My Solution To The Issue of Double Gunning

@zollin2400

While sword users have 1 gun, they have 5 shots; a double gunner has 2 guns, therefor 10 shots. In distance fights, if they have a pistol and an Eye of Reach, they have a huge advantage against someone who isn't double gunning. You could try to out maneuver them, make them miss some shots, but they still have 10 shots, while you have 5; each shot dealing at least half your health in damage. If the double gunner has any amount of skill, they can take each of your shots, and heal; while a single gunner would need to have either all meat, or all pineapples in order to take each shot.

You have infinite ammo if you are using a sword. And Sea of Thieves is a close quarter combat game (CQC) which means that weapons with close ranged abilities like the sword are very useful and can be easily used to great effect without needing much skill. Also, you need skill in order to use double gun. It's not like sword where as long as you aim in their general direction you will be able to do damage, you need good aim and good positioning in order to kill people. You made it very clear that as long as they have a lot of skill and have practiced for many hours that they will be hard to beat, so why should they be punished for being good at the game?

Now, if they're on your ship, on a brigantine or sloop, and they have a Blunderbuss and Eye of Reach; they can kill you instantly if you try to get close, they try to get their distance to get a sniper shot on you from the other side of the ship, and if they land their shot, they instantly run towards you with their blunderbuss in hand. Situations like these, are making it unfair for all the weapon combinations that aren't double gunning.

True, going Sniper/Blunder is very powerful as you are a huge threat at long range and short range. But first off, how are they on your ship in the first place? They are useless if they aren't on your ship because they can't be running around shooting people. Secondly, with the introduction of no wallbanging, you can hide behind things and go below deck in order to avoid shots. You also have blunderbombs at your disposal, and normally you would have Sword/Sniper, Sword/Pistol, or Sword/Blunder, meaning that you have advantages. You can take the sniper duel and shoot them when they shoot you, meaning that you are both low. And when they come to rush you with the blunder, you can use blunderbombs / reload your pistol / bait their blundershot by going behind a pole, then swording them to death because they have no weapon that's reloaded and they had to get close to shoot you with the blunder.

You have options when fighting people, just because you aren't using them doesn't mean that it's OP. Going against a doublegunner is WAY harder than going against a sword user, because you can't use distance as a counter like you can with sword, but there are still counters that you can use. Like blunderbombing, Sniping, and using cover since there's no more wallbanging.

My solution: Instead of there being 5 shots per gun, there would be 5 shots per pirate. Instead of firing 10 shots with 2 guns, you would only have 5 shots, for the 2 guns to share. If you fire your first gun, and switch to your second, you will have the same ammo count. [To further explain, if you fire all your shots on your 1st weapon, and not fire your 2nd weapon at all, you will be completely out of ammo for both guns] Single gunners and double gunners would have equal ammo. Some may say that this defeats the purpose of double gunning; but the point of double gunning is having 2 guns, not having more ammo; having more ammo was just a bonus perk. This change would allow more skill and strategy to be implemented into the game. Players would have to decide more carefully what gun they want to use in each situation. If this change was implemented into Sea of Thieves, it would make the game more balanced between single gunners and double gunners.

Sword as infinite ammo, and if you are using Sniper/Pistol, you can only kill a maximum of 2 people with your weapons because you need to reload, whereas a sword user can kill all 4 people without needing to reload. Like I said above, there are counters to dodging a doublegunner, just like there are counters to dodging a sword user. Especially since they've gotten rid of wallbanging, it is so much easier to dodge a doublegunner and prevent them from easily killing you.

Your reasoning for allowing only 5 bullets instead of 10 is because it requires more strategy and makes doublegun more of a risk, but they already have a huge risk because they are in deep danger if they get into a CQC with someone. Just because people aren't using the tools given to them doesn't mean that they need more tools to use, just use the tools given to you in the first place.

Another solution, that would both further balance double gunning, and overall improve the status of pvp in the game, would be to nerf the Blunderbuss. I believe a hand held gun that can instant kill does feel right in this type of game. But I do believe in its purpose to be a heavy hitting weapon. I think that it should be nerfed from dealing 100 damage to 95. It wont be an instant kill, but it would allow the victim of the blunderbuss a chance to retreat and heal. This would be a perfect time for double gunners to get that shot on them as their victim retreats; or a sword user to finish them off with a sword slash, or chase them down. This would allow more skill in the game, while also giving people more of a chance instead of allowing blunderbuss users to get cheap kills. And if someone were to want a guaranteed kill with their shot, they could put in the additional work of setting their enemy on fire; leaving their enemy little to no chance to survive.

