Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system

  • Wollcrauft

    I apologize if this has already been talked about somewhere else. I haven't seen anyone expressing a similar opinion beyond what a quick search will find so I figured I would post mine somewhere.

    So far only seeing videos of people playing/talking about the game, and not actually playing in the alpha myself, I have learned that your ship/ship size is currently determined by how many people you have in your party or crew. Which is a b****r to me personally.

    I would very much prefer having to start out on a small ship, regardless of how many crew members I had, and having to play to either earn gold to purchase ships, stealing them, or perhaps other fun ways to commandeer them. I realize that this could mean a large group could be stuck on a ship that doesn't take advantage of their crew size at the start, and that 1-2 players could eventually be operating a ship that is much too large to be efficiently commanded for a small crew, but I believe having the choice is what’s fun and important.

    Furthermore, I know this will probably require things not in the game now, like having more than two playable ships, but if it ever did eventually get to this point it would be amazing.

    To simplify and summarize what I mean: Basically I want different types of purchasable ships (through gold in game, not pay to win) and those ships not to be determine by crew size. To keep everyone on the same playing field the unlockable/purchasable ships don't have to be more powerful, it could be purely cosmetic/design choices.

    Cheers!

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  • PattyThicc
    Founder

    All I ask for is for purchasable ships in a bottle that grow into the actual ship

  • KnifeLife
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    @Wollcrauft
    Ahoy there! Due to Rare wanting all players being on an even playing field and the only difference between people being skill i dont think this feature will be in the game.

    However that we are aware off you will be ablw to customise bits of your ship diffrent decorations. How deep that customisation goes though, i do not know :)

  • Zombie P1ague
    Marauder
    Insider

    I am sorry to inform you that SOT is not a pay to win game. There are safety features in game when you try to treat it as such..... I do not recommend this....
    alt text

  • Wollcrauft

    @KnifeLife Maybe I didn't do a good enough job explaining my vision, Rare could definitely keep everyone on even grounds even with what I meant. They could make it so that you start on a basic ship that maximizes your crew size, and then have the ability of getting different/cooler ships later down the line. And those ships shouldn't be more powerful then the starter ships (to keep everyone on the same level) they could just be different designs, different types of ships, they could add brigantines, sloops, frigates, caravel's, etc.

    In addition, they could make it so that after your starter ship that is determined by your crew size, that you have the ability to pick/purchase/unlock any of those other ships that you want regardless of crew size. Which would give extra challenge to the game having to command a ship that is meant for a crew larger than 1-2.

    @zombie-p1ague I don't know what I said that made it seem like I was for pay to win, the only purchasing of anything that I said was purchasing ships through gold earned in-game.

    To simplify and summarize what I mean: Basically I want different types of purchasable ships (through gold in game, not pay to win) and those ships not to be determine by crew size. To keep everyone on the same playing field the unlockable/purchasable ships don't have to be more powerful, it could be purely cosmetic/design choices.

  • KnifeLife
    Commander
    Insider
    Founder

    @wollcrauft Ohh don't get me wrong, i complexly agree and love the idea. I was just saying what i believe Rare are doing. But nothing has been 100% confirmed yet so who knows!! :D

  • ANUBIS0311
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @wollcrauft I like the idea of purchasable ships, and the size of crews not really being regulated to the size of the ship, but that still puts people at a SEVERE disadvantage. For instance you and 2 buddies hop on a sloop, this would be pretty effect based on where everything is located. But if you came across a Big ship, with 4 more cannons than yours, and let's 12 guys on board, unless you out run them, you'll literally die. There would be little to no way to defeat them in a straight up fight. All them using cannons, snipers, pistols, and the like, it would be a bloodbath. That's not to say that with some sneakiness, you may be able do something. But still at a severe disadvantage, which is what Rare is trying to avoid.

  • CptnCuttlefish
    Founder

    @wollcrauft you say you want everyone on the same playing field, but not to be confined by crew size. Crew size is the playing field. 4 ppl on a sloop is far stronger than 2 on a sloop. And I know you said max crew size, well that's already in the game to prevent such shenanigans. The crew sizes are there to limit what each ship can do. They might add different types of ships later on, perhaps even on release, but I doubt it.

