how stale the game can get and fast.
include the rebuttle to this in your essay...
What's the main threat going to be? AI skelly ships and skeleton crews that basically serve in place of what would be human attackers? Does that reallllllly make you feel safer that you got sunk from AI instead of real life players?@grqk Why I am against a PvE Mode / Passive mode as many people suggest on these forums as it boils down to: a game mode that offers the same experience, rewards and game-play as the Adventure mode (minus the PvP (biggest challenge on the seas).
Making a game mode that will and shall compete directly with the main (original) game mode is just a bad idea and punishes everyone that isn't 1) A pure PvE player or 2) A pure PvP player... in short the major majority of players. It makes us choose at the menu screen: Want to be friendly today or not? Pick accordingly, instead of play as you want, be it friendly, hostile, ninja, a mix of anything, etc. This is a shared world and lets keep it shared by promoting to play together instead of making a static choice at the menu screen. If anyone believes that a majority of players will risk their treasure in PvPvE mode without any reasons other than internal motivation.... really... why would they? Unless you are a stubborn pirate that refuses to take the easy route, there way more people that will use it in the 'friendly' or 'hostile' choice, eliminating the majority of 'mixed' encounters on the seas.
For those that try to claim that the game is pure PvP already is just false, even in complains about PvP often you hear: After 2 or 3 hours of play... some "griefing" PvP Sweaty Try-Hard came by and took our loot with no effort. While they do not understand the principle of a shared world, we all have a say and vigilance, awareness, proper choices and getting better at the game in general will allow you to have a bigger say in the actions that happen when interacting with others.
This is a shared world, you will encounter other pirates. It is all about awareness in this game, as this allows you to make your choices based on your preference of pirating. Therefore if you want to PvE only, with any skill and willingness can pick choice number one each time.
First choice; the non-engaging option and choose to sail off, this might mean your plans need to adapt. Being flexible is key to a no-interaction experience.
The second choice is to interact. Be it friendly, neutral or hostile. This carries a risk with it, as you are not the only one in a say in the story and there always bigger, better, bloodcrazed, etc. players out there. You would be surprised with the right approach how often a truce can be struck.
The unwillingness to communicate is key. People claim they want friendly interactions and refuse to speak or explain the situation, hold grudges, shoot first out of fear and yet expect compassion, understanding and us to be friends. That isn't how open world PvPvE works... the safest option is remove the threat - Battle. Then when they communicate and the other is semi-friendly they demand an alliance... as if that means anything and isn't a liability. Get to know the people you are friendly with. Negotiate truces out of a strong position, do the basics right... the majority of times when I am called 'toxic', 'griefer' and even a hacker is usually when they are just flat out playing horrible. I base my interactions on the other crew, I am friendly most of the time and I PvE, but seriously some opportunities even I cannot let slide by... if you don't bother doing the basics of sailing properly, basics of awareness, etc. and then leave a bunch of treasure for the grabs or a skeleton keg in the bottom of your ship and me unattended.... I am going to use that to my advantage. Even friendly people tend to be opportunists... presents are always nice.
Learning a game is part of playing the game... yes this game has little tutorial, as equals you can do what I can. Yet... there a lot of things to learn and isn't an excuse for a PvE mode. (I am not against more tutorial or anything, knowledge is power after all, but a PvE mode is not a tutorial)
The game offers the tool already to be very passive, you can avoid 95% of all player interaction if you are decent (not good, just decent). Many play for hours before meeting or being forced in a situation with other people and yet the focus is: They stole my 'progress' ... which btw is just there to give you a goal during your session, in the end we don't gain benefits from it other than being able to look more fancy.
This is a Game, your pirate is not always going to win. In games we win and lose, they are challenges that are given to us and for crying out loud in a PvP enabled multiplayer the biggest challenges are the other people. The entitlement of people: I put in effort in a game and therefore I must be given my shiny pixels is mindboggling, for an older gamer as myself. I remember the days where games were really brutal - no tutorials, no youtube guides, buy a magazine, read the booklet that came with the game and figure it out. Do I like losing no, do I get annoyed, frustrated etc. yes, mainly with myself though. I get the feeling, but it is part of games and especially games with PvP. Learn, improve, adapt and overcome that is a part of games and even then there's always someone that is better.
If we want a PvE mode, make it like the Arena: Something new, a multi-crew challenge with different puzzles, sailing challenges against elements while taking on sea creatures, etc. Stories that in scope and difficulty would be nearly impossible to achieve in the Adventure mode, like 5 crew challenges (with the option to fill up all of them with your friends for all I matter) or take it on in a closed 1 crew for ultra hard mode.
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