Sure, I don't mind if they removed the 1 shot feature that the blunderbuss has. I don't care what they do either way.

@galactic-geek

If the blunderbuss is not a 1-shot weapon at close-range, then it automatically becomes the worst weapon in the game, because that 1st shot will have knockback making your next shot to kill all but impossible.

If they removed the 1 shot capability it would still be useful, just not in the same way. You could easily say that pistol is completely useless because you can outheal with just a banana, making your next shot all but impossible, and make you use 2 shots to kill someone. (If they ate a coconut or something better, it would require 3+ shots) If they made the blunderbuss do 95 damage instead of 100, it could still be used effectively. Most of the time when going Sniper/Blunder you are going to use the sniper shot first and follow it up with the blunder meaning that the -5 damage is irrelevant. And the Blunderbuss is still useful for knocking sword users back, there are plenty of times that I didn't kill a sword user that was right next to me, but because of the knockback I was still able to get them away so that I could pull out my sniper and shoot them, or reload my blunder and finish them off.

It gives your opponent free breathing room even on a successful hit, which is simply bad game design - you should be rewarded for a successful offense, not punished for it.

You could make that same argument with the sword. I slash someone 3 times and it knocks them back, allowing them the distance they need to escape by jumping into the water, healing, blunderbombing, or just running away. I shouldn't be punished because I got them into a sword combo just for them to be knocked away and now I'm useless. First of all, you're not useless with sword because you can swap to pistol / sniper and get the kill, and with the blunderbuss you can still swap to a sniper / pistol and get the kill just like the sword.

It seems like, "bad game design," that there is a weapon that can one shot everyone in the game, but with every other weapon you would need to hit them again, or swap to something else to finish them off. If your argument is, "It's bad game design," It seems even worse to have a weapon that can 1 shot people while every other weapon in the game can't do that.

Again, I personally don't care if they nerf the blunder or keep it the way it is. Mainly because I like using the blunder to 1 shot people when they try to board my boat, but if they did change it I can see why. If anything making the blunderbuss do 95 damage would be needed in order to make it balanced, but I don't really care as I use blunderbuss because it does 100 damage. If they change it, cool, nothing really changes except for the fact that I have to wait 1 second longer before shooting someone who boards me, because I need to knock them back into the water rather than try and kill them with 1 shot.

As for the blunderbuss, anything less than a 1-shot kill at point-blank range nerfs it into the ground making it practically useless, both for it's intended role and compared to every other weapon.

Another problem is that you can still 1 shot people even if you aren't in point blank range. I've 1 shot people when I was a couple feet away and they couldn't hit me with their sword, and I still killed them in 1 shot. I think they should increase the spread to prevent this from happening, so that it still does the same damage, but you just need to get closer for all the pellets to hit.

@zollin2400 sagte in My Solution To The Issue of Double Gunning:

Double gunning used to be a huge issue when it had no cool down between firing while switching guns. But double gunning is still an issue in Sea of Thieves, even after the added cool down for firing while switching weapons. While sword users have 1 gun, they have 5 shots; a double gunner has 2 guns, therefor 10 shots. In distance fights, if they have a pistol and an Eye of Reach, they have a huge advantage against someone who isn't double gunning. You could try to out maneuver them, make them miss some shots, but they still have 10 shots, while you have 5; each shot dealing at least half your health in damage. If the double gunner has any amount of skill, they can take each of your shots, and heal; while a single gunner would need to have either all meat, or all pineapples in order to take each shot. Now, if they're on your ship, on a brigantine or sloop, and they have a Blunderbuss and Eye of Reach; they can kill you instantly if you try to get close, they try to get their distance to get a sniper shot on you from the other side of the ship, and if they land their shot, they instantly run towards you with their blunderbuss in hand. Situations like these, are making it unfair for all the weapon combinations that aren't double gunning. Double gunners with any skill, are forcing people equal to their skill to be double gunners in order to take them on. This current state of double gunning is unfair to those who don't double gun.

Since when is DG still a problem, as far as I know almost all players use a sword nowadays except the ones that are a huge fan of shooters and therefore like to DG or because they just don't like the sword.
Also DG has a huge dps dropoff when they are reloding, they are basically a glass-cannon high dmg but if they miss they are super vulnerable. Risk reward is done right here.

Sword right now is easily as good as DG, probabaly even better in most situations.