    A lot of people are asking for more ships, but for right now, to get better looking ships, all you have to do is buy cosmetics. It's not pay to win and keeps everything in balance.

  • KaptenBloood

    Sounds good! Anyone who actually know anything about this game regardig progression, not only with ships? It's very unclear to me, thoug i been watching all movies there is. If the only progression you can make is to get new "quests" from a trading company, for me that will kill the game in like 1 week top. To be able to unlock better ships would really boost the game. Everybody cant have everything, if you play a lot you should get rewarded, sound like Rare is relying way to much on some kind of "shared communist experience", it will not last. A game like this needs depth to it.
    If i totally missed out on were to find info like this, plz ignore my post=).
    And who many ppl can u be on one ship/party?

  • Wollcrauft

    I guess I hadn't put much thought about having too many people on a small ship and possible advantages it could bring and I definitely agree that it would be rough (although to my knowledge there's nothing stopping people from communicating ingame to form a massive sniping death squad on the bow of someone's ship atm). I guess if they were to do it they could get rid of minimum crew limits but keep max to avoid that.

    Also this is another discussion but having ship max crew sizes while being able to form a fleet would be sick.

  • CptnCuttlefish
    Founder

    @averagestraw199 the actual progression is in customization. You can get cooler ships by customizing them how you wish, though that aspect wasn't present in the alpha. RARE has already stated, and this has been parrot ed numerous times, that there will be no status progression. Everyone's cutlets will do the same damage, gave the same swing speed, and same blocking as everyone elses. The difference is in how it looks in cosmetics. This will be the same for everything in the game. The only real differences I've seen will be in the types if weapons and types of ships. RARE might add more later down the line, but for right now we have the mobile sloop and the powerful galleon.

  • CptnCuttlefish
    Founder

    @wollcrauft the minimum crew size for both a galleon and a sloop is 1. You are correct, nothing is stopping multpile crews from working together to snipe other single ship crews, and I am almost certain fleets will be an unofficial thing. Also, as a side note, don't put too much thought into snipers. I know it's not the topic of this thread, but ppl are talling about it. We know almost nothing about this weapon except that it has a scope on it. I really don't want people blowing this particular thing out of the water just yet.

  • Wollcrauft

    @cptncuttlefish Poor choice in words on my part, didn't actually mean the "sniper" they're adding, I meant just a firing line of people shooting whatever they've got, oops :)

  • PandemicPrawn0
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    Interesting points made here.
    I'm not sure I have a strong opinion either way honestly. But one thing I will say about ships in general is I'm not a fan of how disposable they appear to be within the game.
    I think having your ship respawn via mermaid should cost a set amount of gold.
    This would make the ship a more valuable asset to the crew and may give the more aggressive players pause for thought about how or why they engage with others.
    If it costs your crew say 5000 gold? for a new ship, chances are you would value the one you have a lot more, and not go charging into every encounter.

  • SpruceTexas689
    Founder

    @pandemicprawn0 said in Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system:

    I'm not a fan of how disposable they appear to be within the game.
    I think having your ship respawn via mermaid should cost a set amount of gold.
    This would make the ship a more valuable asset to the crew and may give the more aggressive players pause for thought about how or why they engage with others.
    If it costs your crew say 5000 gold? for a new ship, chances are you would value the one you have a lot more, and not go charging into every encounter.

    100% agree. This one of my top 3 issues. And if you're broke and can't afford a ship then you should have to join another crew and work your way back up.

  • InitialBrick
    Rogue

    I wasn't able to play any of the technical alpha or anything along those lines so I'm not completely sure on how everything works, so you're saying that you spawn with a certain size of ship due to the amount of people you have? And whose ship is it? I was really hoping to be able to customize my own ship and then maybe put it up against my friends and see how their ships hold up, is this not going to be possible? If everyone's sailing round in the same ships then how is there any diversity? I understand there's some customization but that doesn't change the whole look and shape of the ship.

  • SpruceTexas689
    Founder

    @initialbrick said in Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system:

    how is there any diversity?

    Sadly there doesn't seem to be any. Rare is deathly afraid of any sort of inequality or imbalance, economic, strategic or other.