• My solution: Instead of there being 5 shots per gun, there would be 5 shots per pirate. Instead of firing 10 shots with 2 guns, you would only have 5 shots, for the 2 guns to share. If you fire your first gun, and switch to your second, you will have the same ammo count. [To further explain, if you fire all your shots on your 1st weapon, and not fire your 2nd weapon at all, you will be completely out of ammo for both guns] Single gunners and double gunners would have equal ammo. Some may say that this defeats the purpose of double gunning; but the point of double gunning is having 2 guns, not having more ammo; having more ammo was just a bonus perk. This change would allow more skill and strategy to be implemented into the game. Players would have to decide more carefully what gun they want to use in each situation. If this change was implemented into Sea of Thieves, it would make the game more balanced between single gunners and double gunners.

Why shouldn't DG have 5 more shots? If they are out of ammo then they are completely defenseless, while a person with a sword has basically unlimited ammo for their sword.

Nobody in their right mind would then use DG anymore because you don't alawys hit your shots and you also get a lot of hitreg. You then can call yourself lucky if you even get the at max 2 kill with your 5 bullets. While in the meantime the sword can kill 4 players wihtout having to worry about ammo.

• Another solution, that would both further balance double gunning, and overall improve the status of pvp in the game, would be to nerf the Blunderbuss. I believe a hand held gun that can instant kill does feel right in this type of game. But I do believe in its purpose to be a heavy hitting weapon. I think that it should be nerfed from dealing 100 damage to 95. It wont be an instant kill, but it would allow the victim of the blunderbuss a chance to retreat and heal. This would be a perfect time for double gunners to get that shot on them as their victim retreats; or a sword user to finish them off with a sword slash, or chase them down. This would allow more skill in the game, while also giving people more of a chance instead of allowing blunderbuss users to get cheap kills. And if someone were to want a guaranteed kill with their shot, they could put in the additional work of setting their enemy on fire; leaving their enemy little to no chance to survive.

The Blunderbuss's sole purpose is to one-shot people. It is a hard counter for sword. You have one shot, if you can make it count then you kill the sword player if you miss you are dead. Risk reward my man.

• People have complained about their being a very small skill gap to sea of thieves, but I truly believe that these changes would increase the skill gap, and further balance the game.

No it would buff the sword even more and basically kill of all the DG'ers that are left in the game.

@insaiity If DGers have any skill (which most do), they don't just go willy-nilly on their shots, they shoot you, and before you have a chance to kill or get away, they shoot again. Boom, you're dead. you don't ever get a chance to kill someone while they're reloading. plus, if they're reloading a blunderbuss while you're slashing them, you cant kill them in time before they're done reloading. You can get 2, maybe 3 slashes before they one shot you. Also DG should be a huge risk. The game should support swords more than DG its how the game was built. But if the enemy DG has any skill whatsoever, they will kill anyone with a sword. They become unstoppable unless they make a mistake. While if someone uses a sword with no mistake, they can't beat a double gunner unless the DG makes a mistake. And the blunderbuss takes almost no skill to use. It's purpose is a heavy up close hitter, it shouldn't instant kill in a game like this. A DG and a single gunner would have the same amount of ammo, making their fights more fair. Being a double gunner is supposed to be about a huge risk, but their isn't any risk if they have a blunderbuss.

Sword is already in right hands OP weapon. Sword users will always complain about double gunners and double gunners will always complain about swords.

Completely disagree with this post.

I would put double guns as it was before because now sometimes there is a bug u can not shoot your second gun after firing the first one.

@kaijoi I completely disagree about the swords taking less skil than double gunning. Double gunning requires aiming and shooting. Even less skill if they have a blunderbuss. A sword requires you to get around a sword that is blocking you, get close without dying to guns, and maneuver around blunderbuss without being one shot. That's not including timing with lunges, timing your blocks, sword jumping out of situations, and being fast. They're unbeatable if they have a decent amount of skill, unless they're fighting another double gunner. No weapon combo should be unbeatable like that. It would require a double gunner to make either multiple mistakes, or not running away for them to be killed. If there is a boarder, and your ship is being shot at, it's pretty easy for an enemy to board. The blunderbuss is so inconsistent that it is near impossible to bait their shots. The blunderbuss can reload quick enough to one shot you before you can kill them. If they somehow missed their blunderbuss shot, and their other weapon isn't loaded (which is rare in that scenario) then you can kill them. But I do agree that blunderbombs are a great counter to double gunners.Since double gunning is limited ammo, use blunderbombs if you want more kills. Our use an ammo crate. This is a CQC, this game should encourage usinf a sword, it's not like not doublegunning is keeping you from shooting. Double gunning should be made more fair, and encourage people to use the sword, allow better fights instead of just shooting. bring back the good fighting days from the start of the game.

@galactic-geek The blunderbuss is extremely easy to land you're shot. Making it extremely difficult to get close to a double gunner and stay long enough for them to die. Also they're constantly running away. Fighting is always way more engaging when it involves sword. A blunderbuss killing you in 1 shot, in a game like this is a cheap kill. It's purpose is to be a heavy hitter, knocking you back so you can get the better hand on them. Fighting in this game is supposed to give everyone a chance. Double gunning and blunderbusses don't do that.

@galactic-geek
ME: If they removed the 1 shot capability it would still be useful, just not in the same way.

YOU:

Useful doesn't necessarily mean it can still kill.

So we agree. It doesn't need to be able to kill in order to be useful.

ME: You could easily say that pistol is completely useless because you can outheal with just a banana, making your next shot all but impossible,

YOU:

That's why the flintlock is the fastest to reload, aim, and shoot.

You can still heal with a banana in most situations, if they reload and do an animation cancel, then immediately shoot with scoping in then you won't be able to eat. But most people aren't using every advantage to 2tap with a pistol, so it rarely happens that you are able to get 2 hits with the pistol against someone as you have the risk of missing if you shoot too fast, and they can go behind cover while healing before you reload.

ME: If they made the blunderbuss do 95 damage instead of 100, it could still be used effectively.

ME: Most of the time when going Sniper/Blunder you are going to use the sniper shot first and follow it up with the blunder meaning that the -5 damage is irrelevant.

YOU:

Not if it's your opening weapon.

It's never irrelevant - you're also forcing a specific method of playstyle here unnecessarily.

I'm using a very common example of how you use Sniper/Blunder. Most people will start off with the sniper shot first, then use the blunderbuss after. In that specific scenario the -5 damage doesn't matter which is the point I'm trying to make. You're taking it as I'm saying something like, "If you are trying to 1 shot someone then the -5 damage won't matter." Which I'm not saying. Obviously if they reduce the damage from 100 down to 95 then you can't 1 shot people, I'm not arguing that.

ME: And the Blunderbuss is still useful for knocking sword users back, there are plenty of times that I didn't kill a sword user that was right next to me, but because of the knockback I was still able to get them away so that I could pull out my sniper and shoot them, or reload my blunder and finish them off.

YOU:

They weren't smart sword users then, because if they were they'd be bounding right back into you.

When I use the blunderbuss I make a plan in case it doesn't 1 shot them, so that in case they don't die instantly I am still safe. Once I shoot them with the blunder the knockback gives me enough distance to start running away while healing, not only that but most of the time I shoot them before their 3rd slice, so they are also stunned for a split second allowing me to gain even more distance. I am able to eat up and get full health, then reload my sniper and kill them because they've been chasing me instead of eating food.

So like I said, blunderbuss would still be useful for it's knockback powers and not for it's 1 shot capabilities.

ME: You could make that same argument with the sword. I slash someone 3 times and it knocks them back, allowing them the distance they need to escape by jumping into the water, healing, blunderbombing, or just running away.

YOU:

It bounces both pirates back - but did you know that you could prevent that from happening? There's actually 2 ways to do it. One is to simply hold forward during the knockback itself, which reduces its effectiveness and keeps you close to the enemy (the reverse is also true if you want more space); the 2nd method is simply not to combo - no combo, no knockback. If I'm using sword, I'm going to go for a 2-hit combo so that the knockback doesn't occur. Furthermore, you'll likely be stunned allowing for an easy follow-up 2-hit combo to kill you.

When you are swording someone and get the 3 hit combo, you don't get knocked back. They do, but not you. And in this example that I've given, I'm arguing the point that if they use 3 slashes it will give the other player room to run away and heal. I'd say at least 95% of people don't use the 2 slash, bunny hop, 2 slash strategy in killing someone. And I wasn't arguing that there were different ways to combat the knockback, I was saying that because most people use the sword in a 3 hit combo way, that you can easily run away and get out of it's range. So I'm not arguing the fact that there are different ways to get around the knockback, I was saying that in this specific situation (that happens 95% of the time) They can run away if though there is knockback.

You said: It gives your opponent free breathing room even on a successful hit, which is simply bad game design - you should be rewarded for a successful offense, not punished for it.

So I was responding by saying that the argument is not a good one because you can easily use that same argument about knockback being a bad thing since the sword has knockback. And you flipped it around and was acting like I said, "The knockback is unpreventable," Which I wasn't, I was using your example that you gave and used the logic on something else to show you that the logic you used in this argument was wrong.

ME: First of all, you're not useless with sword because you can swap to pistol / sniper and get the kill,

...with plenty of time for them to run away, find cover, etc. before you get the shot off.

and with the blunderbuss you can still swap to a sniper / pistol and get the kill just like the sword.