  • CptnCuttlefish
    Founder

    @pandemicprawn0 Make it a percentage of what you have. No one will enjoy not being able to sail anymore, especially if they found a crew they particularly like. I'd say 20% of your current gold, and your quest has failed, meaning you'd have to get a new scroll. How's that sound?

  • CptnCuttlefish
    Founder

    @wollcrauft Oh alright then. I just didn't want people to get on that particular argument is all =3

  • InitialBrick
    Rogue

    @sprucetexas689 Does that mean if I join a server solo, will I be in a server with a bunch of other solos or what? I understand it's unfair for the bigger ship to be against the smaller one or the big crew against the small crew but I think it would make it a lot more fun running from the bigger ones or just trying to avoid them. I really wish they would release some information on this.

  • PandemicPrawn0
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    @cptncuttlefish
    That does sound reasonable. It shouldn't be a hard barrier to playing the game.
    But a ship need to be a pirate's number one asset. Your progression within the game is dependent on it, so I would have thought there should be a penalty in game for treating her poorly.

  • SpruceTexas689
    Founder

    @initialbrick said in Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system:

    @sprucetexas689 Does that mean if I join a server solo, will I be in a server with a bunch of other solos or what? I understand it's unfair for the bigger ship to be against the smaller one or the big crew against the small crew but I think it would make it a lot more fun running from the bigger ones or just trying to avoid them. I really wish they would release some information on this.

    No, if the final game is anything like the alpha (which is a big "if") then they will not confine solo/duo players to their own servers - the ships are mixed up so you'll be able to face off against a bigger ship. By the way, it's not really unfair to play against a bigger ship, I would say it's maybe even the opposite. My buddy and I were playing as a duo on a small ship, running circles around bigger ships and sinking them all day long.

  • InitialBrick
    Rogue

    @sprucetexas689 that's good, By the way in the alpha was anyone different than others did everyone have the same ships and everything? And im still confused on how spawning in a game works.

  • SpruceTexas689
    Founder

    @initialbrick said in Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system:

    @sprucetexas689 that's good, By the way in the alpha was anyone different than others did everyone have the same ships and everything? And im still confused on how spawning in a game works.

    Not all the same. There are 2 ship models in the game - a 2 person sloop and a 4 person galleon. Which ship you get depends whether you join a 2 person or a 4 person crew. If you decide to play solo, you get the 2 person sloop which is a bit tough to manage by yourself but it's doable. 4 person galleon is hard to manage even with 4 people.

  • InitialBrick
    Rogue

    @sprucetexas689 Do you think there will be more ship designs when the game fully releases?

  • ResidentApple12
    Captain
    Insider

    I understand keeping a level playing field, but slowly upgrading your ship with gold seems like a fun progression not in the game.

  • InitialBrick
    Rogue

    @sprucetexas689 Also if you decide to Randomly join a crew of 2 or 4 or whatever whose ship is being Used?

  • InitialBrick
    Rogue

    @residentapple12 I agree, I don't understand how if you grind out the game and get yourself gold you can't upgrade your ship so it's better in battle it makes sense so it's fair to everyone but it also doesn't I think if you're just starting out and those people in the session that have better equipment you should just stay away.

  • SpruceTexas689
    Founder

    @initialbrick said in Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system:

    @sprucetexas689 Also if you decide to Randomly join a crew of 2 or 4 or whatever whose ship is being Used?

    There was no "ship ownership" in the alpha - you were simply assigned "a ship". Since we know the final game will allow some limited visual customization I would guess that each player will be able to customize the look of their own ship and perhaps if you join somebody else's game you will be playing on the host's ship. Just guessing, but it will probably be something along those lines.

  • SpruceTexas689
    Founder

    @initialbrick said in Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system:

    @residentapple12 I agree, I don't understand how if you grind out the game and get yourself gold you can't upgrade your ship so it's better in battle it makes sense so it's fair to everyone but it also doesn't I think if you're just starting out and those people in the session that have better equipment you should just stay away.

    There seems to be a fundamental divide on this forum about what people want from this game. There is a large camp of people who want it to be super casual, with no strings attached, low difficulty, and no hurt feelings. At the moment, it seems that Rare is building a game with this audience in mind. On the other side are people who want a more competitive, challenging, progressive and uneven game where wins and losses matter more, where there are consequences for careless play and risk-taking, and where you don't re-spawn every 30 seconds with a new ship. This is why I haven't pre-ordered yet. I want to see something from Rare that will extend an olive branch to more serious players.