YOU:

The trick is in cancelling the moment you fire the 1st shot or get enough hits in with the sword.

What is your argument? Can you rephrase it so that I can understand?

ME: It seems like, "bad game design," that there is a weapon that can one shot everyone in the game, but with every other weapon you would need to hit them again, or swap to something else to finish them off.

YOU:

Except it's incredibly situational and perfectly suited to its role. It's also easy to avoid if you're paying attention, with up to 28 different ways to not get 1-shot.

I was again using your logic to show you that it is faulty. You were saying that it's bad game design to allow a weapon which deals knockback to not be a 1 shot kill, and I was saying that the sword does just that, knockback without a kill. I wasn't saying that it wasn't situational or that it isn't easy to avoid, I was using your logic to help in my argument to show you that it's not completely valid.

ME: If your argument is, "It's bad game design," It seems even worse to have a weapon that can 1 shot people while every other weapon in the game can't do that.

YOU:

Again, very situational. Besides, you're discounting the very real possibility of multiple pirates. After that 1-shot, you're still potentially facing up to 3 more pirates. Furthermore, any surprise you had is officially blown.

Like I said, "If they removed the 1 shot capability it would still be useful, just not in the same way."

And like you said: Useful doesn't necessarily mean it can still kill.

Obviously if they removed the 1 shot capability then you couldn't 1 shot someone with it, and you would have to use 2 shots in order to kill someone. You can still use your element of surprise, sniper them first and then use the blunder and finish them off. If you truly have the element of surprise then an extra second of delay wouldn't be a problem to kill someone. The only difference between a 1 shot and now, is that you would have to reload both weapons before fighting again. But that already happens with Sniper/Pistol and people use that to a great extent.

You wouldn't be able to keep reloading your blunder and 1 shotting people anymore, and you would have to play differently. It still does a lot of damage at 95, and it would still be very useful at 2 shotting people with both of your weapons, plus the knockback it gives.

ME: If they change it, cool, nothing really changes except for the fact that I have to wait 1 second longer before shooting someone who boards me, because I need to knock them back into the water rather than try and kill them with 1 shot.

YOU:

If it doesn't kil them and only knocks them into the water, that's potentially dangerous for you because they can heal or try the ladder again.

This already happens sometimes when I will supposedly 1 shot someone but because of hitreg they don't die and go flying off of the ship. I just swap to my second weapon to finish them off. I'm saying that the blunderbuss is pretty OP because you can 1 shot someone off of the ladder, but no other weapon can be used that greatly. Even if you use sword, as long as you time your board right you can tank the 3 hits and be on their boat running around healing. So they would have to pull out their Sniper/Pistol in order to finish you off, making it a 2 hit kill.

ME: Another problem is that you can still 1 shot people even if you aren't in point blank range. I've 1 shot people when I was a couple feet away and they couldn't hit me with their sword, and I still killed them in 1 shot.

ME: I think they should increase the spread to prevent this from happening, so that it still does the same damage, but you just need to get closer for all the pellets to hit.

YOU:

This is lag. The blunderbuss can't kill in 1-shot unless it's inside sword-hit range.

Very possible that it is lag, but even if I'm inside the sword hit range I don't have to be able to lick their neck to 1 shot kill them, I can be a pretty good distance away and still 1 shot them.

@zollin2400 sagte in My Solution To The Issue of Double Gunning:

@insaiity If DGers have any skill (which most do), they don't just go willy-nilly on their shots, they shoot you, and before you have a chance to kill or get away, they shoot again. Boom, you're dead.

Then learn how to starfe and dodge. Even if you have great aim it is still difficult to hit someone that has mastered the starafe in this game, because animations are wonky when you do it right.
Also since wallbaning has been removed you can take cover everywhere on the boat, if you just run straigh at a DG'er of course you are going to struggle.

And of course they don't go willy nilly on their shots since they only have 10 in total and only 2 every ~6seconds. That's it, if you can't make something happen in a 6 second window then I don't know what to tell you except work on your swordskills.

you don't ever get a chance to kill someone while they're reloading.

Sure you do. I do it all the time. It's just that you don't.

plus, if they're reloading a blunderbuss while you're slashing them, you cant kill them in time before they're done reloading. You can get 2, maybe 3 slashes before they one shot you.

Dodge around them so they have a hard time tracking you or you know what? USE YOUR OTHER WEAPON, YOU HAVE TWO!

Also DG should be a huge risk. The game should support swords more than DG its how the game was built.

What? WHy? Where? As far as I know the majority of weapons in this game are guns and not swords. So more combinations can be made with guns than with sword. So basically the guns are supported more.

But if the enemy DG has any skill whatsoever, they will kill anyone with a sword.

They kill anyone that is worse than them. It should be that way.

They become unstoppable unless they make a mistake. While if someone uses a sword with no mistake, they can't beat a double gunner unless the DG makes a mistake.

Everyone makes mistakes? No DG'er will hit every shot. That's never going to happen. Especially against ther good players that know how to move, strafe and dodge.

In the end it comes down to who has more skill or who has gotten lucky.

And the blunderbuss takes almost no skill to use. It's purpose is a heavy up close hitter, it shouldn't instant kill in a game like this.

What do you mean with "a game like this"?

A DG and a single gunner would have the same amount of ammo, making their fights more fair.

Except the other one also has a sword? How do you not see that this will be OP as hell? A DG'er will be reduced to only being abel to kill 2 players if he hits all his shots. While in the meantime a Sword player is without limitations.

Being a double gunner is supposed to be about a huge risk, but their isn't any risk if they have a blunderbuss.

Of course there is???

• They have less range against people that use pistol sniper.
• If they rely on blunderbuss and miss even only 1 pellet, they are most likey dead.
• They have limited ammo and therefore need to always have a ammobox close by to fight for longer periods of time.
• They have a huge dps dropoff if they miss even only 1 of their shots
• In CQC a DG is always at a disadvantage, if his first 2 shots didn't kill the enemy, then he will most likely die if the enemy is any good.

@zollin2400 sagte in My Solution To The Issue of Double Gunning:

@kaijoi I completely disagree about the swords taking less skil than double gunning. Double gunning requires aiming and shooting. Even less skill if they have a blunderbuss.

But it is true tho. DG requires you to keep a distance at all times on a very narrow and limited area, also known as a ship. They have to quickly locate you, aim and shoot you, all while you are trying your hardest to not let them do that to you. You also have to take your DPS downtime into consideration.

If you really think it is easy to aim show me how you try to hit 20 consecutive shots on a person that is trying their hardest to not let you do that. All while being shot at, swung at, and while the boat is rocking on the sea.

@zollin2400

I completely disagree about the swords taking less skil than double gunning. Double gunning requires aiming and shooting. Even less skill if they have a blunderbuss. A sword requires you to get around a sword that is blocking you, get close without dying to guns, and maneuver around blunderbuss without being one shot. That's not including timing with lunges, timing your blocks, sword jumping out of situations, and being fast.

I didn't say that you didn't need skill in order to be a good sword user. I said that it could be used to a great effect without needing much skill, in comparison to double gun's skill criteria. Yes you need to be good at specific things unlike doublegun, sword lunging, bunny hops, jumping over the sword and slashing at the correct time in order to hit someone when they are blocking. And it is very difficult to use sword against a good blunderbuss user, that's why I wouldn't mind if they changed the blunderbuss to do 95 damage instead of 100.

I was specifically talking about the fact that when you use a sword and are close to a doublegun user, you don't need any aim train skill like using guns do. With doublegun you can have perfect positioning but if you can't hit a shot then you're useless. With sword you just need to have good positioning, and then you can just slash your heart's content out without needing any skill in terms of aim.

They're unbeatable if they have a decent amount of skill, unless they're fighting another double gunner. No weapon combo should be unbeatable like that.

Here's what I disagree with, you're saying that because someone is very good, has practiced many hours, and has trained to be as good as they are, that they should be punished for being this good. Sea of Thieves is a SvS game (Ship vs Ship) If this game was strictly PvP and duels then I would agree with you as Sword/Blunder would be useless. But because this game revolves around sinking other player's ships in order to get the loot I don't agree with the fact that because you're good you should be punished.

If someone was very good at using chainshots and hit nearly every single one, does that mean that chainshots need to be nerfed because the player is so godly? No, they are very good at doing what they do and are very good at shooting chainshots, so why would they be punished just because they've spent many hours getting good at what they do? Because there are so many counters to someone using doublegun, ladder guarding, blunderbombs, and blunderbuss 1 shots, it doesn't seem fair to give you MORE tools since you already have so many that the doublegunner can't do much to defend themselves.

(That being said, I wouldn't mind if the brig and galleons sails could be raised up faster)

If there is a boarder, and your ship is being shot at, it's pretty easy for an enemy to board.

Agreed, but that's the point of shooting someone's boat. It is IMPOSSIBLE to board someone's ship when they're ladder guarding unless they make multiple mistakes or they miss their shots. So you use other tools to counter them, SvS. Cannoning them forces people to go down below and repair, as well as blocking their hearing as to allow you to board them, you have tools to get past a good ladder guard. Same with doublegun, you have plenty of tools to prevent them from getting on your ship, and even once they're on your ship you have plenty of tools to use.