  • Cpt Erebos
    Founder

    @residentapple12 depends on how far you go, if you can fully upgrade your ship within 1-2 hours of playtime, then it might be fun, but MMORPG like upgrade systems, which force you to spend months or even years of playing to stay or become competitive, a********r. However there might be cosmetic upgrades available, which may require you to play 24/7

  • erikinthebakery
    Captain
    Founder

    @sprucetexas689 said in Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system:

    @initialbrick said in Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system:

    @sprucetexas689 Also if you decide to Randomly join a crew of 2 or 4 or whatever whose ship is being Used?

    There was no "ship ownership" in the alpha - you were simply assigned "a ship". Since we know the final game will allow some limited visual customization I would guess that each player will be able to customize the look of their own ship and perhaps if you join somebody else's game you will be playing on the host's ship. Just guessing, but it will probably be something along those lines.

    My understanding based on videos I've seen is that you will be able to buy/unlock cosmetic upgrades for various ship "parts" (sails, capstan, wheel, whatever) and somehow the crew votes on which ones to use so the ship is a mixture of what everyone has. For example, @InitialBrick has these really nice sails we all like, but we all are drooling over the wheel that @ResidentApple12 has and asking him where he got it. This is kind of how picking voyages (quests) work, per the videos. Everyone gets their voyages separately and literally brings them to the table, and then everyone votes on which one they want to do next.

  • KaptenBloood

    @cptncuttlefish Thanks for a good answer!
    I think Rare have been very unclear at communicate this. So for me it feels like a big draw back. Im gona try the game and see, but for me there needs to be more to it than that.
    A 4ppl fashion show wont do. Thay talk a lot about community and cosmetic, for me that sounds like the game's not done yet. "Lets make up some BS that sounds good so ppl bye the game anyway".
    And it's a game, it can't bee fare all the time. If you are alone and there comes a ship with 10ppl on it, get the hell out of there. It's a big world. Go back to base, crew up with more ppl or do another quest until the big ship is gone. Look for new ppl in the community, it should work, i mean "the community in SoT i so good" right? Tyr change clothes... =)
    Sure we can go with different ships, but then i guess u cant do the same quests?
    Hope they will make it right in the end, the game has so much potential.

  • SpruceTexas689
    Founder

    @erikinthebakery said in Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system:

    @sprucetexas689 said in Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system:

    @initialbrick said in Purchasable ships over current crew/ship system:

    @sprucetexas689 Also if you decide to Randomly join a crew of 2 or 4 or whatever whose ship is being Used?

    There was no "ship ownership" in the alpha - you were simply assigned "a ship". Since we know the final game will allow some limited visual customization I would guess that each player will be able to customize the look of their own ship and perhaps if you join somebody else's game you will be playing on the host's ship. Just guessing, but it will probably be something along those lines.

    My understanding based on videos I've seen is that you will be able to buy/unlock cosmetic upgrades for various ship "parts" (sails, capstan, wheel, whatever) and somehow the crew votes on which ones to use so the ship is a mixture of what everyone has.

    I really doubt that we'll be voting on which ship parts to use - that would bog down the matchmaking pace and the benefit is dubious - especially if all ship parts are available to all players. They might implement a vote on whose ship to use in its entirety, but I doubt that too because I have a feeling that most people who will be playing this game in a crew will play with their friends (i.e. people they know), and hence voting is unnecessary - there will be a skype/discord/ventrillo chat going on in the background and voting will be verbal.

  • Techno WarWitch
    Founder

    Personally we would like an option to turn off randoms from joining your crew, even if we had to sail a Galleon with just my wife and I until we can invite our friends on...
    Yes we would be at a big disadvantage trying to sail a big ship... But we can do it. And half the time randoms are messing around so we sail the ship our selves anyways until we get friends on who knows what to do and are more coopertive.

    For now we are stuck sailing Skiffs until friends get on..

    We miss the days of trying to sail a big ship with just the two of us.... For us the challenge is fun.

    Ship customisation should he coming soon as well.

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