The blunderbuss is so inconsistent that it is near impossible to bait their shots. The blunderbuss can reload quick enough to one shot you before you can kill them. If they somehow missed their blunderbuss shot, and their other weapon isn't loaded (which is rare in that scenario) then you can kill them.

That's why I think that it would be good for the blunderbuss to get a nerf from 100 damage down to 95, so that it's knockback is it's main power not the 1 shot. But even if they don't nerf it, you still have options to use in order to prevent from being blundered. Don't use sword when they have a blunderbuss out and use your Sniper or Pistol.

This is a CQC, this game should encourage usinf a sword, it's not like not doublegunning is keeping you from shooting. Double gunning should be made more fair, and encourage people to use the sword, allow better fights instead of just shooting.

There is plenty of upsides to using a sword. Since it's a CQC game it is very easy to use sword and blunderbuss to great effects without needing too much skill in the aim department. Doublegunning has many disadvantages because this is a CQC game, I think it's pretty balanced how it is now for doublegun. Since you are very powerful, but 1 slip up in your positioning and you are as good as dead.

bring back the good fighting days from the start of the game.

The good ol days of fighting was shooting 2 bullets in the same frame, and dashing around with the sword like a beyblade hitting the ground so that you don't get stunlocked when you land. But I get what you're saying.

@nahtheguy
It's not a bug, it's an intentional 1 second delay to prevent the exploitation of sprint canceling so that you shoot faster.

@zollin2400 a double gunner only gets 10 attacks but a sword user can attack multiple targets infinitely with a higher Dps then a pistol how is that fair? 🤣

@xzodeak jokes aside all weapons have advantages and disadvantages imo

Sloop/ brig: blunder + sword works best since your always in close proximity to eachother and u can easily knock players off. (Switch to double gun at the end to avoid being screwed by backspawns)

Galleon: basically all weapons work, personally run sniper + blunder

Islands: Islands have a ton of room to avoid swordplay. sniper + pistol works best (don't run out of ammo)

Forts: basically screwed if u run double gun into skellys nice to have something to deal with kegs too sword+sniper or pistol

Your examples really confused me. You said that if the blunder didn’t one shot the enemy could run and eat or the attacker can shoot him again or hit him with a sword but is that not already what happens? You also said that any double gunner wins a ranged fight most of the time but that is the point even though they are in greater risk at close range but see I could say “I think that blunder sword needs a nerf because it is to over powered in close range” which again is the point of the load out that player chose. The reason the blunder and sniper combo is so popular is because you get the best of both close and long range even though the risks of needing ammo and getting sword spammed is high.

@nahtheguy That would be the opposite of intelligent. Also, lemme guess, you double gun?

@bugaboo-bill Rare needs to return to the pirate life by nerfing doublegunning more. I don't want this to game to be just another shooter.

@l-snapper-l I agree with you on the long range fights being the point of sniper and pistol, but its when it comes to ship fights and on land fights, when it becomes so incredibly unfair. I'm just so tired of a bunch of CoD players only doing double gunning. I miss the pirate feel of fights, and fighting people with swords. But now, too many people are using this weapon combo and are near impossible to beat. The only people (that i've noticed) that defend double gunners, are other double gunners, or people who don't do much pvp, so they never experience this problem.

@xzodeak You don't realize that the damage is infinite, but slow. You can't kill someone with a sword before they land their second shot on you. Unless you happened to hit them before they started shooting, which is quite rare, since they always run away to get a shot on you. Or they just get a cheap blunderbuss instant kill.

@dformdduckx0 The only reason the sword was buffed was to deal with double gunners. The hit reg doesn't change the point and unfairness of double gunning. But since your mind can't be changed, this will be all I say.

@kaijoi Alright first of all, people only say sword doesn't take skill up close, is because they don't have anything to block. All the skill was used to get to the double gunner, and keep up on them. Also this game isn't like apex, or CoD, the bullets in this game have a larger hitbox, allowing it to be much easier to land your shots. So Double gunners with much less experience and skill has a very similar kill rate to the top performing double gunners. The skill gap is quite low for double gunning.

• I have spent many hours on this game, learning to be the best PvPer I can be, but I am punished by dealing with double gunners. Do you think it's fair for sword users to be punished just for not double gunning? Double gunning is the Meta for the game for right now, only for the fact that its unfair. For a while, doublegunning was way worse, and no sword users had a chance. But the sword was buffed to stand more of a chance. But the double gunning needs just a little more nerfing. I know that it is the point of shooting your enemy's ship in order for your team to board, you were asking in a weird way.
• "You have plenty of tools to use." Double gunning is the only weapon combo that requires you to have more tools than your weapons. Doesn't that seem off to you? I am glad that we agree on the blunderbuss though. Also before I continue reading your response, and replying, I legitimately think you're a cool guy, thanks for not being toxic.
• "without needing too much skill in the aim department." I truly believe that double gunning wasn't meant to outshine the sword in this game, but the people use it as an exploit. I truly believe that the majority are meant to use the sword in this game. Sure some people would choose double gunning instead of swords, and that would be for the different playstyle. But the fact of the matter is, people use double gunning because it is easier to get kills that way. Those who don't double gun have a much lower chance, and double gunners know it. another reason people double gun, is because they're only used to shooter games, so they refuse to actually learn how to go in depth in engaging sword battles. They give up, and go to what they're used to, and learn that it kills way quicker. You bunny hop, and just keep shooting, without having to fully engage in the battle. This game isn't meant to be so dependent on aiming skills. It isn't CoD, or Siege, it's Sea of Thieves; a Pirate game. Some people ask, "Then why is it an option?" Well, the game devs want there to be diversity in the weapons combos that people use. I respect that, but I don't want one combo to be unfair towards the other half of gun combos. I want them to be equal in skill.
• Haha, your comment on my "good fighting days" is pretty accurate. But what I loved about this game, was that the fighting was unique, less guns, swords, and cannons. That was the pirate game I've been wanting, but I feel that the current state of doublegunning is straying away from what sea of thieves was supposed to be. almost every professional in this game uses double gunning. Because they know it's the easiest way to get kills. Many tutorials for sea of thieves online have stated so. Sure the game buffed swords, but the balance isn't quite there yet.

@insaiity Being a sword user against a double gunner feels like someone is shooting sharks out of a cannon at you, each one dealing huge damage, as you have to heal so they don't use their second gun to quickly kill you from a distance. Having to deal with doublegunners running away almost forces you to use double gunning. Fighting a double gunner with one gun almost never works. And getting close is almost impossible if they just keep shooting you every time you run towards them.

If someone is using Sniper/Blunder (the most common boarding combo for DG) if they miss with both guns that is 7-8 seconds of time to do something. That is HUGE in ship combat. If it's on an island and you aren't at least running Sniper OR Flintlock, I hate to say it but that is your fault. Every time I see someone with sword/blunder combo off a ship, I instantly feel sorry for them because they do not understand the basics of fighting other players in this game.

Using two guns is actually extremely challenging right now in boarding due to how potent the sword has become with no real need to aim it for the most part yet. The hit reg and lag glitches associated with it makes it worse. I have actually switched from sniper/blunder (running it for over a year) back to sniper/sword because of what has been going on. Been cutting up gun users in CQC on ships like it's nothing. Only even pull out the sniper on Galleons and people who think jumping in the water is a good idea.

@insaiity You ignore almost every point I have, but lets try this again. There is much more to the killing in 6 seconds, if the double gunner is shooting you while you get close, and are close. Also all double gunners bunny hop and run away everytime they reload, therefore that 6 seconds becomes 2. You can't kill fast enough with a sword. You are referring to when a double gunner is cornered or very inexperienced, when you say that you kill them while they reload. It is extremely difficult to out gun a double gunner, they have twice the fire power, and you have the same amount of food. If double gunners had the same amount of ammo as single gunners it would make gunning more fair. "guns are supported more" That has got to be the weakest claim you've made so far. This is a pirate game where you use your sword, and you would have multiple options for you secondary. The reason the guns were secondaries, was because their had limited ammo. Also it's a pirate game. People use guns to get quick kills where sword users can't defend themselves. Sword users are almost forced to switch to their gun, but uf the sword user and the double gunner are equal in skill, then the sword user is out gunned with is single gun, further forcing them to double gun. If a sword user has equal skill to the double gunner, the double gunner will win unless they mess up. That is the base definition of unfair. This isn't some team deathmatch game mode where you respawn instantly, and there's nothing waiting for you while you're dead; that's why blunderbusses are unfair as an instant kill. Double gunning is meant to be limiting. People are supposed to play as a different playstyle. The sword is meant to outrule double gunning. It's a pirate game where the sword is the main weapon. Even the tutorial shows that the sword is the main weapon. Also if you are far away, use your long range weapon, you're a double gunner so you aren't limited to close range. Also if you bunny hop and reload/heal, you wont die while reloading, because that's what double gunners do. Not once did you refer to any situations that actually occur often, only random scenarios that benefit your argument.